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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/10/30 16:25:39
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
I really enjoyed Agatha too, considering I wasn't expecting it to be a mucher.
I did think it floundered a bit in the final episode though, it felt very tacked on.
Episode 7 is the standout. Centres around an older character who might have been just the wise old duck in something less well written. She wins by sacrifice and cunning rather than simply energy bolts.
Last episode did leave me wondering just what Agatha’s problem was, but I’m not a parent.
Spoiler:
They hyped the horror of her son’s death for eight episodes. And yet it turned out that she asked Death for more time (which she got) and his died peacefully in his sleep. Death didn’t stick Agatha into a situation where she had to kill her son to spare him unbearable pain.
Then she just carried on murdering witches
And then the last part felt more like a drawn out after credits scene. It just felt a bit washed out after the way Ep7 was so cool.
Although I assume Agatha is planning inevitable betrayal to
Spoiler:
get her son’s soul into a new body
I was hoping for a bit more variety in the musical numbers. I got a bit tired of DTWR by the end.
I do have one question to which I suspect the answer is ‘It’s magic, innit!’
Spoiler:
I thought the twins were an illusion created by Wanda. Yet they seem to be souls. What’s up with that?
Last episode did leave me wondering just what Agatha’s problem was, but I’m not a parent.
Spoiler:
They hyped the horror of her son’s death for eight episodes. And yet it turned out that she asked Death for more time (which she got) and his died peacefully in his sleep. Death didn’t stick Agatha into a situation where she had to kill her son to spare him unbearable pain.
Then she just carried on murdering witches
Spoiler:
Agatha does mention early on that her son's death was far more mundane than everyone thinks. His death was her reason for hating Rio, but not the cause of her being an awful person... that was all her from the beginning.
I do have one question to which I suspect the answer is ‘It’s magic, innit!’
Spoiler:
I thought the twins were an illusion created by Wanda. Yet they seem to be souls. What’s up with that?
Spoiler:
In the comics, Wanda has the power to literally rewrite reality (which she does, when she wipes most of mutant-kind from existence). What she did to Westview was illusion and mind control, but presumably she put enough effort into creating her sons that they kind of stuck even after the rest of the magic was shut down.
That, or she pulled their souls from another reality, and somewhere out there in the multiverse is another Wanda wondering why the hell her kids suddenly died...
Overall enjoyed the series but I didn't really buy the "imaginary kid that was manifested by a witch had his soul latched onto a real persons recently dead body" part of it. Considering all the other stuff we roll with in series I'm not sure why that sticks out but it did. The idea she ripped souls from another universe would have worked better, considering Wanda's narrative and use of the Dark Hold.
So is Death being The Green Witch in the comics or something just in the MCU? I mostly know Death in the comics from dealing with Thanos and Deadpool and I don't recall that ever being presented.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/11/01 21:18:11
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
I don't think the green witch connection was in the comics. Rio is also different from Lady Death in that she seems more of a manifestation of Death, as opposed to the comic version with literal power to kill or resurrect at will.
Lance845 wrote: No spoilers needed for this, Wanda's kids were always real. Even in WandaVision when Monica comes out of the hex she says, no her kids are very real.
Even the stuff inside the hex. It wasn't illusions. The house wasn't built of smoke and mirrors. It was a real, physical, house.
The kids may have been made in and a part of the hex. But they were absolutely real kids.
Of course it was a real physical house as it was actually a real town with real buildings and real people but within the hex everything was distorted and manipulated. At the beginning of this series Agatha she is living in a real house but everything she is seeing isn't really how they are. She wasn't a detective, she didn't have a gun, and there wasn't an interrogation room. I also , even then, don't find Monica a reliable arbiter of reality and as well as finding much of that part of the series badly written. I took it not as Monica being literal but that the kids were absolutely real to Wanda, which wouldn't make them real outside of the hex, but would make the trauma of losing them real.
Maybe they did mean it literally but my reaction is still to say that is a stupid conceit, even within such a fantastical narrative. I can believe that she can manifest powerful illusions and mind control but I don't buy her literally creating souls and DNA out of nothing. Obviously not everyone will feel that way, and that is ok, but for me I find it a lesser part of the story that is nonsensical. Not enough to hate the whole of either, but enough to taint it somewhat.
Edit: Though throwing in magically creating babies does tie into Agatha giving birth and saying it wasn't "a spell or incantation". I wasn't 100% sure if she was referring to it being relatively quick and clean birth or if Disney was trying to imply some immaculate conception without actually saying it. I would be more likely to buy the idea that Wanda ripped two people out of another universe than just manifesting them whole cloth, and I wouldn't be any more inclined to buy Agatha being magically impregnated through sheer will either. It was probably Darth Sidious perfecting his Sith alchemy to make a Chosen One. I didn't really like that idea in The Acolyte that a bunch of witches used the Force to manifest twins either, but there is that connection now, isn't there?
