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Howdy.

So what with 40k not really holding my interest that much anymore, I thought I'd jump in to 30k.

Can anyone give me some basic pointers for 30k? I'm not really sure what I need to know about the game to be honest, so any advice at all will be useful!
If it helps, I've decided on the 1st Legion and I've got both BaC and BoP boxes to get me started.


Thanks!

If you are from Australia then you might be happy to know your country must have something like the strongest HH community in the world. At least it seems so.

For sure get on facebook to join the australian community group.

For starters get:
2x10 tacticals with bolters
Dont equip lightning claws on Termies. Just give them power axes, fists and maybe some chainfists.
Best weapons for Contemptor are wither fist/assault cannon or double assault cannon.

With other miniatures you can make:
Veteran squads with combimeltas/combiplasmas
Plasmagun support squad
Missile Launcher Devastator squad

Horus Heresy uses it's own ruleset, based heavily on the Warhammer 40,000 7th ed rules. If you can find a used copy of the 7e rules, great!

While the Dark Angels rules will all be in the upcoming Forge World book "Crusade"(preorder on September 4), you'll also need the Age of Darkness: Army List book from Forge World. This will give you rules for all of your basic troops, vehicles, flyers, and so on along with generic Rites of War(these are particular ways to build your army that will give you various small bonuses).

One really important distinction for 30K is that tactical squads will all be equipped with the same weapon. The basic tactical squad is between 10-20 marines, all with bolters. You can also have tactical "support squads" of 5-10 marines, these will have all flamers, plasmaguns, meltaguns, etc.

Your veteran tactical squads are more like standard 40k marine squads, and will be able to have more varied weapon loadouts.

To start with, I'd build at least 20 marines with just boltguns, because you'll almost always need core troops units.

Snrub

like grey said 30K is basically 7th ed without the silly formations.

The great thing is, everything is good.

Each legion has legion specific special units, outside that you have a general army list.

It follows the original force org chart so you need an HQ and 2 troops to start out with.

Before you buy anything i would suggest picking a faction, if you are playing marines choose a legion as it will affect which way you go with troops


Your basic troop options are
.basic tactical squad bolter marines-up to 20, the sarg can take the usual upgrades and the entire squad can swap bolters for pistol/chain sword combo.
.breacher squad they are tac marines with boarding shields-up to 20
.tactical support squad (my favorite they can all have a variety of special weapons from rotor guns to volkite rifles but all must carry the same weapon)-max squad size of 10
recon squad-scouts with all the usual upgrades and more, start in power armor but can also go scout armor for outflank/infiltration-up to 10
.assault squad (with jump packs)-up to 20
.rhino transport-also counts as an additional troop slot
.drop pod-same as rhino
.dreadnought drop pod-same as rhino

Some armies like blood angels have builds that favor the jump infantry as troops.

For elites and heavies you get into things like destroyer squads, apothecaries, tech marines, dreadnoughts, terminator squads and so on, that does not even count all the cool 30K vehicles.
chapter specific units are things like the salamanders pyroclasts, a heavy support unit that all carry flamers that can also fire as melta pistols at 6", or the emperors children phoenix terminators.

Enjoy and welcome to 30K, it's quite a bit more enjoyable than the direction 40K is going with 9th especially if the lore represented in game is important to you (and the stratagem bloat isn't).

Its interesting that Primaris squads mimic the legion squad loadout style (everyone except for the Sgt has the same weapon).

How much flak would someone get for fielding regular firstborn 40K marines as a HH army? Assuming that one mostly sticks to the classic units of course (tac/assault squads, rhinos, landraiders, landspeeders, whirlwinds, drop pods) If one could make an army that would be legal for both 30K as well as 40K, that'd be a win-win for me personally. Ideally, all I'd need to do is to swap the special and heavy weapons models to std squadmembers to switch from 40K to 30K so I'd just build a few extra trooper models. So missile launchers, combiplasma, plasma, melta and flamers are all viable weapons in both systems?

My army is going to be predominantly made out of Mk IV & Mk VI marines, so theoretically could exist during HH as well.. What about terminators, only cataprachtii and tartaros termies allowed?

depends on your player group, that's exactly what i did for my salamanders since we are a pretty casual group. although i did buy some MKIV tac and assault marines from FW a while ago just because i wanted the minis,

The points costs are quite a bit cheaper than 40K, with some weapons loadouts slightly different so you can get in quite a few interesting units,


My 2k list for salamanders looks like this, using mostly pre-8th ed 40K models and a few 30K ones.

