well that explains the alleged borg concept art that was floating around not so long ago, looks awful to be honest from that trailer, its got bad reboot written all over it but as with STD I will watch it to make an informed critique.
Thanks. I searched and found this one as well. God, Stewart looks and sounds so damn old (and obviously he is); it worked form him as Professor X in short bursts in the recent xmen trilogy and Logan but I'm not sure about this return. Jeri Ryan on the other hand was a pleasant surprise though. So apparently the girl is some sort of a borg then?
Cloned Borg queen for the section 31 Borg cube the clandestine organisation is rebuilding for the federation which will lead to it getting loose and Picard with his plucky band of losers having to find away to unlock her true power (love) and save the federation .....
Maybe not Borg, but the trailer definitely implied some kind of connection between mystery girl and the Borg (would also explain why she might go to Picard, aka Locutus, for help and feel safe with him), and I find myself leaning toward Formosa that it sounds ripe for contrived and dreadful storytelling ala Discovery. But I like Patrick Stewart enough, and I almost feel compelled to poke in and watch just to see Seven of Nine and Data/Data's brother whose name I forget from Nemesis and what's up with them.
Also, now that I think of it I find myself questioning the description of this series as a psychological exploration of Picard's character. it doesn't look like it. It looks like a spy thriller vis Star Trek. A Psychological exploration of Picard, with slow and long conversation with other returning cast would be way more interesting to me, exploring the impact of the man on the universe and talking about what came of it since we last peaked in. The girl/borg/samurai Vulcan bit looks like the least interesting part of this show, and I feel damn sure it'll make up most of the run time.
Lore? He was also in more than Nemesis. Considering they showed the body and Picard said that Data died saving him I'm guessing the card game is in a holodeck with Data imprinted into it or just a pure simulation. I don't know what/who Formosa is so off to the interwebs!
All that being said I'm a simple man: no Q no subscription.
The Borg connection with the girl sends obvious from the trailer progression (my first thought was that she's the Borg queen before she was Borg, somehow catapulted into our originally from the future) but hopefully that means it's a bit of misdirection and she's actually something else entirely.
Nice surprise seeing Jeri Ryan and Brent Spiner, particularly after the early rumors had all said that none of the TNG cast had been asked back, other than Jonathan Frakes who was brought in to do some directing.
What if it is Q's Daughter that lost her powers and forgot she is Q?
Also, i was hating it until i saw 7of9 and i got silver catsuit flashbacks and all is forgiven
I'm getting a horrible creeping suspicion that it won't be long before people start seeing the Novelverse's handling of the Borg as literary genius by comparison.
Formosa wrote: Cloned Borg queen for the section 31 Borg cube the clandestine organisation is rebuilding for the federation which will lead to it getting loose and Picard with his plucky band of losers having to find away to unlock her true power (love) and save the federation .....
This is so awful I bet it's true haha
I also have bad feelings about this. There is good in there, but most of it looks like trash, and once again we have more evidence that the current group of writers and producers do not know what Trek is.
It's about exploration and discovery.
"ShE wIlL bE dA EnD oF aLl ThInGs!!! hur durrrrrrrr"
Feth off with that gak. Send it back to star wars and other B movie scifi where it belongs....
Maybe not Borg, but the trailer definitely implied some kind of connection between mystery girl and the Borg (would also explain why she might go to Picard, aka Locutus, for help and feel safe with him), and I find myself leaning toward Formosa that it sounds ripe for contrived and dreadful storytelling ala Discovery. But I like Patrick Stewart enough, and I almost feel compelled to poke in and watch just to see Seven of Nine and Data/Data's brother whose name I forget from Nemesis and what's up with them.
Also, now that I think of it I find myself questioning the description of this series as a psychological exploration of Picard's character. it doesn't look like it. It looks like a spy thriller vis Star Trek. A Psychological exploration of Picard, with slow and long conversation with other returning cast would be way more interesting to me, exploring the impact of the man on the universe and talking about what came of it since we last peaked in. The girl/borg/samurai Vulcan bit looks like the least interesting part of this show, and I feel damn sure it'll make up most of the run time.
Seven is a great addition. Of all the people int he Galaxy, she needs to seek out Picard. He's the only one who understands her. Honestly, I have thought for decades that this is what would have happened. It's just unfortunate that we're going to have yet again another "Mount Doom the Universe to Hell" story instead of what could be ernest trek.
I'm wondering if the Borg thing is a sign Janeway was successful in destroying the Collective at the end of Voyager.
It could mean the Borg being seemingly held prisoner are former assimilates who decided to return to the Alpha Quadrant, seeking their old homes and lives?
With 7o9 showing up, do you guys think we will see other Star Trek Alumni? Possibly Janeway or Sisko.........last one might not be possible.
Maybe even, IDK, Quark?
If not Ben Sisko, Jake Sisko would be interesting to see, and his younger sister... Sibling? Can't remember if the series ever confirmed the baby's sex. She was a she in the continuation novels.
7 of 9 working with/meeting Picard seems like such a duh thing. I never thought of it, but now that I have...
He seems like one of the few people that would understand what she went through, as previously mentioned, and I imagine Picard would be the go to Federation guy for ex-Collective members.
Voss wrote: Well, at least Spiner has a couple reasons to not be dead in this (unlike his character in another sequel).
Whats with the weird Vulcan(?) with the sword (?). His face looks heavily CGI'd for no reason I can discern. I hereby dub him Samurai Elf.
I think its a Romulan.
Whichever.
Though thinking about it, I'm surprised the actor wasn't a background character in the Very Special Episodes where Picard, Data and Spock try to bring True Freedom to Romulus. The running gag for the trailer seems to be to tie in as many minor TNG plot points as possible.
If he ends up being Tasha Yar's grandson, I'm gonna yark.
Voss wrote: This looks like its going to be 'Misfits and Renegades visit the seedy hidden underbellies of Utopia and the Admirals/Section 31 are always evil.'
So, we're still not getting any real trek then. :(
LordofHats wrote: It does sound increasing like someone watched Star Trek Renegades and for some god awful reason thought that god awful movie had redeeming value.
What is wrong with a return to the old formula? It worked for three god damned shows!
CBS All Access is doing six Star Trek shorts, four of which take place on the Enterprise during Pike's command. One is about Spock's first day assigned to the ship and one will somehow relate to Tribbles. I don't know much more than that but as I understand it there was info at SDCC about them.
Ahtman wrote: CBS All Access is doing six Star Trek shorts, four of which take place on the Enterprise during Pike's command. One is about Spock's first day assigned to the ship and one will somehow relate to Tribbles. I don't know much more than that but as I understand it there was info at SDCC about them.
Still waiting to hear about:
What happened to Ben Sisko after the final episode.
What happened to Cardassia.
What happened to and with the Dominion remnants.
Did the Romulans go back to being dicks or did they become more amiable?
What became of the Borg after unimatrix 01?
What changes did Janeway's time traveling make?
Did Bajor join the federation?
Did Martok and Worf lead the Klingon empire out of its decadent ways?
Was Lore ever reactivated and fixed?
What became of the Ferengi Alliance under the leadership of Rom?
Did Nog make captain?
CBS:
Here we're going to make some tribble shorts and let picard run around with a bunch of samurai trying to "pReVeNt Da EnD oF Al L ThInGs!!! huuuur durrrr"
I agree with you on that score Togusa, but still, the trailer and the delay have made me marginally more optimistic.
That's still only enough to raise me from "utterly disinterested" to "paying some minimal attention", but if I'm honest that's as much as CBS could hope to get out of me for anything short of an announcement that CBS and Viacom had re-merged, sacked Kurtzman & Co, dismissed the whole Discoverse as some weird alternate reality to which season 3 of STD would provide a definitive close, and hired on some talent with serious fan-cred to go forward.
I hold no illusions that Picard will live up to TNG, but if the delays were to end up being indicative of reshoots to bring the tone & aesthetic more into line with classic Trek as was previously rumoured, then it could maybe rise to the level of the better TNG-era movies.
In other words, we're almost certainly not getting Measure of a Man, but we might get a knockoff of First Contact, and that's probably the very best we could hope for out of the present bunch of galoots running the show.
Ok, sure it's not 'official' but it gives at least some measure of closure on various things. Last year they did a big DS9 set of missions, that, while it didn't do Sisko, did resolve a lot of other arcs, in their own way. And had the voices of most of the main DS9 cast to do so.
Honestly, for a 'free to play' game, there's a huge amount of proper content in it and I honestly think you could play through the whole thing without paying a penny quite comfortably.
STO has near zero replay value without paying money (it’s all about pay to be good micro transactions now), but it does have a heaping hunk of story content and player made adventures.
Unfortunately STO doesn’t answer a lot of those questions either. Many of the returning cast and figures are always kind of just off center stage and some of the later storylines are really contrived.
What happened to Cardassia.
What happened to and with the Dominion remnants.
Did the Romulans go back to being dicks or did they become more amiable?
Did Bajor join the federation?
Did Martok and Worf lead the Klingon empire out of its decadent ways?
What became of the Ferengi Alliance under the leadership of Rom?
Did Nog make captain?
The way I see it, a free to play game with what's got to be well over a hundred missions by now, wouldn't necessarily need a lot of replay value, because it's free. - You could play through, enjoy your time in the story, and world, then put it down again not having lost anything, except the time spent enjoying the story and world.
Voss wrote: This looks like its going to be 'Misfits and Renegades visit the seedy hidden underbellies of Utopia and the Admirals/Section 31 are always evil.'
So, we're still not getting any real trek then. :(
Well, the Admirals are Secretly Evil is a consistent and very, very repetitive refrain from the TNG era. So its real Trek in a way.
There's the racist one with the McCarthy trials aimed at mixed blood Romulans
The other sort of 'robo-racist' one that tries to claim Data and his 'daughter' as property
The breaking treaties with cloaking devices one
The whole passel that are <secretly working for/possessed by/actually are> gooey, spindly and laughable alien puppets (a plot that goes nowhere and gets abandoned because it was just that bad)
Various ones (including in DS9) that go secret police crazy, are involved in cover ups, Bad Science or whatever.
The episodes tended to be bad, but it was a definitely a large element of 'real trek'
As for Lore being reactivated and fixed, I still think we're going to see that (and Picard teaching Lore the Right Way to be Human) rather than a Picard and Data buddy show.
LordofHats wrote: STO has near zero replay value without paying money (it’s all about pay to be good micro transactions now), but it does have a heaping hunk of story content and player made adventures.
Unfortunately STO doesn’t answer a lot of those questions either. Many of the returning cast and figures are always kind of just off center stage and some of the later storylines are really contrived.
They also sadly no longer have the player made content either, it got shut down recently.
Well that’s another one in the “let’s ruin a good f2p game” column. Oh well. It’s been going downhill ever since Agents of Yesterday and it’s naked and empty pandering.
Any news from the "biggest trek convention" going on right now in Las Vegas? It's been two days and none of the youtubers that typically cover trek (whether negatively or positively) have posted any notable news. Did CBS blow their was at SDCC and have nothing more to report of am I missing it all?
StraightSilver wrote: My theory is that the girl is Chakotay and Seven's daughter - some sort of Borg/Human hybrid.
Given the strong appearances of what I assume are Romulans, I wouldn't be surprised to see some of that green bloodedness thrown into a mix of human and borg (and hell. . . maybe somehow even Klingon? )
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LordofHats wrote: Well that’s another one in the “let’s ruin a good f2p game” column. Oh well. It’s been going downhill ever since Agents of Yesterday and it’s naked and empty pandering.
Apparently the player generated content was based on code from nearly a couple generations of game code previously. . . Essentially, anyone who had a hand in creating the Foundry code is long gone, and as a result, ANY updates to the game broke the Foundry for days afterward.
IDW will publish a three-issue prequel comic tying into CBS’s Star Trek: Picard in November, CBS revealed in a press release. Star Trek: Picard – Countdown will be written by Mike Johnson along with Picard producer Kirsten Beyer, exploring a life-changing mission for the titular captain. In addition to the comic, Simon & Schuster Gallery Books will publish The Last Best Hope, a prequel novel (one without pictures), in February, written by Una McCormack.
Both books will be set in continuity and connected to the Picard TV series, based on the bald guy from the popular internet meme, which will debut on CBS All Access next year. In the show, the man from the meme plays the captain of a space ship.
New York, NY (August 1, 2019) – CBS Consumer Products, in association with Simon & Shuster’s Gallery Books and IDW, today announced a pair of prequels created to shed light on the events leading into the new CBS series Star Trek: Picard.
Starting in November, IDW will release Star Trek: Picard – Countdown, a deluxe 3-issue miniseries written by Mike Johnson and series Supervising Producer Kirsten Beyer. This countdown event centers around a mission that would go on to change the life of beloved Star Trek captain Jean-Luc Picard – widely considered to be one of the most popular and recognizable characters in all of science fiction.
Following that series concluding, Simon & Schuster Gallery Books will release The Last Best Hope in February 2020. Written by Una McCormack, the novel will also lead directly into the show and continue to introduce fans to brand new characters featured in the series. McCormack is the author of eight previous Star Trek novels including The Lotus Flower (part of The Worlds of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine), Hollow Men, Enigma Tales, The Way to the Stars, and the New York Times bestseller The Fall: The Crimson Shadow.
As part of the upcoming release of their next series Star Trek: Picard, CBS will be releasing two new specialty wines in the theme of the series. CBS Consumer Products have licensed the first of two new wines with Wines That Rock which will be released in conjunction with the show. They are a 2016 Chateau Picard Cru Bourgeois from Bordeaux, France, and a Special Reserve United Federation of Planets Old Vine Zinfandel.
As part of the release, the first 1701 two-bottle combo packs include a numbered, limited edition of the United Federation of Planets Special Reserve. Those first 1701 collectors will have priority notices on all future releases so they can get the next batches of wine ahead of time. As part of the promotion, the wines will be featured this week at Star Trek Las Vegas. You can read more about the wines below along with a quote from the announcement this week.
Wines That Rock has teamed with the actual Chateau Picard vineyard to introduce the Star Trek Chateau Picard wine. The 2016 Chateau Picard Bordeaux is an 85% Cabernet Sauvignon and 15% Merlot blend that is subtly smoky and spicy with a bright, fresh, clean-tasting style. The wine spends 14 months in oak, 70% seasoned and 30% new.
The United Federation of Planets wine is a 2017 Old Vine Zinfandel from across the Dry Creek & Russian River Valleys in Sonoma County, CA. It is a blend of 87% Zinfandel, 12% Petit Sirah and 1% Syrah. It has aromatics of concentrated strawberry, blackberry and plum preserves with a chewy-layered mid-palate filled with hints of white peppercorn, sweet red and black fruit. Elegant, stately and dignified are but a few words to describe the wine that Federation dignitaries might enjoy at their gatherings.
“Star Trek Wines has brought out the true passions of our entire team. It was a unique opportunity to work with award-winning winemakers and the CBS Consumer Products team to create a collection with authentic stories,” said Wines That Rock’s President Howard Jackowitz. “Our goal has been to produce small batch, limited-edition, collectible wines that we as fans want to own. This is what we are all about – creating a product that is genuine with a great story behind it. Live long and prosper!”
...Gather it's a fruity and strong bodied wine with subtle hints of charred nephew.
... too soon ?
The previous posts and the above led me to various trek sites....
.. I know there's a LOT of trek novels -- and being the completist I am this is one of the reasons I can never delve into them -- but I had no idea about Picard and Crusher's son, who he maries etc etc and so forth.
...Gather it's a fruity and strong bodied wine with subtle hints of charred nephew.
... too soon ?
The previous posts and the above led me to various trek sites....
.. I know there's a LOT of trek novels -- and being the completist I am this is one of the reasons I can never delve into them -- but I had no idea about Picard and Crusher's son, who he maries etc etc and so forth.
Good grief.
My hope is that the Chateau Picard isn't vinegary and past its date. Strangely enough, I worry about the same thing for the show.
