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Hi Dakkanauts.

If rumors are right, Land Raider base, Repulsor base and Twin Lass Cannon are getting a point reduction.

Will we see them more?

Personally I have one Land Raider Crusader and still without use it in my games. With a 40 points reduction plus the other SM that will be reduced as well, I will probably give a try with my Crusader.

Of course, if rumors are correct.

What about this?

I hope so. I hate so much how many cool iconic things are never seen because they "aren't optimal"

Losing sucks, and terminators and land raiders have auto lose for a long time.

Depends on the reduction and the eventual reductions of other options. Well in that case there's not many other options if you want to transport Primaris and Terminators that's true. I'd love to have one or two Repulsors for my Repenters to act as artillery, hopefully we get the Chapter Tactics for the whole codex in the future so that they can reroll their 1s to Hit while standing still so as to not need a Master close by.

Coupled with a points reduction to Terminators, I could see my Deathwing Knights finally getting a Land Raider for delivery. Not that I like 9" charges from DS... But I don't.

And I love painting vehicles.

If the Repulsors get the 20% reduction people have discussed, I'll field them somewhat more often. I've looked at using them as a carry platform for my Aggressors in the past, just couldn't do the huge points.

A 250 points a Land Raider Crusader would be a very good option to clear infantries and reduce the drops. With SW at least it should see the table sometimes.

Wolf Guard Termies with a price drop would be very good as well. They're already ok with the right loadout and list.

There's a meta issue for these vehicles too. Knights are so common that everyone takes answers for them. Anything that kills a Knight kills a Land Raider faster. If you don't ALSO have a Knight, you're just presenting a value target for any list prepared for Knights.

 Stux wrote:
There's a meta issue for these vehicles too. Knights are so common that everyone takes answers for them. Anything that kills a Knight kills a Land Raider faster. If you don't ALSO have a Knight, you're just presenting a value target for any list prepared for Knights.

What if knights get a huge nerf with CA and orks hordes become the new scary things to counter?

 Stux wrote:
There's a meta issue for these vehicles too. Knights are so common that everyone takes answers for them. Anything that kills a Knight kills a Land Raider faster. If you don't ALSO have a Knight, you're just presenting a value target for any list prepared for Knights.

Ayup. Any armor that doesnt pack an invuln save is a liability at this point.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Blackie wrote:
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What if knights get a huge nerf with CA and orks hordes become the new scary things to counter?

While I would love to be wrong, I dont see that happening.

 Blackie wrote:

 Stux wrote:
There's a meta issue for these vehicles too. Knights are so common that everyone takes answers for them. Anything that kills a Knight kills a Land Raider faster. If you don't ALSO have a Knight, you're just presenting a value target for any list prepared for Knights.

What if knights get a huge nerf with CA and orks hordes become the new scary things to counter?

Then things will be different! If no one is building lists to deal with T8 then potentially the occasional LR might be a real pain to deal with.

I don't personally think the chances of Knights getting nerfed that hard is very likely, as much as a lot of people might want to stop seeing them!

Depending on how the new rules for cover work (and strats, chapter tactics, etc.) that might not always be true though. A land raider is much easier to get into cover than a Knight is, and if it can, that's the difference between a 1+ armor save and a 3+ armor save. Taking into account the usual 1st turn weapon of choice against Knights (which is to say Lascannon and equivalents), you're looking at 4+ save vs. the knight's 5++ invuln. Melta & equivalents usually doesn't have the range that lascannons do, and where/when they do, the save is the same 5+ vs. 5++ for knight.

So all in all that shows the Land Raider to be more durable vs. small/medium arms fire, and about AS durable against anti-tank fire, but with fewer wounds (which seems appropriate given it's going to be about 3/4 the cost of a knight after CA reductions).

 Stux wrote:
There's a meta issue for these vehicles too. Knights are so common that everyone takes answers for them. Anything that kills a Knight kills a Land Raider faster. If you don't ALSO have a Knight, you're just presenting a value target for any list prepared for Knights.

I'm going to counter this and say that there is truth, but there is also some qualifiers.

My Crusader knight is 501 points, (Battlecannon, Ironstorm Missile Pod)

2 Crusader Land Raiders deployed in cover, I believe will be tougher to kill than my knight. (1+ save for cover, 32 wounds v 24)

And I do think that the Land Raider crusaders have a few things going for them. THey are much more dedicated to the role. Running my Crusader, I'm trying to get to a spot where the battle cannon has the right type of target the Stubbers have the right targets, the Gattling has the right targets, and the Heavy Flamer can work, and that is why i general run the Iron Storm Missile pod, as it can work anywhere. The Crusader is biggest mass of infantry... go.

