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Can I get clarification on what points values to use for the Orks? If the army book came out on April 27th, and the 1.8 points update came out April 25th, I'd assume I should be using the army book points. But the 1.8 points update clearly had the army book in mind since it has the detachments, updated unit sizes etc. Also, the points in the army book seem pretty high. I know this was asked before, but I've been looking around for clarification and am getting conflicting answers; some say use the book, some say use the 1.8 points update, some say a points update is coming, but that might have meant the 1.8 update. I'm using the army book for now since it's the latest release.

As you said the munitorum field, was clearly written with the codex in mind so I think we can use It without any problems.

 Apocros wrote:
Can I get clarification on what points values to use for the Orks? If the army book came out on April 27th, and the 1.8 points update came out April 25th, I'd assume I should be using the army book points. But the 1.8 points update clearly had the army book in mind since it has the detachments, updated unit sizes etc. Also, the points in the army book seem pretty high. I know this was asked before, but I've been looking around for clarification and am getting conflicting answers; some say use the book, some say use the 1.8 points update, some say a points update is coming, but that might have meant the 1.8 update. I'm using the army book for now since it's the latest release.

For all 10th edition codices, past and future ones, there is a digital release with the actual points when the codex goes on sale.

GW even posts an article saying so for every single codex.

The points printed into the books have no relevance whatsoever unless you live under a rock and/or have no access to the internet.

Truth be told, the only people confused by this are people who still mistake dakkadakka for a source of 40k news.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Apocros wrote:
Can I get clarification on what points values to use for the Orks? If the army book came out on April 27th, and the 1.8 points update came out April 25th, I'd assume I should be using the army book points. But the 1.8 points update clearly had the army book in mind since it has the detachments, updated unit sizes etc. Also, the points in the army book seem pretty high. I know this was asked before, but I've been looking around for clarification and am getting conflicting answers; some say use the book, some say use the 1.8 points update, some say a points update is coming, but that might have meant the 1.8 update. I'm using the army book for now since it's the latest release.

For all 10th edition codices, past and future ones, there is a digital release with the actual points when the codex goes on sale.

GW even posts an article saying so for every single codex.

The points printed into the books have no relevance whatsoever unless you live under a rock and/or have no access to the internet.

Truth be told, the only people confused by this are people who still mistake dakkadakka for a source of 40k news.

I wouldn't put it that harsh because I see the same question asked over and over again on other channels. As well as people posting their datasheet from Grukk from 7 years ago asking if these rules are still valid...

Having suffered through the 2nd edition Sylvaneth idiocy when GW was very specific in their "whatever points happened to reach you last" mentality.... I get it.

The good news is GW has improved on this front. They won't update points in a physical document. The current points are always the MFM and/or the app regardless of the state of releases for any given faction.

Granted, there's been some issues with pre-release codex timing (poor Tau) but hopefully GW has learned that's just not a great plan.

So just had a 2k point game against Hypercrypt Legion Necrons using Dred Mob. It was more of a tester game to let us try out new stuff without pushing too hard into cutthroat competitive lists, but overall I'm pretty happy with the detachment. You definitely have to lean into having a Gorkanaut/Stompa to take advantage of Dakka Dakka Dakka to its fullest since I feel 6 man kanz squads usually aren't in complete range of their targets with their large bases and slow movement. I was using a Stompa supported by a Mek and it took pretty much all my CP and pushing it with lethal hits to one shot a C'tan shard of the Void Dragon in shooting (lethal hits make the big shootas actually worth shooting), for a return roll of 9 mortal wounds from hazardous which was worth it IMO. The Stompa proceeded to kill the Deceiver in close combat and one shot a Monolith at range, so while I don't think its worth 800 points, it definitely feels like a proper super heavy when supported by the strats and the detachment rule. Main thing that was disappointing for me was the Lootas I put with the new Big Mek, I'm wondering if I should swap them out for a boyz squad instead with shootas to take advantage of the movement ability of the new Big Mek. Deff Dreadz didn't have many ideal targets but I think against a more conventional list they would have more to do than squat on certain objectives. Snikrot was MVP in getting me early game engage on all fronts and then behind enemy lines, so I can see him being auto take until they jack up his points.

