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****Edit**** New revised a bit below.

Game in a couple weeks against Tau. I built this list oriented towards Maelstrom of war and not necessarily taking out his units to the maximum. Please critique this list and let me know how to make it stronger.


----- Combined Arms Detachment ----
HQ

Librarian lvl 2
Gallons Staff and Jump Pack

Elites

10 Death Company - combat squaded
2 PF per 5, Jump Packs

5 Death Company
1 PF, Jump Packs

Troops

5 Scouts
Cloaks, Combat Blade

5 Tactical Squad
1 Hvy Flamer, 1 Flamer,
Dedicated Transport: Razorback - Las. Plas, Dozer Blades

Fast

5 Assault Marines
2 Melta Guns, 2 Infernus Pistol, Jump Packs

5 Assault Marines
2 Melta Guns, 2 Infernus Pistol, Jump Packs

Land Speeder Squadron
Heavy Bolter x2

Heavy Support

Baal Predator
Twin Linked Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolter Sponsons, Dozer Blades

Storm Raven
Assault Cannon, Twin Linked Melta Gun

Vindicator
Dozer Blade, Overcharged Engines, Seige Sheild

----- Allied Detachment -------
Space Marines

HQ

Librarian


Troops

Scouts
Came Cloaks, rifles

Heavy Support
Thunderfire Cannon


Lvl 2 Librarian, with 5 death company ride the raven to secure a turn 3 charge against the best/most appropriate threat. I figured CC will go my way anyways, so no need to over do it with a ton of CC quality weapons.

1850 on the nose. Help is appreciated!

What chapter tactic is your allied detachment going off? i'd recommend either ravenguard or ultramarines, ravenguard means you can scrap those camo cloaks and then pull the scout squad from your Blood Angels into the allied detachment (as marine scouts are just better) and then add a 2nd tactical in your BA. Also get rid of the dozer blade on your vindie it doesnt need it with the siege shield.

My personal opinion on the speeders is to have either dual heavy flamers or dual multi meltas but if you dont have the points for that heavy bolters give some long ranged support.

Only thing im not certain on is the Storm Raven, its a flying death trap... a huge points sink if your using it to ferry your death company... other than that its a good all round list, maybe add an auspex to your libby as -1 cover is better than nothing.

Good call on the Chapter tactics - I hadn't given that thought just yet. Also, thanks for spotting the Vindicator Dozer Blades too. In my experience with this gentleman that I will be playing against, usually Anti Air isn't something he puts points into - so I am fairly confident it can last at least until round 3 so it can deliver the pay load. Plus with the new flyer rules, I'll have air superiority and can hopefully mess with his reserve rolls to boot.

Also, I cannot have two scout squads in the allied detachment while adding a tactical in my main since it would put me over points. I could do away with all cloaks and add that tac squad. They'd be foot slogging with a melta gun though.

I should say I've seen scouts be pretty damn resilient with cloaks, in ruins, going to ground while objective secured. I've got much thinking to do. Thanks for the comments sir!

Why bring on allied units?

Why not just run straight BA with a Baal Strike Force. Take Cassus the Damn as a troop choice and you can take him with the stormraven.

The_Lion - That is a good question. I have found that I need some form of long range support to attempt to take out his marker lights. It is my hope that I can put a good amount of pressure on his drones or pathfinders with this weapon. That said, I've been recommended by several folks that cannon can do just that.

Also I thought to take a 5 man tac squad so I could further claim objectives with the razorback while hopefully picking off targets.

Do you honestly think Crassor the Damned is the way to go? Would he replace a 5 man DC if you were doing it?

1. Death company can't combat squad. Doesn't seem exceptionally important given that you didn't use up 3 elite spots, but the more you know...

2. If those 5 man ASM squads are packing across the table, they will not live to use their meltas and inferno pistols...

3. ...They could if they're deep striking, in which case you REALLY want Dante because not getting descent of angels wl trait would be disastrous. In either case, if they aren't podding, switch the gunslinger to a combi-melta. I will literally only take the inferno gunslinger loadout in a pod squad that gets to correct their landing by disembarking 6".

4. Your 5 man BA tac squad has an illegal loadout, taking both a heavy and special in a 5 man squad. Also, like many other short range weapons, I don't trust a heavy flamer to make it across the board without a pod. Especially not in a razorback.

5. Cassor coming out of a stormraven is surprisingly useful. The fact that he's a character and gets to shout a challenge out to the fist-sergeant or klaw-nob as soon as he gets in comes up fairly often. Not as awesome against tau, but he stands a good chance against a riptide one-on-one. (It's sad that it's not an overwhelming victory for a DC dread vs a shooty MC, but that's just a massive imbalance in walker vs MC rules at work.)

