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Obviously, we know that some Chapters apparently have First Sergeants (E-8) and it goes without saying that a generic Sgt is a E-5, but what do we know of Marine ranks below that of Sgt?

Going from the attached image we clearly have a "Squad Leader" existing seperately to that of Sergeant (presumably the sgt takes one fireteam, and the SL takes the second), but that ordinarily implies a billet and title, not so much a rank. Would the "Squad Leader" be a corporal equivilent (E-4)?

Would that also mean that Marines with special and heavy weaponry be classified as Specialists (E-4)?

And what about below that? if say a work-detail that is below the attention of even the "Squad Leader" is being marched off somewhere, are there Marine E-3's or E-2's that are expected to take charge?

It's nowhere near as formal as that.

Squad leaders are temporary for Combat Squads and is more a sign of respect or hint that the Sergeant thinks the chosen Astartes could be put in the path to advancing in rank

I agree with Gert. Modern forces need clear rank structures to support fair pay bands and meaningful advancement.

Marines don't need either of those things as they are monastic orders of heavily indoctrinated fanatics. Rank and seniority appears to be more based on time in service and observed competence. If anything Marines are quite good poster boys for a true meritocracy. Also any real incompetence will be weeded out in short order by unnatural selection on the battlefield.

I don't own the books anymore, but.I remember the Deathwatch RPG having a bit that tried to explain the Marine rankings.

A squad leader may be a marine that has achieved veteran status, or another particular citation or award. Whoever the Sergeant favors really.

In a similar situation is the role of Force Commander, which is a temporary title for the marine in charge of any non-standard sized group of marines for an operation, such as one with multiple squads, companies or even multiple chapters. Normally this would be the most veteran captain, but depending on the particular operation, could also be a lieutenant, chapter master, chaplain, champion, or even librarian.

The E-4 mafia was co-opted by Horus to become the warrior lodges, and who said they were stamped out...

From what GW have published, marines have the following ranks:

Aspirant
Neophyte
Battle Brother (as oppose to the generic brother)
Senior Battle Brother (squad leaders)*
Sergeant/Veteran**
Veteran Sergeant
Lieutenant
Captain
Chapter Master



*This one is implied by squad leaders, but also because even if you aren't concerned about rank, you do need to know which of your troops are more experienced to promote to sergeant. You don't just pick blindly, so those troops that are in line to be promoted to sergeant must be distinguishable in some way.

** Sergeants and Veterans seem to be relatively interchangeable, with the only difference being that a Veteran Sergeant is above a Sergeant. We see this in the way the space wolves distribute wolf guard throughout squads, they become squad leaders even though they aren't sergeants.

Wolf Guard are different from Codex Chapter Veterans. They're essentially the household guard of a Wolf Lord and don't follow the standard rank advancement of Codex Chapters.

Most 1st Company members achieve the honour through years of service; however, a Wolf Guard can be raised at any time from any place within a Great Company, and it is entirely possible to have a Long Fang, Grey Hunter, and Blood Claw all serving as Wolf Guard.

 Gert wrote:
Wolf Guard are different from Codex Chapter Veterans. They're essentially the household guard of a Wolf Lord and don't follow the standard rank advancement of Codex Chapters.

Most 1st Company members achieve the honour through years of service; however, a Wolf Guard can be raised at any time from any place within a Great Company, and it is entirely possible to have a Long Fang, Grey Hunter, and Blood Claw all serving as Wolf Guard.

Sure, but as you say, only MOST 1st company members achieve through seniority, not all. Marines, not just wolves, respect natural skill and ability and won't put time in the seat above that.

 Gert wrote:
Wolf Guard are different from Codex Chapter Veterans. They're essentially the household guard of a Wolf Lord and don't follow the standard rank advancement of Codex Chapters.

Most 1st Company members achieve the honour through years of service; however, a Wolf Guard can be raised at any time from any place within a Great Company, and it is entirely possible to have a Long Fang, Grey Hunter, and Blood Claw all serving as Wolf Guard.

I kind of want to urge conclusion caution here.

The Wolf Guard are of course famed for a “did you kick a frankly irresponsible amount of arse, or do something really funny, we of course mean cool” approach to recruitment.

But it doesn’t necessarily follow that such an elevation along the same principles is impossible in other Chapters. Unusual? Rare? Sure. Not to say therefore impossible.

Hence why I said "most".

Of course there will be examples of a 4th Company line Astartes getting bumped to 1st Company but that's a one in a thousand as opposed to the Wolf Guard where it's the personal choice of the Lord.

I'd appreciate less policing of my langauge when it is entirely correct.

I’ve always had a bit of headcannon about rank and veterans.

It used to be that all sarges were not veteran sergeants. You had two different levels. So it made sense to me that there were two different paths. Those with leadership skills/aptitude would start as squad leaders, to take charge of the back half when a 10 man squad breaks up into 2x5. Eventually they move up to a sarge of their own squad, maybe become part of a command squad to learn from the captain. Someday, maybe become a captain. Not a lot of space in the command path in a chapter.

Veterans are marines who get real good at their job, but don’t have the spark of leadership. They work their way though dev, assault, tac squads like the rest of their brothers. Filling squads, killing foes, doing the Emperor’s work. Eventually they end up in the 1st company in vet squads. But also other spots, like company champions, honor guard, etc.

Now there is overlap. Marines with both the leadership and prowess become vet sarges. These guys have what it takes to go to the top.

But there is not a lot of need for formal ranks in the space marines. They tend to know what needs to be done, and are a small enough organization to know each other. If there is a disagreement on what to do between battle brothers, I’d assume one with more experience would override the other. This might just be years of service, but also life experience. When fighting nids, you listen to the tyranic war vet over the guy with the same years in service (or more) who was fighting orcs.

Yeah, I don't think this kind of NATO nerdery is of much help here. There's just no way you can map a SM chapter to the command structure of a million-strong army like that of a present-day world power. When you have only 1,000 men, all of whom are active-duty field personnel, the chain of command is a much shorter one. Probably like:

- Chapter master
- Captain
- Lieutenant
- Sergeant
- Fire team leader (equivalent of a corporal)
- Battle brother

That's it, aside perhaps from some qualifiers (such as seniority or specialization) that may give you precedence over someone of equal rank but don't truly translate into more men under your command.

Most chapters likely also have non-Marine auxiliaries or combat-oriented chapter serfs who vastly outnumber the Marines themselves, but they'll have a different command structure.

.

the-gentleman-ranker wrote:

Going from the attached image we clearly have a "Squad Leader" existing seperately to that of Sergeant (presumably the sgt takes one fireteam, and the SL takes the second), but that ordinarily implies a billet and title, not so much a rank. Would the "Squad Leader" be a corporal equivilent (E-4)?

Would that also mean that Marines with special and heavy weaponry be classified as Specialists (E-4)?

And what about below that? if say a work-detail that is below the attention of even the "Squad Leader" is being marched off somewhere, are there Marine E-3's or E-2's that are expected to take charge?

There is a specific answer to this question in the book that the photo in OP is taken from. There is no need for speculation. There so many people who used to post on dakka, and I liked seeing, and who still put photos on Insta, but seemed to have realized that it's just not worth talking to the posters in this thread, who post incessantly.

Yeah, I don't think this kind of NATO nerdery is of much help here.

there are flat out two parallel e4 positions in chapters and two parallel e4 ranks in the US army.