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Bully Boyz strats exclusively targeting Nobz and MANZ pretty much forces that list to be what it is. There's some solid options for Warboss heavy options in the double WAAAGH! but they really lose out only having access to generic strats.

Green Tide is similiar. Boyz being the only Boyz means that list is always going to look like that.

Squighogs are in a weird place. I'm really glad they got the change they did, but the new unit ends up costing too much, despite the PPM being lower.

Squiggasaurs have similar issues. The generic one is fine, but doesn't have any great synergies. Ultimately it just feels like 250 for BSB+BeastBoss in a Trukk does the same thing as 4 Hogs and a Saur.

I haven't decided yet, but I think Moz might be better on his own as a distraction Carnifex. He's absolutely terrifying when he gets in, but doubling his cost for ablative wounds he gives no real buffs to is pretty disappointing.

Won a small RTT where i went 3-0 with Bully Boys.

List was:
2x grots
1x Boyz
1x Beast snagga boys with beastboss

2x5 Nobz with powerklaws and warboss
2x5 MANZ with twin killsaws and warboss in mega armor (tellyporta on one)
1x5 MANZ with killsaw/powerklaw with Ghaz and makari
1x5 Stormboyz

1x Battlewagon with ard case, everything you can put on it and a zapp gun, to retain 22 embarking slots
2x Trukks

I played against Blood Angels, Chaos Space Marines (Renegade raiders) and unending swarm tyranids.

Hardest battle by far was blood angels, where as the rest were actually cake walks. Chaos space marine should have an advantage by also having transports with legionnaires/Chosen, forge fiends and venomcrawlers, but he messed up big time. I also feel like unending swarm messed up a decent amount but i was a bit afraid of whether or not I could chew my way through all those models.

Either way, I went (WTC score) 13-7 against Blood angels, 18-2 against Chaos Space Marines, and 17-3 against Unending swarm.

Bully boys is really good. And while Ghaz often didnt get in to combat, he was a big "No go Zone" all around him so i felt like he did well even if he is slow. Over all, great detatchment, which will sadly mean nerfs for Mega Nobz i think. I just dont hope they become more expensive, because you can only use stratagems and MANZ and Nobz, and if they make us take even fewer MANZ that means less units to use stratagems on with Bully Boyz, which would be.. stupid. If they make MANZ more expensive, the stratagems should definitely be able to be used on warbosses too. I hope they just attemt to go "5+++" rather than a "4+++" as a balance point. Because more expensive MANZ just mess up many things, not necessarily for bully boyz, but for every other detatchment. They would also see more varied lists if suddenly warbosses could use stratagems too. I wouldnt be forced to get Nobz and MANZ. Maybe more beastsnagga boys with Beastbosses or squighogs would be more relevant too.

While i would pay 35 points for a mega Nob in bully boyz, im not sure i would outside of it. Because anyone not playing bullyboyz, only get that FNP in 50% of the battles they fight, namely those they went first. If you go second, odds are, your FNP will never be a thing. So paying 35 points for a buff that is never relevant, isnt great.

It's more likely that MANz recieve a minor nerf while some of the bully boyz stratagems get hit to bring the detachment back in line with green tide, wartribe and dreadmob.

I've not played any 10th. Seeing the Green Tide is back has me wondering.

What is the maximum number of Ork boys one could put in a green tide list? For like a fun game with a friend so the list wouldn't exactly need to be optimal but thematic.

 warhead01 wrote:
I've not played any 10th. Seeing the Green Tide is back has me wondering.

What is the maximum number of Ork boys one could put in a green tide list? For like a fun game with a friend so the list wouldn't exactly need to be optimal but thematic.

The detachment specifies Boyz specifically so the answer is the max of 6 Battleline units that top out at 20 a piece for 120 Boyz to eat up 1020 points. Most people attach 3 Warbosses and 3 Painboyz and 1-2 Weirdboyz to the mix.