Id also say change the razor back for a rhino but thats my own experience.

Ant85 wrote:
The_Lion - That is a good question. I have found that I need some form of long range support to attempt to take out his marker lights. It is my hope that I can put a good amount of pressure on his drones or pathfinders with this weapon. That said, I've been recommended by several folks that cannon can do just that.

Also I thought to take a 5 man tac squad so I could further claim objectives with the razorback while hopefully picking off targets.

Do you honestly think Crassor the Damned is the way to go? Would he replace a 5 man DC if you were doing it?

I have played against Tau with my blood angels and never used allies. Straight Blood Angels and have won a few games. Granted it is not easy against marker lights but drop pod ASM/DC and that should help deal with them.

I don't remember if I mention this already but SR with Crassor the Damned (well worth by the way) and maybe DC with chaplin and jump packs (SR can take them) get up close and deploy assault. Tau's are weak against assault so think of the best way you can get your marines in their ass fast and luckly BA excel in fast vehicles to get into combat. Maybe a Baal Predator for armor support.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 niv-mizzet wrote:
1. Death company can't combat squad. Doesn't seem exceptionally important given that you didn't use up 3 elite spots, but the more you know...

2. If those 5 man ASM squads are packing across the table, they will not live to use their meltas and inferno pistols...

3. ...They could if they're deep striking, in which case you REALLY want Dante because not getting descent of angels wl trait would be disastrous. In either case, if they aren't podding, switch the gunslinger to a combi-melta. I will literally only take the inferno gunslinger loadout in a pod squad that gets to correct their landing by disembarking 6".

4. Your 5 man BA tac squad has an illegal loadout, taking both a heavy and special in a 5 man squad. Also, like many other short range weapons, I don't trust a heavy flamer to make it across the board without a pod. Especially not in a razorback.

5. Cassor coming out of a stormraven is surprisingly useful. The fact that he's a character and gets to shout a challenge out to the fist-sergeant or klaw-nob as soon as he gets in comes up fairly often. Not as awesome against tau, but he stands a good chance against a riptide one-on-one. (It's sad that it's not an overwhelming victory for a DC dread vs a shooty MC, but that's just a massive imbalance in walker vs MC rules at work.)

Also listen to this guy ^ he knows what he is talking about.

Dante is a very good choice as a warlord, I used him with Sanguinary Guards and they cast fear so the Tau would have to take leadership test.

Also do you know what kinda Tau units you are going to be fighting? Also I take back what I said earlier about no allies I lied, I took a Imperial Knight for my fire support/I am going to D (Destroyer weapon) your xeno ass lol.

The gentleman I will be facing has always used an additional supplement for his Tau .. something conclaive? Through our texting banter, I've picked up that I will most likely be facing 2 riptides. /sigh. So, I've taken your comments and have devised the following list:

HQ
Chaplin - Jump Pack
Librarian lvl 2 - Jump Pack

Elites
Command Squad x5 - Jump Packs
Death Company x5 - Jump, 1 PF
Death Company x5 - Jump, 1 PF

Troops
Cassor the Damned (rides in SR)
Scouts Squad x5 - Camo Cloaks, Shot Guns
Tactical Troop x10 - 1 Melta, 1 Heavy Bolter
- Dedicated Transport: Rhino

Fast Attack
Assault Squad x5 - 2x Meltagun, Combi-Meta, Jump Packs
Assault Squad x5 - 2x Meltagun, Combi-Meta Jump Packs

Heavy Support
Sicaran Battle Tank - Accelerator Autocannon, Heavy Bolter sponsons, Armoured Ceremite (ignore melta rule)
Stormraven Gunship - Twinlinked Assault Cannon, Twin-linked Multi-melta

Lord of War
Dante

Dante with Command squad to get Feel No Pain; arrive deep strike. Librarian with 5 DC to foot slog on turn 1, playing defensive. Assault Squad looks for Tau Broadsides with melta guns, while being moble enough to threaten a charge at a riptide after. Best case they pop things turn 2, then tie up riptide for a turn or two. Stormraven arrives and hopefully puts some lead into something, looking to unload DC and Chaplain to ideally take down a Riptide. Cassor too. Just depends. I will be using a proxy for the sicaran as I do want to purchase one in the future. My opponent is aware and is ok with this. Use this to pop those annoying jinked vehicles and to possibly put wounds in Riptide. Will prioritize combat suits as usually he brings the Buff-mander.

What do you think? I worry I won't have enough troops capping objectives.