I was able to also actually do the mission rules fairly well even though I invested a lot into the walkers, which compared to before, was really nice.

Probably going to try out either Green Tide or Bully Boyz next.

Absolutely matches my experience.

Lootas are a difficult topic. If you spend bigger shells on another unit, they are just regular lootas with slightly more hits going through. Which means that the two KMB pretty much do all the heavy lifting. They have some value when they camp on objectives, but since you want gretchin for CP (and their hilarious stratagem) anyways AND boyz can sticky objectives now, I'm not sure you actually need them outside of a backup plan in case your naut blows up early.

That said, I will always chose a SAG over the new big mek for lootas. It's 5 points less, provides the same buff and has a way better gun than the new git - even when moving. The situational re-rolls on the SAG are nice as well, plus its profile matches the KMBs for target selection.

Currently my list has 3 big meks - SAG with lootas, MA big mek with MANz and 1 KMB/drilla big mek with 20 shoota boyz.

 Jidmah wrote:
Absolutely matches my experience.

Lootas are a difficult topic. If you spend bigger shells on another unit, they are just regular lootas with slightly more hits going through. Which means that the two KMB pretty much do all the heavy lifting. They have some value when they camp on objectives, but since you want gretchin for CP (and their hilarious stratagem) anyways AND boyz can sticky objectives now, I'm not sure you actually need them outside of a backup plan in case your naut blows up early.

That said, I will always chose a SAG over the new big mek for lootas. It's 5 points less, provides the same buff and has a way better gun than the new git - even when moving. The situational re-rolls on the SAG are nice as well, plus its profile matches the KMBs for target selection.

Currently my list has 3 big meks - SAG with lootas, MA big mek with MANz and 1 KMB/drilla big mek with 20 shoota boyz.

Yeah, it was definitely a mistake to go for the new shiny of the updated Big Mek rather than the SAG, the KMK range is too short to synergize with the Lootas and the Traktor Kannon is basically a waste of time. I'll probably give lootas another go since it's been forever since I've used them.

How were the MANZ? Did you take them on foot and throw them midfield to plomp themselves on the objective? I believe you gave them kustom shootas or the kombi weapons? Were they worth keeping in terms of shooting? Just wondering if they add a dimension to the list that having more walkerz doesn't bring (besides recursion from the MA Big Mek).

I'm definitely disappointed that Bully Boyz is so lacking in enhancements and strategems outside Meganobz. Double WAAAGH is such a fun rule but those models are so flat and dated, I really have no desire to drop a bunch of cash on them beyond the 3 I bought to hide Ghaz in. :(

 LunarSol wrote:
I'm definitely disappointed that Bully Boyz is so lacking in enhancements and strategems outside Meganobz. Double WAAAGH is such a fun rule but those models are so flat and dated, I really have no desire to drop a bunch of cash on them beyond the 3 I bought to hide Ghaz in. :(

There's a decent number of alternative sculpts from third parties that look much more dynamic and orky. I have the artel ones, though those are more warboss sized tbh. And I know many people convert AOS Orruk Brutes into mega nobz.

 LunarSol wrote:
I'm definitely disappointed that Bully Boyz is so lacking in enhancements and strategems outside Meganobz. Double WAAAGH is such a fun rule but those models are so flat and dated, I really have no desire to drop a bunch of cash on them beyond the 3 I bought to hide Ghaz in. :(

I ran a 1k bully boyz last weekend.

Warboss with MA (tellyporta) with MANz, 10 Nobz w/ Warboss, and a full unit of boyz with Warboss (extra wounds) and Pain Boy and Snikrot.

Gotta have that one, two, three punch with the waagh, in my opinion. Let the opponent worry about the big bad MANz. The full Nob squad with a Warboss does the real work.

first comment. btw

Wait. You guys go for KMBs on your Lootas? i always go for Rokkits to avoid their timely death

Beardedragon wrote:
Wait. You guys go for KMBs on your Lootas? i always go for Rokkits to avoid their timely death

I think because having 3 flat shots for a total of 6 in a full squad is worth it even if they roll a 1 or 2 when you're doing the Hazardous tests since it means much more consistent damage output, particularly if you factor in rerolls when the squad usually shoots.

