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Other than they are a greedy business and know people like me will line up to buy a 50 dollar soft back because it's the new thing (or what ever the price is) can any one shine a positive light on it?

Don't get me wrong I love 8th and the new GW it just seems like it would be so much easier to keep the game up to date online then making us carry around another book.

But Lord knows they must be going broke with just the price they charge for the models

Edit to change the title for clarity

Because it’s apparently a significant amount more content than an FAQ.

Um. Because GW isn’t a charity.

Because if you're good at something, you should never do it for free.

And GW is pretty good at selling things.

M.

Why aren't all the models free too?

That'd be so much easier...

Lord-celestent Putin wrote:
Why aren't all the models free too?

That'd be so much easier...

Only if they gave them to me painted and based

I get what he is saying... and I agree. Why isnt the book with the rebalanced points update free and the rest off the book a pay if you want the extra rules seperate. It should be. The yearly rebalance and points cost should be seperate and free. An easy free pdf to adjust things as codexes come out.

Why is it not Free ?

It's a printed book with new content.

Charging for rules has always seems like a really idiotic thing when its often the rules that help drive sales. Before Decurion was a thing you rarely saw tomb blades being bought or used but once 7th edition Necrons dropped those fugly bikes where sold out for weeks if not months. Sure you can sell a fancy book with lore, artwork, model pictures, rules, etc in it because a lot of people like having a book to reference/browse. But also allow veteran and newbie alike to download/print a PDF or EPUB file of the rules so they can easily start up a new army or just have all the rules they need to play the zoggin game. Its especially bad for younger players who don't have the funds to afford getting started with models and paint while also buying $100+ dollars of rules (not everyone wants to start off with a zogging space marine vs baddy space marine box set).

I really hope they release the point values for free and leave all the other goodies in there for people to buy if they want them.

Was Chapter Approved free in the first place?

Grimlineman wrote:
Other than they are a greedy business and know people like me will line up to buy a 50 dollar soft back because it's the new thing (or what ever the price is) can any one shine a positive light on it?

Don't get me wrong I love 8th and the new GW it just seems like it would be so much easier to keep the game up to date online then making us carry around another book.

But Lord knows they must be going broke with just the price they charge for the models

TLDR : «why do I have to work to earn money ?! I want everything to be free ! I hate capitalism»

 godardc wrote:

Grimlineman wrote:
Other than they are a greedy business and know people like me will line up to buy a 50 dollar soft back because it's the new thing (or what ever the price is) can any one shine a positive light on it?

Don't get me wrong I love 8th and the new GW it just seems like it would be so much easier to keep the game up to date online then making us carry around another book.

But Lord knows they must be going broke with just the price they charge for the models

TLDR : «why do I have to work to earn money ?! I want everything to be free ! I hate capitalism»

Not asking for everything to be free. Just don’t like paying for something twice aka rules in the same edition because they need adjusting. They should be a stand alone thing. I have no problem paying for something new if I like it. And in fact if you read my original post I said I will be standing in line to buy regardless.
I get it their a business I’m not trying to come off as entitled. I work hard for my money like I’m sure most on here do and I feel like I already paid for the rules handsomely this edition. Just My opinion but if I got to buy the rules again packaged with some other stuff I may or may not want so be it we all make descisions

This stuff costs money and time to produce. Why would it be free?

Grimlineman wrote:
Other than they are a greedy business and know people like me will line up to buy a 50 dollar soft back because it's the new thing (or what ever the price is) can any one shine a positive light on it?

Don't get me wrong I love 8th and the new GW it just seems like it would be so much easier to keep the game up to date online then making us carry around another book.

But Lord knows they must be going broke with just the price they charge for the models

Apparently you missed the memo... here are the foot notes.


- 8th is a beta set of rules being sold as a retail edition so you the player can play test the game.
- Chapter approved is a content patch.
- The upgrades to the core game system, and update patches to individual units is just easier to distribute with the content patch.

That codex thing you may have paid for, ya rough draft of ideas, don't worry we will invalidate it by 2020 just in time for 9th. Until the invest in a binder and book bag, you will need them.

GW would like to take the time to thank you. You inquisitive tester you. Game on.

clownshoes wrote:

Grimlineman wrote:
Other than they are a greedy business and know people like me will line up to buy a 50 dollar soft back because it's the new thing (or what ever the price is) can any one shine a positive light on it?

Don't get me wrong I love 8th and the new GW it just seems like it would be so much easier to keep the game up to date online then making us carry around another book.

But Lord knows they must be going broke with just the price they charge for the models

Apparently you missed the memo... here are the foot notes.