I don't think its a black and white as before if they go to that kind of points cost.

If they can't shoot after falling back, Land Raiders will still be worthless.

 Voidwraith wrote:
If they can't shoot after falling back, Land Raiders will still be worthless.

If they can benefit from the UM tactic, this is fixed....kind of

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 Galef wrote:

 Voidwraith wrote:
If they can't shoot after falling back, Land Raiders will still be worthless.

If they can benefit from the UM tactic, this is fixed....kind of

-

If they have chapter tactics they improve a lot. Together with points reduction.

Yeah then space wolf land raiders will get +1 to hit rolls on the charge. How amazing.

Shadowswords and Castellans will still eat your lunch. Land raiders are turned off by assault.

Sorry, until these things change, they're just a point sink.

If land raiders could fire their guns while locked in melee that'd be a different story.

I am not the most up to date on rules changes,
but doesn't a gretchin still make a land raider stuck?

 jeff white wrote:
I am not the most up to date on rules changes,
but doesn't a gretchin still make a land raider stuck?

Yes. The land raider can still fall back though, provided it isn't surrounded.

The sad thing is that it would be a really easy fix to Errata "Power of the Machine Spirit" to allow LRs to shoot after falling back.
If that happens, in tandem with a point reduction, we might start seeing LRs show up on tables

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 Galef wrote:
The sad thing is that it would be a really easy fix to Errata "Power of the Machine Spirit" to allow LRs to shoot after falling back.
If that happens, in tandem with a point reduction, we might start seeing LRs show up on tables

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The problem this would change the rule it self. Well, repulsor still can fall back and shoot because of his "fly". With point reduction at leat the repulsor will be a "Little bit" usable.

Maybe Land Raiders needs a new rule likes "Mostodontic" or "Untoppable" to allow a fall back and shoot.

In my case if the rumor of the reduction is correct I will give it some times a try.

 Marmatag wrote:
Yeah then space wolf land raiders will get +1 to hit rolls on the charge. How amazing.

Shadowswords and Castellans will still eat your lunch. Land raiders are turned off by assault.

Sorry, until these things change, they're just a point sink.

If land raiders could fire their guns while locked in melee that'd be a different story.

Yeah totally agree. Repulsors are immune to this though. How much are they dropping? 40 points?

I'm gonna use a repulsor to keep d00ds away from my land raider.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
Yeah then space wolf land raiders will get +1 to hit rolls on the charge. How amazing.

Shadowswords and Castellans will still eat your lunch. Land raiders are turned off by assault.

Sorry, until these things change, they're just a point sink.

If land raiders could fire their guns while locked in melee that'd be a different story.

Yeah totally agree. Repulsors are immune to this though. How much are they dropping? 40 points?

repulsor base 25 pts.? And maybe other weapons drop point, so we can adjust his cost. Only problem for me is still 3+ save.

Yeah it aint hard to kill. Since I go twin las on the repuslor that would be a 35 point drop. So about an 8% drop....Come on man.

Lastalons will hopefully drop too, otherwise they become dumb. That puts it at 45pts drop.

 grouchoben wrote:
Lastalons will hopefully drop too, otherwise they become dumb. That puts it at 45pts drop.

Well lastalon drop too would be nice. But they you need to drop the Avenger too. No reason LT should be less than that weapon.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 grouchoben wrote:
Lastalons will hopefully drop too, otherwise they become dumb. That puts it at 45pts drop.

Well lastalon drop too would be nice. But they you need to drop the Avenger too. No reason LT should be less than that weapon.

There will be a lot of weapons reduced. Many times we had spoken about the high Price of our weapons compared to other factions and being very very similar.

I want CA now. Can't wait to see how far the SM buff goes. Not much, but nothing is less.

Also LS will get a point reduction of 20 going down to 60 instead of 80 with HB. That will do them more interesting. But still rumors.

An all the Dakka Repulsor is over 350 points. if it ended up less than 275 I think it would be a deal.

Reemule wrote:
An all the Dakka Repulsor is over 350 points. if it ended up less than 275 I think it would be a deal.

Less than 275 it would be an auto take.

I just picked up a repulsor (50% off) and hope that both the LR and it get buffed rules & points wise.