Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Folks might remember how the 4th Edition Imperial Guard had the Doctrines System, where you could restrict yourself from taking certain units in order to have up to five "Doctrine Points" you could use for customizing your army, and representing the quirks of the many different regiments out there. However, in practice, most of the "restricted units" weren't worth taking, and some of the doctrines were themselves really not worth taking, and thus some combinations were just simply better than others. (Drop Troop/Close Order Drill/Iron Discipline/pick two).

Awhile ago I tried drafting up an elaborate Chapter Traits system, which was loosely based off the Deathwatch: Rites of War Chapter Creation System, but heavily scaled down for the tabletop. Summary being:
-Select up to 2 Major Codex Deviations, with the option to substitute any Major Codex Deviation for 2 Minor Codex Deviations, or a Renowned Legacy.
-Select a Geneseed Mutation or a Renowned Legacy
-Select a Chapter Controversy (Originally "Chapter Secret"), or a Renowned Legacy.
-Freebie: Select either 2 Minor Codex Deviations, a Major Codex Deviation, a Geneseed Mutation, a Chapter Controversy, or a Renowned Legacy.

The idea being you could take this system, and plug it to represent chapters, be they ultra-orthodox (Sons of Gulliman/Novamarines/etc), of the Cursed Founding, or borderline Heretical (alas, poor Relictors, and Silver Sharks).

So I'm contemplating a system like this for Guard. At first I contemplated scaling down the Regiment Creation System from Only War, but that system does have a lot of idiosyncracies (and /tg/ has shown how you can easily roll up weird cases, like the "1st Membrane" Regiment which had a 90% Psyker rate!), and "Alternate Regiment" organizations are tricky to implement for standard CAD-play (and I'm personally still avoidant of most "multidetachment" structures), and "Commander Disposition" is a bit too much also.

So what defines a regiment? Sure, there's the "skillset" (what they're "good/bad" at), or special equipment, but there's also the "culture" that's involved, so I'm theoretically imagining a regiment creation system would be based on "select one of x, from a sliding scale."

"Duty versus Glory:" On one hand, you have some cultures that value camraderie and teamwork. Voystroyan Regiments are bound by familial ties, Cadians raised from the same Kasr drill in the same Whiteshield Platoons, etc. On the other hand, you have those regiments where soldiers focus more on personal honor and gung-ho heroics. The quote "Stop whining Brook, you've got another damned leg. D'ya think I cried like a damn new-born when I lost my arm? Course I damn well didn't. I upped and ripped that damned land shark's throat out with my damned teeth!", has been attributed to the famed Catachan Colonel Ironhand Straken, but other notable examples include the Attilans, Brontian Long-Knives and Kanak Skull-Takers.

In-game, the more Duty-aligned regiments would have access to "teamwork"-based bonuses, hypothetical examples including:
-"Supporting Fire"-style shenanigans
-"Being able to see/charge through each other"
-Being able to "cross-relay" orders further down the line. (Platoon orders one squad, that squad can theoretically re-issue the same order to another squad within 6")

Glory-aligned regiments would get bonuses that allow them a chance to play for Hollywood Tactics and maybe even have a chance at success, for example:
-Special "Invulnerable Save" against Overwatch attacks.
-Furious Charge/Rampage
-The ability to use extra Grenades in the Shooting/Assault Phases.

"Purity versus Adaptability:" Some regiments are known for holding the form of man inviolate, and for their adherence to religious stricture. The Maccabian Janissaries are one of the more notable examples. Others are known for high levels of abhumans, and ready use of Psykers (the Mordians are perhaps the best example of this).

The "Pure" regiments would have access to "Purity" based bonuses, including:
-Ability to use Battle Hymns in the Shooting Phase.
-Priests generate Warp Charge which may only be used for "Deny the Witch" rolls.
-Hatred (Psykers).

The "Adaptable" regiments would have access to bonuses related to Psykers/Abhumans, hypothetical examples including:
-"Mixed" platoons, with the ability to add an Ogryn/Bullgryn to a regular Guard Squad.
-"Ratling Pathfinders:" Ratlings are no longer Elite, but each Platoon can take up to one unit of Ratlings. Guard squads move an extra 3" so long as they move closer to a unit of Ratlings from their same platoon.
-"More Astropaths:" The ability for Platoon Command Squads to include an Astropath.

"Orthodoxy vs Expediency:" Some regiments place great value on chain of command, obedience, and following orders to-the-letter. The most extreme example would be the Death Korps of Krieg, but other notable examples include the Mordian Iron Guard, Terrax Guard, or (to a lesser extent) the Scintillian Fusiliers. Others are more disdainful of authority, and will secure victory through more underhanded means. The Savlar Chem-Dogs are infamous kleptomaniacs, the Catachans have a history of "accidents" among their Commissars, and the Jopall Indentured Corps once assassinated a Big Mek by pretending to be from Von Strab's bodyguard and delivering a gift of several booby-trapped Basilisks which they outright stole. And of course, one cannot forget the Last Chancers...

