Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hiya,

Is there any knowledge on the fire rate of lascannons? Based on the table top they have massive range, high damage and excellent accuracy. And there is no apparent reload time so unless 1 lascannons battery only holds a few shots it should wipe out infantry lines and vehicles with ruthlessly efficiency. I can’t think of a 40K book I have ready where anyone deploys lascannons so I don’t have a frame of reference.

An interesting question.

The most nitty gritty rules I can think of for the Lascannon come from Confrontation, the pre-cursor to Necromunda.

It set out that, at least for Underhive purposes, it operated from a battery of regular Lasgun power packs, draining a large number per shot.

I think I’ve the relevant White Dwarf for that. Somewhere. They’re one of the things that got unpacked and shelved after the move, but I’m not sure exactly where.

Will see if I can find it and report back, as that may offer a fire rate.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Found the WD’s (136 and 137), but frustratingly can’t find that information. Poo.

The 2nd ed wargear book notes their slow recharge time.

Only War, Fantasy Flight Games' Guard RPG, has them as a single-shot weapon with five shots per charge pack and two full rounds to reload.

So cumbersome and a fairly low rate of fire - I imagine there's a number of cables to disconnect, a few quick prayers to say to appease the gun and help it cool, that sort of thing - but it's also likely to incinerate anything pretty much anything less sturdy than a tank. The gunner's going to want to make their shots count.

Do the rules offer a rough idea of how much time a round reflects?

Because whilst I don’t seem to have the weapons section of the Confrontation rules, it does offer that each model’s 4 action points represent around 10 seconds of time.

Useless here without knowing how often you need to replace the Lascannon’s power pack though,

A lascannon is total overkill for infantry. They would have this be lined up quite carefully like a conga party to get a lot with one blast.

That’s why the multi laser exists same heavy mount and ammo feeds, but in anti-squishy flavour!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
40k game turns are notoriously flexible in timeline. I have 1-5 minutes in my head for some reason.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Do the rules offer a rough idea of how much time a round reflects?

Because whilst I don’t seem to have the weapons section of the Confrontation rules, it does offer that each model’s 4 action points represent around 10 seconds of time.

Useless here without knowing how often you need to replace the Lascannon’s power pack though,

'Roughly five seconds', according to the Only War combat rules, so pretty standard for TTRPGs. For comparative purposes, Trooper Jonathius Guardsmann can use that time to brace and fire a lascannon, or aim and fire it if it's already braced. He could also move a little and fire his lasgun as a burst or single shot, or suppress with a multilaser in the same amount of time.

It also only takes half a round to slam in a lasgun charge pack, and only one full round to reload a heavy bolter. The lascannon's absolutely presented as a slow-firing, individually devastating support weapon. Ten seconds is a long time to watch those trukks close the distance...

Excerpt from Dark Imperium

"The lascannon fired once and missed. There was a long delay before the second shot clipped the shoulder of Julio’s lead warrior. The force of the impact threw him off balance a little, but he shrugged off the strike and lumbered back into formation, his pauldron dripping molten metal.

A good lascannon team could focus and fire four shots a minute. Calgar’s displeasure at the local Juventia leaders grew."

I would guess optimally, you can fire a shot off every 15 seconds, achieving a fire rate of four rounds (lances? erm bolts?) per minute for presumably an IG las cannon team. I always considered them to have a fire rate of two per minute, similar to Civil War era cannons, since they are meant to melt terminators and vehicles rather than scythe through hordes of gaunts (multi lasers would be more suited to that task)

 Flinty wrote:
A lascannon is total overkill for infantry. They would have this be lined up quite carefully like a conga party to get a lot with one blast.

That’s why the multi laser exists same heavy mount and ammo feeds, but in anti-squishy flavour!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
40k game turns are notoriously flexible in timeline. I have 1-5 minutes in my head for some reason.

But if you are fighting a horde of orks, tryanids or cultists (as is so often described) the. There would be good advantage in braking through the ranks with one blast.

