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That's along the lines of what the Vanus do.

Depends on the augmentations.

We see ridiculous stuff in Astartes, such as being able to send one half of their brain to sleep, with the other half taking over. And whilst not indefinitely, they can keep that up for days. The record is apparently 328 hours.

I don’t think it’s beyond reason that a sect as well funded and equipped as the Vindicare temple (and possibly all Assassin Temples) may have a refined version of that.

I mean, the technology for the Astartes version came from somewhere, yes? And by no means are the Astartes implants The Absolute Best On The Market. Custodes alone put paid to that.

Astartes are also, compared to Assassins, more mass produced and kinda disposable. So I’m comfortable arguing that if such an implant/enhancement exists, there’s nothing stopping it being markedly superior to the mass production version designed for the Astartes programme.

An assassin that exploits bureaucracy to destroy its enemies would be very interesting, and very on point for 40k, too. The joke would be that even though you may rebel, you cannot avoid the crushing inertia of paperwork. Even if having a fellow who shoots a gun real good would be more practical.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Depends on the augmentations.

We see ridiculous stuff in Astartes, such as being able to send one half of their brain to sleep, with the other half taking over. And whilst not indefinitely, they can keep that up for days. The record is apparently 328 hours.

I don’t think it’s beyond reason that a sect as well funded and equipped as the Vindicare temple (and possibly all Assassin Temples) may have a refined version of that.

I mean, the technology for the Astartes version came from somewhere, yes? And by no means are the Astartes implants The Absolute Best On The Market. Custodes alone put paid to that.

Astartes are also, compared to Assassins, more mass produced and kinda disposable. So I’m comfortable arguing that if such an implant/enhancement exists, there’s nothing stopping it being markedly superior to the mass production version designed for the Astartes programme.

I always thought that the technology that was used to enhance base humans into assassins was more advanced and secret than the Astartes making tech. I mean a single assassin is more dangerous than a single Astartes so if they were easier to make there would be squads of them, maybe even regiments

Sniper go bang, ah ah. Boom boom, big gun shoot far.

Cool stuff, simple as.

I wish we had more IG character who carried full sized guns instead of pistol and melee or full on melee loadouts.

mrFickle wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Depends on the augmentations.

We see ridiculous stuff in Astartes, such as being able to send one half of their brain to sleep, with the other half taking over. And whilst not indefinitely, they can keep that up for days. The record is apparently 328 hours.

I don’t think it’s beyond reason that a sect as well funded and equipped as the Vindicare temple (and possibly all Assassin Temples) may have a refined version of that.

I mean, the technology for the Astartes version came from somewhere, yes? And by no means are the Astartes implants The Absolute Best On The Market. Custodes alone put paid to that.

Astartes are also, compared to Assassins, more mass produced and kinda disposable. So I’m comfortable arguing that if such an implant/enhancement exists, there’s nothing stopping it being markedly superior to the mass production version designed for the Astartes programme.

I always thought that the technology that was used to enhance base humans into assassins was more advanced and secret than the Astartes making tech. I mean a single assassin is more dangerous than a single Astartes so if they were easier to make there would be squads of them, maybe even regiments

Yeah.

All about the purpose, I guess.

I mean, the Eversor is, more than anything outside of Tyranids, entirely intended as a living, and dying, weapon. Intentionally jampacked with nasty things you really shouldn’t mix. Not only to ensure it’s super Killy whilst still kicking? But so that as soon as it stops kicking, it becomes a biological bomb of nastiness.

Now, we have to assume you could have made Astartes kinda the same way if you really wanted to. Except that’s not the aim or intention of the Astartes. Rather they’re intended to survive and learn and further hone their skills across multiple battlefields, and not go Ape Nanners Bonkers Mental all the bloody time. Also being at least squad based, you don’t want getting perished, then exploding and killing more of his mates in a daisy chain of exploding kinda like that scene in Kingsman.

The other Temples are of course somewhat more restrained. But they are all modified and genhanced toward their particular specialisation. Callidus at least also include hypno-indoctrination type stuff to help them properly utilise Polymorphine, and not be resigned to life as, well, a highly trained but now useless blob of fleshy muck.

In summary? They’re far, far more than simply humans trained to the absolute zenith of physical fitness and martial prowess. They’re super humans in a class unique to each Temple. Just because they’re not towering in stature doesn’t mean there’s nothing mental under the hood.

 sigkill wrote:
An assassin that exploits bureaucracy to destroy its enemies would be very interesting, and very on point for 40k, too. The joke would be that even though you may rebel, you cannot avoid the crushing inertia of paperwork. Even if having a fellow who shoots a gun real good would be more practical.