 Grimskul wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
I'm definitely disappointed that Bully Boyz is so lacking in enhancements and strategems outside Meganobz. Double WAAAGH is such a fun rule but those models are so flat and dated, I really have no desire to drop a bunch of cash on them beyond the 3 I bought to hide Ghaz in. :(

There's a decent number of alternative sculpts from third parties that look much more dynamic and orky. I have the artel ones, though those are more warboss sized tbh. And I know many people convert AOS Orruk Brutes into mega nobz.

Yeah, I've seen lots of nice options. I'm just weary of anything that's got a sculpt that's itching so bad to be replaced and in general try to avoid spamming things in general. More of a rule of 2 guy. Need to focus on finishing painting what I've got anyway and by then I'll see some results and get some ideas of where I should expand. Just finding some of these detachments demand a little more spam than I'd like, but War Horde is well rounded enough that I'm not really bothered.

 LunarSol wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
I'm definitely disappointed that Bully Boyz is so lacking in enhancements and strategems outside Meganobz. Double WAAAGH is such a fun rule but those models are so flat and dated, I really have no desire to drop a bunch of cash on them beyond the 3 I bought to hide Ghaz in. :(

There's a decent number of alternative sculpts from third parties that look much more dynamic and orky. I have the artel ones, though those are more warboss sized tbh. And I know many people convert AOS Orruk Brutes into mega nobz.

Yeah, I've seen lots of nice options. I'm just weary of anything that's got a sculpt that's itching so bad to be replaced and in general try to avoid spamming things in general. More of a rule of 2 guy. Need to focus on finishing painting what I've got anyway and by then I'll see some results and get some ideas of where I should expand. Just finding some of these detachments demand a little more spam than I'd like, but War Horde is well rounded enough that I'm not really bothered.

Ah gotcha. That's fair and Meganobz are an older kit at this point in time that it wouldn't surprise me if they updated it to be less modular and more focused to have a dakka/choppy dichotomy in terms of wargear (though I assume this would happen an edition or two from now, or maybe an upgrade sprue kit if they're ever added to Kill Team).

 Grimskul wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
Wait. You guys go for KMBs on your Lootas? i always go for Rokkits to avoid their timely death

I think because having 3 flat shots for a total of 6 in a full squad is worth it even if they roll a 1 or 2 when you're doing the Hazardous tests since it means much more consistent damage output, particularly if you factor in rerolls when the squad usually shoots.

Just to be sure ive understood it fully.

If my unit takes hazard tests, if the KMB dude fails, he cant give that failed roll to someone else can he? To avoid that he actually dies

You can only assign failed Hazardous tests to models with at least one Hazardous weapon.

 Grimskul wrote:
How were the MANZ? Did you take them on foot and throw them midfield to plomp themselves on the objective? I believe you gave them kustom shootas or the kombi weapons? Were they worth keeping in terms of shooting? Just wondering if they add a dimension to the list that having more walkerz doesn't bring (besides recursion from the MA Big Mek).

I gave the big mek smoky gubbins and just deployed them dead center, right on the edge of my deployment zone, no transport. An important factor for that decision was that there was big LoS blocker preventing shooting down the middle - might not have done it if the entire enemy army would have had a clear shot on them without moving.
Honestly I didn't think they would survive turn one and was mostly banking on the Mortarion effect (which I know quite well ), which means soaking most, if not all the enemies shooting to keep the rest of your army safe. My opponent saw through that and mostly ignored them T1 and instead moved two squads of berserks with concussion mauls to intercept them, which are pretty much perfect for killing MANz. I called the Waaagh! turn 2 and the FNP did it's magic, completely messing up the maul's 3 damage effectiveness (and saving them from a lot of other shooting). By the end of the Waaagh!, the center objective was mine, not only racing ahead in primaries, but also completely denying teleporter homers.

