Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

One of the previous GW Store Birthday bags can fit a whole GW box with room to spare. Honestly its a decent bag, only downside is the straps are thin/not all that padded, but its got good solid capacity.

Pfft, like I can afford to buy enough GW product at once that I need a bag to carry it out, lol.

 Lord Damocles wrote:
I'm sure that they'll also stop producing products in China and shipping them halfway around the world as well...

In fairness, GW produce most of their product in the UK, which results in a lot less miles for European distribution. Probably about even for US distribution and worse for East Asia and Oceania though...

Although given the explosive Chinese progress in green energy, I wouldn't be surprised if Chinese production becomes significantly greener than "Western" production over the next decade. The UK has a fairly high renewable energy proportion but it isn't growing anywhere near as fast.

 BertBert wrote:

 warboss wrote:

 BertBert wrote:
People don't use backpacks these days?

Or a sled, amirite? I mean who doesn't visit the hobbystore without a trusty laundry cart!

Guess I'm what they call a "boomer" then

I think this is more of a European/American divide. Over here backpacks are for school books or camping stuff, and absolutely nothing else. We have to drive everywhere, so why bring a backpack when we have a trunk to store stuff?

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:


I think this is more of a European/American divide. Over here backpacks are for school books or camping stuff, and absolutely nothing else. We have to drive everywhere, so why bring a backpack when we have a trunk to store stuff?

Not just that. There's an element to it we can't really discuss, but by and large:
Retailers that have security officers tend to be suspicious of people walking in with backpacks or outside bags.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 BertBert wrote:
People don't use backpacks these days?

Backpacks are on the list of things people with overinflated egos refuse to use, I guess because they're associated with being in school. But to be fair, you'll be hard pressed to find one that can fit a modern GW starter box. I just tossed my first-day-of-highschool backpack that I used for 28 years as the bottom gave out, it could fit Leviathan with room to spare. The best replacement I could find is not even close.

I can easily fit boxed games in my backpack. It's my ex military Bergen. I can fit a ridiculous amount in that. Carrying it, now that's a different matter, that's why I always take one of my son's. Preferably son number 3 when he's home on leave, being a Royal Marine he has no problem carrying a heavy load. What carry a heavy bag dad? That's light compared to what he normally carries.

 The Phazer wrote:

This seems to be not having any bags to buy at all in any circumstances. And I think that sort of drop in purchase is a lot more common than you think it is, especially in certain stores like Tottenham Court Road that get a *lot* of tourist traffic.

.

Funny you say that since I have been to that store today and they did ask if I wanted a bag...

 Gene St. Ealer wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 General Kroll wrote:
That’s a shame, the GW bags are pretty high quality I always find a use for mine!

I think I originally got the one I'm still using when I bought the AoS 2.0 starter set.

Now excuse me, I need to go buy a paper straw in a plastic wrapper.

Hahaha, post of the month
Ironic that your GW bag has a longer lifespan than the models it once carried did.

Haha post of the month

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 BertBert wrote:
People don't use backpacks these days?

Backpacks are on the list of things people with overinflated egos refuse to use, I guess because they're associated with being in school. But to be fair, you'll be hard pressed to find one that can fit a modern GW starter box. I just tossed my first-day-of-highschool backpack that I used for 28 years as the bottom gave out, it could fit Leviathan with room to spare. The best replacement I could find is not even close.

I didn't even like backpacks when I was in school because things would inevitably get damaged.

But mostly I just don't carry enough crap around with me to justify walking around with a backpack all the time. I just end up with a bottle of water rolling around in the bottom of it and that's about it.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 BertBert wrote:
People don't use backpacks these days?

Backpacks are on the list of things people with overinflated egos refuse to use, I guess because they're associated with being in school. But to be fair, you'll be hard pressed to find one that can fit a modern GW starter box. I just tossed my first-day-of-highschool backpack that I used for 28 years as the bottom gave out, it could fit Leviathan with room to spare. The best replacement I could find is not even close.

I didn't even like backpacks when I was in school because things would inevitably get damaged.

But mostly I just don't carry enough crap around with me to justify walking around with a backpack all the time. I just end up with a bottle of water rolling around in the bottom of it and that's about it.

These days with the price of eating out I'm honestly surprised more people aren't carrying backpacks everywhere with home made sandwiches in them

 Overread wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 BertBert wrote:
People don't use backpacks these days?

Backpacks are on the list of things people with overinflated egos refuse to use, I guess because they're associated with being in school. But to be fair, you'll be hard pressed to find one that can fit a modern GW starter box. I just tossed my first-day-of-highschool backpack that I used for 28 years as the bottom gave out, it could fit Leviathan with room to spare. The best replacement I could find is not even close.