As for the novels, I remember reading many good ones during the 80's and 90's as a kid but haven't kept up in the past 20 years. Alot of those really good earlier ones have been completely invalidated by subsequent TV shows from TNG to STD so that might be another reason to not get it if reading retconned background bothers you. If a wine brand and a revamped version of a decade old comic are the only real news from what they billed as the biggest trek only convention in the world, I feel a bit sorry for the folks paying upwards of a thousand dollars including travel expenses to be there. :(
IDW will publish a three-issue prequel comic tying into CBS’s Star Trek: Picard in November, CBS revealed in a press release. Star Trek: Picard – Countdown will be written by Mike Johnson along with Picard producer Kirsten Beyer, exploring a life-changing mission for the titular captain. In addition to the comic, Simon & Schuster Gallery Books will publish The Last Best Hope, a prequel novel (one without pictures), in February, written by Una McCormack.
Both books will be set in continuity and connected to the Picard TV series, based on the bald guy from the popular internet meme, which will debut on CBS All Access next year. In the show, the man from the meme plays the captain of a space ship.
New York, NY (August 1, 2019) – CBS Consumer Products, in association with Simon & Shuster’s Gallery Books and IDW, today announced a pair of prequels created to shed light on the events leading into the new CBS series Star Trek: Picard.
Starting in November, IDW will release Star Trek: Picard – Countdown, a deluxe 3-issue miniseries written by Mike Johnson and series Supervising Producer Kirsten Beyer. This countdown event centers around a mission that would go on to change the life of beloved Star Trek captain Jean-Luc Picard – widely considered to be one of the most popular and recognizable characters in all of science fiction.
Following that series concluding, Simon & Schuster Gallery Books will release The Last Best Hope in February 2020. Written by Una McCormack, the novel will also lead directly into the show and continue to introduce fans to brand new characters featured in the series. McCormack is the author of eight previous Star Trek novels including The Lotus Flower (part of The Worlds of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine), Hollow Men, Enigma Tales, The Way to the Stars, and the New York Times bestseller The Fall: The Crimson Shadow.
As part of the upcoming release of their next series Star Trek: Picard, CBS will be releasing two new specialty wines in the theme of the series. CBS Consumer Products have licensed the first of two new wines with Wines That Rock which will be released in conjunction with the show. They are a 2016 Chateau Picard Cru Bourgeois from Bordeaux, France, and a Special Reserve United Federation of Planets Old Vine Zinfandel.
As part of the release, the first 1701 two-bottle combo packs include a numbered, limited edition of the United Federation of Planets Special Reserve. Those first 1701 collectors will have priority notices on all future releases so they can get the next batches of wine ahead of time. As part of the promotion, the wines will be featured this week at Star Trek Las Vegas. You can read more about the wines below along with a quote from the announcement this week.
Wines That Rock has teamed with the actual Chateau Picard vineyard to introduce the Star Trek Chateau Picard wine. The 2016 Chateau Picard Bordeaux is an 85% Cabernet Sauvignon and 15% Merlot blend that is subtly smoky and spicy with a bright, fresh, clean-tasting style. The wine spends 14 months in oak, 70% seasoned and 30% new.
The United Federation of Planets wine is a 2017 Old Vine Zinfandel from across the Dry Creek & Russian River Valleys in Sonoma County, CA. It is a blend of 87% Zinfandel, 12% Petit Sirah and 1% Syrah. It has aromatics of concentrated strawberry, blackberry and plum preserves with a chewy-layered mid-palate filled with hints of white peppercorn, sweet red and black fruit. Elegant, stately and dignified are but a few words to describe the wine that Federation dignitaries might enjoy at their gatherings.
“Star Trek Wines has brought out the true passions of our entire team. It was a unique opportunity to work with award-winning winemakers and the CBS Consumer Products team to create a collection with authentic stories,” said Wines That Rock’s President Howard Jackowitz. “Our goal has been to produce small batch, limited-edition, collectible wines that we as fans want to own. This is what we are all about – creating a product that is genuine with a great story behind it. Live long and prosper!”
...Gather it's a fruity and strong bodied wine with subtle hints of charred nephew.
... too soon ?
The previous posts and the above led me to various trek sites....
.. I know there's a LOT of trek novels -- and being the completist I am this is one of the reasons I can never delve into them -- but I had no idea about Picard and Crusher's son, who he maries etc etc and so forth.
Well, the convention ended a week ago in Vegas and I haven't seen anything other than what I'd consider to be trivial "news" announced at the con. At least one congoer seems to confirm my suspicions/fears unfortunately that they announced everything they had at SDCC and left nothing of note for the most dedicated fans at STLV. YMMV as always in case someone here was really happy for tiny nuggets of info about the upcoming Lower Decks cartoon.
Thargrim wrote: That wine would look great next to my blade runner 2049 johnnie walker bottle. Don't even want to know the cost though.
In that case, photoshop the label, stick it on a empty wine bottle and fill it with Ribena. A shelf of novelty drinks bottles from various fiction properties would be cool*, but the actual contents of those bottles would be irrelevant - tap water and ink will do just as well.
Make-up chair resistance is futile! In preparation for his upcoming role on CBS All Access‘s Star Trek: Picard, actor Jonathan Del Arco had to do some modeling in the make-up trailer. However, rather than walking down a runway, Del Arco was covered in grey goop. Del Arco took to Twitter to share a time-lapse video of Picard crew members making a cast of his face on set. If you look carefully at the below video, you can see Seven-of-Nine herself, Jeri Ryan, providing moral support in the background.
In Picard, Del Arco will be reprising the role of Hugh, a former member of the Borg that first appeared on Star Trek: The Next Generation. The actor teased that, like Seven-of-Nine, Hugh will have a new look in the new series. However, he couldn’t share any details about Hugh’s new look. Seven, who appears in the Picard trailer, has been freed from most of her Borg enhancements. It would only make sense that Hugh would be sporting less hardware as well. Del Arco even went the extra mile to protect fans from unnecessary speculation, stating in a later tweet that most Star Trek cast members have to go through the process before their final show make-up is approved.
"This does not confirm anything about Hugh’s make up pretty much everyone on StarTrek (aliens in particular) have these done before final design is complete and approved - sometimes it’s never used... but you’ll have to wait and see"
But, what fun are these types of behind-the-scenes videos without a little speculation? Notably, the casting material completely covered Del Arco’s left eye. Fans will remember that Hugh had a Borg implant completely surrounding his left eye. The fact that the casting material covered the actor’s left eye, but not his right, might indicate that Hugh will still be sporting some high-tech eyewear. Or maybe we are all wrong and Hugh is still sporting the same look he had before? In a StarTrek.com video Del Arco did spill that Hugh is living on a Borg cube when Picard finds him. Maybe he is still more Borg than anything else?
No idea. It was supposed to be Oct/Nov this year initially but that was pushed back to 2020 months ago. I haven't seen an update on that but I don't follow it directly myself.
Well, after getting a warning from CBS this week, it looks like the Axanar fan film has started filming today and they're live streaming it. It seems like they're getting mostly background audio at the moment (18-20 people walking around a mic mumbling, clapping, screaming, talking, etc). If you're a backer, don't get too excited as this is only the first of multiple (four?) scheduled filming periods spread out across multiple locations in the US and there is plenty of rope for them to hang themselves with even if CBS doesn't follow up their warning with any legal action. The history of (mis)management on this once promising project is very deep unfortunately.
That video is unfortunately region locked for me. I don't know if it is the new trailer released yesterday at NYCC but, if it is, it should say at the end that the release is iirc Jan 23rd, 2020. More tabletop gaming news from NYCC as well with a preview of the second (delayed and split) upcoming half of the heroclix TNG set. The first half came out about two weeks ago.
Yeah I still don't know how to feel about this show. I can't tell if the trailers are crammed with action shots and dual-wielding phaser rifles because they're trailers and executives think those have to be action-packed to keep anyone's attention for more than five seconds, or if that's representative of the show and they've just entirely missed the point of why people liked TNG.
Yodhrin wrote: Yeah I still don't know how to feel about this show. I can't tell if the trailers are crammed with action shots and dual-wielding phaser rifles because they're trailers and executives think those have to be action-packed to keep anyone's attention for more than five seconds, or if that's representative of the show and they've just entirely missed the point of why people liked TNG.
First Contact was action packed and I really enjoyed it - but I am more of a DS9 fan so i did not enjoy Insurrection.
Hoping Seven is still quite happy to speak her mind
Yodhrin wrote: Yeah I still don't know how to feel about this show. I can't tell if the trailers are crammed with action shots and dual-wielding phaser rifles because they're trailers and executives think those have to be action-packed to keep anyone's attention for more than five seconds, or if that's representative of the show and they've just entirely missed the point of why people liked TNG.
First Contact was action packed and I really enjoyed it - but I am more of a DS9 fan so i did not enjoy Insurrection.
Hoping Seven is still quite happy to speak her mind
Action packed Trek is fine as part of the recipe, as the odd film or two-parter, but it's not what I want out of a Trek series. Which is why I don't know how to feel about the trailers; if they're just a smash-cut of all the actiony parts of the series but the rest is more focused on science & philosophy & ethics? Cool. But if they're actually representative of the overall tone of the show then it's just one more nail in the coffin for me.
Yodhrin wrote: Yeah I still don't know how to feel about this show. I can't tell if the trailers are crammed with action shots and dual-wielding phaser rifles because they're trailers and executives think those have to be action-packed to keep anyone's attention for more than five seconds, or if that's representative of the show and they've just entirely missed the point of why people liked TNG.
It's nuTrek post 2009. No reason it has to be an either or situation.
Data looks weird as middle aged guy(problem with aging actors for charater that shouldn't really age). And boy riker looks older than picard! But good to know he shows up
One of the YouTube commenters on the trailer had a great point; forget Picard, can we just have the Seven of Nine as the Federation’s A-Team style fixer as a stand-alone series please!
Also, looks like they’re going down the “android slave race” theme?
This is looking suspiciously like yet another "gak on the Federation" series.
Immigration allegory is apparently a major theme, which pretty much requires the "country" people are coming to to be a bunch of gits. Both Picard and Seven apparently feel the need to go outside Starfleet and operate as Super Dope Dual Wielding Ninjas etc.
Given STD Season 3 will apparently have the Federation in a state of total collapse so Kurtzman's Best Girl can save the whole entire galaxy this time, I can see them "laying the groundwork" for that future by pushing a Last Days of Rome angle where the utopian future society that's solved pretty much all the social, political, and medical ills that plague humanity develops a terminal case of Stupid Antagonist for no reason whatsoever.
Also yeah, apparently Measure of a Man and Author Author never happened. Ugh.
I was initially excited for this but I feel like it may be quite unpleasant. A bit of a nostalgia trip seeing these people back in their roles. But that's about it, star trek has become something else now. You gotta watch the orville for anything resembling the feeling star trek once had.
Yodhrin wrote: This is looking suspiciously like yet another "gak on the Federation" series.
Immigration allegory is apparently a major theme, which pretty much requires the "country" people are coming to to be a bunch of gits. Both Picard and Seven apparently feel the need to go outside Starfleet and operate as Super Dope Dual Wielding Ninjas etc.
Given STD Season 3 will apparently have the Federation in a state of total collapse so Kurtzman's Best Girl can save the whole entire galaxy this time, I can see them "laying the groundwork" for that future by pushing a Last Days of Rome angle where the utopian future society that's solved pretty much all the social, political, and medical ills that plague humanity develops a terminal case of Stupid Antagonist for no reason whatsoever.
Also yeah, apparently Measure of a Man and Author Author never happened. Ugh.
Good point about the unfortunate interconnection between the two with Picard laying the groundwork for STD3. And, yeah, the hamfisted modern political allegory insertion is pretty obvious yet again (although with Romulans and the Federation standing in for he who shall not be named instead of the Klingons and the Federation). As for Seven dual wielding, it didn't make me optimistic either and she was a surprise high point (pretty much the only one) of the first trailer for me. Maybe it's best to think of this instead as a sequel to the Elite Force video games instead of Berman era trek shows?
AduroT wrote: If there’s one thing I can’t stand, it political allegories or social commentaries in my Star Trek.
I disagree. In past trek, complex and nuanced issues were dealt with in a way that at least tried to examine both sides of the coin whilst still most of the time (but not always!) still coming to a conclusion regarding what was considered morally the correct choice for the ideals of the Federation. In modern trek/hollywood, it's a not a scapel to dissect the arguement carefully but a sledgehammer to smash it and everything nearby in pieces both front of and behind the camera by the characters and actors respectively. From your post, I suspect that key difference is lost on you. Plus, many people who actually agree with lots of the sentiments expressed like me are sick and tired of having them inserted constantly as opposed to sparingly like in years past into every show. It's the rule nowadays instead of the exception in all shows and not just trek (which used to be unique in that regard) and that overexposure in what is supposed to be escapist entertainment plays into it as well.
You did see that TNG episode when there were the parasite aliens in the neck and Riker and Picard shot a guy and his head was stripped and exploded and another alien creature was within his corpse?
You did see that TNG episode when there were the parasite aliens in the neck and Riker and Picard shot a guy and his head was stripped and exploded and another alien creature was within his corpse?
That was a weird one both visually and thematically as I don't understand to this day why they included it. I mean it was during the first season and they were just trying to find their footing and still ironing out how TNG would continue on the heels of the original series show and movies but it still feels off to me to this day. It's like they were trying to be edgy by showing some gore as well as show off some special effects (that to me looks quite dodgy anyways) to justfiy their status as the most expensive (at the time) syndicated show to date. I don't recall them ever trying something remotely like that again until maybe Nog's combat amputation (although I don't recall the exact details of that scene so I could be remembering the emotion rather than actual gore). Typically it was just much less detailed disintegration like with the woman who helped Data escape from the evil collector guy who kidnapped him. Am I forgetting or blocking out other gory things in TNG?
You did see that TNG episode when there were the parasite aliens in the neck and Riker and Picard shot a guy and his head was stripped and exploded and another alien creature was within his corpse?
I don't think that was on stun though was it? It wasn't often on network tv you got to see a head explode semi-graphically.
Yeah to be fair I don't think it was. Stun didn't seem to have any effect on those parasite people.
The episode was indeed a little odd and they never resolved the storyline. There was a transmission that went off into space. Perhaps it'll come and haunt Picard in the future? They do tackle it in Star Trek Online, which is roughly seen as canon in a lot of places (ie: the destruction of Romulus etc).
It was a rarity in gore too... but also it was edited in the BBC when it first aired. Even I couldn't remember it on the reruns on Sky in the UK. I watched it on the Bluray and was like "what the hell just happened... I don't remember this"
TarkinLarson wrote: Yeah to be fair I don't think it was. Stun didn't seem to have any effect on those parasite people.
The episode was indeed a little odd and they never resolved the storyline. There was a transmission that went off into space. Perhaps it'll come and haunt Picard in the future? They do tackle it in Star Trek Online, which is roughly seen as canon in a lot of places (ie: the destruction of Romulus etc).
It was a rarity in gore too... but also it was edited in the BBC when it first aired. Even I couldn't remember it on the reruns on Sky in the UK. I watched it on the Bluray and was like "what the hell just happened... I don't remember this"
Those Parasites where meant to be younger Borg. They where meant to be bug creatures, but those where deemed too expensive to be recurring villains, so they instead made the Borg robots that they could make from things around the kitchen.
The episode was indeed a little odd and they never resolved the storyline. There was a transmission that went off into space. Perhaps it'll come and haunt Picard in the future? They do tackle it in Star Trek Online, which is roughly seen as canon in a lot of places (ie: the destruction of Romulus etc).
It was originally meant to tie into the eventual introduction of the Borg, with the bluegills being forerunners for the primary Borg invasion. They scrapped that storyline and let the Borg stand alone thanks to Qs big brain.
You did see that TNG episode when there were the parasite aliens in the neck and Riker and Picard shot a guy and his head was stripped and exploded and another alien creature was within his corpse?