As for shootas, I went with kustom shootas. 5x6 shots per model, re-rolling ones and da button feels good enough to not bother with the marginal benefit of klaw/saw, but it's in no way reliable damage against anything durable. You roll for da button when you select a unit to shoot, which is before selecting target. So when you roll lethal hits, you can absolutely try to punch a hole into a vehicle or a monster. Plus you always have the option to pop bigger gitz if all your other options are dead or in a bad position.
So nothing to write home about, but they killed a few berserkers and harthkyn while the extra killsaw would have done nothing at all. I'm absolutely going to keep running them like this.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Beardedragon wrote:
Wait. You guys go for KMBs on your Lootas? i always go for Rokkits to avoid their timely death

More often than not, lootas only get one or two good turns of shooting. I'd rather have that turn be as good possible and a dead spanna afterwards, than rolling ones on a rokkit when it matters.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 LunarSol wrote:
Yeah, I've seen lots of nice options. I'm just weary of anything that's got a sculpt that's itching so bad to be replaced and in general try to avoid spamming things in general. More of a rule of 2 guy. Need to focus on finishing painting what I've got anyway and by then I'll see some results and get some ideas of where I should expand. Just finding some of these detachments demand a little more spam than I'd like, but War Horde is well rounded enough that I'm not really bothered.

You are aware that MANz are a fairly new kit and the cries for replacement are mostly from people who just don't like their aesthetics? They were released in the same wave as nauts, meks guns and flash gits.

Even if GW would replace them, they wouldn't look significantly different, because that's just how MANz have looked in every single piece of artwork since their inception.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Beardedragon wrote:
Just to be sure ive understood it fully.

If my unit takes hazard tests, if the KMB dude fails, he cant give that failed roll to someone else can he? To avoid that he actually dies

No, he just dies. And you don't care because he has fired his shots and most likely did way more damage to the target than you would have expect of a 10 point ork boy.
Huh, re-reading the rules, you might be onto something. If you chose da button, all weapons become hazardous, meaning you can kill off lootas when the SAG or spannas overload. Nice.

"Beardedragon wrote:
Just to be sure ive understood it fully.

If my unit takes hazard tests, if the KMB dude fails, he cant give that failed roll to someone else can he? To avoid that he actually dies

Huh, re-reading the rules, you might be onto something. If you chose da button, all weapons become hazardous, meaning you can kill off lootas when the SAG or spannas overload. Nice."

Brilliant!
I'm going to have to try that combo now!




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Quick question for the tactical group.:

As a caveat, I play pretty much only Crusade, expansion leagues, and fun games… No tournaments

I plan on using some of the legends models, specifically big Mek on the bike and/or pain boy on the bike.

It looks like running 3 (or maybe 6) bikers with a big Mek to give them the 4++ invul, or the Painboy for the 5+++ FNP,
then run them up within 9 inches, and shoot tons of dakka!

I know it will be hard to fill them all in due to the base sizes, but with the new strategies it looks like he could do some serious damage with that,

Any thoughts?

 Jidmah wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 LunarSol wrote:
Yeah, I've seen lots of nice options. I'm just weary of anything that's got a sculpt that's itching so bad to be replaced and in general try to avoid spamming things in general. More of a rule of 2 guy. Need to focus on finishing painting what I've got anyway and by then I'll see some results and get some ideas of where I should expand. Just finding some of these detachments demand a little more spam than I'd like, but War Horde is well rounded enough that I'm not really bothered.

You are aware that MANz are a fairly new kit and the cries for replacement are mostly from people who just don't like their aesthetics? They were released in the same wave as nauts, meks guns and flash gits.

Even if GW would replace them, they wouldn't look significantly different, because that's just how MANz have looked in every single piece of artwork since their inception.

I was not aware. When were they released? Looks like maybe 7th edition? Honestly, that's a lot more recent than I assumed. They're such a flat, static model I assumed they've been around since like... 5th. Appreciate the correction.

I don't mind the aesthetic at all, its just the posing. The square legs and rigid arms make them incredibly static looking. The Warboss version is a huge improvement in every way and while the whole unit doesn't need to look like that, they're currently borderline T-posed.

If you wanna look at flat models, look at the Tyranid Raveners.

Oh sheesh, i had to get them from a third party source just to get Raveners that looks somewhat amazing.

I think Mega Nobz look decent.

The Mega Nobz themselves look fine in terms of how the sculpts have aged, they're just limited to being in this weird rigid dumpy stance.

If they looked like they could actually move they'd be a great sculpt.

 LunarSol wrote:
I was not aware. When were they released? Looks like maybe 7th edition?

Yup, they were part of the wave sometimes referred to as "mek wave" which was release alongside with 7th edition's codex and the-supplement-that-shall-not-be-named.

