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In the Warhammer 40,000 universe, there were originally 20 Primarchs created by the Emperor of Mankind during the Great Crusade.

Of the ones we know of, which ones do you think have the best chance of being modelified?

I put the Primarchs that have models in 40k in bold

1. **Lion El'Jonson** - Dark Angels
2. **Fulgrim** - Emperor's Children
3. **Perturabo** - Iron Warriors
4. **Jaghatai Khan** - White Scars
5. **Leman Russ** - Space Wolves
6. **Rogal Dorn** - Imperial Fists
7. **Konrad Curze** - Night Lords
8. **Sanguinius** - Blood Angels
9. **Ferrus Manus** - Iron Hands
10. **Angron** - World Eaters
11. **Mortarion** - Death Guard
12. **Magnus the Red** - Thousand Sons
13. **Horus Lupercal** - Luna Wolves (later known as Sons of Horus)
14. **Lorgar Aurelian** - Word Bearers
15. **Vulkan** - Salamanders
16. **Corvus Corax** - Raven Guard
17/18. **Alpharius/Omegon** - Alpha Legion
19. **Bobby G.** - Ultramarines

Rubinek - Iron Hearts

Of the Traitor Primarchs?

Horus and Curze are done and deaded. Until they’re not alive anymore.

Alpharius was also slain, but Omegon may not be, if he even existed because weird and sometimes not very good books and background.

Of the Loyalists?

Outside of direct and seemingly effective clones? Ferrus remains horribly dead in the face.

Dorn? A hand was found. Even for us hideous, horrible, smelly standard hoomans? That’s not a death blow.

And given the two most confirmed to have been horribly maimed and nearly killed to death are back and looking for some revenge based fun?

Who’s to say those who apparently Just Buggered Off aren’t coming back at some point or another?

GWs decision to make primarchs the defacto protagonists of the setting means they will inevitably bring back all of them regardless of death.

As soon as one came back the rest were on their way.

The daemon primarchs originally the only ones left because they were immortal, but now primarchs are Saturday morning cartoon characters and are all immortal, that feature doesn't stand out and also turns being a daemon primarch from trading a soul for power to just idiots that got worse.

But the point is they've fundamentally changed how they work and they'll all be back with whatever thin narrative device they can come up with.

I'm just secretly hoping Vulkan gets a rule that says he gets back up on a 2+. Every time he would be killed...

 Hellebore wrote:
GWs decision to make primarchs the defacto protagonists of the setting means they will inevitably bring back all of them regardless of death.

As soon as one came back the rest were on their way.

The daemon primarchs originally the only ones left because they were immortal, but now primarchs are Saturday morning cartoon characters and are all immortal, that feature doesn't stand out and also turns being a daemon primarch from trading a soul for power to just idiots that got worse.

But the point is they've fundamentally changed how they work and they'll all be back with whatever thin narrative device they can come up with.

Cobblers. Partially.

Guilliman was held in stasis, and has long been described as possibly healing. And The Lion, since at least 2nd Edition has been described as fully healed, but not waking up.

The rest (outside of Daemon Princes, who are now proper immortal) well need to wait and see. That two of nine have returned by no means confirms the other seven are on their way.

Bringing back confirmed dead Primarchs - especially Horus - would be a mistake in my opinion. Even bringing back the II and XI Primarchs would be more sensical and less offensive.

Vulkan
Russ
Khan
Dorn

In that order for the loyalists. Vulkan is beloved by the community, it would make a lot of money for GW... Same for Russ. I think him or Russ will be back this year.

The return of Leman Russ feels like a metaphysical certitude at this point.

Both Vulcan and Russ have “I’ll be back” stuff going on IIRC.

Vulcan is “Find all the mcguffins” and Russ is “I’ll return for the wolf-time/ragnaroc/Armageddon”

They were not the low-hanging fruit that the Lion and Guiliman were, but next in line for the easy return.

Dorn is comic book dead. We have a hand, but not a body. If they bring him back they will need to explain some things, but it should not be hard.

Khan I’m not sure on the details. He went off into the webway chasing DE, never to be seen again? Will need to explain what he’d been up to for the last 10k years, but not hard.

Corax is the same IIRC. Went off on a mission, never came back.

The two dead need to stay dead. Sanguinius and Ferrus are dead, and their deaths are a defining part of their chapter’s identity. To bring them back without crapping on the lore and fluff they have built over the years would require more skill then I have faith in GW having. What happens to the black rage if BA get their primarch back? His death still echoing though the chapter? If they want an equivalent go with something like “The Sanguinor Ascendent” Make a flappy angelic spiritual manifestation. Would make a iconic centerpiece model for the angels without crapping all over history.

Ferrus is harder without resorting to cheep comic book tricks. While I like the idea of him heading up the LotD, I’m not sure if that would scratch the itch for GW or IH players. But he’s dead, and his death has meaning. Undoing it would be bad, IMHO.

Less up on what the traitors are up to.

We’ve got the big 4 back. One per god. That’s a good base, and IMHO we should stop there.

Perturbo I think could be fun to tie into the Vashtor demon-machine arc. Seems like his jam, and if they are going to bring him back a good excuse.

