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I'm rather curious about the rules for this stuff.
They already have a bolt pistol and bolter (and I'm running them with bolters) so by giving them an 'additional combat blade' I'll get an extra attack per model thus bumping them up to 2 attacks?
Does that also mean I could choose to shoot the bolt pistols so I can charge even if I've got them modelled with bolters?

Yes and yes so good if you want to get into the combat.

Can't comment on is it good since I have yet to play. Current tacticals don't have one though. Maybe I get some in future. Do have veteran tacticals with that though.

Wow that's actually really good. For a 10 man tac squad that means 30 attacks on the charge. Couple that with rad grenades (Death Guard legion and their rite of war) then you've got a pretty potent force with 30pts of upgrades right there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
However, would it be worth using those 20-40pts (depending on the size of the squad) on something more dedicated to close combat?

Drapyon wrote:
Wow that's actually really good. For a 10 man tac squad that means 30 attacks on the charge. Couple that with rad grenades (Death Guard legion and their rite of war) then you've got a pretty potent force with 30pts of upgrades right there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
However, would it be worth using those 20-40pts (depending on the size of the squad) on something more dedicated to close combat?

Nah, the several dozen points spent to buff your tacticals are all good. Especially with Death Guard, where it is also very fluffy to kit your average joes to handle everything. If you're also running the tacticals with apothecaries ("the 21st men", as they are called), you will receive more benefits from your guys being able to dish out more attacks.

That was my train of thought; making them as mortarian intended (a fleshy multi tool). I'm currently running two 10 man tac squads with apothecaries to grab those objectives and stick around on them for a while thanks to 'feel no pain' but I have plans to bump them up to 20 man squads for a 2500pts army just for that pure epicness of seeing 42 models swarm up the board covered by ten man heavy support squads with missile lauchers (plus good old morty).

The extra attacks really makes them hit hard though and 30 attacks even from a 10 man squad will pretty much deal with anything (especially with the -1 toughness)

30 attacks, hitting on 4's, wounding on 3's, saving on 3's is ~3.33 dead MEQ, half that for TEQ. I wouldn't exactly call that dealing with anything, though since you only lose 0.83 - 1.66 depending on the other 10 man tacticals having combat blades or not, you could sweep them.

Against anything more combat oriented than ASM or another similar sized tac squad, you're going to be underwhelmed I suspect.

Actually that's a fair point tbh. Plus that's excluding the randomness of the dice. Additionally the more I think about it, are death guard marines using "the reaping" rite of war actually ever going to be in the position to charge? I mean, the rite of war stops them running which means they aren't as likely to get into anythings face any time soon

Depends on the legion. Raven guard for example can start 20 guys on your front porch. Tacs with the extra CCW are the cheapest s4 attacks in the game. Add a chaplain, now you are fearless with re roll to hit.

Not having to buy transport makes it very viable, although the grenade FAQ really takes the teeth out of the tank hunting

speaking as a DG player who mainly uses mass infantry: bump them up to 20-man squads with extra CCWs. Even with the reaping you will still get into CC.

20 marines on the charge is ~61 swings, or ~15 wounds on marines before saves, even more if you factor in rad grenades. With the reaping, I tend to loose 2 or 4 marines, but I'm in CC by turn 3 at the latest, though generally turn 2.

I do it all the time on my emperor's children squads. 60 attacks on the charge at I5 is really good. i even charge into termies and win just on weight of dice. throw a praetor in there that is hitting at I6 or I7 if you challenge and you can decapitate most things.

So basically, the bigger the unit the more effective having that extra attack is? That would make sense mathematically but on those smaller 10 man squads do you reckon its worth it? I mean, they would pack more of a punch than a standard tac squad, especially on the charge but those 20-40 pts spent could go towards giving them a rhino or giving another squad an artificer armoured sergeant and another piece or wargear for example (I know the rhino isn't very thematic for a DG army, I just want to see the extra combat blades usefulness).
Currently I'm running two squads of 10 tac marines, sergeant with artificer armour, powerfist and rad grenades and then an apothecary in both squads (mainly because I have those built at the moment)

I'd say with the lack of ATSKNF, combined with Fearless/Stubborn being relatively rare, giving yourself extra opportunities to win combat is a good investment. Death Guard get a -1 to their Sweeping Advance rolls, which means you stand a higher chance of losing your entire squad because of a failed Morale Test in combat. But if you're winning combat, even if it is only by 1 or 2 wounds, then you're not the one having to make those morale tests.

Very good point. I reckon then they are worth the points

As a Sons of Horus player, the extra CCW is a MUST TAKE for the Tactical Squads. I also run them as 20 model squads with an Apothecary. I've taken on 5 model Terminator units and wiped them out in two turns of CC. Turn 1- I charge, they can't overwatch, because Terminators (Catapharactii Terminators). I get around 15 models engaged, meaning 45 close combat attacks on initiative 4- about 25 usually hit, 12-13 wounds, they lose 2-3 Termy's. Then, on iniative 1, I get 15 more close combat attacks- 8-9 hit, 4-5 wounds, they usually lose one more. So that's 3-5 Terminators in one round of close combat. Oh, and my Sergeant finally gets to attack with his 3 power fist attacks. It really, really catches my opponents off guard how effective my Tactical Squad Blobs can be in close combat.

The best thing? I have no problems sending them at the ultra-elite killy melee deathstar- because such squads are low model count, but high points cost, much more then my Tactical Squad that will be hanging around for a couple turns tar pitting.

I play Blood Angels, so everything gets a close combat weapon.

I would never not take them, because I lose out on one of my legion perks if I don't have a close combat weapon of some kind.

Dark Angels. Everyone gets a combat blade. 2 points to hit other marines on a 3+... duh...

I will definitely be taking them for my IH 20 man tac squads. Even after losing some guys while getting across the board (which will be less than normal for me thanks to IH rules), you will still have the CC advantage over any other potential troops trying to hold objectives.