That was a weird one both visually and thematically as I don't understand to this day why they included it. I mean it was during the first season and they were just trying to find their footing and still ironing out how TNG would continue on the heels of the original series show and movies but it still feels off to me to this day. It's like they were trying to be edgy by showing some gore as well as show off some special effects (that to me looks quite dodgy anyways) to justfiy their status as the most expensive (at the time) syndicated show to date. I don't recall them ever trying something remotely like that again until maybe Nog's combat amputation (although I don't recall the exact details of that scene so I could be remembering the emotion rather than actual gore). Typically it was just much less detailed disintegration like with the woman who helped Data escape from the evil collector guy who kidnapped him. Am I forgetting or blocking out other gory things in TNG?
Trivia tidbit: that was going to be the first view of the Borg threat.
Michael and Denise Okuda elaborated in their Star Trek Chronology (rev. 1996, p. 290): "At the time the episode was written, this was apparently intended to lead to the introduction of the Borg in Star Trek: The Next Generation's second season. The Borg connection was dropped before 'Q Who?' (TNG) was written, and the truth about the parasites remains a mystery."
AduroT wrote: If there’s one thing I can’t stand, it political allegories or social commentaries in my Star Trek.
Just to be 100% clear - I have zero issue with political allegories in Trek. I have a problem with this specific allegory given what must necessarily happen in order for it to have the required conflict to drive the sort of show Picard is shaping up to be.
If they want to do a Star Trek series where the refugees from the Hobus Disaster roll up at the gates of the Federation and are welcomed with open arms in a season-long demonstration of how an advanced culture should behave when confronted with a humanitarian tragedy - especially when said advanced culture has ubiquitous fusion and antimatter energy generation and widespread matter-energy conversion technology, meaning they have functionally unlimited resources in 99.99999% of cases and could absorb the decimated populace of the Romulan Empire without breaking a sweat in terms of resources - fantastic, get crackin'. But that isn't how they'll do it, is it. They'll portray the Federation as, at best, hesitant and at worst outright hostile to the refugees, because the Federation are the government of the society people are arriving in, and so it will have to serve as a surrogate for certain IRL nation states and their current attitudes towards immigration and refugees. Picard & Seven can then be contrasted against the not-utopian-now-for-some-reason Federation government as warriors for truth and justice and compassion and all that good stuff.
Yes, the Feds terraform planets. If ten billion Romulan refugees appeared they could integrate them into the Fed without much issue. It would be easier than East / West Germany and adds Romulan expertise. Based on what we've seen of the Romulans their tech is pretty advanced and would be a definite benefit to the Feds.
Frazzled wrote: Yes, the Feds terraform planets. If ten billion Romulan refugees appeared they could integrate them into the Fed without much issue. It would be easier than East / West Germany and adds Romulan expertise. Based on what we've seen of the Romulans their tech is pretty advanced and would be a definite benefit to the Feds.
After that, who do the Klingons pick on?
It really depends on how much of Star Trek Online is used. It's a right mess with transwarp conduits, the delta quadrants, the lizard aliens that used to be dinosaurs but left Earth before the asteroid hit, the dyson sphere builders and iconians. If non of STO is used, then it's free reign, but a lot of the issues are tackled.
In any sense with the Klingons they pick on the federation and ally/annex the gorn, orions, nausicans etc, but it's all just a species 8472(?) infiltration causing trouble.
Frazzled wrote: Yes, the Feds terraform planets. If ten billion Romulan refugees appeared they could integrate them into the Fed without much issue. It would be easier than East / West Germany and adds Romulan expertise. Based on what we've seen of the Romulans their tech is pretty advanced and would be a definite benefit to the Feds.
After that, who do the Klingons pick on?
It really depends on how much of Star Trek Online is used. It's a right mess with transwarp conduits, the delta quadrants, the lizard aliens that used to be dinosaurs but left Earth before the asteroid hit, the dyson sphere builders and iconians. If non of STO is used, then it's free reign, but a lot of the issues are tackled.
In any sense with the Klingons they pick on the federation and ally/annex the gorn, orions, nausicans etc, but it's all just a species 8472(?) infiltration causing trouble.
You know, I recognize most all of that from various episodes of the series, but it’s still crazy to see it all listed like that.
Thanks to all those who informed me as to the proto-borg origins of the slug brain control monsters from season one; I wasn't aware of that! I suppose they could have worked them in as some sort of a vanguard infiltrator force ahead of the borg like genestealer cults are now or zoats were in 40k but I think they're better left as separate threats to the federation.
"You just don't get it, do you, Jean-Luc? The trial never ends. We wanted to see if you had the ability to expand your mind and your horizons. And for one brief moment, you did."
In the novels, the Klingons have a real hate tryst going with the Kinshaya, who would be space nobodies except for their usefulness to the Typhon Pact powers. The Breen keep putting them up to crap that ends up getting their faces stomped by angry Klingon boots, and everyone is happy.
Frazzled wrote: Yes, the Feds terraform planets. If ten billion Romulan refugees appeared they could integrate them into the Fed without much issue. It would be easier than East / West Germany and adds Romulan expertise. Based on what we've seen of the Romulans their tech is pretty advanced and would be a definite benefit to the Feds.
After that, who do the Klingons pick on?
It really depends on how much of Star Trek Online is used. It's a right mess with transwarp conduits, the delta quadrants, the lizard aliens that used to be dinosaurs but left Earth before the asteroid hit, the dyson sphere builders and iconians. If non of STO is used, then it's free reign, but a lot of the issues are tackled.
In any sense with the Klingons they pick on the federation and ally/annex the gorn, orions, nausicans etc, but it's all just a species 8472(?) infiltration causing trouble.
You know, I recognise most all of that from various episodes of the series, but it’s still crazy to see it all listed like that.
Oh there is way more in it too... destruction of Romulus, Romulans messing with Borg technology, the Hirogen dealing with a photonic/hologram rebellion, time travel (lots of that), the cooperative (who were borg once but are now rebels), the war between borg and 8572 (who get a name.. the undine), the evil prophets who tinker with time and bring back all those jemhadar ships that were lost in the wormhole, surfing on risa, ... and I haven't even played the last few seasons. I have purposely left out things that are original to the game too and probably forgot most of it.
Seems foolish. I see a pretty good chance of it bombing hard and then Stewart having to eat those words.
Watching him struggle to work his way through a short youtube ad on refugees makes it hard to believe they can hang one, let alone two, seasons of a show on his head.
I just saw a commercial and it looks like it will be TV-MA. I dont want that. I want Star Trek that the whole family can watch. That offers a hope for the future. That can be a source of contemplation and thoughtfulness.
...but I guess without blood, guts, and f-bombs tv can't be taken seriously...
Everything star trek (or what vaguely gets stamped with the brand) in the last decade or so. .
I think you may have a different interpretation of 'bombing' to everyone else. The only one of the movies that underperformed (and still didn't 'bomb') was Beyond (which is sad, as it was the best of the three), and Discovery is signed for a third season.
Voss wrote: Seems foolish. I see a pretty good chance of it bombing hard and then Stewart having to eat those words.
Watching him struggle to work his way through a short youtube ad on refugees makes it hard to believe they can hang one, let alone two, seasons of a show on his head.
Have you seen his recent interview for a Variety article? He's got a full on buffet already loaded up on his plate. Between this show specifically being a response to 2016/2017 politics to flat out saying that he had no desire to return to the world of TNG so it's dead, this interview pretty much removed the last bit of hope I had that this would be a return to something thematically and tonally closer to classic trek than STD was to TOS.
Everything star trek (or what vaguely gets stamped with the brand) in the last decade or so. .
I think you may have a different interpretation of 'bombing' to everyone else. The only one of the movies that underperformed (and still didn't 'bomb') was Beyond (which is sad, as it was the best of the three), and Discovery is signed for a third season.
Eh. I didn't mean those movies under-performed. I meant I don't see this show pulling off the constant run-run-run-always-on-action-shut-up-there's-no-time-for-rational-thought 'Star Trek' that those movies pulled to attract audiences and combining that with an elderly Stewart and with whatever random social commentary they're using to throw the Federation under a bus.
Just that this will bomb for trying to do all that at once. And for Stewart wanting to ditch the defining feature of Star Trek for some nihilistic society that he personally needs to fix in some insane fit of hubris.
Eh? Everything I've seen on Discovery has been that its a laughable joke.
Its just safe and protected behind a paywall where they can obscure numbers and ratings, and not have to worry about advertisers dumping the show like the cold piece of trash it is.
Voss wrote: Eh? Everything I've seen on Discovery has been that its a laughable joke.
Its just safe and protected behind a paywall where they can obscure numbers and ratings, and not have to worry about advertisers dumping the show like the cold piece of trash it is.
I think it's hard to ignore Discovery's divisive effect in the fandom. That has been fairly standard for new Star Trek series though. TNG had its detractors, and so did DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise and I feel like all those series were more well received and appreciated after their series finales.
Discovery could be the same. There are a lot of people who liked it, and season 1 was pretty good, if flawed. The later half of season 2 though came with a major downtrend though, and I think is hard to defend as anything but garbage unfitting of the Star Trek label. I think season 3 is going to be a hard sell, even for people who haven't already abandoned the show given its apparent premise. I think there was a major breach of faith though among the more hardcore fan base throughout Discovery, so opinion on the internet may be much more negative than the among the wider audience.
Everything star trek (or what vaguely gets stamped with the brand) in the last decade or so. .
I think you may have a different interpretation of 'bombing' to everyone else. The only one of the movies that underperformed (and still didn't 'bomb') was Beyond (which is sad, as it was the best of the three), and Discovery is signed for a third season.
The Star Trek movies Bayformered. They did fine in the box office, but most people don't remember them particularly fondly and the serious fans of the franchise loathe them. Star Trek Into Darkness is the TROS of the Star Trek universe, a self-parody. And Discovery is best known as a butt of mockery. "Now, that's the power of math!"
If Star Trek means so little that we're accepting TROS levels of quality, then the franchise is better off dead.
The problem is that these current execs don't get the point. I've lost all interest in Picard having seen the latest trailer.
Star Trek isn't Star Wars. Why it continues to try and be Star Wars is beyond me, but the glory days of using words and well written scripts and characters to tell fantastic and hope filled stories is gone. It's been replaced by
Everything star trek (or what vaguely gets stamped with the brand) in the last decade or so. .
I think you may have a different interpretation of 'bombing' to everyone else. The only one of the movies that underperformed (and still didn't 'bomb') was Beyond (which is sad, as it was the best of the three), and Discovery is signed for a third season.
The Star Trek movies Bayformered. They did fine in the box office, but most people don't remember them particularly fondly and the serious fans of the franchise loathe them. Star Trek Into Darkness is the TROS of the Star Trek universe, a self-parody. And Discovery is best known as a butt of mockery. "Now, that's the power of math!"
If Star Trek means so little that we're accepting TROS levels of quality, then the franchise is better off dead.
This serious fan of the franchise enjoyed them just fine.
But the argument wasn't whether they were popular with hardcore fans, it was that they 'bombed'. They didn't. The fact that people resistant to change didn't like the different thing doesn't make their box office performance any smaller than it was.
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Togusa wrote: The problem is that these current execs don't get the point. I've lost all interest in Picard having seen the latest trailer.
Star Trek isn't Star Wars. Why it continues to try and be Star Wars is beyond me, but the glory days of using words and well written scripts and characters to tell fantastic and hope filled stories is gone. It's been replaced by
Sci fi has always somewhat reflected the time it was birthed from. It's no coincidence that the majority of current day scifi is a bit more 'grah, everything sucks! Kill the thing!' than shows and movies from the 70s and 80s tended to be.
Everything star trek (or what vaguely gets stamped with the brand) in the last decade or so. .
I think you may have a different interpretation of 'bombing' to everyone else. The only one of the movies that underperformed (and still didn't 'bomb') was Beyond (which is sad, as it was the best of the three), and Discovery is signed for a third season.
The Star Trek movies Bayformered. They did fine in the box office, but most people don't remember them particularly fondly and the serious fans of the franchise loathe them. Star Trek Into Darkness is the TROS of the Star Trek universe, a self-parody. And Discovery is best known as a butt of mockery. "Now, that's the power of math!"
If Star Trek means so little that we're accepting TROS levels of quality, then the franchise is better off dead.
This serious fan of the franchise enjoyed them just fine.
This is an actual, genuine question from someone who is actually wondering how you arrived at your PoV, not an attack, or a snark, or anything else of that nature:
How does a "serious fan" of Star Trek enjoy a show like Discovery(or, alas, it seems, Picard), or a film like Into Darkness? I can understand the perspective of someone who just generally enjoys science fiction who happened to like previous Star Treks and also likes the modern incarnations, but has no particular attachment to that IP. I might have a different opinion on the quality, but there's no logical conflict there. But to be a fan of something is to care about it, to feel a level of attachment to the qualities that make it what it is, and by any measure other than branding I don't see how STD etc shares any qualities with Trek.
It's not fundamentally hopeful and optimistic. It's not thoughtful. It's not inspiring. It's not a vision of a better tomorrow that we can strive for. It doesn't have the same tone or narrative format. Even the aesthetic is similar in only the most superficial ways, despite ostensibly being set in an existing and known time period.
What is in there for a fan of Star Trek, specifically, to enjoy?
The real answer is that a portion of serious fans are ok with the modern series and movies whereas another equally significant portion is not. As usual, the casual fans are firmly in the meh camp inbetween. Regardless, neither camp is a "vocal minority" in the sense that they are insignificant and can therefore be ignored. That isn't particularly meaningful for the people who like the current direction Trek is taking as they're already being catered to but it is important for those who don't.
I suspect that, like with Star Wars, the missing fans make the difference between an IP being simply profitable versus thriving. Ep IX isn't bombing at almost one billion dollars worldwide so far but the trend since Disney took over is certainly downward and this latest entry will make slightly more than half of what Disney's first entry did. Toy sales are down as well (another marker equally both of cultural relevance in the youngest generation AND interest in the hard core fans from the first couple of generations). I see many parallels with Star Trek though I can't say that with 100% certainty as we don't have the numbers for this franchise publicly available. YMMV.
Voss wrote: Eh? Everything I've seen on Discovery has been that its a laughable joke.
Its just safe and protected behind a paywall where they can obscure numbers and ratings, and not have to worry about advertisers dumping the show like the cold piece of trash it is.
I think it's hard to ignore Discovery's divisive effect in the fandom. That has been fairly standard for new Star Trek series though. TNG had its detractors, and so did DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise and I feel like all those series were more well received and appreciated after their series finales.
Discovery could be the same. There are a lot of people who liked it, and season 1 was pretty good, if flawed. The later half of season 2 though came with a major downtrend though, and I think is hard to defend as anything but garbage unfitting of the Star Trek label. I think season 3 is going to be a hard sell, even for people who haven't already abandoned the show given its apparent premise. I think there was a major breach of faith though among the more hardcore fan base throughout Discovery, so opinion on the internet may be much more negative than the among the wider audience.
I enjoyed the first season of Discovery as although it was becoming Burnham-Trek its only as Season 2 progressed that it became the full on total love fest for that character wherre everyone and everything revolved around her and no-one else - other than equally tiresome Tilly - were capable of tying their shoe laces without one of both of them telling them what to do. So much potential lost - I could not stomach finishing the season and won't be bothering with Season 3 - I'd watch a series about Pike and co or the Empress as long as Burnham and Tilly were not in it.
Back in October, Star Trek franchise boss Alex Kurtzman told us that he was working on a five-year plan for Trek projects, and during today’s Star Trek: Picard press tour today, he told us — just barely — about what we’ll be hearing about next as the Star Trek universe continues to expand.
Speaking to an assembled group of reporters (including TrekCore.com) during CBS All Access’ Star Trek: Picard press tour in Pasadena, CA this morning Kurtzman — along with Trek executive producing partner Heather Kadin — spoke about the state of the upcoming Section 31 series, their view on the ongoing Short Treks project, and more.
Star Trek: Picard is the second live-action series that this producer team has launched, after the somewhat calamitous start of Discovery which resulted in multiple showrunner changes, premiere delays, and other behind-the-scenes issues during first two years of its run.