The "Orthodox" regiments would have access to "Textbook Warfare" bonuses, hypothetical examples including:
-Better ability to issue orders in the first place.
-Better reserve manipulation.
-The ability to fire artillery onto their own troops.

The "Expedient" regiments would have access to more "Underhanded" bonuses, hypothetical examples including:
-Low-level squad sergeants having better access to "acquired" wargear.
-Booby-traps.
-Access to combat drugs (Frenzon/Slaught/etc), nitrochem inhalers, etc.

"Intractability versus Mobility:" This one is a bit trickier, because it also can tie into the regiment type (An "intractible" drop regiment would be silly for example), but it would represent how the regiment views the old Maoism "Keep men, lose land, land can be retaken. Keep land, lose men, both men and land are lost." On one hand, you have the Mordians and Kriegers, that will hold the line, no matter what. On the other hand, you have the Tallarn Desert Raiders and Tanith First and Only, whom are masters of guerilla warfare, or the Elysian Drop Troops.

Intractible regiments get bonuses related to "staying still", hypothetical examples including:
-May choose to "Go To Ground" if they fail a Morale Check from shooting/witchfires.
-May "recycle" conscript units.
-Commissars always select which model they may execute.

"Mobile" regiments get bonuses related to "moving around", hypothetical examples including:
-May disembark from transports that moved up to 12", rather than 6"
-Hit & Run
-Pre-game scout moves (that do not confer Outflank)

What are your thoughts? Are these fair "spectrums" to categorize Guard Regiments against? What other ideas/thoughts would you have?

It's not a bad idea, though you will need some caution to avoid it becoming bloated with options. It is very fun and easy to make charts and tables of buffs, but applying them is a much trickier kettle of fish. Looking at it, there are combinations and choices that are hands-down better than the alternative, so rather than adding flavor and variety, you've installed another 'best choice' item that you'd have to be a fool to NOT take. Let me explain with what you have here:

Duty vs Glory - For a Guard player, Duty is instantly just the smarter choice. Why would I ever need protection against overwatch with guardsmen? They are far better shooting than charging and that is a pretty commonly held fact. With Duty I get more orders, supporting fire and can better minimize enemy cover saves. With Glory I get protection from overwatch and furious charge...on guardsmen.

Purity vs Adaptability - Same thing here. Purity makes the things that are good better for guard, while Adaptability gives Ratlings. Ratlings who are best as snipers, but now have to pull duty escorting my guard squads around. And Ogryns maybe, but again what purpose does a single Ogryn have in a squad that thrives on shooting? It won't affect the Toughness of the unit, and it will mostly just sit there until poor Ld makes it run.

Orthodox vs Expedient - See above. Orthodox is miles better than Expedient. I mean, what is a low-level sergeant going to do with a better melee weapon, really?


And so on down the line. The core idea is solid, but the current execution has choices that are clear winners and choices that are clear losers.

I get you. The initial balance will be problematic simply the bonuses drafted up are based on the "units as is" (aka "Gee, do I make my Priests better, or do I take more Ratlings"), and playing to the strengths of said army.

Initial balance aside, would you say these are fair "sliding scales" that categorize how IG Regiments act/feel/"are", or are there some others I'm missing out on?

As an example, one thing I'm tenatively ignoring is how "technophiliac" a particular regiment is. While Feral/Feudal worlders can be trained in the Lasgun/some Specials and sent to fight, and "Civilized/Agritech" societies can use tech with no issue, some societies are even more renowned for their artifice. The Vostroyans have ancestral lasguns with real wooden stocks, while the technical proficiency of Van Saar gangers makes them valued as "High Utility Conscripts". That said, there could be some better "divide" for measuring the character of the regiment, or five sliding scales might be one too many as is.

And if they're fair "scales" to measure a regiment, what are some tweaks/alternate bonuses that would be appropriate for particular regiments? Like, what lets the Glory hounds get their day in the sun?

It's not a bad idea but a much more simplified version of it already exists in 30k. Lookup Rites of War to see some good examples of how they effect the way you use a single FOC to different effects with a army.

I'd actually been hacking on a similar set of ideas trying to get a short list of warband variants for my 40k-Mordheim project, and this is giving me a lot to think about, thank you.

(I haven't gone in for restricting access to certain units by variant yet, my tentative list right now is Grim Warriors (stubbornness, simple morale benefits; intended for Krieg, Valhalla, and the like), Rangers (snipers, camo-cloaks, infantry terrain benefits; intended for Tallarn, Tanith, and the like), Disciplined Troops (more/better Orders; intended for Cadia, Mordia, and the like), Deathworlders (S4 on some models, infantry terrain benefits; intended for Catachans and the like), and Penal Legion (lower morale but the ability to scrounge stuff and make use of it more easily))