Also if you are fighting space marines who will have heavy weapons carried capable of taking out a whole unit or vehicle, then killing tha one individual with your lascannon is a good idea.

It sounds da like the consensus is 2-4 shots per minute depending on if you are aiming and bracing.

Do lascannons have recoil? I always assumed not. Laser weapons never miss, but they can be pointed in the wrong place was my understanding.

As with all things 40K? It may well vary from model to model.

For instance, a Lanraider’s Godwin Pattern are powered by then tank. So depending on the capacity of the, erm, capacitors and how long it takes to charge them? It strikes me they’ll have a higher rate of fire compared to a man portable one. If nothing else, there’s no swapping over power packs of deal with.

Likewise if memory serves, Astartes Lascannons now hook up to their Armour’s power plant. So again, charging time between shots may not be much different, but you’re still removing the need to switch out exhausted power packs.

Imperial Guard Lascannon of course have an external power pack, which presumably will be switched out when exhausted. How often that might need to be I honestly don’t know.

General tank mounted ones again may vary. Predator sponsons, and Astartes in general I feel will be engine fed like the Godwin pattern. Imperial Guard? Could be some have separate power packs, as their engines aren’t necessarily as advanced as Astartes tank models. But, their tanks having their own sub models could be cause for further variance.

I'm pretty sure in one IG novels it said 2 shots per minute mostly because other way it's overheat to much and can damage focusing mechanics.

Predator turrets have a specific lascannon power pack bustle for use with the twin lascannon armament, and another for use with the autocannon.

The 2nd ed Wargear book has this to say (there is a short bit on lascannon on the 2nd paragraph):


So ideally the power pack on lascannon are swapped out each shot, either because they are entirely drained, or they need to cool a between shots and one weapon should have a few packs available to cycle through (like modern MG barrels I guess).

Ahh, but the turret bustle thing? Could be mounted externally to aid cooling, but still be hooked up to the reactor/engine for charging.

Does anyone have that cutaway of the Predator tank?

Guard's Lascannon's packs are replaceble. Just check hwt or fob lascannons. There is spare packs in a bits.

Weren't the lascannons on Predators originally Space Marine Infantry Lascannons, when the Space Wolves retrofit created the pattern.

In the turret, yes. But the sponsons have always been an integral part of the equipment load.

I would say 15-20 seconds per shot depending on the model and mounting. Not just because of the draw on the power packs, but also for cooling purposes. Lascannons will get quite hot so there is probably an inbuilt safety mechanism limiting the rate of fire so it can cool sufficiently in between.

If anything the cooling is probably the biggest limitation on how fast you can fire.

There are probably as many answers to this as there are Forge Worlds that make the weapon.

I know in Space Marine you can wield a Lascannon, so that's at least one point of reference for shot timing.

I wouldn't take any of the times/weapons in a video game as indicative of timing(or really anything) in the fluff as those are built around game balance and not strict fluff adherence.

Take SM1's Meltagun for instance. The fluff describes meltas as a beam but SM1 treats it as a shotgun blast.

Ah, so that distinctive triangular nozzle on las weapons is the flash supressor. Didnt know that

Low rate of fire point weapons aren't usually ideal for horde control. This is what grenade launchers and that are for, or indeed, scatter laser/multilaser, which is why its included in the Sentinel kit etc

lascannons can have a fairly high ROF apparently. in 'Double Eagle', one of the rookie Phantine pilots empties his thunderbolt's lascannon batteries in under thirty seconds when getting into a dogfight and forgetting to switch over to autocannons. worst bit is he didn't hit anything , he just kept the trigger down while trying to walk his shots onto an enemy fighter they way you would with the autocannons. he didn't even realize his mistake until the lascannons ran dry.

i suspect that the RoF would depend on the model of lascannon, the power system it is hooked to, and what the cannon's systems are set to.

And that is on a Thunderbolt which would have extensive cooling systems. Its probably intentional that they could fire all their ammo in one salvo if necessary.