Like Gert said, that's kind of what Vanus do.

Agree with OP. The vindicare, while perfectly fine and cool enough I guess, definitely just aren't as flashy or interesting as their peers. They probably appeal to people who are really into tacticool gear or think sniping is just the coolest thing ever, but ultimately they're just not as flashy. The other assassins feel like they're somewhere on the spectrum of superheroes/villains to super spies. Vindicares just feel like snipers with a couple extra gadgets.

A calidus scene involves them exploring/understanding the nuances of a given culture, the psychology of those they impersonate and interact with, all while relating that back to their own strange life experiences and risking someone seeing through their deception. An eversor constantly has metal music pumping in the background while they see just how much violence and gore the studio will allow on screen. A culexus is weird, more alien than the rest, and evokes interesting responses from those around them that make us wonder about the metaphysics of the setting before they unleash some really unusual weapons.

And then you have the vindicare who just lays still for a long time while trying not to let his arm fall asleep. And then he shoots once. And the fact that he lays still for a *really* long time and shoots that one shot *really well* doesn't make it that much more interesting.

I liked the Kingmaker book a lot, but I definitely feel like the main reason they had the vindicare be the party leader was because he would have been really dull otherwise. Kind of like how Robin and Captain America are frequently the leaders of the Titans or the Avengers in their respective properties. Sure, something something leadership skills. But also, making them the leader means they have something slightly more interesting going on when their powers just aren't as innately cool as those of the shape shifters, magic folks, aliens, etc.

Vindicare are to other assassins what Imperial Fists and Iron Warriors and Ultramarines are to the other legions. It's not that they're *boring*. It's just that they're kind of the baseline basic version of what they are. While their peers do all the same stuff while *also* being viking werewolves or shadow teleporters or cyborgs, etc.

Vindicares should all be psychics who specialize in divining the future. They will use these visions to shoot where their target will be. A hyper penetration round going through three buildings the moment the target sneezes a certain way.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
And by no means are the Astartes implants The Absolute Best On The Market. Custodes alone put paid to that.

Astartes are also, compared to Assassins, more mass produced and kinda disposable. So I’m comfortable arguing that if such an implant/enhancement exists, there’s nothing stopping it being markedly superior to the mass production version designed for the Astartes programme.

I'm pretty sure ^^^^ this is heresy.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mr Nobody wrote:
Vindicares should all be psychics who specialize in divining the future. They will use these visions to shoot where their target will be. A hyper penetration round going through three buildings the moment the target sneezes a certain way.

Like this?

-STS

Idk. I think if someone were to intorduce a psychic assassin, there are probably more interesting variations on the concept than just making them shoot a gun extra good.

Guy who sits in a room a mile away meditating and sends his astral self out to rip your army apart while being untouchable, or simply explodes your head at a distance via intense magic ritual. Warp rift specialist who teleports into the room and then turns the floor under your feet into a portal into the warp; deployed to deal with foes that are too durable to kill conventionally so you just have to yeet them into the warp. Mind controllers who turn the target's bodyguards against him. Etc.

Farseers and warlocks used to do the astral projection in 2nd ed with the executioner. Very fun power.

And good old Mind War. That usually sucked to be on the receiving end of.

The coolest take on a psychic assassin is one that manipulates probability to make its target extra unlucky. Just to roll slightly more 1s than usual... That is pretty close to how farseers work, just in the opposite direction.

And I think that is deliberate. I think there would be a severe psychological reaction to your opponent constantly making your actions fail. The game would not be fun any more.

The idea of a psyker assasin is quite fun. It's why in Trench crusade they have blind snipers who use god to guide their bullet. Which is also very 40k, I can see a sister of battle doing that.

A bullet that opens a portal into the warp perhaps? A vortex grenade but localized entirely in the targets cranium.

Could make the the vindicare an glorified spotter? Calling down a super pinpoint lance strike from orbit to re-enact the magnifying glass scene from Antz?

Charax wrote:
Eversors aren't even technically assassins, they don't assassinate people, they are dropped like a bomb into an area and destroy everything in the vicinity

Yeah Eversors were always the most bogus "assassin", they're just super-powerful melee characters. Ghazghkull is a better assassin because he does the same thing but can kill even more people.

I like the Vindicare, he's got his thing going and it makes sense. It's like hating the Basilisk because it's just a big gun on treads. I think that's cool.

Depends on the wider concept.

Your regular or garden variety Assassin will kill a person.