Logar? He’s a kinda generic pro-chaos guy, but what’s his angle? What would he bring that’s not already there? Sure he’s an easy add, but I feel he’d need a campaign centered around the hows and whys of his return.

Alpharius/Omegon are meme level at this point. Are one or both of them dead, was it all a ruse? Are you Alpharious? Am I? Who knows! This is one of the points that is better for not having details. Having a model will pin down answers for a legion better left nebulous.

Curze is dead. And in death, vindication. He let him self be assassinated to prove a point. Don’t take that away from him.

Horus is dead dead. Like soul obliterated gone last I checked. His mantle has been taken up by Abbadon, let him keep it.

Why no love for my boy Rubinek?

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Why no love for my boy Rubinek?

Listen, Simon Jowett, you and your Iron Hearts can be shoved back into your bottle and tossed back into the Maelstrom.


PS. The author later clarified that he had meant Chapter Master. Thank goodness that those Black Library editors didn't let that slip through.

They didn't exactly create a masterpiece of fiction when they brought back the 2 loyalists though.

Guilliman was resurrected by Eldar macguffin magic and the lion.... Woke up?

The 'oh he's healing in stasis' thing was originally described as wishful piety and didn't even play into his resurrection. Because he was actually dead, he had been mortally wounded. If he could heal from that he wouldn't have needed stasis in the first place.


So i don't think that gw cares if the story is good when bringing back primarchs because the two they've already brought back were absolutely lame.

And I don't think they care if they bring back dead ones.

They've spent a lot of HH books retconning primarchs into meat vessels for warp entities that forget that's what they are when they're cosplaying as the emperor's sons.

And their warp spirit souls are just floating around waiting to be reborn.

I've seen people even comment on the perfect fulgrim clone getting his 'pure' spirit back so you can have loyalist traitors again. And GW will do it if they see money. Because they've retconned the chaos primarchs to not actually be those primarchs so players can feel like the bad primarchs aren't bad Afterall they're just daemon possessed and their true souls are fine.

Heaven forefend people have to live with the consequences of their actions

From a purely cool mini perspective, I'd like them all to come back (A Dorn who had to rebuild himself after his encounter with the World Eaters, a Khan who has spent 10,000 years hanging with the Eldar etc.) but I could see GW leaving it at 4 a side.

We've already got the 4 traitors, but of the 2 remaining loyalists I can only see Russ as a definite. I don't think they would bring back Sanguinius, but I could see another character getting a buff "Imbued with the power of Sanguinius" version. And I'm not sure what other chapters are popular for a big centrepiece mini.

If we're going by Rule of Cool, then I'm all for getting Shadow Demon Corax. Perturabo also has some potential.

The big 4 loyalists are Ultramarines, Dark Angels, Blood Angels and Space Wolves.

So I think the good money is on Russ to come back next. I think lore wise it works aswell, the opening of the great rift is a perfect opportunity for Russ to find his way back out of the warp.

And it gives GW more time to decide if they want to want to bring back a dead primarch or if they want to elevate white scars above blood angles.

Technically, all of the Primarchs except for Horus and Sanguinis can come back.

That said, one of the big draws of the Horus Heresy game is that you get to play with all of the Primarchs there. That draw will go away if Games Workshop makes the 16 remaining Primarchs playable in 40k.

Calbear wrote:
Technically, all of the Primarchs except for Horus and Sanguinis can come back.

That said, one of the big draws of the Horus Heresy game is that you get to play with all of the Primarchs there. That draw will go away if Games Workshop makes the 16 remaining Primarchs playable in 40k.

If you think that dead means they can still come back, then Horus and Sanguinius can come back too. Splitting hairs over how dead they are is besides the point once you've jumped the shark of DEAD....

Horus was deleted, completely. The dude's gone.

With Sanguinius it's less clear because Dante had a chat with him in a vision once and it was said to feel very real rather than just being a crazy old man.

But when Fabius Bile cloned the Primarchs, only one seemed to have any real retention of what could be called a "soul", and that copy of Fulgrim got tesseract cubed by Trazyn.
The Horus-Clone was nothing but a shell with no soul. The memories were all implanted by Fabius.

 Gert wrote:
Horus was deleted, completely. The dude's gone.

With Sanguinius it's less clear because Dante had a chat with him in a vision once and it was said to feel very real rather than just being a crazy old man.

But when Fabius Bile cloned the Primarchs, only one seemed to have any real retention of what could be called a "soul", and that copy of Fulgrim got tesseract cubed by Trazyn.
The Horus-Clone was nothing but a shell with no soul. The memories were all implanted by Fabius.

Until they mcguffin that all away because $. I'm surprised how much people are clinging to certainties of lore when GW have shown their willingness to wholesale change them when they feel it will make them money.

There are no sacred cows in 40k, if there were it would still look like it did in 2nd ed.

I had personally been under the assumption that we would see one primarch per codex. At least that's what seemed most rational to me. Space Wolfs would be the easiest. I'd love to Rogal Dorn return dark and edgy in the BT codex. BA would be a tricky one.