Ant85 wrote:
The gentleman I will be facing has always used an additional supplement for his Tau .. something conclaive? Through our texting banter, I've picked up that I will most likely be facing 2 riptides. /sigh. So, I've taken your comments and have devised the following list:

HQ
Chaplin - Jump Pack
Librarian lvl 2 - Jump Pack

Elites
Command Squad x5 - Jump Packs
Death Company x5 - Jump, 1 PF
Death Company x5 - Jump, 1 PF

Troops
Cassor the Damned (rides in SR)
Scouts Squad x5 - Camo Cloaks, Shot Guns
Tactical Troop x10 - 1 Melta, 1 Heavy Bolter
- Dedicated Transport: Rhino

Fast Attack
Assault Squad x5 - 2x Meltagun, Combi-Meta, Jump Packs
Assault Squad x5 - 2x Meltagun, Combi-Meta Jump Packs

Heavy Support
Sicaran Battle Tank - Accelerator Autocannon, Heavy Bolter sponsons, Armoured Ceremite (ignore melta rule)
Stormraven Gunship - Twinlinked Assault Cannon, Twin-linked Multi-melta

Lord of War
Dante

Dante with Command squad to get Feel No Pain; arrive deep strike. Librarian with 5 DC to foot slog on turn 1, playing defensive. Assault Squad looks for Tau Broadsides with melta guns, while being moble enough to threaten a charge at a riptide after. Best case they pop things turn 2, then tie up riptide for a turn or two. Stormraven arrives and hopefully puts some lead into something, looking to unload DC and Chaplain to ideally take down a Riptide. Cassor too. Just depends. I will be using a proxy for the sicaran as I do want to purchase one in the future. My opponent is aware and is ok with this. Use this to pop those annoying jinked vehicles and to possibly put wounds in Riptide. Will prioritize combat suits as usually he brings the Buff-mander.

What do you think? I worry I won't have enough troops capping objectives.

What are you equipping the Command Squad with? I think its better to run Dante with Sanguinary squad for that fear, melee wreck and hit and run. I would replace the heavy bolter with a multimelta (cause you really can't get enough) or heavy flamer. Are you going to combat squad the tac squad? Why not give you ASM TH or PF at least one ? I think they will against riptides. Are your ASM not going to get into melee action to tie up battle suits so they can't help support fire or overwatch (even though you have to deal with it the first time you charge) for other units?

Overall I like the list and think you will do well.

Put Dante in a command squad with storm shields and melta guns. Hilarity ensues.

The_Lion - Yes, I will combat squad the tactical squad. Ideally, I'll book-it to one objective then make my way to another. I also plan on putting a fair amount of objectives closer together than our normal even-spread method . It's only recently I've discovered that this favors me over shooty armies who want me spread out.

I am not positive the Sanguinary Guard are the answer. First off, Dante will cause fear, so why would I need 5 other guys to do the same? Also, the Tau aren't known for great close combat. I feel the SG are a bit overkill. Also, taking a Command Squad means I do not need to take a Sanguinary Priest for FNP as they come with it.

As Martel suggests, maybe giving storm shields to the command squad will increase my survive-ability with Dante, but that is only if I am charging the riptide with the insane 12 shot gun or those annoying rifles that get AP 2 at close range. I feel the Dante is there more to be a bully than to actually chase Riptides. If the opportunity presents itself, sure, why not. But his presence can make my opponent weary to come close to my objectives - that and he can tank a gak ton of damage. All this mixed with every squad, semi-accurately, coming in on turn 2 due to Decent of Angels, I plan to hold a portion of the board where these objectives will be camped. I effectively keep my guys from being shot at for a whole 5th of the game - assuming 5 rounds.

The Assault Marines will attempt to pop transports. However, they will first prioritize Broadsides. Melta guns insta-kill Broadsides due to Str 8. It is my hope that by turn 3, I can be in a position to charge Cassor or DC from the Raven at a Riptide, while using the Assault Marines as the initial chargers (if any survive turn 2). that's why the ASM have jump packs instead of using a drop pod. So that if they survive turn 2, they have a better chance to get the Riptide in CC. My opponent has always been super lucky with his jetpack assault moves it's gross.

