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Seems appropriate that there should be a specific thread to all things Ynnari. Based on the May White Dwarf preview, it would appear that we are getting ...

• 17 stratagems (replacing SFD as we know it and potentially precluding Ynnari detachments from accessing strats from other Aeldari codex books??)
• 6 Warlord Traits
• 6 Relics
• 6 Tactical Objectives
• 6 Revenant discipline psychic powers

Might as well get the discussions going. Personally, having played Ynnari since 7th edition, I'm a little burnt out from the playstyle and I'm hoping the index infuses some new interesting dynamics into the overall playstyle while not straying too far from the SFD mechanics. Perhaps, the death of a unit within [x number of inches] would allow for a stratagem to be played in some instances.

Curious to see if these stratagems would fully replace the stratagems found within the existing Aeldari faction codices as well. What are you anticipating (hoping for) and will you be playing Ynnari or moving over to one or more of the codex Aeldari factions?


Couple of thumbs of how i've run my Ynnari lists over the years (not in the typical crimson and yes I know it's blasphemy to run them with Coven units as well ... )

When fracture of Biel Tan came out I was excited with the path of the army since I play Iyanden and Harlequins. i played a few games (maybe 2), and then ever since they have been altered rules-wise with every CA and FAQ, I've lost any interest in playing them as I no longer knew what the rules were for the faction.
I'm hoping this new index brings back my passion for wanting to play the faction, not for power play, but for thematic games where I won't be TFG for playing with cool models.

 wannabmoy wrote:
Curious to see if these stratagems would fully replace the stratagems found within the existing Aeldari faction codices as well. What are you anticipating (hoping for) and will you be playing Ynnari or moving over to one or more of the codex Aeldari factions?

Are there any ynnari specific stratagems in existing codexes? Those might be reprinted and slightly altered but other than that no. Instead they will be bunch of new stratagems for eldar soup. Possibly affecting even non-ynnari eldars(could be pick aeldar unit... style trigger).

I adore Ynnari lore. I honestly get deeply tired of everyone bashing them.

That being said, I'm interested to see this. One thing we probably have to assume is that they will change how a detachment is made ynnari. 6 warlord traits is the big hint there; presumably each of the 3 will get one always included, but what about the other 3? They would require a non-named character.

I think the writing is on the wall for SFD turning into a stratagem, but then what replaces it as a chapter tactic? I think it would clever to make it look something like Epididimus from Nurgle; a table with increasing buffs per unit slain.

Will ynnari farseers get access to the full revenant discipline, since presumably they will be able to be full hq choices?

tneva82 wrote:

 wannabmoy wrote:
Curious to see if these stratagems would fully replace the stratagems found within the existing Aeldari faction codices as well. What are you anticipating (hoping for) and will you be playing Ynnari or moving over to one or more of the codex Aeldari factions?

Are there any ynnari specific stratagems in existing codexes? Those might be reprinted and slightly altered but other than that no. Instead they will be bunch of new stratagems for eldar soup. Possibly affecting even non-ynnari eldars(could be pick aeldar unit... style trigger).

No WL traits, or stratagems at all for Ynnari, they are still in the Index only.

Also we dont know if those stratagems will work the way you think with soup, rumor has it soup is being nerfed, if you only have 5 CP in Soup, it wont be worth it to soup up with Ynnari

tneva82 wrote:

 wannabmoy wrote:
Curious to see if these stratagems would fully replace the stratagems found within the existing Aeldari faction codices as well. What are you anticipating (hoping for) and will you be playing Ynnari or moving over to one or more of the codex Aeldari factions?

Are there any ynnari specific stratagems in existing codexes? Those might be reprinted and slightly altered but other than that no. Instead they will be bunch of new stratagems for eldar soup. Possibly affecting even non-ynnari eldars(could be pick aeldar unit... style trigger).

