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Hi all! As a DG player (and someone who's main experiences with tanks come from running Leman Russ's) What are some of the 'effective' ways of running predators?

I thought about the conversion beamers, but fluff says that those are way to fragile, so were rarely used in the legion.

I was considering using the Predator cannon variant, but S: 7 doesn't seem like enough for a battle tank. Being DG I also like the idea of the flame storm cannon, but like the melta nd plasma weapon, the tanks are just to fragile to make use of them. Any thoughts on the matter? I feel it would be good to point out that I also have 2 (soon 3?) vindicators/medusas, and a whirlwind scorpius as well to support these preds.

Plasma Preds are pretty nice. I find my opponents underestimate their damage potential due it being a small model compared to the monsters that run around in 30k.

In my very limited (like two games) experience, I’ve had fun with my auto/las pred. S7 might not be all that, but I’m loving the 4 shots it gets in 30k rather then the 2 in 40k. Something still needs to pop rhinos, shoot down speeders, etc.

I might be biased, as I’m trying to keep as WYSWYG as possible while utilizing as much of my existing collection as I can. But It seemed to do OK for me. Might not have been the best choice, but it did work.

While I really enjoy the big toys, I love my Predators a lot. I use one executioner (the plasma)
and two Infernus variants. (I have the guns magnetized so I can swap out the Melta and flamestorm cannon.)

They do their job well, especially when charging a slow army.

I've found the Melta are better at fortifications and Heavy infantry removal. (Like terminators). But only "okay" against other tanks.

Honestly the best anti tank variant is the annihilator (lascanons) but it's expensive point wise.

For Deathguard though the Flamestorm cannons are excellent for supporting footsloggers.

I use the auto/las pred and it's pretty good. Useful for popping rhinos and the lascannons can be used to take out heavier stuff. I have a vindicator laser destroyer to also take out heavier stuff and a whirlwind scorpius for crowd control.

The Predator's a decent unit but I feel that it competes against the Vindicator for everything, especially since Retribution gave us squadrons. It's a fine unit by it's own merits, but you really have to give it a role and a gun that makes the most of it.

Misses
- DakkaPred doesn't work in 30k because AP4 just won't kill enough bodies to make it worthwhile. Even with the upgunned Predator Cannon, you're killing 1-2 MEQs a turn, before Apothecaries. You'd be lucky to kill your own weight in Marines even if you had all game to do it.
- The Magna-Melta is entirely obsolete next to a Vindicator. The only vehicles big enough to justify a dedicated Melta-platform are almost always going to have Armoured Ceramite and even when they don't, the Demolisher's S10/Ordnance will take you further. Not to mention the difference in ID thresholds when tackling infantry.
- The Executioner is a very similar story. 3 small blasts cover less area than a single large and I'd prefer having the S10 and not Getting Hot next to another 12" range. Not to mention that S10 and Ordnance still lets you bully armour at a pinch, where the Plasma is very specific in what you can hunt.
- AutoLas looks good on paper, but the same price gets you a Laser Array on the Vindicator. Both require you to be a static firebox to work properly but the Vindicator is throwing more lasers, with Ordnance and Twin-Linked working for it.

Hits
- The Conversion Beamer is basically a Vindicator that works from sniper ranges rather than up-close. It's dependent on deploying with a proper firing arc and worthless up-close, but it does fulfil a role that nothing else can. It can do some decent work as an anti-Rapier or HSS piece.
- The Flamestorm has been saved until last because I believe it is the best. There is obvious, immediate application for an AP3 template in the 30k landscape. A PotMS Flamestorm Predator makes a simple, efficient removal tool in an environment with far fewer Krak Grenades to threaten it than before.

As an aside, I'd say that the best use for a Predator is as a rock-bottom Scoring/Troop unit when taken in an Armoured Breakthrough. They are the absolute cheapest unit available to you and taking 2 alongside a Delegatus is the cheapest way to unlock a Primary and save points for the real hitters. They even give you Fast for your trouble, which largely replicates PotMS for free across your whole armoured detachment.
And Elite Sicarans never hurt anyone except your opponent.

Mozzamanx wrote:

Misses
- DakkaPred doesn't work in 30k because AP4 just won't kill enough bodies to make it worthwhile. Even with the upgunned Predator Cannon, you're killing 1-2 MEQs a turn, before Apothecaries. You'd be lucky to kill your own weight in Marines even if you had all game to do it.

Unless your DA, because of the acid heavy bolter rounds. Heavy bolter pintel+sponsons with the Pred-cannon to keep it cheap.

Iron Warriors can also sort of make it work, since they can take AP5/pinning heavy bolters. All you need is one unsaved wound to force a pinning check, and pinning hurts alot more in 30k. But you need the to fail a armour save, and then a LD check so it's kinda hit and miss. I got a feeling the math hammer probably doesn't work out in favour for it. lol

The Predator Cannon/Heavy Bolter platform is also nice against non-astartes. Whilst they're not common, a fast platform that can chop up Solar Auxilia and has the strength to hurt Vorax battle automata is not bad. Plus, high rate of fire weapons are not bad at getting land speeders to sod off - or at least jink.

The Conversion Beamer is nice, but is a much less scary antitank weapon than a laser vindicator, and area-destruction of troops is....so so. Terminators tend to appear close due to either teleporting, transports, or whatever.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Plasma Preds are pretty nice. I find my opponents underestimate their damage potential due it being a small model compared to the monsters that run around in 30k.

With the proliferation of Terminators in 30k games, Plasma Predators seem to be a decent choice.

I've run naked predator destructors in low point games successfully with the armoured breakthrough rite of war. I've also had a good experience the time I used a pair of conversion beamers in-place of my medusas on a large table.

I think the key to using them successfully is to keep them cheap and cheerful and know what role you need them to fill. They are flexible and can deliver their points easily.

 Lockark wrote:

Unless your DA, because of the acid heavy bolter rounds. Heavy bolter pintel+sponsons with the Pred-cannon to keep it cheap.

Iron Warriors can also sort of make it work, since they can take AP5/pinning heavy bolters. All you need is one unsaved wound to force a pinning check, and pinning hurts alot more in 30k. But you need the to fail a armour save, and then a LD check so it's kinda hit and miss. I got a feeling the math hammer probably doesn't work out in favour for it. lol

Unfortunately for DA, Acid Rounds are only available to models with LA: DA and so the Predator cannot take them. Iron Warriors still get Shrapnel Rounds though, and of course Blood Angels get a set of sponsons to stick Assault Cannons onto.
I agree that Predators work as a unit by themselves, I simply feel that they struggle when compared to Vindicators as they often compete in the same fields and a Demolisher Cannon or Laser Array is really, really hard to beat.