They don't really benefit from the detachment, but if your goal is to literally just spam Boyz, you can technically fill out the rest with the Beast Snagga variety. 3 20 man and 3 10 man would come to 945. Unfortunately the cheapest character to be a warlord is 45, so you'd probably have to drop a squad of them somewhere.

If you want to go full meme, you can run 80 Snagga Boys, 120 Boys, 20 Grots and a Weirdboy for 1990 points.

Would you win with it? Probably not.

Is it just dumb and fun? Yes.

Thank you for the insight.

I'm not thrilled with only being allowed 120 Ork boys in a list. Never cared for the Snagga boys. Dislike the models. Not gaming right now so I can't justify finding cool 3rd party boys to proxy the bill for that unit.

My first reaction to the Snaggas was what about a kan and dread wall in their place. I used to run kans, dread and boys in my lists all the time.

Anyway, thank you for the replies.

Kan wall is best suited for Dreadmob attachments, which I know Jidmah has been using a lot lately. I haven't really used Kans much to be honest.

I quite like a 3 Klaw Dread as a distraction carnifex, or coming in from reserves to clean up a hard target.

Yeah, unfortunately Kanz aren't cheap enough to really spam in other detachments and don't have enough oomph in their baseline datasheet to really be able to carry themselves well without the stratagem/detachment rules support from Dred Mob. They also don't really mix that well with Boyz since it gives an easy target for the medium/heavy anti-tank guns that your opponent might have rather than having them waste it on 1W boyz.

Yeah, generally speaking with Orks you want to pick one thing and just lean waaaaay into it. Kanz work best when they're surrounded by other Kan-like units that take similar amounts of punishment. Kanz, Dreads, Nauts, etc.

Based on general statlines I could see them being added as a midfield support unit to a Bully Boyz list that leans into MANz and Hogs, but you're probably better using Flash Gitz for ranged support there.

But yeah, just go all in on your main unit type and pick some support units to go with to fill gaps.

Check the last CI https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-10th-leviathans-last-orders/

There was a big parade of various green tides on German Super Major from pure infantry to mechanized version. Check the lists there!

And btw for everybody - those who said there was not so much green tide because of “have not enough boyz” or “maybe it' s too much work to play so many boyz, clock will kill you.” - well, all problems solved, it seems greentide definitely works

 Tomsug wrote:

There was a big parade of various green tides on German Super Major from pure infantry to mechanized version. Check the lists there!

Forgive me if this is obvious, I'm quite sleep deprived, but where is the mechanised Green Tide list? I can see one that has a single kill rig, but that's it.

 Jidmah wrote:
It's more likely that MANz recieve a minor nerf while some of the bully boyz stratagems get hit to bring the detachment back in line with green tide, wartribe and dreadmob.

I still see +10ppm which will put them on the pricey side but playable. And the loss of 150pts hurts bullyboys immensely since they lose about 2 units for scoring.

 Afrodactyl wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:

There was a big parade of various green tides on German Super Major from pure infantry to mechanized version. Check the lists there!

Forgive me if this is obvious, I'm quite sleep deprived, but where is the mechanised Green Tide list? I can see one that has a single kill rig, but that's it.

I don't think it's just you, I believe that list called the "techy green tide" which might have been misconstrued as mechanized instead of just "teched" up for the current meta.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

gungo wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
It's more likely that MANz recieve a minor nerf while some of the bully boyz stratagems get hit to bring the detachment back in line with green tide, wartribe and dreadmob.

I still see +10ppm which will put them on the pricey side but playable. And the loss of 150pts hurts bullyboys immensely since they lose about 2 units for scoring.

I still need to get a game in with Bully Boyz in their prime before the nerf comes in, when is the next balance dataslate supposed to come out again?

 Grimskul wrote:

 Afrodactyl wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:

There was a big parade of various green tides on German Super Major from pure infantry to mechanized version. Check the lists there!

Forgive me if this is obvious, I'm quite sleep deprived, but where is the mechanised Green Tide list? I can see one that has a single kill rig, but that's it.