As it exists, there are no "Ynnari" specific stratagems. One of the main benefits of running Ynnari is allowing a mixed Aeldari detachment that allows to maximum usage of mixed stratagems, relics, etc. (e.g. Midnight Sorrow Solitaire for No Price Too Steep with Dreaming Shadow Death Jesters for An Example Made or a Biel-Tan Spirtseer/Warlock to take the Spirit Stone of Anath'lan with Saim-Hann Shining Spears for Warriors of the Raging Winds. Other common combos are Ulthwé Guardians for Discipline of the Black Guardians with Biel-Tan Shining Spears for Court of the Young King, etc.).

I have a hunch that going forward, if you choose to make an Aeldari detachment a Ynnari detachment, you may be limited to the Ynnari index stratagems, as opposed to being able to pick and choose the best strats from the various Aeldari codex books.

Well all rumours are rumours(remember how rumours said castellan and soup is going to be nerfed hard FOR SURE in CA2018? How did that pan out?). I'm going with the how they work now. You have bunch of stratagems you unlock if you have suitable detachment and then you can use them if unit meets requirements even if they aren't from same faction. Or even same codex.

Really looking forward to this - Ynnari are currently a mess in many ways, but are thematically very interesting. They're overpowered at the moment, ruining the experience of fielding them for actual Ynnari fans. Fingers crossed for a great codex.

Well, I stayed away from Ynnari as it was too powerful in the past.
Although I'll look at the new items coming up.

What's interesting to me, is that it's very clear that GW is trying to progress the Aeldari narrative through the Ynnari. However, the same focus and effort is not directed to their representation on the table-top.

Seems like they rushed the Aeldari faction (specifically Asuryani and Ynnari) codex rollout without thinking about how this should feel.

Given that GW is big in trying to make sure each army plays and feels like it should in the lore, it may make sense for them to revist the Aeldari factions holistically towards the end of this phase 8.2 season.

I tried out ynnari for the first time yesterday (Was running yncarne because the model looks dope) and boy, i can't believe they let them have the current version of SFD for so long. Although the army is super cool flavor-wise it really needs to pay for that ability.

I've seen many people suggesting that ynnari would work like the new assassins, the problem with that is the pts difference between the models, assassins were already close pre-WD Ynnari would need serious buffing/nerfing to all become the same pts value.

I'm eager to see what they do with them, im just waiting on the WD to come out so i can decide if i want to get the trumvirate for my army.

VladimirHerzog wrote:
I tried out ynnari for the first time yesterday (Was running yncarne because the model looks dope) and boy, i can't believe they let them have the current version of SFD for so long. Although the army is super cool flavor-wise it really needs to pay for that ability.

I've seen many people suggesting that ynnari would work like the new assassins, the problem with that is the pts difference between the models, assassins were already close pre-WD Ynnari would need serious buffing/nerfing to all become the same pts value.

I'm eager to see what they do with them, im just waiting on the WD to come out so i can decide if i want to get the trumvirate for my army.

SFD has already been changed twice (maybe three times? Seem to have lost track). How do you mean that Ynnari would work like the new assassins? I’m not quite tracking there.

 wannabmoy wrote:

VladimirHerzog wrote:
I tried out ynnari for the first time yesterday (Was running yncarne because the model looks dope) and boy, i can't believe they let them have the current version of SFD for so long. Although the army is super cool flavor-wise it really needs to pay for that ability.

I've seen many people suggesting that ynnari would work like the new assassins, the problem with that is the pts difference between the models, assassins were already close pre-WD Ynnari would need serious buffing/nerfing to all become the same pts value.

I'm eager to see what they do with them, im just waiting on the WD to come out so i can decide if i want to get the trumvirate for my army.

SFD has already been changed twice (maybe three times? Seem to have lost track). How do you mean that Ynnari would work like the new assassins? I’m not quite tracking there.

oh i didnt know it got changed, still the ability is busted if after many changes this is the state they left it in.

For the assassin comparison i meant that you could pay CP at the start of the game to pick one of the 3 hqs to bring situationally (still paying pts for it in the list, but having a choice) or you could bring a special detachment with all 3 models. this is a rumor ive heard but i dont think it would actually be viable since the power level of the 3 HQs varies greatly

For clarity, the suggestion comparing the 3 Ynnari characters to Assassin has NOTHING to do with the versatility Assassins have to "pick the one you need" and FAR more to do with how to add them to your army.