I didn't even like backpacks when I was in school because things would inevitably get damaged.

But mostly I just don't carry enough crap around with me to justify walking around with a backpack all the time. I just end up with a bottle of water rolling around in the bottom of it and that's about it.

These days with the price of eating out I'm honestly surprised more people aren't carrying backpacks everywhere with home made sandwiches in them

Probably just shows how boring I am but usually I'm home for meals

Or if I am out, I'm close enough to my car to not have to actively carry that sort of stuff with me, I just leave it in the car.

Come to think of it, the last time I used a backpack outside of holidaying was when I still caught public transport regularly But where I live, it takes more that twice as long to get anywhere on public transport so it's not practical for people with busy lives.

Twice as long and as much if not more than just putting fuel in the car here. I love travelling by train, but honestly the price and speed are just not there. I'd be ok with the speed if the prices were way way less but these days its just nuts how much a ticket costs

exanimus wrote:

Lord Zarkov wrote:

They’re legally required to charge for bags in the UK so it won’t be a direct cost saving. But there’s probably some green incentive they benefit from by getting rid of them entirely.

The incentive is they don't have to pay to have them manufactured, paper or plastic.

It's a cost saving measure that just so happens to be environmentally friendly. Similar to businesses upgrading to LED lightning etc.

But they charge for them. Somewhere in the realm of 10-20p, which is going to be more than it costs to manufacture.

So they’ll be making a (fairly minuscule) profit on the bags, but that still means getting rid of them will cost them rather than save, even before you account for any opportunity costs of impulse buys that don’t happen because there’s no bags.

Lord Zarkov wrote:

exanimus wrote:

Lord Zarkov wrote:

They’re legally required to charge for bags in the UK so it won’t be a direct cost saving. But there’s probably some green incentive they benefit from by getting rid of them entirely.

The incentive is they don't have to pay to have them manufactured, paper or plastic.

It's a cost saving measure that just so happens to be environmentally friendly. Similar to businesses upgrading to LED lightning etc.

But they charge for them. Somewhere in the realm of 10-20p, which is going to be more than it costs to manufacture.

So they’ll be making a (fairly minuscule) profit on the bags, but that still means getting rid of them will cost them rather than save, even before you account for any opportunity costs of impulse buys that don’t happen because there’s no bags.

I'd assumed for some reason the carrier bag charge was a tax but seems like it's not.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/single-use-plastic-carrier-bags-why-were-introducing-the-charge/carrier-bags-why-theres-a-5p-charge

According to that retailers are "expected to give proceeds to good causes".

Anyway I dont see why they arent just offering paper bags instead. I think those would be fairly sufficient for most purchases in their stores.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 BertBert wrote:

 warboss wrote:

 BertBert wrote:
People don't use backpacks these days?

Or a sled, amirite? I mean who doesn't visit the hobbystore without a trusty laundry cart!

Guess I'm what they call a "boomer" then

I think this is more of a European/American divide. Over here backpacks are for school books or camping stuff, and absolutely nothing else. We have to drive everywhere, so why bring a backpack when we have a trunk to store stuff?

Not only that, but most stores I’ve been to here in the South won’t let you bring in a backpack or will search it entering/leaving due to shoplifting issues.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Sorry, as long as we have people who consume more in a day than I do in a lifetime you won't convince me this is anything but smoke and mirrors.

Ah yes. Obviously putting out even more plastic out would be better. Your logic is awesome

there is a a logic behind it as the majority of plastic waste is happening outside of the sphere of influence of the customer.
so as long as the items are packed shrink wrapped plastic, plastic being used to secure the pallets between stations and the main product has plastic waste itself, not using plastic bags is nothing but smoke and mirrors
good that the bags are gone, but the impact is just not there and only gives the illusion of change

 Overread wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 BertBert wrote:
People don't use backpacks these days?

Backpacks are on the list of things people with overinflated egos refuse to use, I guess because they're associated with being in school. But to be fair, you'll be hard pressed to find one that can fit a modern GW starter box. I just tossed my first-day-of-highschool backpack that I used for 28 years as the bottom gave out, it could fit Leviathan with room to spare. The best replacement I could find is not even close.

I didn't even like backpacks when I was in school because things would inevitably get damaged.

But mostly I just don't carry enough crap around with me to justify walking around with a backpack all the time. I just end up with a bottle of water rolling around in the bottom of it and that's about it.