HQ
.cassian draco-the brey'arth progenitor

Troops
.tac support squad (10) volkite culverins
.assault squad (10)

ELITE
.mortis dreadnought
.tech marine

FAST
.storm eagle gunship
.land speeder typhoon (they are actually AV 11/11/10 in HH-win!)
.attack bike squad with autocannons

HEAVY
.land raider achillies
.legion whirlwind scorpius

26 "infantry" and 6 vehicles, not bad for 2k points.

Its interesting that Primaris squads mimic the legion squad loadout style (everyone except for the Sgt has the same weapon).

I blame Guilliman, he came back to life and realized doing it legion style was better than his silly codex astartes.

 tauist wrote:

How much flak would someone get for fielding regular firstborn 40K marines as a HH army? Assuming that one mostly sticks to the classic units of course (tac/assault squads, rhinos, landraiders, landspeeders, whirlwinds, drop pods) If one could make an army that would be legal for both 30K as well as 40K, that'd be a win-win for me personally. Ideally, all I'd need to do is to swap the special and heavy weapons models to std squadmembers to switch from 40K to 30K so I'd just build a few extra trooper models. So missile launchers, combiplasma, plasma, melta and flamers are all viable weapons in both systems?

My army is going to be predominantly made out of Mk IV & Mk VI marines, so theoretically could exist during HH as well.. What about terminators, only cataprachtii and tartaros termies allowed?

That's fine. I'm not sure what you mean with "regular firstborn 40K marines", since GW makes the plastic Mk3 and Mk4 squads. Those are both good to go for 30k. Mk6 if I remember right was very late stage Horus Heresy, just before the Siege of Terra basically. For terminators, the current terminator variant existed as well, it just doesn't have any particular rules like Tartaros and Cataphractii do. Just make sure you carve off the Crux Terminatus bits, since, you know, the Emperor wasn't "dead" at that point.

Yes, missile launchers, combi-plasma, plasma, melta, and flamers are all viable weapons in both systems. Missile launcher squads are heavy support squads, again note that each marine will have the same weapon. Same goes for plasma- and meltaguns as well as flamers. Combi-plasma is an option that veterans can take.

Note that the only Whirlwind option is the Whirlwind Scorpius, and that Predators in 30k can't take lascannon turrets.

On the topic of using models in Horus Heresy: frankly, if all you had were current space marine tactical squads with a mix of armor marks that may not have been present in the Heresy, but were super excited to get in some games of 30K, I'd still be more than happy to play against you.While I personally really appreciate the "historical future wargame" aspect of Horus Heresy, the game is a niche wargame with an already small playerbase and anything that gets new people excited in playing is fine by me. Our FLGS has a Salamanders player that I've told multiple times that if he wants to play 30K, he's more than free to use his Primaris marines as proxies. Again, for me it's all about driving up interest in the game and setting and getting more bodies at the gaming table to play.

The 30k community is small enough that we can't afford to turn away potential players just because they may not have the proper armor marks on their marines or the right Forge World tank for the time period. I want everyone with an interest in 30k to feel welcome when they walk up and ask what game is being played.

It's worth noting that the regular whirlwind is available in the horus heresy - it's one of the options in the Legion Artillery Tank Squadron (but is typically not taken since it competes with Medusas and Earthshakers)

 Mr. Grey wrote:
...Note that the only Whirlwind option is the Whirlwind Scorpius, and that Predators in 30k can't take lascannon turrets...

For a more comprehensive list:

HQs:
30k has way more options/configurations than 40k, every plastic firstborn HQ works fine in 30k and you will have to convert some options.

Elites:
All three patterns of Terminator armour work; you tend to see more Cataphractii/Tartaros because the stock Indomitus-pattern armour is slightly worse than just taking Tartaros. There's only one "Terminator squad" unit entry rather than the assault/tactical divide, and some weapon options are Legion-specific (assault cannons are IF/BA only, storm shields are IF/Salamanders only). I'll also note here that it's generally better in 30k to mix powerfists and power weapons in your Terminator squads so you may want to do some hand swapping.