An Eversor Assassin? Those can kill an idea. Literally. The frankly insane mess that they create, win or lose, is frankly staggering.

If you’re some middle ranking survivor of their target’s forces, and you see what happened to your superiors? Theory is you’ll think very, very hard whether to pick up the reins or just go and find the deepest darkest hole you can possibly find and just curl up and pray as hard as you can that whatever was behind the atrocity you saw the aftermath of is very much dead.

Well yeah but a lot of people do that. If the navy lance-strikes a rebellious governor's palace that sends a message, but I hardly count that admiral as an "assassin".

Not the same thing at all.

A Lance strike is impersonal. It’s also, as such things go? Pretty neat and clean, but still causes unavoidable collateral damage.

An Eversor? It’s a hand to hand, close range beast. Everyone and everything it kills? It killed personally. Eye to eye, face to face. And messily so.

The lucky ones cop a Needle Dart. The slightly less lucky ones get sliced and diced by a uniquely powerful Power Sword. The unlucky ones are detonated by a bolt round. Those for whom fate really has it in for get the Neurogauntlet - pumped full of toxins which wreck your organs and drive your muscles to paroxysms sufficient to shatter your bones.

But, and here’s the crucial bit? It leaves the wider environment largely untouched.

Make no mistake. In its own way an Eversor is a weapon of mass destruction. One which once unleashed will continue its bloody trade until it’s killed (and then explodes) or is called off. But it’s also perversely precise. It’s not there to wreck your infrastructure. It’s there to slaughter the very idea of you and your teachings. To put all of those concept into the grave, leaving everything else fairly untouched.

It’s personal.

It’s the Imperium putting on its brass knuckles and smashing your idiot heretic face in, until its punching bloodied bits of bone into the floor.

If no one survives to spread the propaganda of the personal knuckles to the face, then it won't succeed at that.

i would argue the eversor is the least personal because of that. They're less personal than a lance from orbit because at least then everyone will know that an imperial ship turned up personally to execute the emperor's will.

With an eversor, anyone that shows up to the command bunker afterwards will just find everyone dead. In 40k there are an Infinity of options that could have done that, and super secret berserk assassin of the imperium wouldn't be on the list to know about.

See my comment about the Eversor continuing its trade until dead, or called off.

It’s not just turning up for work on Monday and finding the building gone. It’s turning up on Monday and finding your entire office block has become a charnel house with little to no evidence that anyone on your side so much as landed a blow on the mystery assailant.

And if you’re unlucky? Finding out Whodunnit in the worst possible way.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
See my comment about the Eversor continuing its trade until dead, or called off.

It’s not just turning up for work on Monday and finding the building gone. It’s turning up on Monday and finding your entire office block has become a charnel house with little to no evidence that anyone on your side so much as landed a blow on the mystery assailant.

And if you’re unlucky? Finding out Whodunnit in the worst possible way.

Sure. But that could be "Oh god, the Imperium got wind of us and killed everyone!"
It could also be "The Four-Armed Emperor was displeased with us-we need to redouble our efforts!"

The point being that assassins are classified and no one knows about them.

A vindicare shooting a demagogue mid anti imperial speech is a highly personal statement that tells the audience something.

The eversor lacks that statement because the carnage is unclaimed. The mystery scares people but it won't necessarily direct that fear to the imperium. It could have been a rival faction, an alien infestation, chaos, random madness, an exploding blood disease (:p), or anything really.

If you’re a Genestealer Cultist, and the Eversor Has Done Its Job Right?

No Patriarch, no Magus. Basically no High Heedyin.

The hybrids are a mess. The merely infected are, at least temporarily* back to their senses.

*Provided a single Purestrain survived** it will assume the mantle of Patriarch, but it still takes time for its psychic strength to build.

**Pretty likely, as Genestealers are not dumb brutes. Thought exactly how they determine who gets fed into the blender and who scuttles off remains unknown


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Hellebore wrote:
The point being that assassins are classified and no one knows about them.

A vindicare shooting a demagogue mid anti imperial speech is a highly personal statement that tells the audience something.

The eversor lacks that statement because the carnage is unclaimed. The mystery scares people but it won't necessarily direct that fear to the imperium. It could have been a rival faction, an alien infestation, chaos, random madness, an exploding blood disease (:p), or anything really.

For an Eversor hyped up on its unique combination of combat drugs? A quick, crude, finger painting of the Aquila using the copious amounts of vital fluids is no bother.

Also, when you’re in open Rebellion against The Imperium, and suddenly your high command has been literally and metaphorically gutted? You’re not going to wonder if it was Noddy having a bad day.