'Somehow Horus returned'

 Gert wrote:
Horus was deleted, completely. The dude's gone.

With Sanguinius it's less clear because Dante had a chat with him in a vision once and it was said to feel very real rather than just being a crazy old man.

But when Fabius Bile cloned the Primarchs, only one seemed to have any real retention of what could be called a "soul", and that copy of Fulgrim got tesseract cubed by Trazyn.
The Horus-Clone was nothing but a shell with no soul. The memories were all implanted by Fabius.

What do you mean by deleted? Doesn’t everyone’s soul reside in the warp even after their mortal form is gone?

Even when slaneesh devours eldar souls they must go somewhere, even if they are changed into something unrecognisable as a soul, like a soul turd.

I’ve never considered if the warp is subject to entropy and until now I’d never wondered what happened to horus’s soul

I was always under the impression that whatever it was that the Emperor did to Horus, it was more than just being killed by mortal means.

Ferrus got his head cut off, Curze got stabbed, Sanguinius got stabbed and beaten.
Horus on the other hand got brain magic lasered by one of the most powerful psykers to ever exist.
Next bit is spoilers for Siege of Terra:


I don't have any books to hand anymore so it might just be me confusing common knowledge with actual background.

Calbear wrote:
Technically, all of the Primarchs except for Horus and Sanguinis can come back.

What's your logic for Ferrus and Night Haunter?

 Dysartes wrote:

Calbear wrote:
Technically, all of the Primarchs except for Horus and Sanguinis can come back.

What's your logic for Ferrus and Night Haunter?

It's 40k - who needs logic?

But again, personally, I'd rather see dead Primarchs stay dead.

 BorderCountess wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

Calbear wrote:
Technically, all of the Primarchs except for Horus and Sanguinis can come back.

What's your logic for Ferrus and Night Haunter?

It's 40k - who needs logic?

But again, personally, I'd rather see dead Primarchs stay dead.

When it comes to bringing back two where one is convincingly dead, and the other appears to have committed suicide-by-Assassin? Yet leaving one of the remaining two as dead?

Me. I need logic.

Ever since GW decided they could make money out of primarchs with the HH series they've gone out of their way to retcon and undermine the many primarch deaths.

Vulkan originally died at Istvaan - surprise he's actually saturday morning cartoon immortal!

Dorn originally died leaving only his hands - psych, did you really think that was ACTUALLY dead?

Kurze was originally legitimately assassinated by M'Shen - psych, we can't have our big manbaby powerfantasy wankpuppets look lame like that, no he did it himself which means he didn't really, see?

Since 1993 when they flat out stated primarchs weren't immortal and died out, GW have slowly but surely been walking back every definitive fact about primarch mortality and death as they mine them for money.


I don't see this any differently.

 Hellebore wrote:
Ever since GW decided they could make money out of primarchs with the HH series they've gone out of their way to retcon and undermine the many primarch deaths.

Vulkan originally died at Istvaan - surprise he's actually saturday morning cartoon immortal!

Dorn originally died leaving only his hands - psych, did you really think that was ACTUALLY dead?

Kurze was originally legitimately assassinated by M'Shen - psych, we can't have our big manbaby powerfantasy wankpuppets look lame like that, no he did it himself which means he didn't really, see?

Since 1993 when they flat out stated primarchs weren't immortal and died out, GW have slowly but surely been walking back every definitive fact about primarch mortality and death as they mine them for money.


I don't see this any differently.

Vulkan was weird. Back in the 3rd Ed era it was implied he died at Istvaan, but we also have his recorded opinions on the 2nd Founding. The way HH went with him is an interesting way to square that circle tbh.


WRT Dorn, originally it was more than just his hands. The Chapter Master had his hands to scrimshaw, but they also had his whole skeleton preserved in the Phalanx.
IIRC it was an IA retcon that the only found his hands.

If you look at the timelines, it's pretty clear that GW were developing the IA and HH at the same time.

The sabertooth card game HH where all the big retconns and additions (like Malcador, sisters of silence etc) was running alongside the IA.

The HH CCG was released in 2003 and ran til 2008, so it overlapped both the IAs (DA published 2001 and AL published 2003) and the HH novels.

The first HH book was published in april 2006, which puts the writing happening in 2005/2006.

GW were putting a concerted effort into rewriting the heresy for at least 5 years before they began writing the novels. And with each addition, the finality of primarch deaths was reduced as their power levels increased.

 Dysartes wrote:

 BorderCountess wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

Calbear wrote:
Technically, all of the Primarchs except for Horus and Sanguinis can come back.

What's your logic for Ferrus and Night Haunter?

It's 40k - who needs logic?

But again, personally, I'd rather see dead Primarchs stay dead.

When it comes to bringing back two where one is convincingly dead, and the other appears to have committed suicide-by-Assassin? Yet leaving one of the remaining two as dead?

Me. I need logic.

Eldrad was dead. Now he's not dead.

You need logic, GW do not, they retconned an entire global campaign to get the outcome they wanted, if they wanted to bring any of the primarchs back they wouldn't let little things like logic or having conclusively stated they're dead or them having narratively satisfying conclusions to their stories stop them.