Veterans: There is no generic "Vanguard Veteran" unit, you can imitate the loadout of some Legion-specific units with them but the kit isn't that useful. Similarly Sternguard Veterans in 30k are a Fast Attack choice called "Seekers", but are probably better built out of other kits unless you're really enthusiastic about massed combi-weapons.

Dreadnaughts: The Castaferrum and Contemptor plastic kits work fine, but there are weapon options for both you can't get in plastic, so you may want to do some arm-swapping here.

Apothecaries are a special choice where you take 1-3 as an Elites choice and then tack them on to other squads. You can't take standard Apothecaries in Terminator armour (you need the HQ apothecary for that) but Apothecaries out of other command squad kits are very helpful.

The Thunderfire Cannon technically works as a quad-launcher Rapier, but it isn't actually cheaper than buying Forge World Rapiers.

Troops:
Tacticals work fine as Tacticals, but your basic Troops can't take heavy/special weapons. Veteran Tacticals are organized like 40k Tacticals but can't have all the Heavy options, otherwise your special/heavy weapons are grouped together into Tactical Support/Heavy Support squads.

Scouts are called "Recon squads"; they can't have the heavy weapon option but otherwise have access to all the same kit. Note that the plastic Scouts are wearing carapace armour and Legion Recon squads have the option to keep their power armour and become a bit less stealthy.

Fast Attack:
Bikes and Attack Bikes work pretty much as-written; Legion Outriders don't have the option to take special weapons in the squads but do have the option to replace the bike-mounted boltguns with special weapons, which is quite a conversion project unless you're using Black Knights. Similarly Land Speeders are pretty much the same thing but have a few more options, the Typhoon launcher doesn't exist (the model would make a good Havoc launcher, though), and the assault cannon is Legion-specific.

Assault Marines are a Troops choice and tend to be better used in very large quantities.

Flyers:
Nope. None of the 40k flyers were around in 30k. You may be able to use them as the base for some conversions if you really want to (a Storm Eagle is a hull-extension conversion kit for a Stormraven with no dorsal turret, for instance).

Heavy Support:
Predators (no lascannon turrets, but all the Baal turret options), the LR Phobos (standard lascannon/HB load), Vindicators, and Whirlwinds can all be used in 30k.

Devastators in 30k are "Heavy Support squads" with 5-10 models, all with the same heavy weapon, so while you can use the 40k Devastator squad box it'll be more expensive than taking standard squads and getting heavy weapon bits. The standard five options (lascannon, heavy bolter, missile launcher, multi-melta, plasma cannon) are all available, but the grav-cannon is not and there are also volkite weapons and autocannons that don't have 40k parts.

Transports:
Rhinos and Drop Pods work as-is (but you can't casually splash Drop Pods, if you're using them you need to be playing a full pod-army)


As to Chapter-specific stuff:
BA: Sanguinary Guard are just Dawnbreakers. Death Company have the stuff to be built as a variety of different units. The Baal Predator's options are mostly available to regular Predators (assault cannon turret is BA only, but melta/flamer turrets are general) so you can use the kit with other Legions. The Furioso/DC Dreadnaughts don't have weapon options that do specific things in 30k, but you can use the body and swap weapons if you think it looks cool (unfortunately the Thousand Sons are the only Legion with a psyker Dreadnaught at the moment).
Space Wolves: The Grey Hunter/Blood Claws squad is a good source of pistol/chainsword arms if you're building melee Tacticals in any Legion. Wulfen are larger/more flamboyant than FW Deathsworn but do pretty much the same things with very similar equipment. Wolf Guard Terminators work fine as SW Terminators, but Vargyr are supposed to be Cataphractii so probably stick to normal Terminators, and you can't use all loadouts. The SW Dreadnaught's unique equipment doesn't do anything specific in 30k but you can use the model as a base and swap weapons around.
Dark Angels: The airplanes and the special Land Speeders aren't chassis that exist in 30k. You can't necessarily use all loadouts for the Terminators, but they give you a lot of parts you might want if you're building a Terminator-centric army (ex. parts for a Terminator Primus Medicae or Herald); similarly you can't necessarily use all the parts in the bike kit but it gives you plasma-bikes for plasma-armed Outriders and look really cool for building a bike-centric army.