I don't think it's just you, I believe that list called the "techy green tide" which might have been misconstrued as mechanized instead of just "teched" up for the current meta.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

gungo wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
It's more likely that MANz recieve a minor nerf while some of the bully boyz stratagems get hit to bring the detachment back in line with green tide, wartribe and dreadmob.

I still see +10ppm which will put them on the pricey side but playable. And the loss of 150pts hurts bullyboys immensely since they lose about 2 units for scoring.

I still need to get a game in with Bully Boyz in their prime before the nerf comes in, when is the next balance dataslate supposed to come out again?

I think the next 45 minutes or so. Best get to it

anyone checked the new mission pack? There is a lot of focus in battleline and actions

I think it has potential to shape meta. Some of them are easy to do if the opponent fails to bring battleline.. There is also some + that benefit it for having them.

Thought's?

Great.. a double nerf for Mega Nobz. 5+++ during the waaagh AND a 10+ point increase.

In a detatchment where you can already only use stratagems on nobz and mega nobz, they should have at least added warbosses to the stratagem list, to make up for the fact, that many will take maybe only 2 units of MANZ.


Also MANZ are only useful in bully boys now. they seem super duper dead in any other detatchment. Imagine paying 40 points for MANZ in a normal detatchment, and you get turn 2, thus gaining nothing from the waaagh.

Thats fething sad. I get they need nerfs but it always goes wrong when they double down on nerfs.


Edit:
Abilities triggering on the waaagh also dont trigger if you were in a transport at the time. So now MANZ units dont even get the FNP if they started in a transport, warbosses dont get extra attacks and warboss in mega armor dont get +1 damage..

What the hell is wrong with GW? Thats completely out of line. and we still pay 40 points for MANZ now? Christ on a stick

Dataslate

Yeesh, they really didnt hold back for orks when it comes to nerfs. Like BeardedDragon said, this means meganobz are basically DOA for anything not Bully Boyz. I would have just settled for a 5+ FNP.

Green Tide fares a little better but a bit annoying again they reduced it to a 6+ invuln AND they increased the support costs of units like Painboyz and Weirdboyz.

Sucks I wasn't able to get that game in time before the changes since it was cancelled but I can live vicariously through old BR I guess

Beardedragon wrote:
Great.. a double nerf for Mega Nobz. 5+++ during the waaagh AND a 10+ point increase.

In a detatchment where you can already only use stratagems on nobz and mega nobz, they should have at least added warbosses to the stratagem list, to make up for the fact, that many will take maybe only 2 units of MANZ.


Also MANZ are only useful in bully boys now. they seem super duper dead in any other detatchment. Imagine paying 40 points for MANZ in a normal detatchment, and you get turn 2, thus gaining nothing from the waaagh.

Thats fething sad. I get they need nerfs but it always goes wrong when they double down on nerfs.

Ouch yeah.. well it is what it is, I was thinking of this, GW always overreacts.. the 5 was enough the 10+pts was overkill... like you mentioned, outside bully boyz their effectively dead. They will pop up with gahz but I get the feeling this is completely community driven.

Well i don't know but i just acquired 9 and i probably not going to use them much now. Well I will try and paint, been too busy for games. Also green tide got a hit which was predictable, that one feels a lot more fair.

Well nobz are back on the menu lol.

MANz will likely remain somewhat viable outside of Bully Boyz, they're just not as splashable as they were. 1 big brick to anchor the midboard is still a viable niche for them to fill. They're just not an auto-pick unit anymore for the other detachments, which is likely to be fairly healthy for the game, and list diversity in general.

I will say that the 10ppm increase is probably too much. I would have pushed for 5ppm at most if I were on the rules team, ultimately they're just a fairly slow moving melee threat unless you're investing even more points into transports for them. And that's ignoring the obligatory characters for the unit as well. The main issue with MANz was the +++ after all, which has been addressed. They'll likely go back down in points next time round.

Green Tide nerfs look sensible. They were a gear check list that bordered on obnoxious, and they look like they'll be fairly healthy after the rules adjustments.

There is no way in hell that im paying 40 points for a Mega Nob, that dont have a FNP in 50% of the battles outside of bully boys because i didnt get first turn.