We had the chance to ask Kurtzman what lessons his team took from the early days of Discovery which influenced the way they’ve approached getting Star Trek: Picard off the ground — and expanding into a second season of episodes.
ALEX KURTZMAN:
We’ve started working on Season 2 [of ‘Picard’], and we have a really excellent story, I think — and a very surprising one. But I think it’s really important for us to take it piece by piece. Part of this, too, is getting reactions from people.
Before we lock things, down it’s terribly important to listen to fans, and hear what they like — and what they didn’t respond to — or what wasn’t clear, and make sure we’re tacking accordingly. I learned when I started working in the ‘Star Trek’ world that that’s a really essential part of making these shows.
You have to listen carefully and understand that sometimes when people are complaining about things, they’re actually complaining about something else; there’s a different problem [below the surface] and you have to get to the root of that problem.
So I want to give a little room to learn from people’s reactions.
The obvious on-screen reaction response in Discovery‘s second year was the return of hair to the Klingon species, radically redesigned for the show when it was still under Bryan Fuller’s purview; hopefully nothing quite rises to that level when Star Trek: Picard debuts on January 23.
The conversation then made its way from Star Trek: Picard to the overall state of the Star Trek Universe, as the brand was titled at this year’s Comic Con events; Heather Kadin took the lead in giving an update on the Georgiou-centric Section 31 show.
HEATHER KADIN:
[‘Section 31’ is] in active development. So that’s obviously a huge priority; Michelle [Yeoh’s] character [Georgiou] is so unique, and you’ve never seen that before. Again, it has to fall under the guise of, ‘is this [show] a unique space we haven’t explored yet?”
And then also, the animated shows [‘Lower Decks’ and the untitled Nickelodeon project] are also really going to provide that too. For someone like me, who gets to work on these shows — and then two nights a week, go watch a cut of ‘Lower Decks’ — it’s a blast.
So I hope we continue to find those new avenues.
ALEX KURTZMAN:
There are two more live action shows that haven’t been announced yet.
While Kurtzman declined to expand on the focus of those two newly-revealed series — which are in addition to Discovery, Picard, and Section 31 — we’re sure that this single sentence will generate a tornado of speculation as to what may fill those slots.
We’ve known for nearly 18 months that the shows we know about aren’t the only ones which have been rumored; all the way back in June 2018 we first heard reports in the Hollywood trades that a Starfleet Academy-based series was under consideration as part of Kurtzman’s overall Trek franchise deal, which could certainly still be in the mix for one of these new shows.
In addition, Kurtzman and team have been clearly acknowledging the fan demand for a Captain Pike series — with Anson Mount reprising his role from Discovery in a show of his own — which also seems to be a likely candidate for the second slot.
Until CBS All Access makes any official announcements on the Star Trek franchise’s next move, however, it’s up to us — and to you — to discuss the possibilities these additional shows may bring for Trek as Kurtzman’s “five year” plan rolls ahead.
Regarding the just-wrapped second run of Star Trek: Short Treks, Kurtzman also noted that some of the new behind-the-scenes talent fostered in those short productions are continuing on with the franchise as well.
ALEX KURTZMAN:
I’ve loved the ‘Short Treks’ because they’re a really interesting testing ground both for different kinds of stories, and also different talent. Breaking new directors, new writers, younger writers, composers, and we’ve taken one of the composers and now put them on one of the series. So it’s very interesting and it’s been educational for us.
I love making them. I think there’s something so satisfying just from a pure creative point of view of figuring out how to tell a full story in ten to fifteen minutes or sometimes even less. I go back to the Pixar shorts — the shorts make you cry in two minutes. That’s a talent. That’s a real art to doing that.
They tell very emotional, very fulsome stories in such a short period of time, so it’s just another way of telling really interesting ‘Star Trek’ stories.
We also asked him about the status of international availability for viewers outside of the US and Canada — who have not been able to see any of the 2019-2020 Short Treks as of this writing, to which Kurtzman would only comment that he expects that they will make their way to Netflix “at some point.”
Hopefully this year’s slate of Short Treks will make their way overseas sometime soon, but for now we’ll have to keep waiting, along with all of the international fans who are in the same boat.
Insaniak, please forgive me if I am wrong, but didn’t you also enjoy the entire sequel trilogy and the prequels as well as JJ Trek? Are you also a fan of the older Star Trek shows?
I’m not seeing why a show that is written to appeal to more selective fanswhiny manbabies the currently disaffected fans couldn’t also appeal to fans who seem..uh...more positively disposed towards larger swathes of the entertainment product.
warboss wrote: I'd prefer Baby Morn personally. Think of the licensing potential with a bar and stool baby walker!
I enjoyed JJ Trek (except that second one), and I think Discovery is pretty garbage.
At worst, JJ Trek was a needless rehash of an era no one really wanted with capable actors who just couldn't machine the original's charisma and a plot that only worked by author's fiat.
Discovery plays out like some TNG fan's okayishly written fanfic produced by someone who wishes they were working on Battlestar Galactica and thinks a 1 hour TV episode about a young man being persecuted for his Romulan grandfather isn't cynical enough. And is also a needless rehash of an era no one really wanted. Did I mention the writing is god awful and I've seen fanfics that are better?
EDIT: Honestly, part of me thinks the only reason Discovery is set in the time period it is is because someone idiotically thought they could capitalize on the enthusiasm for Axanar, except they didn't bother with any of the things that made fans like Axanar.
Frazzled wrote: I would watch CBS online if they did a proper Axanar series...
They'd throw Section 31 into it for some reason, make the entire plot about super space secret agents with a super special ship and the main character would be some unbearable know it all who is constantly right even when pissing into the wind with barely a coherent thought... Oh right.
Yodhrin wrote: This is an actual, genuine question from someone who is actually wondering how you arrived at your PoV, not an attack, or a snark, or anything else of that nature:
How does a "serious fan" of Star Trek enjoy a show like Discovery(or, alas, it seems, Picard), or a film like Into Darkness? I can understand the perspective of someone who just generally enjoys science fiction who happened to like previous Star Treks and also likes the modern incarnations, but has no particular attachment to that IP. I might have a different opinion on the quality, but there's no logical conflict there. But to be a fan of something is to care about it, to feel a level of attachment to the qualities that make it what it is, and by any measure other than branding I don't see how STD etc shares any qualities with Trek.
It's not fundamentally hopeful and optimistic. It's not thoughtful. It's not inspiring. It's not a vision of a better tomorrow that we can strive for. It doesn't have the same tone or narrative format. Even the aesthetic is similar in only the most superficial ways, despite ostensibly being set in an existing and known time period.
What is in there for a fan of Star Trek, specifically, to enjoy?
What's not to enjoy?
Star Trek is not just one thing, and hasn't been for a very, very long time. Each of the TV series has had a slightly different atmosphere and focus. The earlier movies somewhat mirrored the series' they sprang from, with the Next Gen movies showing a shift towards action over introspection. The books, on the other hand, have been everywhere. They've covered everything from cerebral introspection, to war settings, to literally the imminent destruction of the entire galaxy. I enjoy the original series for its naivety and hope for a better future. I enjoy DS9 for it's grittier, more grounded take on things. And I enjoy Discovery and the Abrams movies for showing a different take on a familiar subject.
It probably helps that I'm a fan of sci fi in general, although Star Wars and Star Trek have always been the solid foundation of that love, for me. It probably (so far as the newer stuff is concerned) helps that I've also always been a fan of 'alternate' takes. I love covers of songs, particularly when they're wildly different to the original. I was a big fan of the 'What if...?' and Elseworlds comic lines. I loved Keaton's Batman and Bale's Batman and even Batfleck just as much as the 60's campy version.
But the biggest thing, I think, is that I have no strong expectations. I don't expect the next Star Trek thing to be exactly the same as the last one. If it is, then that's great - more Star Trek! If it isn't, then that's great too - different Star Trek!
I care more about the characters being relatable and/or entertaining, and the story being interesting than in whether or not it perfectly fits my preconceived notions of what the product should be.
Voss wrote: Seems foolish. I see a pretty good chance of it bombing hard and then Stewart having to eat those words.
Watching him struggle to work his way through a short youtube ad on refugees makes it hard to believe they can hang one, let alone two, seasons of a show on his head.
Yes of course. Everyone knows SIR Patrick Stewart can't act!
I really hope I misread this comment and am interpreting the context incorrectly.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Insaniak, please forgive me if I am wrong, but didn’t you also enjoy the entire sequel trilogy and the prequels as well as JJ Trek?
Yes, and no. I enjoyed all of those things, although in the case of the prequels that's because I chose to enjoy them as a collection of action scenes strung together with a bare-bones plot.
Are you also a fan of the older Star Trek shows? .
I grew up with the original Star Trek series. For a long time, that was all Star Trek was for me - I actively avoided Next Gen when it started up, because it wasn't 'real' Star Trek. Once I did get around to checking out the other Trek series, I found I liked them all, for different reasons - although enjoyed the Next Gen movies more than most of that series. (and, conversely, didn't enjoy most of the original crew movies as much as the series)
And the Enterprise D is still hands down the ugliest ship in the Star Trek universe.
And the Enterprise D is still hands down the ugliest ship in the Star Trek universe.
In a world where there's not exactly a dearth of realllllllly ugly space craft from genre tv and movies, it's certainly in my top 3. Together with the ungainly plucked chicken from the space cowboy show (loved the mechanic, the ship is plain ugly), and the "whatever the feth it was" from "Magnificent 7 in space".
And the Enterprise D is still hands down the ugliest ship in the Star Trek universe.
To each his own but that's a relatively uncommon opinion in my experience. It's certainly not my favorite by any stretch either but wow...
From talking to people over the years, it generally seems to be more well-liked amongst those who started out with Next Gen, and less so amongst us old-timers. It's not just a resistance to change, though, at least in my case - I was fine with the movie refit of the original Enterprise, although I still love the more elegant lines of the original design. And I mostly love the post Next-Gen ship designs (aside from the Defiant, which I realise is another controversial opinion ) but the D just looks like someone took a regular Star Trek ship and half melted it.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
chromedog wrote: Together with the ungainly plucked chicken from the space cowboy show (loved the mechanic, the ship is plain ugly),
Ooh, them's fighting words...
But actually, the Serenity being a bit ugly was part of the backstory. It was supposed to be ugly, but slightly charming in its ungainly way.
Voss wrote: Seems foolish. I see a pretty good chance of it bombing hard and then Stewart having to eat those words.
Watching him struggle to work his way through a short youtube ad on refugees makes it hard to believe they can hang one, let alone two, seasons of a show on his head.
Yes of course. Everyone knows SIR Patrick Stewart can't act!
I really hope I misread this comment and am interpreting the context incorrectly.
Completely incorrectly.
In the ad in question, he seems to be tired and worn out reading a few lines while sitting comfortably.
Acting is long hours on a fairly arduous schedule, even when it isn't an action show. I just don't think he's physically up to the demands of multiple seasons of this type of show.
And the show's concept looks rubbish enough that the suits involved seem crazy to be signing a second season before the first even airs, regardless of who is involved or how talented they are.
[Though with the caveat that internet distribution and no live TV lets a lot of junk live on long after studios would have traditionally axed it]
It took me years to like the Enterprise D, but now I find that the over-engineered, overly-sculpted hotel ship perfectly encapsulates the attitude of Starfleet pre Wolf 359. There is a beauty to the naivety and arrogance of the design, and that makes it the perfect foil for the military sleekness of the Defiant or E. It’s a strutting ship of peace that any other regime would consider a battleship in need of a diet.
The Grissom and Excelsior (outside of ST 6’s flattering camera angles) are the ugliest ships in Starfleet. Yes, including the Sidney.
Now, the Nebula class, on the other hand, is a gorgeous ship.
Voss wrote: Eh? Everything I've seen on Discovery has been that its a laughable joke.
Its just safe and protected behind a paywall where they can obscure numbers and ratings, and not have to worry about advertisers dumping the show like the cold piece of trash it is.
I think it's hard to ignore Discovery's divisive effect in the fandom. That has been fairly standard for new Star Trek series though. TNG had its detractors, and so did DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise and I feel like all those series were more well received and appreciated after their series finales.
Discovery could be the same. There are a lot of people who liked it, and season 1 was pretty good, if flawed. The later half of season 2 though came with a major downtrend though, and I think is hard to defend as anything but garbage unfitting of the Star Trek label. I think season 3 is going to be a hard sell, even for people who haven't already abandoned the show given its apparent premise. I think there was a major breach of faith though among the more hardcore fan base throughout Discovery, so opinion on the internet may be much more negative than the among the wider audience.
IMHO, the biggest detraction for Disco, and now Picard. . . . is that it exists "solely" behind the paywall that is "CBS All Access". At the time Disco launched, they could likely have put the show in CBS proper, on the air, in a saturday night slot or something (obviously, not the MOST coveted spots, but it being Trek, they'd likely have had a "guaranteed" crowd for an OTA show). IMO, a show with as much cultural significance to western audiences as Trek has, that's where it should be, not behind some subscription paywall.
The Grissom and Excelsior (outside of ST 6’s flattering camera angles) are the ugliest ships in Starfleet. Yes, including the Sidney.
I actually don't mind the Grissom. It's an odd design, but still works while being really different from what we had seen previously at that point. And while the Excelsior class isn't one of my favourites, it's at least a natural progression from the refitted Constitution class styling. I would rate both of these higher than the Discovery, which I dislike almost as much as the Enterprise D.
Now, the Nebula class, on the other hand, is a gorgeous ship.
The Nebula is just what you get when you don't follow the assembly instructions for your Galaxy class ship...
warboss wrote: Wow... I have to say that's the most dislike I've seen the ship get in decades in my decades on the internet.
Has anyone mentioned the J yet?
Someone did above iirc. It's an odd duck for sure.
BobtheInquisitor wrote:It took me years to like the Enterprise D, but now I find that the over-engineered, overly-sculpted hotel ship perfectly encapsulates the attitude of Starfleet pre Wolf 359. There is a beauty to the naivety and arrogance of the design, and that makes it the perfect foil for the military sleekness of the Defiant or E. It’s a strutting ship of peace that any other regime would consider a battleship in need of a diet.
The Grissom and Excelsior (outside of ST 6’s flattering camera angles) are the ugliest ships in Starfleet. Yes, including the Sidney.
Now, the Nebula class, on the other hand, is a gorgeous ship.
I rather liked the original Excelsior (less so the 1701B variant) but only from certain angles...basically not a pure side view that accentuated the length. I'm also a fan of the nebula specifically the original circular dish USS Phoenix version.
The original (or at least the refit) Enterprise was almost able to separate as well. There was originally a battle scene storyboard for the end of the Motion Picture where they split the saucer to fight some Klingons.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: It took me years to like the Enterprise D, but now I find that the over-engineered, overly-sculpted hotel ship perfectly encapsulates the attitude of Starfleet pre Wolf 359. There is a beauty to the naivety and arrogance of the design, and that makes it the perfect foil for the military sleekness of the Defiant or E. It’s a strutting ship of peace that any other regime would consider a battleship in need of a diet.
Agreed. I always thought of it as elegant even though I prefered the 1701C (and Phoenix variant Nebula) myself. It's the gentlemen's starship built as you said by an overconfident and naive pre-Borg/pre-Dominion War Federation and the design encapsulated that.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: It took me years to like the Enterprise D, but now I find that the over-engineered, overly-sculpted hotel ship perfectly encapsulates the attitude of Starfleet pre Wolf 359. There is a beauty to the naivety and arrogance of the design, and that makes it the perfect foil for the military sleekness of the Defiant or E. It’s a strutting ship of peace that any other regime would consider a battleship in need of a diet.
Agreed. I always thought of it as elegant even though I prefered the 1701C (and Phoenix variant Nebula) myself. It's the gentlemen's starship built as you said by an overconfident and naive pre-Borg/pre-Dominion War Federation and the design encapsulated that.
Its a very very large civilian exploration ship with some guns on it. Its the Queen Mary with a gun turret. When built their primary opposition was...the Ferengi? Klingons were allies, Romulans abided by their border as did the Tholians, Cardassians were a minor regional power and not technologically advanced. Absent the Borg, at the time of TNG there were no major threats.
