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See topic. Some guy used the vortex in a really unfair manor in my flgs, so I got some questions about the balewind vortex:

1. "if the spell is cast it does not count towards the number of spells the wizard can attempt to cast in a turn" - If my wizard can cast one spell each turn, he successfully casts the vortex, but it is unbound, can he still cast another spell or not?

2. "You and your opponent must move any models .... none within 3" of the vortex" - I guess it's mainly to show that nothing is in combat with the wizard on the vortex. I can imagine some troops backing off when a large flame carrying a platform shoots out of the ground. But what about scenery? A building is still a model. Can you use the vortex to "bounce" scenery away?

3. In my flgs some guy (maybe that guy? ) used the vortex to push his cavalary towards his opponent. The vortex must be set up "where the wizard stood", but it is much larger, so the guy got about 5 ~ 6 inch out of the "push away"-rule. Is something like that really intended?

4. If I would get one of those things for myself, would a branchwych with circlet (+6" spell range) casting unleash spites (which has a "everything within 9inch"-rule) have an effective range of 30" while casting that spell atop the vortex?

5. If i buy the vortex (which is a whooping 100 points), and i have two or more wizards, can I choose which one summons it?

6. If the answers to 4 and 5 are yes, is the vortex worth the 100 points then?

1 - That would be a good question for GW because the RAI is unclear. As it stands yes, even if it is unbound it doesn't count as a spell.

2 - Scenery isn't considered 'models' for the purposes of game rules. Note Sylvaneth Wildwood placement where it cannot be within 1" of a model or other piece of scenery. Plus, some degree of common sense is required for a number of AoS rules and obviously the vortex isn't somehow moving castles around.

3 - Intended? Maybe not. But it seems like a pretty tactical use of it, not really a TFG move.

4 - It would be your turn and so you could determine which order abilities apply, so yes 30". Going by how doubling works in... Well almost every tabletop or card game RAI is that the base range would be doubled then the 6" added for 24" total.

5 - Yes

6 - It can be, but you need to know what you're doing.

Thanks for the answers. That guy in the store actually tried to move a building out of the way summoning the vortex. Thats what started this dicussion after all

Mickmann wrote:
Thanks for the answers. That guy in the store actually tried to move a building out of the way summoning the vortex. Thats what started this dicussion after all

I will say if the vortex is summoned right next to a building such that the building would overlap the 'base' of the vortex, then some extrapolation of the rules could be needed. But the 3" bubble doesn't push back terrain.

Just to be sure.
You do have to pay 100 pts for a balewind vortex each time you cast it? As it is summoned etc

So you cannot really add it to your armylist and then just keep on casting it. It is just something to watch out for if your opponent has 100 reinforcement pts left.

As ninth said, scenery isn't classed as a model.
It would simply stay as it is.

So it is possible (fun one for you) to use the vortex on a wych with the circlet, in a wyldwood.

Value wise it depends on who your playing against.
Anyone with plenty of ranged or spells will either shoot or cast your wych to death quickly.

Against a melee force it can essentially make your caster invulnerable.



I use one in my skaven for the arch warlock as it helps loads.

A friend uses it for festus.
Which considering he regenerates and is pretty tough, it can be a pain to remove him from it.

 minisnatcher wrote:
Just to be sure.
You do have to pay 100 pts for a balewind vortex each time you cast it? As it is summoned etc

So you cannot really add it to your armylist and then just keep on casting it. It is just something to watch out for if your opponent has 100 reinforcement pts left.

Yes, each time you summon it it costs 100 pts.

Had to test it out, so me and a friend of mine did play a small 1000 point game yesterday.

My Ancient summoned a forest right next to a building, my branchwych (wearing circlet) uses spiritpaths to get there (there was no LoS, but the only thing that could shoot was his starpriest with arcane bolt).
Next turn cast vortex followed by unleash spites. Rolled two 6s and had basically the whole enemy army in the bubble. Two units of saurus guard, an eternal warden, a starpriest and a carnosaur. Thats 10 MWs. Next two turns she did 5 MWs each. We didn't get to play a fifth round.

So 100 points for beeing unchargeble, getting +1 on casting and unbind rolls and double range is worh it. Of course he could field more ranged next time (there basically was no ranged in his army), but if that means less saurus guard its still in my favour

I could even buff that setup even more. I didn't use throne of vines as it does use a casting attempt, and I didnt had the caster formation (which would have given me a second casting attempt). But having another 1d3 to your casting/unbinding rolls seems like a good idea

My friend also said that i get +1 to save because i am still in the forest, and that the wych is holding the nearby objective. I am sure about that though. I would say there was a pretty clear LoS after summoning the vortex.

Mickmann wrote:
Had to test it out, so me and a friend of mine did play a small 1000 point game yesterday.

My Ancient summoned a forest right next to a building, my branchwych (wearing circlet) uses spiritpaths to get there (there was no LoS, but the only thing that could shoot was his starpriest with arcane bolt).
Next turn cast vortex followed by unleash spites. Rolled two 6s and had basically the whole enemy army in the bubble. Two units of saurus guard, an eternal warden, a starpriest and a carnosaur. Thats 10 MWs. Next two turns she did 5 MWs each. We didn't get to play a fifth round.

