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All Daemons have true names right? Well I'm alittle confused as to how Daemon Princes get them with them being origionally mortal. For example, say you have a Chaos space marine called Jeremy. Jeremy burns a hundred worlds and slaughtered billions in the name of Khorn. For this Khorn makes Jeremy a Daemon prince. Now is Jeremy the daemon princes true name, does he just get assigned a new one by his patron god, does he just pick a new true name, do mortals have them already or is the process to complicated for a mere mortal like myself to comprehend?

Every being has a True Name. It's just that for the most part, only insanely powerful psykers can do anything with your true name, because the physical body acts as a kind of squishy, biological barrier between your soul (which is controllable via truenaming) and the thing trying to do things to you.

Daemons are all soul. That's all there is to them - so any magic/psionics that affects them can be enhanced with their true name.

So to answer your question, he would still be called Jeremy but that wouldn't be his true name, it wasn't to begin with.

True Names are something whispered in the language of the Warp. Everyone has one, but only the tiniest of fractions of people in Reality will ever hear one, let alone hear their own.

Okay, that clears things up abit. But how exactly would Jeremy, or any Daemon, learn their true name? Do they know it apon becoming a Daemon or do they have to wait until somebody uses it against them?

Their Patron might tell them, they might divine it through sorcerous means, they might just instinctively learn it when they ascend to Princedom... there's a bunch of ways that knowledge could be learned.

Read the first isenhorn trilogy there's a group that learns some of the language of the warp. It wouldn't surprise me of demon true names were in the language referred to in one of those books. The language made you incredibly powerful. Assuming you could survive speaking the words.

 disdamn wrote:
Read the first isenhorn trilogy there's a group that learns some of the language of the warp. It wouldn't surprise me of demon true names were in the language referred to in one of those books. The language made you incredibly powerful. Assuming you could survive speaking the words.

The Enuncia guys were in Ravenor, I don't remember anyone using it in Eisenhorn...

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 disdamn wrote:
Read the first isenhorn trilogy there's a group that learns some of the language of the warp. It wouldn't surprise me of demon true names were in the language referred to in one of those books. The language made you incredibly powerful. Assuming you could survive speaking the words.

The Enuncia guys were in Ravenor, I don't remember anyone using it in Eisenhorn...

That's the one, Ravenor, Enuncia. Thanks

According to the Black Crusade RPG, being told your true name is part of ascension. One chaos reward you can roll before that is being told part of it - which makes you more awesome and able to manipulate fate as you start to manifest slight daemonic presence (kind of akin to Aura Of Dark Glory in 40k, I guess).

I'm not sure about mortals having a special true name when they become a Daemon Prince. Reading 'Wrath of Iron', the Iron Hands purge a hive in which a Daemon Prince is coming across via a Warp Portal. Right at the conclusion a Librarian goes up against the Daemon Prince which is trying to break into the hive. The point is, although the Librarian was party to secret lore and knew many of the names of many of the traitors from the Legions, but he didn't know the name of this Prince, so he knew he couldn't fully destroy it by saying it's name. The Daemon then slays the Librarian, but taunts it by announcing that its name was in fact Julius Kaesoran. The Librarian then casts his mind into the warp-portal to destroy it. The Daemon Prince is left stranded on the wrong side and comes up against the Clan Commander, who doesn't recognise the name and can't ask the now-dead Librarian and is forced to slay the Prince by conventional means.

The implication of this is, because Daemon Prince taunted the Librarian as he was dying, and because the Commander failed to learn or recognise the name we can assume that Julius Kaesoran is it's true name rather than any other unspoken name. At least that's what I took from it - I could be wrong.

 Warpig1815 wrote:
I'm not sure about mortals having a special true name when they become a Daemon Prince. Reading 'Wrath of Iron', the Iron Hands purge a hive in which a Daemon Prince is coming across via a Warp Portal. Right at the conclusion a Librarian goes up against the Daemon Prince which is trying to break into the hive. The point is, although the Librarian was party to secret lore and knew many of the names of many of the traitors from the Legions, but he didn't know the name of this Prince, so he knew he couldn't fully destroy it by saying it's name. The Daemon then slays the Librarian, but taunts it by announcing that its name was in fact Julius Kaesoran. The Librarian then casts his mind into the warp-portal to destroy it. The Daemon Prince is left stranded on the wrong side and comes up against the Clan Commander, who doesn't recognise the name and can't ask the now-dead Librarian and is forced to slay the Prince by conventional means.