The Constitution and Excelsior classes were battleships that also explored. The Klingons were an existential threat.
Frankly in this new time period they should be closer to TNG. Looks like the Romulans have been impacted. Cardassians are out of it. Just the Klingons and the Breen.
Personally, one of my favorite designs was Voyager. Sure, the series itself had some problems, but the ship was sleek.
As for what the Federation sees as a threat around the time of Picard? Well, after the Dominion War every Alfa/Beta quadrant race was impacted. The Klingons were a shadow of their former self, as were the Romulans (and then got the nut-punch of losing their home world). The Cardasians were all ready in a tight spot before the war being resource deprived, and basically reduced to Afghanistan levels of relevancy after the war. The Breen were a little beaten back, and lost some territory. The Federation was hurt, but in a decent situation to rebuild, and in fact make the Romulans, Cardassians, and to a lesser extent the Klingons dependent on them for rebuilding and supplying them. This likely exported Federation culture to all groups. The Ferengi aren't really a threat, and with their new Negus are likely very pro-Federation.
This basically leaves the Borg, the Dominion, and any random bad guys. With Voyager returning with future-tech the Borg seem like a lesser threat.
cuda1179 wrote: Personally, one of my favorite designs was Voyager. Sure, the series itself had some problems, but the ship was sleek.
I'll also give bonus points for the Equinox. The Nova class was a sexy little science ship.
Agreed. I prefer the slightly different styling of the related Rhode Island variant (the one Harry Kim commands in the finale) and even converted some fan deckplans for an rpg I hoped to run on it.
cuda1179 wrote: Personally, one of my favorite designs was Voyager. Sure, the series itself had some problems, but the ship was sleek.
I'll also give bonus points for the Equinox. The Nova class was a sexy little science ship.
Agreed. I prefer the slightly different styling of the related Rhode Island variant (the one Harry Kim commands in the finale) and even converted some fan deckplans for an rpg I hoped to run on it.
Do you consider the RI to be a variant f the same class as the Equinox, or the much larger ship the redress is apparently supposed to be?
cuda1179 wrote: Personally, one of my favorite designs was Voyager. Sure, the series itself had some problems, but the ship was sleek.
I'll also give bonus points for the Equinox. The Nova class was a sexy little science ship.
Those two ships were from that period when the design team knew exactly what they were doing. All the details are there, and they line up with their stated functions and the deck plans of the interior of the ship. I really like the advanced ship=smaller nacelles trope they carried over from the D and C. They look like real progressions from previous designs, built to a purpose. The E is just a little too over the top in comparison, and the Akira looks cool but struggles to make sense. If the Prometheus didn’t have that stupid multi-vector mode, it would fit right in with the Intrepid and Nova classes.
Non-spoiler Picard premiere review by (the actor who played) Jake Sisko and friends. Listening to it right now and just passed the 15 minute mark where they said 90's trek is dead and this is not a continuation of it as it's more akin to STD. They're largely ok with that. YMMV.
warboss wrote: Non-spoiler Picard premiere review by (the actor who played) Jake Sisko and friends. Listening to it right now and just passed the 15 minute mark where they said 90's trek is dead and this is not a continuation of it as it's more akin to STD. They're largely ok with that. YMMV.
Mass production, I guess. I mean, once you know how to make a positronic brain, one in theory could replicate it. And even if not (we know replicators have limits) the Federation is hardly short on resources.
I’m interested in why they turned. If as is implied Dahj has some kind of inherited memory from Data, could the Federation have been stupid/desperate enough to use Lore as well?
Guess we’ll find out over the coming weeks
Automatically Appended Next Post: Hmmmmm....
Spoiler:
Speculating.
There’s more to Picard leaving Starfleet, I’ll put money on that.
Section 31 perhaps? Synthetics ordered to knack the relocation fleet, so the Romulans would suffer? I mean, it seems awfully convenient timing, no?
And as Picard says it ‘was no longer Starfleet’ with the decision to halt the rescue effort.
So according to the show they’ve never been able to make another sentient synthetic since Data. Would imply the Mars ones weren’t some group acting on their own, but just kind of drones, and a sudden turn means they were likely hacked.
My next question is if there have never been sentient synthetics other than Data’s family, what about the Doctor hologram from Voyager? As I think about it, his existence does kind of invalidate a bunch of the Data plot lines.
The problem was replicating the nature of Data's existence (his brain), and not synthetic sentience itself. For instance, Moriarty existed, but had the full power of the Enterprise's computer to do so, and he was still limited in scope/function.
Yeah, it's getting an AI to run on something as small as a human brain that's the issue. The Doctor was an anomaly, and his mobile holo-emitter was cheating :-)
IIRC the Emergency Medical Hologram program was deemed to be a failure, and those left active were re-assigned to hazardous duties like mining.
beast_gts wrote: Yeah, it's getting an AI to run on something as small as a human brain that's the issue. The Doctor was an anomaly, and his mobile holo-emitter was cheating :-)
IIRC the Emergency Medical Hologram program was deemed to be a failure, and those left active were re-assigned to hazardous duties like mining.
It was and they were, then unassigned when somehow the Doctor started an AI rights movement from the other side of the galaxy (and saw it to completion in the course of an episode).
Overall really loving this first episode. I think it plays brilliantly into Picards style and strengths as an actor.
Also I like the little touch that Number One is a pit. To me that's a little bit of that old startrek theme of pushing modern social boundaries a bit. Pits being a breed that, esp in the UK, have come under a lot of fire (I believe they might even be on the dangerous dogs banned list) because of the use of them in dog fighting. Creating a huge image problem for them as violent and nasty dogs when the reality is far more that its the owners not the dogs.
So I really do like that touch even if its a bit more canine than human focused (as many of the earlier Trek progressive pushes were - esp in the Original series when you had women on the command deck and multiple ethnic groups).
Overall this feels very Startrek
Spoiler:
even down to the Federation at its core having issues with its own morality (accepting that the Romulans were in a Cold War with Starfleet for basically as long as they've known them). We often saw several times how the core political federation powers were often far more fearful and willing to pull back or preserve themselves compared to the captains on the front line. Especially ones like Kirk, Picard etc...
I give the first episode 7.5/10. It had some great moments, but it could still go either way from here. I want nostalgia moments, but I want more than that. I want action, but I also want depth. It has become almost an internet cliche to say that "The Inner Light" and "Family" were the best Next Generation episodes, but I still agree. But those episodes were only good because they contrast with the action episodes and reflect on them. There needs to be Action, followed by Reflection. Can't have one without the other.
I guess it was inevitable that this would have an ongoing storyline instead of an "adventure of the week" episodic structure, but I hope it works for the character.
I am optimistic, but still maintaining some caution for now.
Fifty wrote: I guess it was inevitable that this would have an ongoing storyline instead of an "adventure of the week" episodic structure, but I hope it works for the character.
It looks like that was one of the conditions of Sir Patrick Stewart reprising the role.
I really liked the contrasts of locations, peacefulness vs. action, reality vs. dreams.
I think that this is going have me watching every Friday night for a bit. Who'd have thought that my Star Wars/Star Trek bias could flip so dramatically over the space of a couple of years... maybe I'm getting old...
I'm not convinced that Dahj is dead. Mostly organic or not she's obviously tougher than a regular human(and there is still the possibility of Borg tech being in the mix). In a universe with common place teleportation, lack of a body is IMO a big flag. Especially when her attackers MO is to port in and out. Heck if she has a built in cloaking device, why not an emergency transporter beacon?
So, just to clarify, they're airing the episodes one at a time, instead of dropping them all at once for binge watching? Don't want to have to pay for a couple months of CBS if I don't have to.
Tannhauser42 wrote: So, just to clarify, they're airing the episodes one at a time, instead of dropping them all at once for binge watching? Don't want to have to pay for a couple months of CBS if I don't have to.
that is indeed the case. I'm sure by now you can find the 1st episode up on... less then legal streaming sites
Watched the first episode over the weekend and quite enjoyed it.
Was pacey enough, good production values, setup the plot for some possible curveballs and had a few nice moments of nostalgia for TNG fans.
Will keep watching to see where it goes and evolves.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: What I appreciated was Sir Patrick’s ability to freely switch between tired, deeply caring old man, and Picard’s thornier ‘nope’ attitude.
He’s lost nothing over the years, and I am enthused to see more.
Indeed. Was honestly not expecting the Picard Speech in the first episode, but he went right at it.
Enjoyed the first episode. I think they found a legitimate reason why Picard would quit in protest and also something that seems realistic. Usually they are not good at having an issue where both sides seem to be acting in a realistic fashion.
However, is there still that much hard feelings about The Romulans from the General Federation populace? They did fight side by side with them in The Dominion War. The Romulans have always been a stand-in for The Soviet Union. I guess after WWII even though The Soviets were part of The Allies the Cold War ensued. However, I kind of thought all of Star Trek up to this point was already simulating a Cold War with Romulus. So we're getting a double dose of cold war? Anyway, metaphors aside you'd think relations between The Federation and Romulus would have thawed greatly since the War.
The Dominion War forced alliances rather than formed alliances. Furthermore it was mostly the Cardassian's who took the brunt of the pains in the end on their systems and worlds as well as those on their boarders.
The Romulans saw the threat, but in the end most of their worlds remained quite intact. So after the threat of the Dominion was gone they likely went back to their old selves. They didn't have a massive political change as a result of the war. If anything it might have cemented their distrust of the Federation as it was the Federation who opened communications with races that far off with an ability to operate within a whole segment of the Galaxy that basically had only one corridor to it. If they'd not secured the Wormhole with the self-replicating mines, the Dominion would have eventually won through having an almost untouchable base of operations to launch wave after wave of attacks from.
When you consider how distrusting and isolationist the Romulans are, that kind of threat likely worked right into their social views on the Federation really well.
Plus we can't forget the Nemesis film where they also tried to strike at the heart of the Federation with a doomsday weapon. Such an act might well have boiled over tensions from the Federation. Seeing a race who basically stand back as long as they can, resent the Federation, block and oppose it where they can etc... I'm sure the Romulans bred few friendships - especially at the upper political level.
However the Federation was willing to help, that is until the entire rescue fleet was obliterated in a single massive attack that wiped out a whole world. That's quite a massive feat considering they weren't at war with anyone at the time. A huge peacetime attack by agents with reasons unknown. However whilst it wasn't the Romulans who instigated the attack, I suspect that the bulk of support they had in key figureheads died on the planet. Leaving behind far fewer ready to take up the torch again. At the same time ships were likely needed to counteract the Synthetics and contain them. Ships that likely weren't going to be spared to save Romulans - meanwhile civilians were likely in a storm of confusion after the attack, and fear.
I think the scale of things makes it a believable situation that the Federation in the end wound up paralysed in a situation that was on a very short fuse. It might even be that upper members of the political system would have been willing to divert fresh resources to save the Romulans after the synethics were contained; however its clear that they basically ran out of time.
Yeah, I was very concerned from the previews that they really were just going to have the Federation be Cardboard Cutout villains that were suddenly jerks for the sake of the story. But the first episode gave them enough nuance in their response, including ultimately they didn't oppose Picard's investigations.
So someone’s definitely getting assimilated in a future episode. You don’t get to have that long and detailed of a safety lecture and assurances from another dude how everything is super legit safe for it to not all go horribly wrong later.
Well, that was quite a bit of exposition, and not terribly clunky either.
Does feel like a ‘bridge’ episode. Follows up on the first, sets up the third, but doesn’t have a huge amount going on in itself. Which is fine, not every episode can be ‘and then this happens!’
Seems reviewers all saw up to episode three, and seem fairly consistent in considering them to make a single tale.
First episode is up on the official YouTube channel for free. If they follow what they did with STD season 2's premiere, it won't be on there for long (few days iirc).
Do we reckon we might get some kinda mention of the fallout of The Dominion War?
Much as I’m seriously enjoying Picard, I’ve been hankering for a follow up plot to the Federation’s darkest day.
I really hope so, it was a massive conflict and event that hit the whole Quadrant. It's possibly the biggest thing to ever hit Startrek in general. Even the Borg Cube was mostly handled just by the Federation and Klingons. The Dominion War hit everyone - Romulan, Cardassian, Ferangi, Starfleet and numerous other smaller races. It really should feature at some point in some references. Heck it would be great to head to Cardassia and see the rebuilding going on that they've gone through after their homeworld was torn apart at the end of the War.
Not to mention there's still the link to the other Quadrant active through the Wormhole and Changlings are still a thing. Now there's a powerful ally if you're a covert-ops group!
It might also help explain a breakdown in Federation and Romulan relations.
Imagine if Sisko’s fakery was eventually detected?
The sheer pragmatism can be seen. All stand together, or all fall in turn. But one imagines the Romulans wouldn’t take especially kindly to being tricked?
Well, plenty more episode (18, given Season 2 is in the works) to work that in
Because if they don’t, it’s going right up there on my Nerd Grudge Totem alongside Ace not getting a bow out from Doctor Who.
Though from my limited understanding (which the second episode might support....) it could be a sign of weakness, because The Mighty Moral Federation ( yeah, you just sang that in your head....) is actually surprising morally flexible, which gives a previously unrecognised ‘in’, where you can corrupt them further?
Not that I’m calling Sisko corrupt, at all. He did the right thing for the right reasons, and in the only way open at the time of the crime.
So, yeah... I watched the premiere. It's better than the premiere of DISCO but that's hardly a high hurdle to jump over; at least it's not actively attempting to insult a large part of its core audience. Copious rushed exposition instead of real world building (or updating in this case), unearned emotional intimacy between characters who just met, only slightly better than fan film quality effects at times despite a much bigger budget alongside headscratching questionable choices executed competently, and nonsensical action that disintegrates any reasonable suspension of disbelief in how and why it is happening. As a lifelong trekkie, even my powerful nostalgia shields can't deflect those glaring problems. This episode feels like they've crammed what should have been at least a traditional opening two parter into 45 minutes (or around 38 minutes minus the credits and season teaser). It's free for some now so I recommend that folks watch it to form their own opinion though.
Watched an ep and a half so far. It’s terribly dull tbh. And I did a groan at the rogue android’s name... puntastic. Better than Discovery but it’s not good, and F-bombs in Trek just sound weiiiirrrrd. P-Stew is a tad over-acting in this too, which is most unlike him. I do hope this improves dramatically...
JohnnyHell wrote: Watched an ep and a half so far. It’s terribly dull tbh. And I did a groan at the rogue android’s name... puntastic. Better than Discovery but it’s not good, and F-bombs in Trek just sound weiiiirrrrd. P-Stew is a tad over-acting in this too, which is most unlike him.
JohnnyHell wrote: Watched an ep and a half so far. It’s terribly dull tbh. And I did a groan at the rogue android’s name... puntastic. Better than Discovery but it’s not good, and F-bombs in Trek just sound weiiiirrrrd. P-Stew is a tad over-acting in this too, which is most unlike him.
It did feel like a bridge indeed, especially with the way it ended. That said it was a bridge was very happily crossing and the only annoyance is that I've got to wait a whole week to find out what's on the other side!
I thought it was full of several really great and important moments. We start to see a covert system within Starfleet with corruption to explain how they can start to cover up an explosion. We see Picard walk bold into Starfleet only to get slapped hard by the fact that he had resigned and whilst he was an Admiral he's no longer an Admiral (he's a visitor!). He can't even command the respect to get a small warp capable ship. He can be refused and there's no political nor legal or any channels he can take which can get them to give him a ship.
Yes he can cause a stir giving a public interview, but he doesn't actually have any real power left within starfleet. The world has moved on since he went into hiding in his vineyard all those years ago.