Right now, the Ynnari characters need far too many special rules/conditions to be added without mucking up how detachments work (because Aeldari and Ynnari cannot be used as shared keywords for detachments). But if you could add them using a CP and have them exist "outside" your limit of 3 detachments, it works much more smoothly.
Just set aside the Reinforcement points for the character you intend to play, spend a CP, done.
Or take all 3 in a Command detachment.

Then you make Soulbursts into Stratagems and you no longer need to "trade" Army special rules/traits for Strength from Death. Again, clean and easy, yet still requires resources (CPs and likely still triggering off deaths)

-

 Galef wrote:
For clarity, the suggestion comparing the 3 Ynnari characters to Assassin has NOTHING to do with the versatility Assassins have to "pick the one you need" and FAR more to do with how to add them to your army.

Right now, the Ynnari characters need far too many special rules/conditions to be added without mucking up how detachments work (because Aeldari and Ynnari cannot be used as shared keywords for detachments). But if you could add them using a CP and have them exist "outside" your limit of 3 detachments, it works much more smoothly.
Just set aside the Reinforcement points for the character you intend to play, spend a CP, done.
Or take all 3 in a Command detachment.

Then you make Soulbursts into Stratagems and you no longer need to "trade" Army special rules/traits for Strength from Death. Again, clean and easy, yet still requires resources (CPs and likely still triggering off deaths)

-

I have a feeling for the index, if you choose to make a detachment a Ynnari detachment ... you might get locked into using the Ynnari specific stratagems that they are providing and locked out of the strats from the other codex books. If my hunch is correct, this could go a long way to correcting some of the brokenness of the SFD mechanic as we know it.

I agree and like your approach to it as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

VladimirHerzog wrote:

 wannabmoy wrote:

VladimirHerzog wrote:
I tried out ynnari for the first time yesterday (Was running yncarne because the model looks dope) and boy, i can't believe they let them have the current version of SFD for so long. Although the army is super cool flavor-wise it really needs to pay for that ability.

I've seen many people suggesting that ynnari would work like the new assassins, the problem with that is the pts difference between the models, assassins were already close pre-WD Ynnari would need serious buffing/nerfing to all become the same pts value.

I'm eager to see what they do with them, im just waiting on the WD to come out so i can decide if i want to get the trumvirate for my army.

SFD has already been changed twice (maybe three times? Seem to have lost track). How do you mean that Ynnari would work like the new assassins? I’m not quite tracking there.

oh i didnt know it got changed, still the ability is busted if after many changes this is the state they left it in.

For the assassin comparison i meant that you could pay CP at the start of the game to pick one of the 3 hqs to bring situationally (still paying pts for it in the list, but having a choice) or you could bring a special detachment with all 3 models. this is a rumor ive heard but i dont think it would actually be viable since the power level of the 3 HQs varies greatly

Thanks for the clarification. I'm not entirely sure that approach would gel well with Ynnari. The reinforcement points idea is interesting such that you wouldn't need to bring them in a separate detachment. I'm very curious as to see what direction GW decides to go here as there are a number of paths they can take.

So thinking about what we already know based on what's been published (and trying not to be all doom and gloom) ... it appears that Ynnariquins might still be a viable option (perhaps not with the Solitare anymore). The potential combination of Rising Crescendo with Strength from Death could be powerful pending on what stratagems, psychic powers, warlord traits, relics, etc. exist for Ynnari. The idea of being able to fallback and charge with a +1 to hit is powerful and also the ability to alternate with pseudo built-in interrupts could be very powerful and a shoe-in for moving the Yncarne into your opponent's phase early in the game.

Also, thinking about how wraithknights might also be able to benefit from SFD given the new Ynnari faction rules ...

Solitaire will have to be a separate detachment, but you can still take it, just in a stupid janky way.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Solitaire will have to be a separate detachment, but you can still take it, just in a stupid janky way.

Right! I'm already thinking that finding the optimal detachment setup will be something that will need careful consideration (as if that isn't already the case).

