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So, by hard mode I'm talking about armies that are unforgiving of mistakes but effective if played with a high level of competency. In other words, armies that aren't easy/hard because they're op, but are easy/hard because the margin of error allowed. so, with this in mind please go ahead and list which armies you think deserve the accolade of being hard to play.

Honestly, probably the sub-faction books like Stormtroopers, Harlequins, etc simply because they're not built as complete armies and are missing gobs of essential functionality. In terms of full armies, I'd probably go with Dark Eldar and Chaos Space Marines, DE because they're so fragile and each unit is typically very mono-role, and CSM's because they fundamentally want to operate to a 4E or 5E ruleset and it's very tricky to get functionality out of them in 7E.

I'd probably put Necrons at the polar opposite as being the most overall "EZ-mode" (even if not necessarily the most powerful), most of their units are multi-function to at least some degree and have so much damage mitigation that they can majorly muck up and still salvage games with regularity, and have way more speed than people usually give them credit for between Jetbikes, Wraiths, probably the best flyer transports in the game, open topped skimmer transports, and Relentless/MTC formation/Decurion bonuses.

Dark Eldar (it's their thing), Stormtroopers (like marines, but squishy), Deathwatch (not enough bodies), Harlequins (like DE, but punchier).

At least, that's my opinion

DE are potentially the faction consciously designed to be the 'hard mode' faction. I think in one of the 3rd era WD's it even stated this.

However that comes with the flip side, when used well, they're going to do really well.

By comparison Chaos Space Marines just fail due to being effectively ignored for too long. Orks also suffer, I always thought they should be too random to play consistently, but worse case should cause a lot of collateral damage. Akaka 50% chance of it going all wrong, but killing friend and foe etc etc.

Orks, Sisters, CSM, Tyranids from my impressions.

Harlequins. Devastating if played well, a wet smear on the table that doesn't even warrant being called a 'speedbump' otherwise.

I would say IG , chaos marines and dark eldar tend to just fail even if your playing at your best. But IG if you play smart you can win games most people thought hopeless. They are weak and tough at the same time and require a lot of tactical thinking.

Dark Eldar WERE made to be the hard faction until they were gutted. Now DE are able to be defeated by CSM and their formations easily.

The Homoneclus Covens is slightly better but with formations CSM will wreck them. DE suck so bad.

 Bi'ios wrote:
Dark Eldar (it's their thing), Stormtroopers (like marines, but squishy), Deathwatch (not enough bodies), Harlequins (like DE, but punchier).

At least, that's my opinion

Literally this.

Dark Eldar
Sisters of Battle
Chaos Daemons

In that order.

Why did you leave Chaos Daemons off the poll? Thjey are one of the hardest armies to run because of all the book keeping and psychic management

You know what makes me angry our only good unit the Grotesque is 30 canadian dollars for a single model. Some lists require 6-10 of him. Ugh.

 Gamgee wrote:
You know what makes me angry our only good unit the Grotesque is 30 canadian dollars for a single model. Some lists require 6-10 of him. Ugh.

You could use some modeling and painting skills to convert them for cheaper

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
You know what makes me angry our only good unit the Grotesque is 30 canadian dollars for a single model. Some lists require 6-10 of him. Ugh.

You could use some modeling and painting skills to convert them for cheaper

I could if I had that kind of time. Which I don't. I also don't have the cash for them. I'll wait for the new DE update whenever it happens. Hopefully for the end times sometime soon. If it fixes us up and gives more list diversity back outside of spamming the Grotesquerie with allies I'll stick around. If not I'll sell my start collecting and dex and put it towards something I need or Necrons.

 Gamgee wrote:
You know what makes me angry our only good unit the Grotesque is 30 canadian dollars for a single model. Some lists require 6-10 of him. Ugh.

Try Mek Gunz Fielded in units of 5 for $46 a pop Or to put it another way, $230 for a unit that is worth about 90points

Ugh that makes me sick to the stomach thinking of how over priced they are.

And let me tell you how wonderful those models are in regards to durability. Probably one of only three complaints I have about the Ork Model line at the moment is the fact that a number of our models have a bunch of bits and pieces that stick out badly and are easily destroyed. The other complaints are price and no update for certain models.

Orks obviously.

Every single negative modifier in the game affects orks, so you better remember ALL of them.

Fear. Tank shock. Pinning. Insane heroism. Open topped. Random allocation. Leadership. Combat wounds, challenges, Sweeping advances. IGNORES COVER, overwatch, wall of death, no escape, SOUL BLAZE, blast templates, dangerous terrain, slow and purposeful, and any characteristic tests.

On top of that, we also get to remove our own models with Mob Rule.

Skitarii - Half-Army syndrome, like Harlequins and Stormies, but with an absurd amount of rules and tidbits to forget about.

