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Hey guys! I am new to 30k and had a question regarding how to build an army. I was under the impression that 30k was for big giant thematic games but after reading Book 2: Massacre I am left scratching my head. For example in 40k I can bring three predators and have them count as one heavy slot, or three contemptors (Angels of Death supp) for the same. I can bring 8 bikes and an attack bike and have it count as one fast attack slot, as another example. But in Massacre each tank occupies an entire slot. Wtf! Am I going to have to field specific formations in order to get my tanks onto a 30k battlefield, or do the same 40k grouping rules apply in 30k too? Please help because the entire reason I got into 40k was to eventually play 30k and now I'm afraid I have bought and painted nine kinds of plastic that I won't be able to field!

I am almost positive the predator tanks are a squadron and same for the siege tanks (Medusa and whirlwind tanks). Also, look into other ways to fill heavy slots like Terminator squads tanking Spartans or some squads grabbing Landraiders as transports.

 EmperorsChampion wrote:
I am almost positive the predator tanks are a squadron and same for the siege tanks (Medusa and whirlwind tanks). Also, look into other ways to fill heavy slots like Terminator squads tanking Spartans or some squads grabbing Landraiders as transports.

By squadron do you mean formation?

As for the rest, that's what's frustrating. It appears in 40k you can bring several more units to the table due to groups only filling one slot. So there isn't anything that says otherwise? In Book 1, maybe?

SolidOakie, do you have the Forge World Red Books? The Legion Unit Entries are different from the black books (updates, errata, etc.). You really want this book: https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/The-Horus-heresy-legiones-Astartes-Age-of-Darkness-Army-List

And you want this book: https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/The-Horus-Heresy-Legiones-Astartes-Age-of-Darkness-Legions

There are no formations in 30K, and only a couple Detachments, with the common one being the Crusade Force Organization Chart, 1 HQ and 2 Troops, plus up to 2 more HQ, 4 more Troops, 4 Elites, 3 Fast Attack, 3 Heavy Support, 1 Fortification, and 1 Lord of War. There is also the allies Detachments that you can take in addition to your primary detachment: 1 HQ, 1 Troop, +1 more troop, 1 Elite, 1 Fast Attack, and 1 Heavy Support.

Most of the vehicles and walkers in 30K can be fielded in a squadron of usually 1-3 models, taking up one slot on the Force Organization chart. For example, you can field 1-3 Predator Tanks in a Squadron that will take up only one Heavy Support choice.

Rites of War are like army wide special rules that can also affect what you can take and how they fill up the Force Org chart. It sounds complicated, but really, you have Legion Specific Rules, you have Rites of War, and then you have the benefits from the Detachment rules.

 Tamwulf wrote:
SolidOakie, do you have the Forge World Red Books? The Legion Unit Entries are different from the black books (updates, errata, etc.). You really want this book: https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/The-Horus-heresy-legiones-Astartes-Age-of-Darkness-Army-List

And you want this book: https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/The-Horus-Heresy-Legiones-Astartes-Age-of-Darkness-Legions

There are no formations in 30K, and only a couple Detachments, with the common one being the Crusade Force Organization Chart, 1 HQ and 2 Troops, plus up to 2 more HQ, 4 more Troops, 4 Elites, 3 Fast Attack, 3 Heavy Support, 1 Fortification, and 1 Lord of War. There is also the allies Detachments that you can take in addition to your primary detachment: 1 HQ, 1 Troop, +1 more troop, 1 Elite, 1 Fast Attack, and 1 Heavy Support.

Most of the vehicles and walkers in 30K can be fielded in a squadron of usually 1-3 models, taking up one slot on the Force Organization chart. For example, you can field 1-3 Predator Tanks in a Squadron that will take up only one Heavy Support choice.

Rites of War are like army wide special rules that can also affect what you can take and how they fill up the Force Org chart. It sounds complicated, but really, you have Legion Specific Rules, you have Rites of War, and then you have the benefits from the Detachment rules.

Thank you!!! That is a relief. I was hoping there were some rules written somewhere I hadn't seen yet. I will get the red books for sure, I guess I got ahead of myself by driving into Book 2 first. My buddy bought it because he is a salamander and I am a night lord. Anyway, thanks a lot for your thorough response!!!

Addendum: Vehicle squadrons are around in 30k, but the Bike/Attack Bike mixed unit isn't. You get squads of 3-10 Bikes, and squads of 1-5 Attack Bikes as a separate choice.

So most of the stuff you might get that works in 40k will work, but there are still a few things you can't replicate.

Fear not, young heretic! ROW are, at least I think, a more tempered version of formations. It gives you alternate list crafting abilities to play with in a ~~balanced fashion while not creating stupidly broken combinations. The ROW rules are a lot more simple to remember/understand than formation rules in 40k.

Predator's can be taken in squadrons. As such, you could have up to 9 predators on the table, without a Right of War. With certain Rights of War, you could take Predator squadrons as troop choices.

Tactical Marine squads can have as many as 20 marines. You can bring squadrons of Land Raiders.

30K is set up to allow those big crazy battles. Hell, I'm doing a 12k per side game tomorrow, and I have 6,000 points in a single Age of Darkness list.