So 100 points for beeing unchargeble, getting +1 on casting and unbind rolls and double range is worh it. Of course he could field more ranged next time (there basically was no ranged in his army), but if that means less saurus guard its still in my favour

I could even buff that setup even more. I didn't use throne of vines as it does use a casting attempt, and I didnt had the caster formation (which would have given me a second casting attempt). But having another 1d3 to your casting/unbinding rolls seems like a good idea

My friend also said that i get +1 to save because i am still in the forest, and that the wych is holding the nearby objective. I am sure about that though. I would say there was a pretty clear LoS after summoning the vortex.

It depends on the range the objective requires, the vertical distance counts. As for cover I could see it technically working but I think common sense and RAI are pretty clear that there wouldn't be any cover. At any rate, it is totally worth it, OP even, if it successfully casts the first time. If it fails then not only is the vortex not summoned but it counts as an attempted spell for the turn. Certainly though this risk can be well worth it in the right hands.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

Mickmann wrote:
Had to test it out, so me and a friend of mine did play a small 1000 point game yesterday.

My Ancient summoned a forest right next to a building, my branchwych (wearing circlet) uses spiritpaths to get there (there was no LoS, but the only thing that could shoot was his starpriest with arcane bolt).
Next turn cast vortex followed by unleash spites. Rolled two 6s and had basically the whole enemy army in the bubble. Two units of saurus guard, an eternal warden, a starpriest and a carnosaur. Thats 10 MWs. Next two turns she did 5 MWs each. We didn't get to play a fifth round.

So 100 points for beeing unchargeble, getting +1 on casting and unbind rolls and double range is worh it. Of course he could field more ranged next time (there basically was no ranged in his army), but if that means less saurus guard its still in my favour

I could even buff that setup even more. I didn't use throne of vines as it does use a casting attempt, and I didnt had the caster formation (which would have given me a second casting attempt). But having another 1d3 to your casting/unbinding rolls seems like a good idea

My friend also said that i get +1 to save because i am still in the forest, and that the wych is holding the nearby objective. I am sure about that though. I would say there was a pretty clear LoS after summoning the vortex.

It depends on the range the objective requires, the vertical distance counts. As for cover I could see it technically working but I think common sense and RAI are pretty clear that there wouldn't be any cover. At any rate, it is totally worth it, OP even, if it successfully casts the first time. If it fails then not only is the vortex not summoned but it counts as an attempted spell for the turn. Certainly though this risk can be well worth it in the right hands.

Don't you always get cover on top of a Balewind vortex, as you are a unit completely on a terrain feature regardless of the forest or LoS?

 minisnatcher wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

Mickmann wrote:
Had to test it out, so me and a friend of mine did play a small 1000 point game yesterday.

My Ancient summoned a forest right next to a building, my branchwych (wearing circlet) uses spiritpaths to get there (there was no LoS, but the only thing that could shoot was his starpriest with arcane bolt).
Next turn cast vortex followed by unleash spites. Rolled two 6s and had basically the whole enemy army in the bubble. Two units of saurus guard, an eternal warden, a starpriest and a carnosaur. Thats 10 MWs. Next two turns she did 5 MWs each. We didn't get to play a fifth round.

So 100 points for beeing unchargeble, getting +1 on casting and unbind rolls and double range is worh it. Of course he could field more ranged next time (there basically was no ranged in his army), but if that means less saurus guard its still in my favour

I could even buff that setup even more. I didn't use throne of vines as it does use a casting attempt, and I didnt had the caster formation (which would have given me a second casting attempt). But having another 1d3 to your casting/unbinding rolls seems like a good idea

My friend also said that i get +1 to save because i am still in the forest, and that the wych is holding the nearby objective. I am sure about that though. I would say there was a pretty clear LoS after summoning the vortex.

It depends on the range the objective requires, the vertical distance counts. As for cover I could see it technically working but I think common sense and RAI are pretty clear that there wouldn't be any cover. At any rate, it is totally worth it, OP even, if it successfully casts the first time. If it fails then not only is the vortex not summoned but it counts as an attempted spell for the turn. Certainly though this risk can be well worth it in the right hands.

Don't you always get cover on top of a Balewind vortex, as you are a unit completely on a terrain feature regardless of the forest or LoS?

Derp. I realize just now what I actually wrote. She would have cover from the vortex, but would not be in the woods which is important because of the buffs Sylvaneth gain in that regard.

In regards to number 4, I seem to remember a rule stating that multiple bonuses stack by essentially the mathematic order of operations (Multiply/Divide, Add/Subtract). I'm thinking it was in the FAQ, but I'm having trouble finding it right now. Maybe I'm just imagining it.

Scenery being a model is still a discussion point. If you check the warscrolls (https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Compendiums/warhammer-aos-scenery-en.pdf) you can see some scenery pieces being stated as a model.

The question is: does that mean all scenery are models? To which I'd say "most likely'. I play them as if they are models, at least. It's also consistent with the newer scenery kits (see Dreadhold, Realmgates, Occulum, and others).

It's probably best that GW just FAQs it, but barring that I'd point out there's a number of places in the rules that require application of common sense to function correctly. I recall a recent one brought up that Stormcast battalions including Prosecutors are technically unusable because there is no unit called just "Prosecutors" and the requirement is not indicated to be a keyword.

I have another question - can Hurricanum with battlemage summon Vortex and be placed ontop?

 ArtyomTrityak wrote:
I have another question - can Hurricanum with battlemage summon Vortex and be placed ontop?

Yes, though given the relatively short range of the hurricanum's shooting I'm more partial to doing that with luminarks

Side note: doing that with either would probably not be appropriate for casual play.

Indeed. The only wizards who can't use the Balewind are those with the Monster keyword.