- 8th is a beta set of rules being sold as a retail edition so you the player can play test the game.
- Chapter approved is a content patch.
- The upgrades to the core game system, and update patches to individual units is just easier to distribute with the content patch.

That codex thing you may have paid for, ya rough draft of ideas, don't worry we will invalidate it by 2020 just in time for 9th. Until the invest in a binder and book bag, you will need them.

GW would like to take the time to thank you. You inquisitive tester you. Game on.

Hit the nail on the head I think. Thread can be closed now nothing left to see here.

Grimlineman wrote:

 godardc wrote:

Grimlineman wrote:
Other than they are a greedy business and know people like me will line up to buy a 50 dollar soft back because it's the new thing (or what ever the price is) can any one shine a positive light on it?

Don't get me wrong I love 8th and the new GW it just seems like it would be so much easier to keep the game up to date online then making us carry around another book.

But Lord knows they must be going broke with just the price they charge for the models

TLDR : «why do I have to work to earn money ?! I want everything to be free ! I hate capitalism»

Not asking for everything to be free. Just don’t like paying for something twice aka rules in the same edition because they need adjusting.

Twice? Ha. Index->Codex->CA 2017
Then, if you're really lucky (Hi, Space marines!), next year's Codex & CA 2018. And CA 2019.

It costs for the same reason you have to BUY GW's catalog instead of them giving catalogs away for free.

Because GW still insists on living in the 90's.

 Trade_Prince wrote:
This stuff costs money and time to produce. Why would it be free?

It's a balance patch. Nobody else makes you pay for balance patches. The new missions and stuff, sure, that can be a book you pay for, but adjustments to existing content should be free.

The other problem is book keeping and having to haul around multiple books just to play a friggin game. I'm not really a fan of it, and have always preferred games to get the rules right the first time so I don't have to constantly purchase fixes and add ons. Shadespire did it right, it's a solid and tight ruleset out of the gate, needed a minimal FAQ half of which was almost common sense stuff. 40k however is a constantly changing pile of mud and has always been so, this is why I don't like it and prefer their specialist games like Blood Bowl or Necromunda. However Necromunda is kind of irking me from the get go cause i'm already having to have a stack of two books just to play on 3d terrain. It's still not as bad as 40k has been in the past though.

I agree with the OP. I paid for the Space Marine Index, and then a month or two later had to shell out for the Space Marine Codex. To me, it feels like GW intentionally gouged me, and that killed my good faith.

As a consumer, I do expect that there is assurance of balance and stability when I buy rules,
OR that the balance and stability is a work in progress that gets updated frequently without additional fees,
OR that the rules are free.

I paid something like $80 for the Index and then again something like $80 for the codex. Let's assume that the Chapter Approved book is priced similarly (I don't know TBH), I will have paid $240 for Space Marine rules and points over a period of 6 months. That's $40 per month. It's too much.

Let's just ignore Sponge paying double the price for his index.

GW could have ignored all the player feedback for 8th and not bothered bringing out a "Chapter Approved" and then everybody would have had something else to complain about.

Because its a combined balance patch and some DLC?

FAQs are free resource - well you have to print them out but hey.

This is supposed to be a add on to the game as well as a Balancing tool. I am just glad its not something you have to have a smart phone or similar nonsense to use.

Sorcererbob wrote:
I agree with the OP. I paid for the Space Marine Index, and then a month or two later had to shell out for the Space Marine Codex. To me, it feels like GW intentionally gouged me, and that killed my good faith.

Then you're dumb. Or looking for things to complain about.
You KNEW the Index was temporary. We also KNEW that Codexes were going to be rushed out very quickly after 8th launched and common sense should have told you that Space Marines, being more popular than every other army combined would be one of the first.

If you didn't want to pay for the Index AND the Codex why did you not just wait till the Codex was out? No one was holding a gun to your minis and forcing you to buy an Index right off the bat. Don't act like you couldn't possibly have made an informed choice or jad some patience. A month or two of no games won't invalidate your entire hobby.

The idea that GW is FORCING you to buy all these books is laughable. Hey, heres an idea. Maybe have your group chip in and buy ONE copy of Chapter Approved to share. Note down then changes in pencil in your codex and then you don't need to have it on you at all times. You don't even need it for the new scenarios or deployments or anything like that because as you say, your just paying for the rules updates. Nothing else.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Because its a combined balance patch and some DLC?

FAQs are free resource - well you have to print them out but hey.

This is supposed to be a add on to the game as well as a Balancing tool. I am just glad its not something you have to have a smart phone or similar nonsense to use.