I just recalled in the last episode that Agatha said “Unlike your mother—sorry, Wanda—you actually did something interesting with your power,” which makes it sound like, even if she manifested them or pulled them from elsewhere, Wanda of Wandavision isn't actually their mother. She could also be referencing him not actually having a mother, being something just conjured up.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2024/11/02 10:58:26
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
I took that bit about his mother to be the fact that he has been living William’s life for several years and feels genuine affection for his “biological parents”. Plus the fact that Wanda effectively abandoned him and Tommy (although for good reason).
Zed wrote: *All statements reflect my opinion at this moment. if some sort of pretty new model gets released (or if I change my mind at random) I reserve the right to jump on any bandwagon at will.
Jadenim wrote: I took that bit about his mother to be the fact that he has been living William’s life for several years and feels genuine affection for his “biological parents”. Plus the fact that Wanda effectively abandoned him and Tommy (although for good reason).
Yes that's how I interpreted it. He thinks of himself as both William and Billy, and he thinks of William's parents as mum and dad, rather than Wanda and Vision.
Jadenim wrote: I took that bit about his mother to be the fact that he has been living William’s life for several years and feels genuine affection for his “biological parents”. Plus the fact that Wanda effectively abandoned him and Tommy (although for good reason).
I agree that is the most likely possibility, but I could see Disney also using that as a hook for other seasons/story lines.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
I enjoyed Agatha overall but I'm not sure the final episode works too well. There are some vital elements in there as far as the wider plot goes, but the whole thing felt a little bit laboured and very much like an afterthought. Maybe there was a way to weave the key parts of it into the last episode or two instead.
Lance845 wrote: No spoilers needed for this, Wanda's kids were always real. Even in WandaVision when Monica comes out of the hex she says, no her kids are very real.
Even the stuff inside the hex. It wasn't illusions. The house wasn't built of smoke and mirrors. It was a real, physical, house.
The kids may have been made in and a part of the hex. But they were absolutely real kids.
Of course it was a real physical house as it was actually a real town with real buildings and real people but within the hex everything was distorted and manipulated.
Wanda's house outside of the hex is just some foundation. The walls, the furniture, the stairs. All of that was created with her magic. Agatha says the Scarlet Witch is a being of spontaneous creation. Creation. Not illusion. She didn't just turn one thing into another thing. She also made things from nothing.
For example. The westview Vision. Built of actual vibranium (SWORD on the outside of the hex were tracking visions movements by following the vibraniums energy signature) the Vision we saw for most of the show was a construct built from no raw material. Made manifest by Wanda entirely.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/11/03 14:30:28
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
Lance845 wrote: Wanda's house outside of the hex is just some foundation. The walls, the furniture, the stairs. All of that was created with her magic. Agatha says the Scarlet Witch is a being of spontaneous creation. Creation. Not illusion. She didn't just turn one thing into another thing. She also made things from nothing.
For example. The westview Vision. Built of actual vibranium (SWORD on the outside of the hex were tracking visions movements by following the vibraniums energy signature) the Vision we saw for most of the show was a construct built from no raw material. Made manifest by Wanda entirely.
But when it all went away wasn't it just the foundation again? Maybe I need to go back and watch the last few episodes again but on the other hand I'm not sure it is that important tbh. You could be right and she manifested actual plywood, drywall, and children's souls but that is just more nonsense I balk at. Lifelike "simulation" where people believe something is real because their mind says it is I can get behind but going a further step to them making real children out of nothing is just immersion breaking for me.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
We don't know that they were created from 'nothing' though... Their MCU origin is fairly similar to their comics birth, where Wanda created them from magic. But then it later turned out that they were actually born from shards of the demon Mephisto's soul. When he decided he wanted his bits back, they were seemingly wiped from existence, only to reincarnate in new bodies.
It wouldn't be too surprising if that Mephisto link gets explored in the MCU later on. Or, they might just leave it as is. Either way, a reality-warping witch creating children from pure magic isn't really that out there compared to the rest of the MCU.
Lance845 wrote: Wanda's house outside of the hex is just some foundation. The walls, the furniture, the stairs. All of that was created with her magic. Agatha says the Scarlet Witch is a being of spontaneous creation. Creation. Not illusion. She didn't just turn one thing into another thing. She also made things from nothing.
For example. The westview Vision. Built of actual vibranium (SWORD on the outside of the hex were tracking visions movements by following the vibraniums energy signature) the Vision we saw for most of the show was a construct built from no raw material. Made manifest by Wanda entirely.
But when it all went away wasn't it just the foundation again? Maybe I need to go back and watch the last few episodes again but on the other hand I'm not sure it is that important tbh. You could be right and she manifested actual plywood, drywall, and children's souls but that is just more nonsense I balk at. Lifelike "simulation" where people believe something is real because their mind says it is I can get behind but going a further step to them making real children out of nothing is just immersion breaking for me.
Yes. It was back to foundation when the hex ended. The difference, I think, is in manifesting inanimate objects and manifesting living beings. Or more specifically... she didn't rewrite reality to spontaneously create 2 kids. She rewrote reality so that she was pregnant. She actually gave birth to 2 actual living things. The fact that their physicality was tied to the hex didn't change that they were living things born and alive. When their bodies were broken down by the hex breaking down their souls still existed.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