The implication of this is, because Daemon Prince taunted the Librarian as he was dying, and because the Commander failed to learn or recognise the name we can assume that Julius Kaesoran is it's true name rather than any other unspoken name. At least that's what I took from it - I could be wrong.

Which is relevant to the question posed, by the way, because Julius Kaesoran was the Captain of the 1st company of the Emperor's Children, so this implies his true name was the name he had as a mortal.

 KharnsRightHand wrote:

 Warpig1815 wrote:
I'm not sure about mortals having a special true name when they become a Daemon Prince. Reading 'Wrath of Iron', the Iron Hands purge a hive in which a Daemon Prince is coming across via a Warp Portal. Right at the conclusion a Librarian goes up against the Daemon Prince which is trying to break into the hive. The point is, although the Librarian was party to secret lore and knew many of the names of many of the traitors from the Legions, but he didn't know the name of this Prince, so he knew he couldn't fully destroy it by saying it's name. The Daemon then slays the Librarian, but taunts it by announcing that its name was in fact Julius Kaesoran. The Librarian then casts his mind into the warp-portal to destroy it. The Daemon Prince is left stranded on the wrong side and comes up against the Clan Commander, who doesn't recognise the name and can't ask the now-dead Librarian and is forced to slay the Prince by conventional means.

The implication of this is, because Daemon Prince taunted the Librarian as he was dying, and because the Commander failed to learn or recognise the name we can assume that Julius Kaesoran is it's true name rather than any other unspoken name. At least that's what I took from it - I could be wrong.

Which is relevant to the question posed, by the way, because Julius Kaesoran was the Captain of the 1st company of the Emperor's Children, so this implies his true name was the name he had as a mortal.

That's kinda why I posted it... Because tikhunt had said:

tikhunt wrote:So to answer your question, he would still be called Jeremy but that wouldn't be his true name, it wasn't to begin with.

True names are only really relevant to a daemon. Mortals still have them, but they lack the power they give over a daemon. Knowing a daemons true name is akin to having total control over its being, its very essence.

But the thing is that true names aren't something just anyone can find out, not even the person who the name belongs to. Its a difficult thing to figure out.

Knowing your own true name does give you immense power, power over yourself. However the trade off is that since you now know, others might find out as well. So its in your interest to guard your true name, never speak it aloud, etc...


Daemon Princes are a special case in all respects, since they were once mortal. I don't think their mortal names = their true names in all cases. However it could still be a significant tool to use against them. Symbolism is important in the warp, and your name when you were mortal will still have great significance.

So, what would a mortal gain, exactly, by learning his true name? Would he just suddenly have ungodly levels of self control and discipline, or would he actually be able to directly control the way that his soul develops, and change the nature of his being?

 dusara217 wrote:
So, what would a mortal gain, exactly, by learning his true name?

Nothing.

 dusara217 wrote:
So, what would a mortal gain, exactly, by learning his true name? Would he just suddenly have ungodly levels of self control and discipline, or would he actually be able to directly control the way that his soul develops, and change the nature of his being?

That subject isn't covered in the various psyker/Warp fluff in 40k, so it's really up to whatever you want. I think it would depend on whether the individual was already a psyker or sorcerer, though. A non-psyker, having extremely limited contact with the Warp, would probably not be able to do much with it.

 Warpig1815 wrote:

 KharnsRightHand wrote:

 Warpig1815 wrote:
I'm not sure about mortals having a special true name when they become a Daemon Prince. Reading 'Wrath of Iron', the Iron Hands purge a hive in which a Daemon Prince is coming across via a Warp Portal. Right at the conclusion a Librarian goes up against the Daemon Prince which is trying to break into the hive. The point is, although the Librarian was party to secret lore and knew many of the names of many of the traitors from the Legions, but he didn't know the name of this Prince, so he knew he couldn't fully destroy it by saying it's name. The Daemon then slays the Librarian, but taunts it by announcing that its name was in fact Julius Kaesoran. The Librarian then casts his mind into the warp-portal to destroy it. The Daemon Prince is left stranded on the wrong side and comes up against the Clan Commander, who doesn't recognise the name and can't ask the now-dead Librarian and is forced to slay the Prince by conventional means.