I also really liked that they got out of him his reasons for not contacting Riker and the others. For going to those who are his allies within the Federation who would most likely follow him. Indeed I think its a great thing to show as it highlights him as Picard and not Kirk the second. Kirk would (and did) steal starships and basically mutiny from the Federation toward his own goals. Picard is capable of such actions, but he'd have to be REALLY pushed hard to be forced to take such action. I think considering that Riker and Worf are (at the very least) likely commanding their own starships, Picard could cause a lot of trouble if he went down that path - and I get the feeling that he still loves Starfleet and doesn't want to take that pathway.
Compel wrote: I'm just going to chip in and say, yes, indeed, the Enterprise-D is an ugly, ugly ship.
It's just so... Unbalanced and... ARGH!
The Enterprise-E is a LOT nicer. And probably my favourite Trek ship design.
As for the Picard show, I'm just going to say, I too am disheartened by the idea of cynicising the Federation into a corrupt Government.
The slightlay Art Deco look of the movie ships in the 80s are my favourite, although the Excelsior is a little ungainly. Might be because those were my introduction to Star Trek (I think the first one I saw was The Search for Spock). As for making the Federation government less utopian, well, you’ve got that TNG episode where Star Fleet command was all possessed by worms, and obviously The Undiscovered Country and Insurrection, not to mention a fair bit of Deep Space 9 already going in that direction.
So far I’ve enjoyed the first two episodes of Picard, although they’ve been rather slow-paced. Apparently the first three episodes are the “pilot” so hopefully it’ll start picking up after that.
One subtle point (which connects back to the portrayal of the Federation government, in a way); even in the utopian, post-scarcity paradise of 23rd/24th century Earth, Boston and Paris still have the night split by police sirens. Is that just accepted as normal urban night sound now, without considering the implications?
Federation has always had some corruption - its politics. It's just that in Original series and TNG we didn't see as much of it because those ships (esp Original series) were far out on the edges of the Federation and operating sort of on their own for the most part. However when conflict did arise there was often contention between the captains in the field and the Starfleet HQ.
DS9 we saw a lot more not just of corruption, but of different political groups and agendas within the Federaiton and its member races.
Voyager we went back to a ship on the VERY far edges and heck for a big part of the early series we didn't even have any communication with Starfleet. So we "lost" the political angle on the main body of Starfleet.
That said in the TNG films, esp that one Between First Contact and Nemesis (ergo the one everyone forgets because it was mostly like an extended episode).
This new Picard series is just focusing the viewers eye on something that's been in the lore for years and years in Startrek. Just not overtly shown all the time
I don’t think this is how the new show will go, but there’s room for a discussion on the difference between the Federation citizens in the core worlds - Earth, Vulcan, Andor, arc - and those on Starfleet vessels and colonies on the outer edges of the territory. Starfleet would make a good release valve for all those people likeKirk, Spock, Picard and Sisko who can’t just settle down in paradise and stop fiddling with things.
AndrewGPaul wrote: I don’t think this is how the new show will go, but there’s room for a discussion on the difference between the Federation citizens in the core worlds - Earth, Vulcan, Andor, arc - and those on Starfleet vessels and colonies on the outer edges of the territory. Starfleet would make a good release valve for all those people likeKirk, Spock, Picard and Sisko who can’t just settle down in paradise and stop fiddling with things.
Sounds like Contact and Special Circumstances in the Culture
Seen first two now:
- I quite like the pacing, it does not feel rushed (maybe thats because I am getting old),
- the Bladerunneresque story seems ok, but thinking its goign to turn out time travel related with the secret-secret service trying to prevent the Borg or similar (god forbid its something to do with the Discovery story in S2 or we get fething Burnham in it at some point).
-The Romulan characters seem...odd, they have very human /European acents......and behave exactly like humans......odd.
- It looks good but still like Trek - no redesigning the entire race/ships for no fething reason.
One more Vulcan, with just pointy ears and angular eyebrows. The other with the distinctive Romulan head ridges.
yeah true - its all a bit odd - assume we will get more back story - same with Picards (Tal-Shiar?) friends at his vineyard
I think that the
Spoiler:
Vulcan Commadore is actually Vulcan - maybe Section 31 and working with the not Tal-Shiar rather than actually being a Romulan - I think the spy-sister says she is useful ally - not that she is part of the same organisation.....
In the past vulcans and romulans have had surgery to look like the other side. Spock was even altered to look Vulcan to infiltrate during one of the TNG episodes.
I see Frakes is directing the next two(?) episodes. Interesting to see how he does as I liked most of his TNG ones especially cause and effect (we wont mention sub rosa ).
So, I saw the first episode with my wife—thanks for the link, Warboss—and I’m not feeling it. My wife wants to know what happens next, so we’ll probably binge it at some point.
I don’t hate it, but I also don’t trust the gritty mystery box approach that the first episode takes. The quality of the show will be retroactively impacted by later reveals, such as
Spoiler:
what Maddox is up to, what the real story of the synthetics is, who the Romulans are, what’s with the cube, what’s with Data’s daughter, why is Starfleet covering for an apparently foreign espionage team,
etc.
Not many parts of the episode stand on their own. Stewart’s acting is great, but undermined by the uncharacteristic corruption in Starfleet/the Federation, deliberately obfuscated backstory, and the camera work/editing. The production value is there. The story takes some time to breathe between action or plot beats, although I’ll come back to that. The setting seems fairly consistent with TNG if nBSG writers got a decade to work it over real ugly. At least they did some research.
Now, I admit this is probably me being an old grumpus but I found the camera work and editing distracting. Prime example: the establishing shot of Picard’s vineyard was not a shot but a montage with no stillness but also nothing actually happening. It distracted me more than it gave me a feeling for Picard’s personal setting. Every seen with Stewart acting was edited into uncomfortable closeups and then camera-crawling reaction shots, distracting from the man himself. It felt like the camera was always, always moving, a technique modern film makers overuse because they lack confidence that the content of the scene alone will hold the audience’s attention. It made me feel detached from the drama instead of engaged.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I wrote scene and autocorrect changed it to seen, and probably messed up other words. Frustrating.
Have watched both episodes and they are okay, nothing really great (bar Stewart's acting) and not anything really terrible. It does make me wonder how the law passed in "The Measure of a Man" became in the future an entire race of disposable people, wonder if it will come up.
It's best not to dwell on it; the writers obviously didn't.
I have to say that it seems like I'm in the minority in not liking Picard unlike with Disco where it felt like a pretty even split in the fandom. Youtubers that I respect (but don't always agree with) seem to like it or at least think it's ok. I don't hate it but rather it's more just a moderate dislike mixed with an apathy borne of severe disappointment with Disco season 1. I think I've finally accepted that Star Trek just isn't for me anymore and likely never will be.
Yeah. I feel the same. The new movies aren’t Star Trek to me. The Picard show is not Star Trek to me. I don’t enjoy what Star Trek is today.
The good news is I’ve got the post-Nemesis novel verse for my Star Trek fix; the bad news is there will be no more entries in that continuity ever again once the last contracted Breyer Voyager book comes out.
I actually just started reading my first trek novel in 20+ years two days ago as well. In my case it is a TOS novel although not by choice as it was literally the only one in the book store clearance bin.
Let me know if you need some reading material. We are Kondoing the house, which means giving away a large portion of my book horde, including some Star Trek and Black Library novels. I’d prefer to send them to someone who will read them rather than just donate them all to the library and hope they find good homes.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, which book?
ingtaer wrote: Please, just don't bring Burnham into it...
Have watched both episodes and they are okay, nothing really great (bar Stewart's acting) and not anything really terrible. It does make me wonder how the law passed in "The Measure of a Man" became in the future an entire race of disposable people, wonder if it will come up.
my guess is the synths used on Mars where more primative then Data. Datawas ruled to be an individual because he was clearly intelligent, self aware etc. Data for example would easily pass the Turing test. in fact the only reason he WOULDN'T is because it'd fast become clear he was TOO smart. from what we saw of the Synths, however, they weren't partiuclarly clever and likely would have failed the Turing test. seeming to be, at best, as smart as a mentally handi-capped child.
this.. actually makes some sense, the road block to building more Data's was his brain. but you don't nesscarily NEED a highly advanced brain for some roles. without his advanced brain you still have an exceptionally strong, and an exceptionally durable, human shaped object. perfect for a labourer, partiuclarly in adverse conditions.
ingtaer wrote: Please, just don't bring Burnham into it...
Have watched both episodes and they are okay, nothing really great (bar Stewart's acting) and not anything really terrible. It does make me wonder how the law passed in "The Measure of a Man" became in the future an entire race of disposable people, wonder if it will come up.
my guess is the synths used on Mars where more primative then Data. Datawas ruled to be an individual because he was clearly intelligent, self aware etc. Data for example would easily pass the Turing test. in fact the only reason he WOULDN'T is because it'd fast become clear he was TOO smart. from what we saw of the Synths, however, they weren't partiuclarly clever and likely would have failed the Turing test. seeming to be, at best, as smart as a mentally handi-capped child.
this.. actually makes some sense, the road block to building more Data's was his brain. but you don't nesscarily NEED a highly advanced brain for some roles. without his advanced brain you still have an exceptionally strong, and an exceptionally durable, human shaped object. perfect for a labourer, partiuclarly in adverse conditions.
That's a good argument, I guess a large part of it would be whether the ruling made was specific to Data or to Androids in general, I am sure it must have come up further when Data built his daughter but I cant remember the specifics of that episode (gonna have to watch it this evening). If, indeed, intelligence was the defining trait the ramifications of that would have been pretty immense.
ingtaer wrote: Please, just don't bring Burnham into it...
Have watched both episodes and they are okay, nothing really great (bar Stewart's acting) and not anything really terrible. It does make me wonder how the law passed in "The Measure of a Man" became in the future an entire race of disposable people, wonder if it will come up.
my guess is the synths used on Mars where more primative then Data. Datawas ruled to be an individual because he was clearly intelligent, self aware etc. Data for example would easily pass the Turing test. in fact the only reason he WOULDN'T is because it'd fast become clear he was TOO smart. from what we saw of the Synths, however, they weren't partiuclarly clever and likely would have failed the Turing test. seeming to be, at best, as smart as a mentally handi-capped child.
this.. actually makes some sense, the road block to building more Data's was his brain. but you don't nesscarily NEED a highly advanced brain for some roles. without his advanced brain you still have an exceptionally strong, and an exceptionally durable, human shaped object. perfect for a labourer, partiuclarly in adverse conditions.
That's a good argument, I guess a large part of it would be whether the ruling made was specific to Data or to Androids in general, I am sure it must have come up further when Data built his daughter but I cant remember the specifics of that episode (gonna have to watch it this evening). If, indeed, intelligence was the defining trait the ramifications of that would have been pretty immense.
the entire argument for Data's freedoms (as seen in the TNG episode "the measure of a man") is that he is sentient and to deny a sentient, even AI, rights, would be a form of slavery. So sentience is defiantly at play here. If the androids currently in use (and I suspect their being called "synths" instead of androids was a deliberate attempt to seperate them from Data in the minds of people) where basicly no smarter then a dog, or a child, then yeah they can proably avoid it
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Let me know if you need some reading material. We are Kondoing the house, which means giving away a large portion of my book horde, including some Star Trek and Black Library novels. I’d prefer to send them to someone who will read them rather than just donate them all to the library and hope they find good homes.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, which book?
That's a very generous offer. PM incoming. It's "The Shocks of Adversity". The preview on the back sounded interesting and my choices were limited regardless.
warboss wrote: It's best not to dwell on it; the writers obviously didn't.
I have to say that it seems like I'm in the minority in not liking Picard unlike with Disco where it felt like a pretty even split in the fandom. Youtubers that I respect (but don't always agree with) seem to like it or at least think it's ok. I don't hate it but rather it's more just a moderate dislike mixed with an apathy borne of severe disappointment with Disco season 1. I think I've finally accepted that Star Trek just isn't for me anymore and likely never will be.
Well just as likely to change again
Discovery and Picard seem very different (so far) in pacing and style, yeah they both have let the cast swear but thats just a gimick..... so far for me Picard could have been a DS9 epsiode (except or swearing) in terms of content.
As I mentioned before there are a few odd choices but nice to see Orla Brady again (she was great in Into the Badlands)
I am hopefuly but I was Disco season 2 and that turned out so very bad.
warboss wrote: It's best not to dwell on it; the writers obviously didn't.
I have to say that it seems like I'm in the minority in not liking Picard unlike with Disco where it felt like a pretty even split in the fandom. Youtubers that I respect (but don't always agree with) seem to like it or at least think it's ok. I don't hate it but rather it's more just a moderate dislike mixed with an apathy borne of severe disappointment with Disco season 1. I think I've finally accepted that Star Trek just isn't for me anymore and likely never will be.
Well just as likely to change again
Discovery and Picard seem very different (so far) in pacing and style, yeah they both have let the cast swear but thats just a gimick..... so far for me Picard could have been a DS9 epsiode (except or swearing) in terms of content.
As I mentioned before there are a few odd choices but nice to see Orla Brady again (she was great in Into the Badlands)
I am hopefuly but I was Disco season 2 and that turned out so very bad.
yeah Agreed. Picard feels like DS9, in that they're willing to show an imperfect Federation, but they still are giving us a show that feels like the trek we grew up with
For me, the most important thing is that so far, it feels like a logical progression for Picard as the main character.
There's been nothing in the first two episodes that've had a 'huh' from me, in terms of his reactions and actions. Everything just feels right, despite 20+ years of unknown.
Agreed! Whilst its a change its more an evolution of what we knew and loved rather than a total change over. I think that Patrick Steward is likely helping ensure that. I've seen a few interviews with him over the years and one thing that keeps coming through is that he always wanted his acting to "mean something."
In fact he stays that early on Startek wasn't something he wanted it to do as it wasn't going to mean anything. It wasn't changing lives and it wasn't like he was preserving part of history and culture like with his Shakespearean acting.
However as TNG and Startrek in general gained momentum and impact I think it did start to affect lives and I think he's found its value. That puts a lot of passion into him as an actor. I think its why we are getting such a well placed script that isn't re-inventing the wheel and is instead taking what we had and building upon it with a natural progression.
You can clearly see Sir Patrick’s influence as the show rolled on. And as the rest of the cast are on record saying, his professionalism and ability helped push them to improve.
I mean, consider the first season. Then, say, Chain of Command. And how Picard simply gets more and more short with Q, whilst growing as a Captain (softening on the family side of The Enterprise).
Throughout those seven seasons, his growth is remarkably organic. Nothing seemed false or forced. And for me, Peak Picard (Peakard?) comes in this frankly astounding scene from First Contact.
His rage is so very unlike the fairly calm and collected Captain we’ve known. And yet, it works, beautifully. Just every single bit of it. Especially as it continues the Trek Movie ‘loose literary reference’ tradition.
And we see clear callbacks to that in the first episode with his interview.
As fantastically talented as Sir Patrick is, coming back to a role 20 odd years later, and seeming like you never left is no small task. Hats off to the writers and producers for clearly respecting all that came before.
Sure, it’s still early days, and maybe we’ll see things slip. But I personally doubt it.
AduroT wrote: Well now I’m really wondering how they draw a distinction between sentient AI and the EMH.
Holograms are just a body form limited by needing emitters to function. In a practical sense this limits them to specific areas of a ship, typically the holodeck, but also the Doctor in Voyager as an emergency program. All of them are technically a form of AI, however they become true living AI only by accident. TNG had Moriarti; DS9 had someone running a bar and Voyager had the Dr. His key difference being that unlike the others (bound to a holodeck and often a specific program within it); he was bound to the medical deck until he got his future-tech patch that allowed him to roam freely.
Like Data they are accidents in so much as they weren't meant to be alive but are. I think also that most of them don't tend to have a supremely high level of self awareness or improvement, they just sort of are as they are, but are also self aware enough to count as alive. The Dr on Voyager took it to the next level in self improvement and change; which I think sets him apart from many of the others. There might also be other subtle limitations in how they can adapt and evolve. Data likely had a greater range of potential; however even he still had limits such as emotions (until we got the emotion chip).
In the end the ST world clearly has a means to separate an AI like the ships computer, which has a vast wealth of information and duties; and a "true living" AI like Data from each other.