This is precisely why I would prefer a free Chapter Approved, ideally the balance pass should be as free from commercial imperatives as possible, I know this is GW so that is a nice dream. Still if it were free content there would be less reason to fiddle with stuff just for the sake of making the book look worthwhile..

 Sim-Life wrote:

Sorcererbob wrote:
I agree with the OP. I paid for the Space Marine Index, and then a month or two later had to shell out for the Space Marine Codex. To me, it feels like GW intentionally gouged me, and that killed my good faith.

Then you're dumb.

There's no need to make it personal; I'd appreciate it if you kept to the topic instead of name calling. I find your tone to be rather condescending too.

The intention from GW is that a player owns the books relevant to their army. It's on that basis that I'm making my reply, since my complaint is about GW's business practice.

The Codex dates weren't published when the Index was released. I bought the Index for the same reason as everyone else; I wanted to play the game using up to date rules and I was excited to play the new edition. The argument that I should have waited for the Codex is easy in hindsight. Imagine if I played Dark Eldar and had waited until I have a codex; I'd still be playing 7th. The frequency of updates and availability information at a point in time is GWs choice, not mine. The timing was a gimmick by GW to drive sales in my opinion.

I'm not forced to buy the content, but I enjoy the game. I want to support the developer so that they develop the game. But I don't like being gouged. Is that unreasonable?

Sorcererbob wrote:
I agree with the OP. I paid for the Space Marine Index, and then a month or two later had to shell out for the Space Marine Codex. To me, it feels like GW intentionally gouged me, and that killed my good faith.

I don't want to sound like an arsehole but you should have seen that coming. I deliberately didn't buy the Index because anyone and their dog could tell you that SMs were getting their codex very soon after release, and I'm fairly sure GW actually said that was the case.

Sorcererbob wrote:

I paid something like $80 for the Index and then again something like $80 for the codex. Let's assume that the Chapter Approved book is priced similarly (I don't know TBH), I will have paid $240 for Space Marine rules and points over a period of 6 months. That's $40 per month. It's too much.

What, you want them to give you printed books for free? The're a business, they've printed some books, and they're now offering them to you at a price that is profitable to them, like any other business would. And let's be clear, Chapter approved is not an FAQ, which they have been giving for free, as they should, and it is not the same as a patch to a video game, it's a set of additional rules you can opt to use if you want to buy the book.

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:

Sorcererbob wrote:
I agree with the OP. I paid for the Space Marine Index, and then a month or two later had to shell out for the Space Marine Codex. To me, it feels like GW intentionally gouged me, and that killed my good faith.

I don't want to sound like an arsehole but you should have seen that coming. I deliberately didn't buy the Index because anyone and their dog could tell you that SMs were getting their codex very soon after release, and I'm fairly sure GW actually said that was the case.

Of course that means you don't have even complete space marine rules nevermind variant chapters. Albeit maybe you would take rather IG than other marines. IG is probably better soup partner than others. But even for standard marine you would be lacking rules.

What, you want them to give you printed books for free? The're a business, they've printed some books, and they're now offering them to you at a price that is profitable to them, like any other business would. And let's be clear, Chapter approved is not an FAQ, which they have been giving for free, as they should, and it is not the same as a patch to a video game, it's a set of additional rules you can opt to use if you want to buy the book.

No but they could give the errata part for free, like many companies do, and get people by on the merit of useful stuff in there rather than mandatory errata. There's no "additional" about chapter approved if you play with points. It's mandatory.

tneva82 wrote:
Of course that means you don't have even complete space marine rules nevermind variant chapters. Albeit maybe you would take rather IG than other marines. IG is probably better soup partner than others. But even for standard marine you would be lacking rules.

Or, even stranger, I could just play an army of vanilla marines without soup. Shock horror I know.

tneva82 wrote:
No but they could give the errata part for free, like many companies do, and get people buy on the merit of useful stuff in there rather than mandatory errata. There's no "additional" about chapter approved if you play with points. It's mandatory.

It's mandatory if the people you play with force you to play with it. Or you could just say to your friends, "hey, I don't have chapter approved, can we just play without using it?" Or you could, even worse (/s), play with PL.

Grimlineman wrote:
Other than they are a greedy business and know people like me will line up to buy a 50 dollar soft back because it's the new thing (or what ever the price is) can any one shine a positive light on it?

Don't get me wrong I love 8th and the new GW it just seems like it would be so much easier to keep the game up to date online then making us carry around another book.

But Lord knows they must be going broke with just the price they charge for the models

i mean i'm not suggesting it, nor would i condone it, but there are ways to get it free.