These days with the price of eating out I'm honestly surprised more people aren't carrying backpacks everywhere with home made sandwiches in them

there is an interesting generation gap in the company I work for
like every single one who is from the older generation carry a large backpack or or shoulder bag with lunch and be it a 90% empty bag with a single sandwich, while my generation not use anything at all and the younger generation is doing it again

 kodos wrote:
there is a a logic behind it as the majority of plastic waste is happening outside of the sphere of influence of the customer.
so as long as the items are packed shrink wrapped plastic, plastic being used to secure the pallets between stations and the main product has plastic waste itself, not using plastic bags is nothing but smoke and mirrors
good that the bags are gone, but the impact is just not there and only gives the illusion of change

Another aspect is the flow of waste. Companies can use and generate more plastics, but governments can also legislate firms so that the waste they produce goes through specific channels which means that, in theory, that plastic waste can more reliably enter recycling systems. When you've got a mountain of plastic at the end of the day, putting it in a specific sorted bin and sending it to a specific facility is a lot easier.

Meanwhile home waste is often just thrown into a common rubbish bag and might not be sorted or anything.



So whilst companies might well generate more waste than the public, the waste itself can be managed in a different way and more reliably enter the recycling/storing system. Whilst the home rubbish is far less regulated/sorted/ordered because the average person might have dozens of little bits of different plastics and other materials. It's just not worth it to sort it all into specific bins and slots and such.

I remember loving GW plastic bags as a kid, always preferring to use them to any other, when the occasions occurred. (Warhammer was the coolest thing to me, and I guess I wanted to flaunt that, lol, kind of like marvel pins people put on themselves now)
At the cashier deck, when my new warhammer purchase was packed inside one of those, it provided some pleasant psychological bs in my head- an important finishing touch to a purchase. I guess sort of like a present being wrapped in paper and ribbon, or having a straw being put inside a glass of coke.

If I was GW I’d continue to enforce brand loyalty through simple touches like described above, then through virtue signalling, so that hopefully someone on Reddit will leave a positive comment on the GW news thread.

Besides, with how absolutely minuscule of an effort that it is, to help the environment, even when combined with all the ditching of plastic straws and other plastic bags in the world, they might as well not bother.

SnotlingPimpWagon wrote:

Besides, with how absolutely minuscule of an effort that it is, to help the environment, even when combined with all the ditching of plastic straws and other plastic bags in the world, they might as well not bother.

And if GW doesn't bother because there's no point so no one else bothers so nothing happens.
But if GW bothers because of government legislation that expands and impacts more businesses then steadily you get to the point where the plastic straws vanish too.

GW alone isn't going to change the world but its one step closer

It’s the shopping trolley problem, isn’t it.

You can tell a lot about a person based on whether or not they return their shopping trolley to the collection point.

It’s a minimal effort thing to do, and objectively the right thing to do, as it ensures no trolleys trundling about the carpark, and that they’re available for the next shopper.

Sorting my recycling is hardly a Labour of Hercules. It’s maybe a few seconds extra when putting an item in the bin - which because I’m not a filth wizard I was going to be doing anyway. If it’s a tin of food? Takes no time to rinse it out, same with glass jars. Beer cans and pop bottles? Squish them down to maximise space.

Carrier Bags? As covered much earlier I have my own shopping bag what I made myself. For the most part it’s plenty, and when it’s not I’ll either take a bag with me, or ensure a new carrier bag I get with my shopping is saved for another day or put in the recycling.

When I get my groceries delivered? I don’t bother with bags. Sure it involves a bit of running back and forth when it arrives, but again, hardly a Labour of Hercules.

We’re all part of the problem to some degree or other, so we all need to do something to address it,

There's also other things too that connect too it. Eg its a lot easier to get people to recycle if you give them two bins to put their rubbish in with one being for recycling.

Same as how those simple coin activators on trollies can encourage people to put them back.

Even people who are diligent with such things often need the system to be easy/effortless/rewarding to use to maintain their activities.

Companies are the same, that's why you need legislation and fines and so forth, but also proper practice and methods to allow firms to be setup the right way and supported the right way. No point having firms sort the trash if it then all goes into one landfill etc.


Which sad to say is one other problem - a whole bunch of recycling right now isn't based on recyling but shipping it around the world or just putting it in a landfill with a sign on int.

 Overread wrote:

SnotlingPimpWagon wrote:

Besides, with how absolutely minuscule of an effort that it is, to help the environment, even when combined with all the ditching of plastic straws and other plastic bags in the world, they might as well not bother.

And if GW doesn't bother because there's no point so no one else bothers so nothing happens.
But if GW bothers because of government legislation that expands and impacts more businesses then steadily you get to the point where the plastic straws vanish too.

GW alone isn't going to change the world but its one step closer

No. It isn’t.