And theres even LESS of a chance i will bring them, knowing that the turn i DID cast a waaagh, they were in a transport, thus removing their FNP ability.

So essentially you wont ever bring MANZ outside of bullyboys.

EDIT:
I have probably understood that ruling wrong. warbosses and warboss in mega armor surely dont get their extra attacks/Damage when starting in a transport, but i think the MANZ units still get their FNP.


But i still dont see MANZ outside of bully boyz. But i would still use them in bully boyz.

Btw Tomsug, there are extra changes announced on the community page.

Changes to core rules:
movement
free stratagem abilities
tank shock
mortal wounds and devastating wounds

Yeah, I feel tank shock is the most relevant for us, now that it's based on toughness and no longer weapon strength, since it means Trukks with wrecking balls can't reliably pop 3-4 mortal wounds on enemy units to chip damage off on near-dead/depleted units.

Movement is a bit more relevant I think for Gorkanauts/Morkanauts where sometimes the overhang from the arms can clip buildings, so good to hear we can move through some tight spaces.

Free strats thankfully seem largely a non-Ork issue since we only have the one for Heroic Intervention from the Beastboss on Squigosaur.

 Grimskul wrote:
Yeesh, they really didnt hold back for orks when it comes to nerfs. Like BeardedDragon said, this means meganobz are basically DOA for anything not Bully Boyz. I would have just settled for a 5+ FNP.

Green Tide fares a little better but a bit annoying again they reduced it to a 6+ invuln AND they increased the support costs of units like Painboyz and Weirdboyz.

Sucks I wasn't able to get that game in time before the changes since it was cancelled but I can live vicariously through old BR I guess

I see the opposite.. manz are fine.. in bullyboys that’s 150pt nerf.. they didn’t touch the warboss in mega armor or regular warboss. The 4+ fnp to 5++ hurts but not a huge deal.. the 150pts means you lose obj secured unit or 2. That’s a little hard to deal with but playable.. biggest nerf is the fact your nobs with warboss better not be in a transport turn 2 for the Waagh because your warboss losses 3 atks. A unit of manz in warhorde with ghaz are fine as well.. mostly useless in greentide though (goodbye reroll 1s)

Greentide was hammered.. I doubt it’s competitive anymore.. going from 5+ invul to 6+ when under 10 fine.. 2x Strats becoming less reliable ouch but ok… +10 pts on all painboys and weirdboy basically makes painboys useless outside greentide.. (and why nuke the painboss it was already horrible since beastsnaggas get 6+ fnp already) BUT losing the reroll 1 on armor on ALL orks makes greentide much worse and was the only reason to take a unit of now expensive manz with bigmek in mega armor. and the final kicker throwing this detachment out of competitive is secondary missions that max out just for playing against greentide or multiple 20+ sized units. Greentide had 1 strategy surviving and winning by points.. take away a bunch of survival abilites and making it harder to win by points? Ya this detachment is dead.

Bullyboys will still be competitive but it looks like warhorde is the best detachment again.

With how secondaries are scored now, and with secret missions allow armies to ignore Main VP untill turn 5, loosing those units is massive for Bully boys, and on top of that Manz now die alot easier.
So Bully boys is dead in competative

Another one…

 Tomsug wrote:
Another one…

That part's pretty lame, I kinda see why mechanically speaking why it might not work but it doesn't make sense that being in a Trukk somehow neuters a Warboss from getting his extra attack's that turn because that means you have to expose him/telegraph even harder for the Warboss to get the buff that he pays for on his datasheet for an ostensibly once per game ability.

 Grimskul wrote:

Free strats thankfully seem largely a non-Ork issue since we only have the one for Heroic Intervention from the Beastboss on Squigosaur.

Funny enough this is still free as the cost of the strat went down.

 LunarSol wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

Free strats thankfully seem largely a non-Ork issue since we only have the one for Heroic Intervention from the Beastboss on Squigosaur.

Funny enough this is still free as the cost of the strat went down.

So it is! The more things change, the more things stay the same haha.