The 'AI rights' episode of voyagers had all the repurposed EMHs given 'personhood.' So the Doctor wasn't a strange or rare example, he was the default- all of them had the capacity to grow if given the opportunity.
And since they were switched from emergency holograms to full work crews for hazardous conditions, they'd garner the run time to develop that way. Something the testing never picked up since they were designed to run for maybe 100 hours over the lifetime of a ship (only in emergencies when a star fleet doctor wasn't available or needed help).
That ability to develop is presumably why the Federation gave them rights rather than just press the delete key.
---
Functionally, there isn't any reason a ST ship's computer couldn't develop full sapience, unless it was intentionally lobotomized by its programming so it couldn't. But that sounds annoying to deal with, so they never did it on the show.
There seems to be a major disconnect around what the Federation acknowledged as life and the personhood of synthetic life as encountered in previous Trek series, and this new show, that appears to be dramatically understated.
The Federation recognized Data, the EMH, and even sapient silicon sand as protected sentient life. Doing a 180 on that as casually and as decisively as the show is making it out is hard to take.
That said, the show is still entertaining, albeit painfully cliche. The motorcycle helmeted bad guys however need to go. That kinda worked in the 90's, now it just looks stupid and immersion breaking. Whoever made that particular wardrobe choice should feel bad.
It is interesting to note how...realistic the responses to Picard are for a lot of this. In TNG everyone would have hopped to do as Picard asked, or he'd have had the opportunity to convince them through elegant argumentation. Now, he's getting called on his bs (or getting other people's bs projected on him in some cases) like real people actually would, even if he's still basically getting his way.
One thing that IS worth noting. The Admiral that DID call Picard on his behaviour and threw him out of her office.
Then immediately went off to investigate exactly what he said. - But was then outmaneuvered by Not-So-Secretly-Evil-Boss.
And I think it's kind of that that helps assuage my concerns about the show. - Not-So-Secretly-Evil-Bosses are a staple of Star Trek, so I'm fine with that.
So it sort of helps avoid my worry of the show that that it's the Federation is turned into a Strawman Bad Political Entity.
I'm kind of assuming the synth ban only applies to deliberately created entities, with things like the Exocomp which 'evolved' being excluded.
I'm wondering what authority...
Spoiler:
the Not-So-Secretly-Evil-Boss had to interview the civilian Dr. Jurati? Is it because Dr Jurati is ex-Starfleet, is the Daystrom Institute now run by Starfleet, or do Starfleet just police everyone now?
No, what we're seeing is simply the federation as a HUMAN political entity. the romulan evacuation was straining starfleet resources, so I can well imagine sentiment wasn't entirely sold on it. Imagine if you needed a federation starship to show up to your world to address a problem and you're told "gonna have to just deal with those earth quakes for the next two years because we're devoting almost all our resources to saving the romulans.you know the guys who less then a decade before had attempted a genocidal attack on earth? Sure WE know Shinzon was a special case and wasn't just the romulans, but do the people of the federation know? I mean if we use the Picard count down comics, even while Picard was trying to save lives by evacuating romulan worlds, some romulans where attempting to screw him over.
in mind when we had a ships crew forming up with one smoking. Granted it might have needed Number One to come along for the ride to get the full effect
I liked this episode, it built perfectly on from the previous one and set things up. Episodes 2 and 3 blend together really well and could have been done as one super-long episode, but wouldn't have worked well being squished into one. As much as we want to get into space, I think if they'd squished them into one we'd have lost out on so much subtle backstory and had a very rushed experience.
Going slower let each scene develop for itself at its own pace. Now we've got a very conveniently placed cybernetics Dr. on the team; we've got a whole new layer of potential confusion relating to the synths as well and a new layer of relation between the Romulans and the Cube. We've even got Hugh appearing once again!
We also got a short display of who this new woman in Picards life is. An important element to establish early on since he was going to her and not any of his other original crew. I think its a good reminder on how when he was working at Starfleet he didn't stop being himself. We sort of got a feeling with Kirk that he never stopped being a Captain. He seemed to not make new connections when he stepped down from the Enterprise. Meanwhile we see that Picard is very different and he's continued to build quite a large roster of new allies and friends in his new position. In many ways he's dealt with his friends and co-workers moving on better than Kirk did.
I've not seen the episode yet, but that always seemed like it was Kirk. He only ever felt alive on the bridge of the Enterprise. And everyone knew it. Even his enemies knew it.
I suspect in part because Kirk's Enterprise went further out and dealt a lot more with the fringes. One got the feeling that Picard was dancing on the boundaries of the federation, but communications and missions within the interior were far more common for him. Meanwhile Kirk was a full explorer and often far more isolated with just his ship and crew.
I quite liked the way that the funny-leaf vaping woman was living in the shadow of the place where Bill and Ted were thrown off the cliff by the evil robot Bill and Ted - that's your android rebellion right there.
Also the location of the Star Trek cosplay photoshoot in the Big Bang Theory.
Think it was used in another TV series decades ago, but I couldn't for the life of me remember what it was called.
Also, calling it now. Android doctor lady is working for Romulan/Vulcan Starfleet woman in shades.
Chillreaper wrote: I
Think it was used in another TV series decades ago, but I couldn't for the life of me remember what it was called.
isnt it where Kirk and that Gorn had a set to ?
Yep, the episode was The Arena. Complete with slo-mo space Kung Fu and a random Macgyvered diamond cannon.
I just thought that having a classic original ST episode reference might be a bit too obvious for the show, but obviously, the producers thought otherwise.
From what I gather there's rules in the city whereby if you go X distance from the studio it still counts as "in studio" wages wise; but if you go beyond that distance then you suddenly have to pay travel wages which are more. Which means a lot of studios tend to use those rocks and that region because its within the boundaries so they don't have to pay more.
Plus chances are if that they are that heavily used they've likely good the right on-site facilities to make it easier. It might even just be good parking and site access and such.
it's a character study, it's not a blam blam action series. it's intreasting if you find the type of show it is intreasting, if you're looking for sci-fi action then yeah yoiu'll hate it
it's a character study, it's not a blam blam action series. it's intreasting if you find the type of show it is intreasting, if you're looking for sci-fi action then yeah yoiu'll hate it
it's a character study, it's not a blam blam action series. it's intreasting if you find the type of show it is intreasting, if you're looking for sci-fi action then yeah yoiu'll hate it
They have had a few cool fight scenes
ohh agreed, and those are great but if you go into it expecting it to be non stop fight scenes you're going to not like it. (course if you go into it expecting non stop fight scenes you proably shouldn't waste time with star trek tbh. trek has never been a "action franchise" JJ Abrams trek aside)
Thanks, just the reinforcement I need to continue not bothering checking it out. I love TNG too much to bother with such cheap nostalgia chicanery as Picard surely is... now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to rewatch that new SW show. Mandalorian-armoured bounty hunters, small green space wizards, 'proper' stormtroopers and Apollo Creed.
Thanks, just the reinforcement I need to continue not bothering checking it out. I love TNG too much to bother with such cheap nostalgia chicanery as Picard surely is... now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to rewatch that new SW show. Mandalorian-armoured bounty hunters, small green space wizards, 'proper' stormtroopers and Apollo Creed.
if you like TNG you'll be fine with the series. after all it's not like TNG was exciting action sequence after action sequence
Thanks, just the reinforcement I need to continue not bothering checking it out. I love TNG too much to bother with such cheap nostalgia chicanery as Picard surely is... now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to rewatch that new SW show. Mandalorian-armoured bounty hunters, small green space wizards, 'proper' stormtroopers and Apollo Creed.
if you like TNG you'll be fine with the series. after all it's not like TNG was exciting action sequence after action sequence
I've got zero interest in the show regardless; I was just making a cheap joke about both shows mining nostalgia and being fine (and oblivious) to the Mandalorian doing it but using it as a stick to beat Picard with.
It's starting to lean that way for me too. Don't mind things being slower and more about character than action, but I've been burned one too many times by shows which spend a long time setting up things that end up having no pay-off. Picard is showing signs of maybe going that way but I'm willing to keep watching as there's still some good stuff there, mainly whenever Patrick Stewart is on-screen.
What I'd like to see sooner rather than later is some meaningful link-up/crossover between the Picard and Romulan storylines. I'd also like to see the Romulan storyline actually go somewhere at some point. It's pretty cool (if unbelievably dumb in-universe) seeing them messing about with Borg tech but they need to start paying off that side of the story pretty quickly for me.
It's starting to lean that way for me too. Don't mind things being slower and more about character than action, but I've been burned one too many times by shows which spend a long time setting up things that end up having no pay-off. Picard is showing signs of maybe going that way but I'm willing to keep watching as there's still some good stuff there, mainly whenever Patrick Stewart is on-screen.
What I'd like to see sooner rather than later is some meaningful link-up/crossover between the Picard and Romulan storylines. I'd also like to see the Romulan storyline actually go somewhere at some point. It's pretty cool (if unbelievably dumb in-universe) seeing them messing about with Borg tech but they need to start paying off that side of the story pretty quickly for me.
I can't belive they won't go anywhere with it, I mean I'm sure they understand that Chekov's gun isn't just a TOS Phaser pistol
It's starting to lean that way for me too. Don't mind things being slower and more about character than action, but I've been burned one too many times by shows which spend a long time setting up things that end up having no pay-off. Picard is showing signs of maybe going that way but I'm willing to keep watching as there's still some good stuff there, mainly whenever Patrick Stewart is on-screen.
What I'd like to see sooner rather than later is some meaningful link-up/crossover between the Picard and Romulan storylines. I'd also like to see the Romulan storyline actually go somewhere at some point. It's pretty cool (if unbelievably dumb in-universe) seeing them messing about with Borg tech but they need to start paying off that side of the story pretty quickly for me.
I can't belive they won't go anywhere with it, I mean I'm sure they understand that Chekov's gun isn't just a TOS Phaser pistol
I'm sure it'll go somewhere, it's just the speed with which they get there and the impact of whatever that something is that worries me. Been burned by this a fair amount while watching some other shows lately.
I signed up for a free trial of CBS through my Amazon account and binged the three episodes yesterday. I do think the show would benefit more from being able to watch all the episodes at once rather than having a full week in between them.
Bringing us up to speed with what’s changed in the intervening 20 years, without revealing everything.
There’s Picard himself. How did the Captain of the Federation Flagship walk away?
The Federation. Hints it’d become differently idealistic in the wake of the Dominion War. I mean, that event isn’t explicitly a driving force, but in the background it’s still the source of a sea change in attitude.
There’s the fallout of Romulus going kablooey, and the wider impact.
There’s the apparent Synthetic ‘rebellion’ and a couple of hints at what happened and what might’ve caused it (F-8 clearly received some kind of order, whether at range or pre- programmed).
For three episodes, that quite a lot to pack in, with plenty more to come. And somehow, they’ve packed that into a fairly easy pace. Nothing too difficult to follow, nothing garbled. Sure some stuff takes a second watch, but I don’t consider that a bad thing at all (YMMV).
Yeah the 20 odd year gap is huge. Consider that many of the original crew have likely gone on to retire and/or get promoted several times. Or even leave or have time to get demoted etc... Several of them are likely captains with perhaps a decade or more running their own ships under their belt - that's as long if not longer than we saw the Enterprise on her original missions in the TV series.
There's so much that's changed so having a few episodes that establish important elements is key. Why isn't picard a respected admiral; why isn't he running around with his old crew; why is he living with Romulans. There's a lot of questions - try and squeeze that into one episode and it would feel rushed, forced and flat.
Like any story heavy series that isn't (currently) relying fully on a repeat weekly adventure pattern; seeing the whole thing in one go over in episodes; does pace things better. Episodes 2 and 3 blend together almost perfectly in that regard. However at the same time I think there's something nice in having it drawn out. I do love binge watching, but it has a different effect and I think it can also stifle growth of a series because all the hype and action and talk is over within the release two weeks or so. Meanwhile the Picard series will keep people talking and getting drawn in over the months that its out.
Of course sometimes a new series can get a big jump start having a big launch with everything on show. So its not like one method fits best.
Definitely sliding into the camp of thinking this is too slow and labored.
Ok its only 3 episodes in but virtually nothing has really happened for me.
Also is it me or some pretty big plot holes/wand waves starting
Spoiler:
romulan hit team are able to find, infiltrate, disable picards chateau, yet scientist girl miraculously arrives at the same time to save the day?
raffys ship is able to hang in low earth orbit, undetected, seen, registered or hailed? then suddenly flies off wherever it wants
high ranking star fleet director of SECURITY is actually an infiltrator?
PS the whiskey drinking, smoking, hard ass captain guy is such a total for me.
romulan hit team are able to find, infiltrate, disable picards chateau, yet scientist girl miraculously arrives at the same time to save the day?
raffys ship is able to hang in low earth orbit, undetected, seen, registered or hailed? then suddenly flies off wherever it wants
high ranking star fleet director of SECURITY is actually an infiltrator?
PS the whiskey drinking, smoking, hard ass captain guy is such a total for me.
Spoiler:
1) I noticed that too. She's either got Startrek-good timing or she was brought along with the infiltration team as a back-up. We don't actually know what she has or hasn't agreed to with the security officer. She might well be in league with her and both could be using Picard for their own ends. Especially since we saw that there is some contention between the head of security and her agents in the field.
2) Raffy was already shown to be a smuggler/not totally legit captain. So being able to hang in orbit, teleport off and leave doesn't sound too impossible. Also this is the Federation during a time of peace. Chances are leaving orbit in your ship requires as much red tape as you chartering a boat and going sailing. Ergo there are rules and regs, but its not policed to an insane degree. Sure a Starfleet ship with crew has far more red-tape, but a self employed ship captain doesn't "have" to answer to anyone extensively. This fits with how we generally see spacetravel in the rest of the series
3) We don't actually know that. We know only that she's involved in this situation, but since we don't even know the full story of the two synthetics its hard to say what "side" she's on or what her angle or reasoning is. That said a high ranking official being on the "bad" or dubious side of things is not uncommon in the setting either.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Sounds like they’re going for the nBSG crowd rather than Star Trek fans to me.
Six of one, half dozen of the other.
We might as well face it, just as SciFi grew and matured between ToS and TNG, it’s grown and matured further since TNG, and BSG remains a major milestone. To ignore that with a new show risks it look quaint and cheesy.
For instance, I grew up on TNG, and as such, for my sins, I just cannot take TOS seriously. It’s too campy and silly for my tastes. Yes TNG had more than a few moments of camp and silly, and there’s nothing wrong with camp and silly.
But BSG showed me just how good SciFi can be with a decent mind behind it. I’ve even developed a respect and tolerance for its wonky final season (which remains fundamentally a victim of the writer’s strike).
Three episodes in, I feel like Picard is more or less striking that right balance between its origins and modernity. Importantly, it’s still recognisably Star Trek, and as I said before, Picard himself feels like a natural development of the character. Nothing reinvented, just additional layers based on as yet largely unexplored experience.
If this was a ‘one and done’ show, I may be a harsher critic. But we know Season 2 is coming, and Guinan is highly likely to feature. So they almost certainly won’t be telling all over the next seven episodes.
And now we’re headed out to Space, that’s when it’ll sink or swim I feel.
Guinan always felt like a character with a lot of potential let go to waste. There's always been that strange episode where she met Q and there was hint of rivalry between them. Her presence in the time travel episode and the Nexus movie (Generations) all often led us to think that she had more knowledge/power to herself than she ever let on in the series. I think about the only time we ever saw her show "power" was when there was a fight in Ten Forward and she pulls out a huge lasergun and fires it into the air to quiet people (I believe there was some effect causing increased tension within the crew causing the fight, but I'm really hazy on what happened in that episode).
But overall she felt like a character who established herself well and then was mostly put to one side.
Mr Morden wrote: Uhh gods not Guinan - really disliked her - hope she is never seen again on screen.
Cameo at the very, very least I’d say, provided contract negotiations go well (and they may be already done, as one cannot rule this out as a rather adorable PR stunt).
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Sounds like they’re going for the nBSG crowd rather than Star Trek fans to me.