Honestly, that's a lot more recent than I assumed. They're such a flat, static model I assumed they've been around since like... 5th. Appreciate the correction.

They are fairly detailed though, and actually come with a ton of options - including 5 of every ranged and melee weapon and the option to build the MA mek. It's an infantry squad from the golden age of GW models, and anything to replace them will be inferior in every way.

I don't mind the aesthetic at all, its just the posing. The square legs and rigid arms make them incredibly static looking. The Warboss version is a huge improvement in every way and while the whole unit doesn't need to look like that, they're currently borderline T-posed.

 Afrodactyl wrote:
The Mega Nobz themselves look fine in terms of how the sculpts have aged, they're just limited to being in this weird rigid dumpy stance.

If they looked like they could actually move they'd be a great sculpt.

You aren't wrong, but the point of MANz has always been that they pack as much armor as they can possible carry, way beyond the point where they can actually move that well in it. If they ever fall over, they literally cannot get back up without a crane lifting them, so the armor is built in a way that they just can't fall over. The weird square legs with those strange knee plates and pistons are not a sculpture's failure, but a distinguishing feature of mega-armor. You can see MANz animated in the DoW games, plus they were always super slow in past editions and were unable to get anywhere without the help of a wagon.

No one but a warboss is strong enough to fight normaly in mega-armor.

Some official MANz art:

I get it, I just wish all 3 models weren't the bottom art and at least one of them was the middle. All 3 have squared up legs and hips square to shoulder. Worse yet, all 6 arms are right angles hold to the side. If any of them angled out a bit to hold a klaw or saw like that, I'd be a lot happier with the kit. No arm variety, no differences in stance or torso twist. They all share nearly identical poses.

Huh, I have one looking like the middle one. I know for sure because it keeps grabbling my sleeve with the raised klaw and then proceeds to get flung across the table while I try to move other models

Got in my first real game with the Orks last night. Went pretty well. Brought down some big bugs with Ghaz and Nobz. Standard Boyz didn't do a whole lot but died in place of stronger things. Probably need to do some Beast Snagga upgrading in the long run though.

Nailed a bit of scrap to the first post to make it look proppa killy.

 Jidmah wrote:
Nailed a bit of scrap to the first post to make it look proppa killy.

thanks!

Does anybody give a try to any other detachements than Bully boyz and the Dread Mob?

I saw quite a few reports about Speedmob. All of them in the mood like below.. Almost no reports about War Horde, Big hunt or Green tide…

I can't see if this has been discussed in this thread yet. so hopefully this isn't a repeat question. Do you think it is better for Ghazghkull to be by himself in a battlewagon or walk across the board with a mob of meganobs? What are the pros and cons of each choice? Is one better against certain builds?

 Tomsug wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Nailed a bit of scrap to the first post to make it look proppa killy.

thanks!

Does anybody give a try to any other detachements than Bully boyz and the Dread Mob?

I saw quite a few reports about Speedmob. All of them in the mood like below.. Almost no reports about War Horde, Big hunt or Green tide…

I think it's because War Horde is still basically WAAAGH! Tribe which we've been playing with since the beginning of 10th, so we won't really see much focus on it for a while as people are trying the new toys and detachments.

For Big Hunt, I think it's partly because it requires a significant investment into Beast Snagga units which not everyone will have enough of to warrant making reports as quickly since the range is still relatively new compared to the rest of the Ork range.

Green Tide I am a bit surprised by that there isn't that much on it, though I assume it's because moving 120 boyz isn't super exciting for most people or battle reports which is why we've boiled down to Dred Mob and Bully Boyz as the main sources of Ork battle reports.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mr Nobody wrote:
I can't see if this has been discussed in this thread yet. so hopefully this isn't a repeat question. Do you think it is better for Ghazghkull to be by himself in a battlewagon or walk across the board with a mob of meganobs? What are the pros and cons of each choice? Is one better against certain builds?

Ghazghkull is definitely better with meganobz. A lot of his buffs only apply if he's joined with a unit and with Bully Boyz, you get to basically do 2-turns of run and charge for them which can mitigate their baseline slow movement. Don't forget that his unit is infantry so they can go through ruins as needed.