AnomanderRake

Looking at my legion army list book, much of what you said is incorrect.

there are 2 kinds of land speeders for example-the standard ones are AV 10/10/10 with limited weapons options like the havoc launchers

the javelin class attack speeders are AV 11/11/10 and have access to the cyclone missile launcher and other heavier weapons.

you also forgot elite choices like tech marines, and tactical fire support squads(nothing says horde slaying like 10 tac marines armed with rotor guns), and breacher squads for troops choices.

Flyers are very much available in the form of primaris lightning strike fighters, ceastus assault ram, raptor gunships and storm eagle gunships

Land raider options include proteus, phobos, achillies and spartan.


Aside from the legion specific rules you need to get the crusade army book for a general options list of units and their rules.

I'm in a very fortunate position where I never actually built my main space marine army yet. So far I've managed to play my 40K games with a combination of monopose marines from various 40K starters and just a handful of metal / plastic stuff I've gathered over the years. The majority of my stuff is still unassembled grey plastic blutac'd together. For some reason, I always hesitated building the kits because I didn't have a clear idea on what to do with them..

So now that I've finally decided exactly how I want to build my "proper army" (heavily Rogue Trader / 2nd ed 40K era inspired), I think I will try to build everything to be as 30K compatible as possible. This will ensure that the core of my army will still be a viable force for 30K if the firstborn are ever legended from 40K. All this info on the units and compatibilities is very helpful, thanks.

That list was very extensive and shows most units will translate without problems as long as I steer clear of using grav weapons. That crux terminatus thing is a very regrettable issue, so I will have to get some tartaros or cataprachtii separately for 30K. Other than that its looking gravy!

Just some things to note for marines.

Upgrades - They get expensive and quick on most units, try to keep them down where possible as it’s not uncommon to end up with a ton of situational wargear that won’t get used.

Power weapons - swords in general work well.
If you want an axe but have spare points, grab the fist instead as it offers far more.
If you are going last any way you might aswell gain 2 more strength from it.
Some chapters do have much better options though.

Vehicle upgrades - if you can gain an immunity to Melta it tends to be advisable to take it.

Weapons - 30k offers a severe amount of shooting and a lot tend to either be high volume of shots or a lot of low AP shots.
This is why people don’t go too heavy on unit upgrades or put all their eggs in 1 basket.
S9-10 weapons also have high value as Melta rule gets neutered quite often.

Outflank, deepstrike, scout and infiltrate are all pretty common, so you will need to pad priority targets to keep them safe from early game tricks.

Primarchs - unless you really want one dead or they are very mobile, try to pop their transports and avoid them.
Primarchs like Ferrus or Vulkan eat an insane amount of damage and keep going, so you are better off killing their transport and picking apart the army around them.
Jump pack primarchs are a pain as for the most part, they are high speed blenders.
Trying to slow them is near impossible and almost every one can kill armour too, so you can’t even pit them with a dreadnought.
If you need to slow them, either a character with the best possible ++ saves and rerolls or any tricks you can pull as it’s not an easy thing.
Sanguinius tends to cut through just about anything in his way without slowing down.

Psychic powers aren’t to be relied upon.
Unlike 40k, it’s not a massive thing in 30k and it’s risky to use.
I try to avoid it as much as possible as the backlash from failing can hurt a lot.

Terminators in general are ok, but high volumes of low AP kind of render them useless at times.
Ideally your looking at chapter specific ones with great ++ saves (firedrakes, storm shields in general etc) and if you can, multi wound.
Either take them for pure shooting like siege tyrants or pure combat with great saves and if possible, something like feel no pain on top of that.

Beware of instant death.
Eternal warrior isn’t too common in 30k, so certain weapons can cause havoc with your hero’s if they have instant death rules.
This applies massively for mechanicum who barely have any eternal warrior.

Expect to see lord of war choices.
Most people will run either a primarch or a super heavy in regular games.
Things like the falchion can cause massive damage early on.


Rites of war - these are huge and basically set how you lay out your army.
While not essential, they tend to offer big boosts with minor negative effects and restrictions.
It’s all about thinking how you want to run an army then looking at what ones are available to you.
Some armies will have basic restrictions that prevent you from using certain ones.



Read the FAQ.
There is a lot of changes and updates that have happened.
These range from minor wording changes to complete unit/character overhauls.
Magnus being the most notable ones here.

 tauist wrote:
I'm in a very fortunate position where I never actually built my main space marine army yet. So far I've managed to play my 40K games with a combination of monopose marines from various 40K starters and just a handful of metal / plastic stuff I've gathered over the years. The majority of my stuff is still unassembled grey plastic blutac'd together. For some reason, I always hesitated building the kits because I didn't have a clear idea on what to do with them..