Six of one, half dozen of the other.
We might as well face it, just as SciFi grew and matured between ToS and TNG, it’s grown and matured further since TNG, and BSG remains a major milestone. To ignore that with a new show risks it look quaint and cheesy.
For instance, I grew up on TNG, and as such, for my sins, I just cannot take TOS seriously. It’s too campy and silly for my tastes. Yes TNG had more than a few moments of camp and silly, and there’s nothing wrong with camp and silly.
But BSG showed me just how good SciFi can be with a decent mind behind it. I’ve even developed a respect and tolerance for its wonky final season (which remains fundamentally a victim of the writer’s strike).
Three episodes in, I feel like Picard is more or less striking that right balance between its origins and modernity. Importantly, it’s still recognisably Star Trek, and as I said before, Picard himself feels like a natural development of the character. Nothing reinvented, just additional layers based on as yet largely unexplored experience.
If this was a ‘one and done’ show, I may be a harsher critic. But we know Season 2 is coming, and Guinan is highly likely to feature. So they almost certainly won’t be telling all over the next seven episodes.
Trek
And now we’re headed out to Space, that’s when it’ll sink or swim I feel.
I don't think we'll ever see eye-to-eye on this. I feel like TNG has aged far better than nBSG. NBSG had two good seasons that were riveting because we wanted to see what would happen next, know the answers to the mysteries. They do not stand on their own. Then it became clear the writers had no plan, not even character arcs, and the show ended so badly that the series became un-rewatchable. The same kind of darker and edgier writing with the same lazy lack of foreplanning has ruined many sci fi series since then--it has never yielded a timeless classic or even a rewatchable show in my opinion.
I also don't want Star Trek to sacrifice what made it unique just to pander to dubious trends. If someone wants good, dark sci fi, I understand the Expanse fills that niche. If one wants an optimistic look at a future where humanity has made great progress, like Star Trek--the Orville kind of works. When I think of Star Trek, I think of a utopian future where humanity has "made it" to quote Rich Evans. I don't want a "human" Starfleet. I can get "human" (which always means jerkass rather than humane or selfless for some reason) drama on almost any show. Let Star Trek be the shining ideal that made it such an icon in the first place.
Having grown up with the 1970's broadcast of kick-ass-and-take-names TOS on the BBC I have a hard time appreciating TNG. It just seemed so bland. Beige starship (and yes the Galaxy class is awful), most of the characters dull and uninteresting and all that waffling in the board room... it was all so.... admin!.
I don't think we'll ever see eye-to-eye on this. I feel like TNG has aged far better than nBSG. NBSG had two good seasons that were riveting because we wanted to see what would happen next, know the answers to the mysteries. They do not stand on their own. Then it became clear the writers had no plan, not even character arcs, and the show ended so badly that the series became un-rewatchable. The same kind of darker and edgier writing with the same lazy lack of foreplanning has ruined many sci fi series since then--it has never yielded a timeless classic or even a rewatchable show in my opinion.
I think you're giving it too much credit. The relationships felt like they were the worst kind of high school melodrama (esp. Adama jr and Dualla), and the obsession with senseless murder-rape is more juvenile than dark and edgy.
The campy original stands up better as a lasting show... and how to hold a %&@# camera for a decent shot.
I also don't want Star Trek to sacrifice what made it unique just to pander to dubious trends. If someone wants good, dark sci fi, I understand the Expanse fills that niche. If one wants an optimistic look at a future where humanity has made great progress, like Star Trek--the Orville kind of works. When I think of Star Trek, I think of a utopian future where humanity has "made it" to quote Rich Evans. I don't want a "human" Starfleet. I can get "human" (which always means jerkass rather than humane or selfless for some reason) drama on almost any show. Let Star Trek be the shining ideal that made it such an icon in the first place.
Agreed on this though. We (as a culture/species) need icons and aspiration, not more tearing down. There's enough of that. I've seen some good dark shows, but not in a long while. It still needs some meaning behind it, not dark for dark's sake, or a paper-thin mindless critique of contemporary politics in a setting where they simply don't fit.
MarkNorfolk wrote: Having grown up with the 1970's broadcast of kick-ass-and-take-names TOS on the BBC I have a hard time appreciating TNG. It just seemed so bland. Beige starship (and yes the Galaxy class is awful), most of the characters dull and uninteresting and all that waffling in the board room... it was all so.... admin!.
That's fine. Every show doesn't need to appeal to every person. I personally find legal shows, police procedurals and medical dramas lame. They bore me to tears. But shame on me if I ever wished on them Alex Kurtzman Kung fu space battles to liven them up.
It's billions upon billions of people. The Romulans clearly moved many with their own ships, but had way too many people to move.
Starfleet likely does have access to the biggest fleet of ships in the quadrant, especially at short notice. Plus don't forget with the Federation you'd likely get a lot of allied factions join in as well to swell the numbers.
They likely would have made a vast difference in the number of people saved. Sure they might still not get everyone, but they'd likely have made a massive dent in the numbers compared to the Romulans doing it on their own.
Plus there's the fact that the Romulans were mostly left to do it on their own. So at a time of great need this faction that has been looking down on the Romulans from their high moral seat - in the end - was more bluster than action. A huge humanitarian (Romulatarian?) event and the Federation got scared off and backed off.
Very true. Heck when you think of it the civilian market often has access to not just more ships, but often bigger ships. Just think of the modern world and all the tankers, transports and even cruise liners that dwarf warships until you get to carriers - of which there are generally far fewer. Plus many of those civilian ships would either be ideally suited to holding large numbers of people (cruise liners) or could be easily adapted to hold large numbers - eg a massive refit of containers on a container ship to provide space for basic prefab stacked survival shelters and the like.
The Federation likely has very similar elements in their civilian fleet. Transports, holiday ships, containers. Chances are a major part of the Mars base of operations wasn't just organisation, but also refitting and training and preparation.
The only curious thing is that they'd got the whole fleet in one single place for this, however logistically it might have made the most sense - esp since the Federation started from Earth, its likely a major hub so most ships would pass through.
Mr Morden wrote: Would it not have been easier to move the planet ? I would have thought either the Federation or the Empire would be able to do that in extremis.
Whilst there are creatures that could do that in Startrek - most of them wouldn't. Many of the "I'm a god no really I am" in the Original series have fallen to one side of the lore in all that followed. Plus most were restricted to their world of origin. Vger and similarly other vast powers are often defeated or otherwise removed from the story so they won't be around to lend a hand. Meanwhile the most present force that could save the Romulans, The Q, would have no interest. Barring the Q we meet regularly in the series, and he'd be more likely to have created the situation to test Picard/humanity and would then resolve it at the end and all would move on to next weeks episode.
Otherwise "mega" engineering like that just isn't present in Startrek. There's a few - V'ger, The Bork Collective, The Dyson Sphere (where Scotty crash landed and was saved from, but by and large they are either not under the control of the Federation or they just aren't around any more (I forget if anything happened with the Dyson Sphere structure beyond saving Scotty).
There's a few exotics we know little about that display great power, like the Probe from the second film, however we know so little about such races that they'd hardly be there to call on to move a world.
So nope, beyond finding some means to stop the supernova happening (likely using the deflector shield/array), the only effective solution is to evacuate the population.
They could have shifted the planet a bit with tractor beams and warp bubbles, but nowhere near far enough to save it.
In the old new Trek lore, the Hobus Star went supernova and its subspace shockwave is what destroyed Romulus/Romulus’ Star (The Wolf Star?). Presumably some illegal subspace weapons or an omega particle or two could have stopped the shockwaves’ propagation... but the new new Trek lore has the Romulan sun exploding instead. Not much anyone could really do about that.
If only they had some sort of interstellar beaming capability, they wouldn’t need so many transports.
Even if they could move a planet, once its moved even a tiny distance from a sun the resulting temperature shifts would fast make it inhospitable. Moving it far enough to survive a supernova and the planet would be ICE cold very quickly. So you'd hav frozen Romulans
Transporter beams can't travel (normally) across space. Even on planets I believe its setup with multiple relays to allow transporting over large areas of the surface. To move people worlds away they'd have to setup a huge network of relay stations and the fact that its not been done already suggests that the resources for it are insanely huge and the increased risks very high. They might all get corrupted en-rout.
Corruption in Transporters tends to be an earlier issue. I think Original Series dealt with it once or twice and in the movies also tackled it (McCoy hated them as, being medical, he'd had to deal with the fallout of accidents/mistakes). It was also mentioned in the Enterprise series (their ship being one of the first to make extensive use of organic transporting).
By TNG and beyond its pretty safe provided nothing goes wrong. If anything does it can result in all kinds of problems.
Not sure how long they had to do it but quite some time as they had to build a entire fleet of new ships.
Still not sure that the same massive engineering project to build that number of ships could not have built a big warp engine and artifical heat source to move the planet? It already would have a decent planetary shield.
But then maybe they don't want warp capable planets
Well this is Startrek not BATTLE PLANETS (which I never saw the TV series of but it had freaking cool toys back in the day - always annoyed that I never got the full collection of them)
beast_gts wrote: I'm kind of assuming the synth ban only applies to deliberately created entities, with things like the Exocomp which 'evolved' being excluded.
I'm wondering what authority...
Spoiler:
the Not-So-Secretly-Evil-Boss had to interview the civilian Dr. Jurati? Is it because Dr Jurati is ex-Starfleet, is the Daystrom Institute now run by Starfleet, or do Starfleet just police everyone now?
Starfleet has always carried out law enforcement for Federation civilians - at least since just before the Dominion war. It was Starfleet, after all, who prosecuted Bashir’s parents for illegal genetic modification. I’d also argue that the tribunal in Measure of a Man should have been in a civilian court rather than a military one, if they had civilian courts.
They brought back the original actor for Hugh, but not Icheb or Maddox?
I briefly thought Bjayzl was Deanna Troi And I wonder if Jurati is a synth...
Spoiler:
Not having the original actors could be due to the actors being unavailable for the role, or not wanting to return to the role.
As for Jurati, it sounds like there was more to her encounter with the Commodore than we thought. Whether they recruited her then, or she's been a part of the conspiracy for some time now. She certainly appears to know the great secret that the Romulans are so desperate to keep hidden.
Anyway, things have been kicked into gear with this latest episode, and the preview at the end looks to keep the ball rolling. I do still think this show would certainly benefit from being able to watch it all at once, rather than a week in between episodes.
AndrewGPaul wrote: Starfleet has always carried out law enforcement for Federation civilians - at least since just before the Dominion war. It was Starfleet, after all, who prosecuted Bashir’s parents for illegal genetic modification. I’d also argue that the tribunal in Measure of a Man should have been in a civilian court rather than a military one, if they had civilian courts.
I keep thinking we've seen civilian police, but the only example I can find is from the start of the first reboot movie.
The issue i've been having with this series is when I finish the episode I usually don't feel satisfied. It's more of a shrug and that's it moment, the show is taking it's time to get somewhere but that time being spent doesn't feel well spent. Which is super odd for me cause I was able to sit through an almost two hour episode of totdy at a glacial pace. Maybe the artistry and direction here is just too run of the mill. I feel pretty entertained while watching it. But looking back at the episodes i've seen, i've thought would I ever want to rewatch all this? The answer is probably not.
Yes there was a bit of the silly element to the whole crime mission in the middle; but overall this episode really delivered. I really liked that they took the doctors betrayal in the last part, it tied up her appearance at Picards manor a few episodes back very nicely. I think leaving that open would have weakened the writing for the series in general.
We see a side of Seven that's very "Ripley/Rambo" style. A bit of a divide from her more serious Voyager days, but it seems that, in her way, she's finding her humanity. Plus if she's been a combat heavy ranger for a decade or more then that would certainly fit. She also slips in and out of her more boisterous ranger and her more serious borg/voyager aspects of her personality. Perhaps some part of her is "acting" the rough and tumble part as a means to her humanity and identity. Picard sending her back I think was fine, he's getting to grips with the fact that he can't save everyone and that he's not got a huge crew to work for him to achieve that end goal.
We also learned a bit more about the fall of the Romulans and that now we get a sense that Romulan and Federation space was ok, but that its the boundary neutral zone that has suffered more so in terms of being left to its own devices. Clearly the Romulans don't have the resources to devote to invading and taking over; nor does the Federation want to push too far in in case they get bitten by a hostile Romulan force - esp when Romulan peoples are scattered through their population as well.
As for Freeport don't forget its not Federation; its what Quarks would have been if he'd had more money and wasn't Federation controlled.
Moving forward we've now got the doctors betrayal on the ship to contend with, though that all hinges on the EMH program. Being as she worked in cybernetics we might see her use that to her advantage, however its also very clear that she's way out of her depth. So its 50/50 on if she manages to cover her tracks or not. That she didn't try to cover them medically is very interesting, its again showing that she's reacting rather than thinking things through. Her panic at the transporter is also more apparent since she was taking an overt step in bringing herself in contact with someone she loves, but whom she doesn't want Picard to meet. Because if he does he will learn things she doesn't want him to learn. It answers why someone who is clearly technically and scientifically minded would be scared at operating a transporter. She didn't want to save him; to confront him; because then she had to kill him. All that rising panic explains her attitude through most of the episode.
I can understand some not liking it because its not the same Trek it was in TNG, but honestly I'm finding the writers and characters well put together. We are seeing demons and they are also doing very well for filling in a 10-15 year gap for most of the old-cast and setting for the viewer. That's not a small thing to achieve and they could have tried getting away with hand waving explaining things. Instead we are getting the links which bring things forward. It also bodes well because each of those links brought forward is clearly helping us establish things moving forward. Seven surviving her near suicide attack is clearly something we might expect now that we know she's been basically a phaser slinging law enforcer for a long period of time. We see the doctor continuing to break down; we see Raffi dealing with more fall out in her life from the attack on Mars and we even see Picard getting used to being in a second position not a first in several situations.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: I know what you mean. Much as I’m enjoying it, could do with a little more oomph?
However, judgement is reserved until I can sit down and binge the lot.
Agreed, however I get the feeling that the way the episodes back right onto each other the feeling we are getting is partly intentional. Instead of big events each week, its a steady boil toward major events. Its' like watching a film split into parts rather than a traditional episodic TV series. Chances are binging the whole thing in one go you'd not get the same feelings. That slow second and third episodes would blend into one without any break or pause etc...
I think the lack of oomph is ok so long as we leave each episode wanting more. Which I certainly am at this stage.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: The latest RLM review seems to confirm all my misgivings about the show.
I can't wait for them to see the latest episode with the death of hope/optimism/federation/other things that I can't name because spoilers. From the sound of it, this latest episode was more Altered Carbon meets Saw (both of which I like individually) than Star Trek.
I loved the hint a certain old musical theme at the end of the episode, keep an ear out for it.
I'm kind of weirdly ok with it being quite dark right now, story-wise (Some of this one reminds me of 'In the pale Moonlight'), but I hope at the seasons end, they find the Star Trek optimism again.
Regarding whatever the Great Mind-Breaking Secret is, I suspect we, the audience, will be somewhat let down by it. After all of the various stories we've experienced through TV, movies, books, video games, etc., how can it live up to the expectations the show is setting it up for? I hope the Secret will still be interesting, or, at least, handled in an interesting way once revealed.
So I finished reading the Picard Prequal novel and it hints (unsuprisingly) that the Romulan super nova may not have been natural. this isn't a suprise, and the question is if they'll go anywhere with it. Now we know Soji has been called "the destroyer" but we dunno what that means. I've got two theories on it.
One: she does indeed "destroy" everything in a metaphorical sense in that she leads to such a dramatic change in the status quo that nothing is the same.
Theory 2: She is, or will be, through timey whimy shinnagens responsable for the Romulan Sun's super nova. if so this could put Picard in a bit of a "Baby Hitler" position. where he's confronted with someone whose basicly innocent, but at the same time, someone he is told will cause countless deaths, and screw up the life of pretty much the entire crew. (the only person in the crew who we don't know was screwed up as a result of the fallout over romulas was Rios and I'd be willing to bet we'll discover he was too)