With current rules leaked i'm considering a Supreme command detachment with Yvraine, Autarch on bike and Skyweaver warlock (option to add a Wraithseer instead the Warlock) along a unit of Wraithblades with choice to add a Wraithknight.

Not game changing or capable to sustain turn 1 Alpha if running vs tournament armies but can be decent hammer to send against the enemy.

The strats plus psyker powers can give it an obscene durability along Wl traits buffs.


Also Wraithblades can be changed with simple Wraithguard since they already can dish quite decent melee dmg with their bare fists.

I was so hopeful that they'd give us back the ability to use Corsairs as Ynnari, but never mind. Maybe Corsairs will get the own Index Xenos.

Possibly worth running a time or two:

An Ynnari Shadowseer warlord (Lord of Rebirth) with the Lost Shroud. Give him the "Melee Doom" power and the healing power.

You now have a Warlord who can tank lots of attention and still possibly heal to full the next round. -1 to wound him, 4+ invul, halves incoming damage, and a 5+ FnP save. He heal at least 1 wound a round and d3 more via a WC 5 power.

He doesnt do much damage but he can help other Harlies to survive and help them hurt things for him. If the Shadowseer was full health already? Smite.

CP the CP farm trait to a Death Jester or something...

 Fifty wrote:
I was so hopeful that they'd give us back the ability to use Corsairs as Ynnari, but never mind. Maybe Corsairs will get the own Index Xenos.

I mean, in fairness, they'd probably be a reasonable stand-in for Corsairs. Hell, at least one of the Warlord traits looks like it was pinched right out of the First Prince powers in the Corsairs book.

Except that you can't even use them unless you include one of their vomit-inducing special characters.

Oh, I'm sorry, naturally I meant unless you include one of their vomit-inducing special characters in every detachment. Because in spite of Ynnari ostensibly being united under a single banner, you're not actually allowed to mix and match Eldar, DE and/or Harlequin units in the same detachment. Way to go, GW.

Goobi2 wrote:
d two stacked 5+ FnP saves.

You can't stack FnP saves you just take the best one available to you.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:

Goobi2 wrote:
d two stacked 5+ FnP saves.

You can't stack FnP saves you just take the best one available to you.

BRB FAQ says use both. So until that changes (soon?), they stack!



Edit.... it changed, they dont stack...

Goobi2 wrote:

Leo_the_Rat wrote:

Goobi2 wrote:
d two stacked 5+ FnP saves.

You can't stack FnP saves you just take the best one available to you.

BRB FAQ says use both. So until that changes (soon?), they stack!

No, the FAQ says this;

Page 181 – Ignoring Wounds
Add the following as a boxout on this page:
‘Ignoring Wounds
Some units have abilities that allow them to ignore the damage suffered each time it loses a wound (e.g. Disgustingly Resilient, The Flesh is Weak and Tenacious Survivor). If a model has more than one such ability, you can only use one of those abilities each time the model loses a wound.’

They don't stack.

 Burnage wrote:

Goobi2 wrote:

Leo_the_Rat wrote:

Goobi2 wrote:
d two stacked 5+ FnP saves.

You can't stack FnP saves you just take the best one available to you.

BRB FAQ says use both. So until that changes (soon?), they stack!

No, the FAQ says this;

Page 181 – Ignoring Wounds
Add the following as a boxout on this page:
‘Ignoring Wounds
Some units have abilities that allow them to ignore the damage suffered each time it loses a wound (e.g. Disgustingly Resilient, The Flesh is Weak and Tenacious Survivor). If a model has more than one such ability, you can only use one of those abilities each time the model loses a wound.’

They don't stack.

Seems I was the one looking at an out of date FAQ... No stacking currently...

Whilst all of this is pretty bad, some of it is hilariously bad.

The "A Taste For Death" stratagem, for example, gives a unit +1 to hit in melee if it kills something in the shooting phase. It will already be getting +1 to hit from strength from death, so this gives it +2. Everything already hits on 2's with a +1, except Axe wielding Wraithguard, but they can't shoot. Pointless.