So now that I've finally decided exactly how I want to build my "proper army" (heavily Rogue Trader / 2nd ed 40K era inspired), I think I will try to build everything to be as 30K compatible as possible. This will ensure that the core of my army will still be a viable force for 30K if the firstborn are ever legended from 40K. All this info on the units and compatibilities is very helpful, thanks.

That list was very extensive and shows most units will translate without problems as long as I steer clear of using grav weapons. That crux terminatus thing is a very regrettable issue, so I will have to get some tartaros or cataprachtii separately for 30K. Other than that its looking gravy!

Well you could always use the grav weapons as counts as volkites in the short term assuming you have enough of them.

I guess so but I'd rather buy proper volkite weapons in that case Nothing that matters is glued together yet, and actually since most of my marine kits were bought before the most recent recuts, the boxes didn't come with grav weapons in the first place.

32mm bases are OK though right?

don't know, i have all my stuff on bases from 5th edition so everything is 28mm/40mm for termis and so on.

Well i seem to remember them selling volkites along with all the other weapons swaps. i bought a bunch of FW box magazine pattern boltguns because they looked so much better.

 tauist wrote:
I guess so but I'd rather buy proper volkite weapons in that case Nothing that matters is glued together yet, and actually since most of my marine kits were bought before the most recent recuts, the boxes didn't come with grav weapons in the first place.

32mm bases are OK though right?

Yes, marines absolutely go on 32mm bases. Terminators are on 40mm.

Jackal90 wrote:
...Power weapons - swords in general work well.
If you want an axe but have spare points, grab the fist instead as it offers far more.
If you are going last any way you might aswell gain 2 more strength from it.
Some chapters do have much better options though...

Qualifier: Individually powerfists are definitely better, but there are plenty of cases where you do want to save the points and the axe does similar things. Squad leaders (particularly if you're taking smaller units) and rank-and-file Terminators should definitely at least consider axes.

Vehicle upgrades - if you can gain an immunity to Melta it tends to be advisable to take it.

Qualifier: This is meta-dependent. It tends to come in waves within playgroups; people take Armoured Ceramite so other people stop taking melta, then people start thinking "Why am I spending an extra 20pts/model?" and stop taking Armoured Ceramite, then people start taking melta again, rinse, repeat. You probably should use Armoured Ceramite just in case on things like Spartans and superheavies, but if you're taking something like a Predator it may be all right to skip it and keep the price down, depending on your play environment.

...Outflank, deepstrike, scout and infiltrate are all pretty common, so you will need to pad priority targets to keep them safe from early game tricks...

Qualifier: This depends on who you're fighting. These rules in 30k tend to be more frequently used as a large-scale strategy rather than sprinkled here or there; you can't take regular Drop Pods unless you're in the Orbital Assault RoW, for instance, so if you're going to see deepstrike you'll be able to tell from the other guy's army list (frequently just his Rite) and be able to prepare accordingly.

...Primarchs - unless you really want one dead or they are very mobile, try to pop their transports and avoid them...

Generally the only cost-effective way to fight a Primarch is with another Primarch, or a similar tier character (Scoria, Valdor). Fortunately the inverse is true, the only cost-effective target for a Primarch is generally another Primarch, so play keep-away if you can and whittle them down with shooting where possible.

...Psychic powers aren’t to be relied upon.
Unlike 40k, it’s not a massive thing in 30k and it’s risky to use.
I try to avoid it as much as possible as the backlash from failing can hurt a lot...

Qualifier: Psykers scale weirdly; if you have one psyker (if you're not playing Thousand Sons or Word Bearers that's usually all a Legion list has) the basic d6 psychic dice can actually let them get a couple of powers a turn off. The problem is that which powers you get is entirely random, so if you're using a single psyker you're generally either planning around the primaris power (so a single Librarian will almost always be Divination) or using a named character with fixed psychic capabilities (Morturg in the Death Guard, Rubio from the Knights-Errant, that kind of thing). Opinions generally differ on whether a single psyker is worth it; they can absolutely contribute if you use them, but plenty of people dislike the randomness.