It’s like a charity donation to a donkey for 1 pound a month via sms. First worlders believe they have helped and their inner peace is good and stable. Same thing with a move from plastic to paper straws. The myth of it being helpful has been told so much, people truly believe it, rather than doing a 3 min google search and finding out how it actually harms the environment, just in slightly different ways. All those little tricks are very good for gaslighting general public into believing that there is progress and the company or country are fighting the good fight “every little helps”. Want change? Here is an easy task: stop China from manufacturing in a way they do and stop the rest of the world from buying their product, until they change their ways. Here is another one: make people not use electronic devices for 8-12 hours a day.

GWs new low tier effort to help the environment multiplied by a billion is not even close to being anything meaningful.

Energy wasted on discussing this subject on multiple forums, Reddit and YouTube through electronic devices has probably already offset the good their initiative might have done.

 Overread wrote:

So whilst companies might well generate more waste than the public, the waste itself can be managed in a different way and more reliably enter the recycling/storing system. Whilst the home rubbish is far less regulated/sorted/ordered because the average person might have dozens of little bits of different plastics and other materials. It's just not worth it to sort it all into specific bins and slots and such.

tricky thing is, there is no plastic recycle/storing system for that kind of waste (not many plastics are recyclable to begin with changing the plastics or combine them removes them from the system, even something simple like printing something on the surface)
this is either burned or goes into the ocean

like CocaCola now wraps their plastic bottles in paper and have the caps attached yet still selling plastic bottles for cheap

SnotlingPimpWagon wrote:
Energy wasted on discussing this subject on multiple forums, Reddit and YouTube through electronic devices has probably already offset the good their initiative might have done.

It would help if people would stop trying to claim that a small step forward is a bad thing because it hasn't solved everything.

as long as the "small steps" are all about blaming the customers instead of actually changing things, there are not steps forward made at all

and that is the big problem, a lot of those "small steps" are just an illusion of progress and not doing anything at all except making people believe that change is happening

 Dysartes wrote:

SnotlingPimpWagon wrote:
Energy wasted on discussing this subject on multiple forums, Reddit and YouTube through electronic devices has probably already offset the good their initiative might have done.

It would help if people would stop trying to claim that a small step forward is a bad thing because it hasn't solved everything.

It has, always, when people realised that they are bs-ing themselves and real change needs real efforts.

On a topic of GW plastics bags - they haven’t had good designs for a while now, so I’m not that saddened by the fact they are going the way of the dodo- old 40k and Fantasy logos are unlikely to return.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Sorry, as long as we have people who consume more in a day than I do in a lifetime you won't convince me this is anything but smoke and mirrors.

Sorry you feel that way, and I agree that its an unfair world.
But the large waste of a few doesnt harm nearly as much as the small waste of the large mass.
Thats why getting rid of needless plastic for such idiotic things as carrying stuff or sucking soda from a cup makes a much bigger difference than stopping billionaires private jets.


It is a bit ironic though, GW phasing out plastic bags XD

Soulless wrote:

It is a bit ironic though, GW phasing out plastic bags XD

Not really (and I appreciate that might be partly sarcasm) but the problems with plastics aren't just one thing. Plastic bags have the problem of being discarded, becoming litter, becoming a hazard to wildlife which might eat them or become entangled in them, breaking up into small pieces which enter waterways where they further risk being ingested by animals and so on. Those problems don't apply to miniatures or to leftover plastic sprues in any appreciable way.

Remember that GW have also removed shrinkwrap from boxes and begun to discontinue blister packs. These are all small positives – they might not be anywhere near enough, but I can't understand the attitude that they're pointless because they're somehow not enough to fix the problem by themselves. That feels like people just wanting to be cynical or contrary.

 kodos wrote:
as long as the "small steps" are all about blaming the customers instead of actually changing things, there are not steps forward made at all

and that is the big problem, a lot of those "small steps" are just an illusion of progress and not doing anything at all except making people believe that change is happening

This, I've recently been in Spain, and in Madrid you are supposed to short your trash into organic/paper/glass/cans/recyclable plastics/others. After such a herculean task because trash is not really intuitive (e.g a dirty napkin is organic, but if not dirty supposedly is paper, a dirty nappie is others because human waste, but goes into plastics if not...) all the recyclable trash is collected into one truck, and supposedly sorted out at the recyclable center.

I'm in favor of reducing waste, I live in Japan where famously individual portions are wrapped in plastic, put into a plastic, or paper container, wrapped again, wrapped once more if it's a multiple unit package, and so on , but I also think that the no plastic bag is a drop in the ocean.

M.