The "United in Death" strat requires you to have all 3 Ynnari Characters, each leading a different Detachment from each of the 3 Aeldari races. You also need to kill a unit to trigger soulburst before the strat has any effect.

There's also possibly the worst 2 tactical objectives in the game:

"For Ynneads Glory" requires you to kill 3 units to get 1VP. With the extra limitation, that you must use Ynnari units to kill them. What?

"Soulsurge" is even worse. You have to kill 3 units with Ynnari benefiting from soulburst, so you have to have already killed one to trigger soulburst. 4 units killed, by a limited selection of units, for 1VP. What?!

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
Whilst all of this is pretty bad, some of it is hilariously bad.

The "A Taste For Death" stratagem, for example, gives a unit +1 to hit in melee if it kills something in the shooting phase. It will already be getting +1 to hit from strength from death, so this gives it +2. Everything already hits on 2's with a +1, except Axe wielding Wraithguard, but they can't shoot. Pointless.

The "United in Death" strat requires you to have all 3 Ynnari Characters, each leading a different Detachment from each of the 3 Aeldari races. You also need to kill a unit to trigger soulburst before the strat has any effect.

There's also possibly the worst 2 tactical objectives in the game:

"For Ynneads Glory" requires you to kill 3 units to get 1VP. With the extra limitation, that you must use Ynnari units to kill them. What?

"Soulsurge" is even worse. You have to kill 3 units with Ynnari benefiting from soulburst, so you have to have already killed one to trigger soulburst. 4 units killed, by a limited selection of units, for 1VP. What?!

Also, don't forget "Incubi are super important to Ynnari lore, so instead of throwing them the tiniest most microscopic bone and including them in the REBORN DRUKHARI keyword, we gave you a fething 2cp stratagem so you can maybe give this terrible unit +1WS turns 1 and 2 until it becomes moot turn 3 because they get that gak free anyway."

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh theyre in all the pictures you show of the army GW and every time someone goes "Awhaaat is this a leaked new Eldar unit what are these cool looking sword warrior fellows?????" because NOBODY HAS USED AN INCUBI IN FIVE EDITIONS.

the_scotsman wrote:

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
Whilst all of this is pretty bad, some of it is hilariously bad.

The "A Taste For Death" stratagem, for example, gives a unit +1 to hit in melee if it kills something in the shooting phase. It will already be getting +1 to hit from strength from death, so this gives it +2. Everything already hits on 2's with a +1, except Axe wielding Wraithguard, but they can't shoot. Pointless.

The "United in Death" strat requires you to have all 3 Ynnari Characters, each leading a different Detachment from each of the 3 Aeldari races. You also need to kill a unit to trigger soulburst before the strat has any effect.

There's also possibly the worst 2 tactical objectives in the game:

"For Ynneads Glory" requires you to kill 3 units to get 1VP. With the extra limitation, that you must use Ynnari units to kill them. What?

"Soulsurge" is even worse. You have to kill 3 units with Ynnari benefiting from soulburst, so you have to have already killed one to trigger soulburst. 4 units killed, by a limited selection of units, for 1VP. What?!

Also, don't forget "Incubi are super important to Ynnari lore, so instead of throwing them the tiniest most microscopic bone and including them in the REBORN DRUKHARI keyword, we gave you a fething 2cp stratagem so you can maybe give this terrible unit +1WS turns 1 and 2 until it becomes moot turn 3 because they get that gak free anyway."

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh theyre in all the pictures you show of the army GW and every time someone goes "Awhaaat is this a leaked new Eldar unit what are these cool looking sword warrior fellows?????" because NOBODY HAS USED AN INCUBI IN FIVE EDITIONS.

This gets me confused and angry at the same time and not always in that order!

I can live with not super powerful rules. But this indicates that there was no love whatsoever going into those index rules...

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
Whilst all of this is pretty bad, some of it is hilariously bad.

The "A Taste For Death" stratagem, for example, gives a unit +1 to hit in melee if it kills something in the shooting phase. It will already be getting +1 to hit from strength from death, so this gives it +2. Everything already hits on 2's

Unless they try to hit a unit which has natural -1 to hit in melee, and those exist.