...Terminators in general are ok, but high volumes of low AP kind of render them useless at times.
Ideally your looking at chapter specific ones with great ++ saves (firedrakes, storm shields in general etc) and if you can, multi wound.
Either take them for pure shooting like siege tyrants or pure combat with great saves and if possible, something like feel no pain on top of that...

As always this depends on the Legion, but standard Terminators can and do work fine if you understand the weaknesses of their 1W and don't over-upgrade them. They are vulnerable to massed AP2 or AP2 large blasts, yes, but plenty of lists will be prepared with enough AP2 to fight one deathstar unit and will be flummoxed if you can put down three or four Terminator units.

That said Terminator-based lists are always better if you have strong Legion-specific Terminators (Sekhmet, Grave Wardens, that kind of thing).

...Beware of instant death.
Eternal warrior isn’t too common in 30k, so certain weapons can cause havoc with your hero’s if they have instant death rules.
This applies massively for mechanicum who barely have any eternal warrior...

Be aware, though, that ID as a special rule is very rare; especially with the Legions you'll see Strength-based ID much more frequently. ID weapons do exist but you tend to see them on Primarch melee weapons or the like.

...Expect to see lord of war choices.
Most people will run either a primarch or a super heavy in regular games.
Things like the falchion can cause massive damage early on...

Qualifier: This is very meta-dependent. My playgroup tends to play at 2k and avoid the Lords of War, there are playgroups that default to larger games and use Lords of War all the time. It's also generally good etiquette in 30k to converse with your opponent about whether you're going to use Primarchs (especially if you want to use Primarch's Chosen to play them in too-small games).

...Rites of war - these are huge and basically set how you lay out your army.
While not essential, they tend to offer big boosts with minor negative effects and restrictions.
It’s all about thinking how you want to run an army then looking at what ones are available to you.
Some armies will have basic restrictions that prevent you from using certain ones...

Rites of War may not be essential but you can usually find one to fit almost any selection of models. Do also be aware that some named characters will let you use different units as Troops (ex. Zardu Layak as a Warlord gives you Ashen Circle in Troops), which can add extra flexibility to what Rite you're using.

...Read the FAQ.
There is a lot of changes and updates that have happened.
These range from minor wording changes to complete unit/character overhauls.
Magnus being the most notable ones here...

Seconded. Note that there's also a section of "playtest rules" which people do tend to take as official and use, it has fixed the quad-mortar (so a full Rapier battery doesn't have to resolve twelve small blasts) and a number of underwhelming units.

Thanks to everyone who's posted. I appreciate it!
Sorry I haven't got around to replying yet, just haven't had time. As there's a bit to digest here, I'll pick out a couple of specific things that I'm curious about, rather then responding to everything.

Glumy wrote:
If you are from Australia then you might be happy to know your country must have something like the strongest HH community in the world. At least it seems so.

I have heard this before, which gives me hope of finding a group to game with, which I don't really have currently.

For sure get on facebook to join the australian community group.

Little trickier as I don't have a Facebook account. But I might make a burner account just to scope out stuff like this.

 Mr. Grey wrote:
Horus Heresy uses it's own ruleset, based heavily on the Warhammer 40,000 7th ed rules. If you can find a used copy of the 7e rules, great!
While the Dark Angels rules will all be in the upcoming Forge World book "Crusade"(preorder on September 4), you'll also need the Age of Darkness: Army List book from Forge World. This will give you rules for all of your basic troops, vehicles, flyers, and so on along with generic Rites of War(these are particular ways to build your army that will give you various small bonuses).

Honestly, the books here confuse me a bit. So i've seen the terms "red books" and "black books" used before. I'm assuming that numbered books (betrayal, extermination, retribution, etc) are the black books, while everything else is a red book.
But which of them do I actually need to play the game? You mentioned Age of Darkness: Army Lists.
Do I need the 7th ed 40k Rulebook or could I use the Age of Darkness Rulebook seeing as it's page mentions having all the core rules? Or is it more of a fact that the 7th ed book is better because it's more accessible and likely cheaper yet still contains all the required info? Do I need both?
And then where does Age of Darkness Legions fit into it all? Is that a redundant version of Army Lists or something else?