The implication of this is, because Daemon Prince taunted the Librarian as he was dying, and because the Commander failed to learn or recognise the name we can assume that Julius Kaesoran is it's true name rather than any other unspoken name. At least that's what I took from it - I could be wrong.

Which is relevant to the question posed, by the way, because Julius Kaesoran was the Captain of the 1st company of the Emperor's Children, so this implies his true name was the name he had as a mortal.

That's kinda why I posted it... Because tikhunt had said:

tikhunt wrote:So to answer your question, he would still be called Jeremy but that wouldn't be his true name, it wasn't to begin with.

Just pointing it out for those who might not have known who Kaesoran was.

@KharnsRightHand - Fair enough. To be honest, his name could have been anything, it was more the point that he announces his name (and was pretty peeved that the Librarian didn't know it) in a way that suggests he's rubbing it in, so that not only is the Librarian aware of who defeated him, but also knowing that the Librarian is too far gone to speak the name in the proper manner and banish him. Unfortunately, he figures without a very angry Clan Commander who ends up beheading him.

 dusara217 wrote:
So, what would a mortal gain, exactly, by learning his true name? Would he just suddenly have ungodly levels of self control and discipline, or would he actually be able to directly control the way that his soul develops, and change the nature of his being?

He'd potentially gain resilience to other people trying to manipulate him psionically. He's also be in the position of being able to give it to people, which may not be such a good thing.

in the old days, aka Slaves To Darkness, demonic true names are Chaos Gifts that a champion can receive as a reward on the path to Princedom.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:
So, what would a mortal gain, exactly, by learning his true name? Would he just suddenly have ungodly levels of self control and discipline, or would he actually be able to directly control the way that his soul develops, and change the nature of his being?

He'd potentially gain resilience to other people trying to manipulate him psionically. He's also be in the position of being able to give it to people, which may not be such a good thing.

I believe that Prospero Burns deals with that its been awhile since I've read it but:

Kind of a cool little twist.

Also if I remember correctly there was a GK novel that they used the true name of a daemon against it, effectively killing simply by saying its name.

I love that part of the book.

Don't you go insane if you learn it as a mortal? I remember a psyker learning a Daemons true name and going mad as a result.

I believe that is a real possibility, in that GK book an inquisitor is the one who discovered the daemons name and it burned out her mind. She ended up passing it along to Alric before being vented into space. Later when Alric said the name it was burning his tongue.

Ephrael Stern was able to hold the entirety of Slaanesh's true name in her head for years without losing her mind, although she eventually went into seclusion at the Black Library as a result.

Most Daemon Princes take pseudonames upon acension to hide this true name. In the case of Daemon Primarchs, their true name is that which the Emperor originally intended to name them.

 Deadshot wrote:
Most Daemon Princes take pseudonames upon acension to hide this true name. In the case of Daemon Primarchs, their true name is that which the Emperor originally intended to name them.

Surely Konrad Curze got his name from the Big E? Nobody on Nostramo knew him as anything but Night Haunter. So if he had become a Daemon Primarch everyone would have known his true name straight up?

 JustALittleOrkish wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
Most Daemon Princes take pseudonames upon acension to hide this true name. In the case of Daemon Primarchs, their true name is that which the Emperor originally intended to name them.

Surely Konrad Curze got his name from the Big E? Nobody on Nostramo knew him as anything but Night Haunter. So if he had become a Daemon Primarch everyone would have known his true name straight up?

True names are mutable, even the GK codex addresses that where a True Name might work one day it might now the next, because a being's true name is a complete description and encyclopedia of that being's existance. The Primarch true names probably work that way because the Emperor forged them, they did not come naturally into being, and the Warp was used in their creation, so their nature is one with the warp as their entire history has been crafted as part of the warp. Plus, their current names as chosen by their human fathers already offer those false names other Daemons work to create.

I was wondering is it just necessary to speak a daemon's true name to have power over it or do you have to know that the name belongs to the daemon? For example, if I spent years rattling off a spell to summon a daemon systematically going over combinations of syllables in place of its name, would that ever work?

 the Signless wrote:
I was wondering is it just necessary to speak a daemon's true name to have power over it or do you have to know that the name belongs to the daemon? For example, if I spent years rattling off a spell to summon a daemon systematically going over combinations of syllables in place of its name, would that ever work?

That's assuming a daemon wouldn't rip you in half while you rattle off these combos. It also assumes that the daemon would react to you guessing correctly; they could just play cool and ignore it so you move on to the next combo and never know you were right