Even with checklists, I still forget about something. Chordclaws going AP 2 in the 2nd round of combat? Pfft.
Oh, but when your checklist does sing true, worlds will crumble.

I'd say the top list is awarded by DE since as many say, they've been built with this objective in mind.

Then, i vote IG. IG because you have to have everything cooperating closely, and failing to this rule condemns you too annihilation as your troopers are very squishy and your tanks unable to survive a charge or outflankling alone.

The csm and the orks have serious issues in their codex that get them out of the elegible ones: them being unforgiving isn't due to their design but a total absence of fixing. In fact they don't belong to the same category.

Putting a vote down for CSM, as to win a game you have to bring their best units and make absolutely perfect plays, even against some of the weaker armies.

If it wasn't for Eldar's proliferation of scatterbikes, WK, OP Formations and D weapons, I'd put a vote down for them - games get rather awkward to play without having to maximise each unit's potential, especially at lower points.Playing KT without D or Jetbikes or Scatterlasers quickly becomes an exercise in avoiding enemy firepower.

 Gamgee wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
You know what makes me angry our only good unit the Grotesque is 30 canadian dollars for a single model. Some lists require 6-10 of him. Ugh.

You could use some modeling and painting skills to convert them for cheaper

I could if I had that kind of time. Which I don't. I also don't have the cash for them. I'll wait for the new DE update whenever it happens. Hopefully for the end times sometime soon. If it fixes us up and gives more list diversity back outside of spamming the Grotesquerie with allies I'll stick around. If not I'll sell my start collecting and dex and put it towards something I need or Necrons.

Converting Confrontation Wulfen or Skaven Rat Ogres is literally faster than building the official model. And they cost $1-$10 a model by comparison.

Only Necrons and Vanilla marines have no votes as hard mode.

Someone out there actually thinks that Tau is a difficult army to play as...

 Selym wrote:
Only Necrons and Vanilla marines have no votes as hard mode.

Someone out there actually thinks that Tau is a difficult army to play as...

Maybe if you go for a Kroot list?

 Selym wrote:
Only Necrons and Vanilla marines have no votes as hard mode.

Someone out there actually thinks that Tau is a difficult army to play as...

Obviously. Necrons won't die and Space Marines are just pure cheese.

Tau could be considered hard if the player wishes to engage in the assault phase for actual combat

To be honest, i find it harder to play orks than harlequins. Harlequins have speed, great psy powers and melee weapons worth a damn. And orks are a melee army that's afraid of melee.

Not enough rep for Nids here. Outside of Flyrants, the codex has no bite and everything is short range. Also, Instinctive Behavior makes all your stuff run away when your opponent snipes your (mostly fragile) synapse units. I don't think I can represent my saltiness strongly enough through text-based means.

 Jimsolo wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
You know what makes me angry our only good unit the Grotesque is 30 canadian dollars for a single model. Some lists require 6-10 of him. Ugh.

You could use some modeling and painting skills to convert them for cheaper

I could if I had that kind of time. Which I don't. I also don't have the cash for them. I'll wait for the new DE update whenever it happens. Hopefully for the end times sometime soon. If it fixes us up and gives more list diversity back outside of spamming the Grotesquerie with allies I'll stick around. If not I'll sell my start collecting and dex and put it towards something I need or Necrons.

Converting Confrontation Wulfen or Skaven Rat Ogres is literally faster than building the official model. And they cost $1-$10 a model by comparison.

I'll look into it.

Orks, Nids, and BA getting votes pretty much because they're UP, or something else?
What I've seen of Nids, seems easy enough to bubble wrap the big guys with Gaunts. Whenever I've seen Nids lose, it's due to tactical numpties.

I suppose Cult Mech has no votes because everyone pretty much ignores the Electropriests. They're tricky sods to make effective, that's for sure, but the rest is very easy to use.

 koooaei wrote:
To be honest, i find it harder to play orks than harlequins. Harlequins have speed, great psy powers and melee weapons worth a damn. And orks are a melee army that's afraid of melee.

But are 15ppm (base, more like 23 with a good weapon), for T3 5++.
They do have things to get them to melee (where indeed they can kill stuff), like psychic powers and assault vehicles.
But they're so squishy that the game can change in an instant. If your opponent gets a decent round of shooting (and I'm not talking about insane stuff, any str 3 rapid fire puts a dent in harlequins), they vanish and you loose the game.

That being said, I'm not sure there's really any hard mode in 40K at all. Most armies have very specific builds that can be played in a straightforward manner.
Usually, at the end of a game, you're not thinking "if only I did that very specific thing differently, maybe the game would have been different", but you're thinking "if only I made this 3+ roll, things would have been different".