A bit of an open ended question here,
Taking into account that I have the contents of BaC and BoP minus the Cataphractii Termies, which gives me...
60 Marines.
5 Tartaros.
1 Contemptor Dreadnought
1 Cataphractii Praetor
1 the chaplain dude (a Consul, I think?)
What sort of units would I be looking to add to this? More bodies, another dreadnought? A tank of some description? Stuff that's useful at all points levels or is just good to have on hand.
Now I don't know what my local 30k scene is like, so I can't say whether it's hyper-competitive or super relaxed or anywhere in between. I myself am not overly competitive. I run what I like the look of mostly, but I certainly would be against comp level play if that's what's on offer.

The "red books" are the general army list books. if you want legion specific stuff you need to get the related heresy book. i bought book 2 "massacre" because i play salamanders so i could use their special units, like dreadnought character HQ Cassian Draco.

Since you are playing marines the red book you need is "legiones astartes:crusade army list"

When it comes to your list i suggest you pick a legion before you add more, although there are many good vehicle choices that will give you the added ranged weapons you will likely need.

With 60 marines you have a host of weapon swap options if you want something other than just bog standard bolter marines.

My money is on the tactical fire support squads and the breacher squads.

 Snrub wrote:
Honestly, the books here confuse me a bit. So i've seen the terms "red books" and "black books" used before. I'm assuming that numbered books (betrayal, extermination, retribution, etc) are the black books, while everything else is a red book.
But which of them do I actually need to play the game? You mentioned Age of Darkness: Army Lists.
Do I need the 7th ed 40k Rulebook or could I use the Age of Darkness Rulebook seeing as it's page mentions having all the core rules? Or is it more of a fact that the 7th ed book is better because it's more accessible and likely cheaper yet still contains all the required info? Do I need both?
And then where does Age of Darkness Legions fit into it all? Is that a redundant version of Army Lists or something else?

The Legiones Astartes Army Book red book is an updated compilation of the core army list with units available to all Legions, current through book 6 in the main sequence.
The Age of Darkness Legions red book contains Legion-specific material for thirteen Legions (the Thousand Sons and Space Wolves are in book 7, the White Scars and Blood Angels are in book 8, and the Dark Angels have stopgap rules in book 6 but their full release is waiting for book 9) and is current through book 5.

You don't need any black books to play the game unless you're playing one of the five Legions that isn't in the Legions red book (or Custodians, Blackshields, or Daemons), but the black books do sometimes contain supplemental content available to all Legions (book 7 only had extra general stuff for the Mechanicum, but book 8 has extra Consuls and anti-psyker/daemon tools).

As to the core book the 7e rulebook is almost identical to the Age of Darkness rulebook, the only changes they made were 30k-centric weapon references and USR lists, and the nerfed replacement for Invisibility. You could get by with either so long as you're aware of the differences.

A bit of an open ended question here,
Taking into account that I have the contents of BaC and BoP minus the Cataphractii Termies, which gives me...
60 Marines.
5 Tartaros.
1 Contemptor Dreadnought
1 Cataphractii Praetor
1 the chaplain dude (a Consul, I think?)
What sort of units would I be looking to add to this? More bodies, another dreadnought? A tank of some description? Stuff that's useful at all points levels or is just good to have on hand.
Now I don't know what my local 30k scene is like, so I can't say whether it's hyper-competitive or super relaxed or anywhere in between. I myself am not overly competitive. I run what I like the look of mostly, but I certainly would be against comp level play if that's what's on offer.

This depends almost entirely on Legion, army build, and personal preference.

@OP

Yes, the red books and black books are described as thus based on the color of their covers. The black books are the super fancy, faux-leatherbound hardbacks that are $100+USD, or now also available in softback for several of them.

You mentioned that you want to play Dark Angels, so you will need:

Age of Darkness: Army List
Crusade("black book" number 9, releasing in September)
some version of the 7th edition rulebook OR the Age of Darkness rulebook

I suggested finding a cheap version of the 7th edition rules because there are some minor changes between these and the Age of Darkness rulebook, but cost of entry for Horus Heresy is already stupidly high so why not get by with a cheap eBay copy of the rules until you can spring for the actual FW rulebook?

Age of Darkness: Legions contains all the rules for many of the legions, but not all of them. If you are playing Dark Angels, you should NOT need this book. (If I'm remembering correctly, because all of your rules will be in Crusade and the Age of Darkness: Army List books.)

What's the deal with book 3 and 7 not being available in softback but the rest of them are?

Hardcover original print run probably hasn't sold out yet.