I feel confident in this list you all helped me create. Not to change subject, but I did devise a new list with a slightly different aim. That of putting everything in transports as much as possible. If you think this will be better, please let me know:

HQ

Librarian
Auspex, Gallian's Staff, Psyker (ML2), The Crown Angelic

Elites

7 Death Company Squad 2x pf

Troops

Cassor the Damned
Scout Squad - Camo Cloaks, 5x Shotgun
Tactical Squad - Heavy Bolter, Rhino
Tactical Squad - Heavy Bolter, Rhino

Fast Attack

Assault Squad - 2x plasma pistols, Rhino
Assault Squad - 2x plasma pistols, Rhino
Bike Squad - 2x Grav-gun,
--- Attack Bike - Heavy Bolter

Heavy Support

Sicaran Battle Tank - Extra Armour, Hull-mounted Heavy Bolter, Ceremite plating
Stormraven Gunship - Extra Armour, Twin Linked Assault Cannon, Twin-linked Multi-melta

LOW

Knight Paladin - Heavy Stubber, Cannon, Ironstorm Missle Pod, Reaper Chainsword


Obviously, DC, Librarian and Cassor go in Stormraven. Melta on Assault Marines are changed to Plamsa as I know he likes to use crisis suits to Deep Strike. Similar to our Melta-cide squads. I this the second list will do more damage initially. But I've not really played with my fully painted Dante and I feel like i have not done him justice. Anyways, thoughts on which is more tactically sound? Despite all these long posts, I am still pretty green in this game. I feel like I do not know what I a doing!

Ant85 wrote:
The_Lion - Yes, I will combat squad the tactical squad. Ideally, I'll book-it to one objective then make my way to another. I also plan on putting a fair amount of objectives closer together than our normal even-spread method . It's only recently I've discovered that this favors me over shooty armies who want me spread out.

I am not positive the Sanguinary Guard are the answer. First off, Dante will cause fear, so why would I need 5 other guys to do the same? Also, the Tau aren't known for great close combat. I feel the SG are a bit overkill. Also, taking a Command Squad means I do not need to take a Sanguinary Priest for FNP as they come with it.

As Martel suggests, maybe giving storm shields to the command squad will increase my survive-ability with Dante, but that is only if I am charging the riptide with the insane 12 shot gun or those annoying rifles that get AP 2 at close range. I feel the Dante is there more to be a bully than to actually chase Riptides. If the opportunity presents itself, sure, why not. But his presence can make my opponent weary to come close to my objectives - that and he can tank a gak ton of damage. All this mixed with every squad, semi-accurately, coming in on turn 2 due to Decent of Angels, I plan to hold a portion of the board where these objectives will be camped. I effectively keep my guys from being shot at for a whole 5th of the game - assuming 5 rounds.

The Assault Marines will attempt to pop transports. However, they will first prioritize Broadsides. Melta guns insta-kill Broadsides due to Str 8. It is my hope that by turn 3, I can be in a position to charge Cassor or DC from the Raven at a Riptide, while using the Assault Marines as the initial chargers (if any survive turn 2). that's why the ASM have jump packs instead of using a drop pod. So that if they survive turn 2, they have a better chance to get the Riptide in CC. My opponent has always been super lucky with his jetpack assault moves it's gross.

I feel confident in this list you all helped me create. Not to change subject, but I did devise a new list with a slightly different aim. That of putting everything in transports as much as possible. If you think this will be better, please let me know:

HQ

Librarian
Auspex, Gallian's Staff, Psyker (ML2), The Crown Angelic

Elites

7 Death Company Squad 2x pf

Troops

Cassor the Damned
Scout Squad - Camo Cloaks, 5x Shotgun
Tactical Squad - Heavy Bolter, Rhino
Tactical Squad - Heavy Bolter, Rhino

Fast Attack

Assault Squad - 2x plasma pistols, Rhino
Assault Squad - 2x plasma pistols, Rhino
Bike Squad - 2x Grav-gun,
--- Attack Bike - Heavy Bolter

Heavy Support

Sicaran Battle Tank - Extra Armour, Hull-mounted Heavy Bolter, Ceremite plating
Stormraven Gunship - Extra Armour, Twin Linked Assault Cannon, Twin-linked Multi-melta

LOW

Knight Paladin - Heavy Stubber, Cannon, Ironstorm Missle Pod, Reaper Chainsword


Obviously, DC, Librarian and Cassor go in Stormraven. Melta on Assault Marines are changed to Plamsa as I know he likes to use crisis suits to Deep Strike. Similar to our Melta-cide squads. I this the second list will do more damage initially. But I've not really played with my fully painted Dante and I feel like i have not done him justice. Anyways, thoughts on which is more tactically sound? Despite all these long posts, I am still pretty green in this game. I feel like I do not know what I a doing!

Ok ok I can see where you are coming from. I personally don't mind the overkill but the fnp is very nice. Defiantly kill the broadsides cause they can be very annoying. I think it would be hard to try and secure and hold objectives when Tau can just pop shoot you from long range, weaken you enough and then come in and take the objectives. However I think your plan with the ASM and DC are sound.

I like your first list better but the second list is not bad still think you should drop the heavy bolter and go either multamelta and inferno pistol instead of plasma but that is my style.

But please try both list out if you can and let us know how they turn out. I am interested to see how your BA beats the tar out of Tau.