There is two explanation
First is that tb have better cooling, and second author don't give a gak about how inunivers weapon working. I believe first. Also there is huge amount of air helps cool down the guns.

Definitely going to depend.

Those mounted to aircraft would presumably have a higher rate of fire. Not so much for dog fighting, but for striking land based targets.

Sure, in an ideal situation your opponent has no aerial assets, or much in the way of reliable AA options, and will be formed up in a very nice orderly column, and you’ll have caught them with their pants down in open country with few if any places where they might manage to hide.

Naturally, you cannot assume that and are probably wise to assume the opposite.

So, when you’ve an opening? You have to make the most of it. A cycling rate of even a few seconds is no bloody good, due to the speed you’re moving at, and your oddly limited manouverabiity compared to those scuttling around on the ground. That means you need a higher rate of fire, to really take advantage of your rapid, in and out strike.

It could be that aircraft go through Lascannon Barrels very quickly as a result. But with their general need to retreat and rearm already baked into your supply logistics? That’s not necessarily the problem it would be for ground based assaults. And we know that, aircraft superstructure not withstanding? Las Weapons are noted for the ease of such basic maintenance.

And now on a tangential thought? I’m wondering if used barrels are able to be recalibrated and refurbished? It may not be especially common for more run of mill Las weapons. But again, one imagines for those with finer tolerance and build quality? It might help maximise on-hand resources. Even if such calibration only works a few times.

 kabaakaba wrote:
There is two explanation
First is that tb have better cooling, and second author don't give a gak about how inunivers weapon working. I believe first. Also there is huge amount of air helps cool down the guns.

You'd think that a pilot would be able to identify the difference in appearance between a lascannon and an autocannon firing in under 30 seconds...

It's obviously playing up to the 'WW2 pilots only had ~45 seconds of ammunition angle of 'Battle of Britain but in spaaace', but it's still pretty stupid.

That’s kind of the point in the book though. The pilot is young and arrogant and his is a core part of his character arc.

Also, if you only have ammo/charge for say, 6 shots, and that specific model of Lascannon as a fire rate of 240 shots per minute? Not gonna take long at all to exhaust your charge, even if the weapon isn’t fully automatic and needs the trigger to be depressed for each shot.

Numbers entirely out of my arse for illustration only.

 Lord Damocles wrote:


It's obviously playing up to the 'WW2 pilots only had ~45 seconds of ammunition angle of 'Battle of Britain but in spaaace', but it's still pretty stupid.

I mean, not necessarily unrealistic. The F-22 has all of 6 seconds of ammo for its rotary cannon.

It does tell us that at least one model of Thunderbolt doesn’t have its Lascannons hooked up to the reactor/engine, instead relying on attached power packs.

Or, I suppose, that the rate of fire attempted was too high, and prevented intended cooldown times which might, if they are hooked up to the reactor/engine, otherwise provide more shots when you’ve not over stressed the barrels and focussing arrays and that.

 Lord Damocles wrote:

 kabaakaba wrote:
There is two explanation
First is that tb have better cooling, and second author don't give a gak about how inunivers weapon working. I believe first. Also there is huge amount of air helps cool down the guns.

You'd think that a pilot would be able to identify the difference in appearance between a lascannon and an autocannon firing in under 30 seconds...

It's obviously playing up to the 'WW2 pilots only had ~45 seconds of ammunition angle of 'Battle of Britain but in spaaace', but it's still pretty stupid.

I've recently read the book because I got a hold of the new one of the series.

Simple mistake by a rookie pilot at the very start of the book essentially. Thunderbolts are pre-programmed with the lascannons armed and you need to toggle to fire the quad autocannons. In the "oh plums" moment of being buzzed by enemy fighters and dogfighting, pressed the big red shoot button down until the lascannon batteries went dead. Oopsie. So the rookie flattens the charge in a few overcharged 'bursts'.

Also based on the books in question, the thunderbolts have better missions time than current planes. So not really the Battle of Britain thing at all, beyond it being a novel about fighter planes defending an island of course.