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2020/01/13 03:00:10
Subject: Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16
I just saw a commercial and it looks like it will be TV-MA. I dont want that. I want Star Trek that the whole family can watch. That offers a hope for the future. That can be a source of contemplation and thoughtfulness.
...but I guess without blood, guts, and f-bombs tv can't be taken seriously...
2020/01/13 03:39:03
Subject: Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16
Everything star trek (or what vaguely gets stamped with the brand) in the last decade or so. .
I think you may have a different interpretation of 'bombing' to everyone else. The only one of the movies that underperformed (and still didn't 'bomb') was Beyond (which is sad, as it was the best of the three), and Discovery is signed for a third season.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/13 04:07:22
0046/01/13 04:12:06
Subject: Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16
Voss wrote: Seems foolish. I see a pretty good chance of it bombing hard and then Stewart having to eat those words.
Watching him struggle to work his way through a short youtube ad on refugees makes it hard to believe they can hang one, let alone two, seasons of a show on his head.
Have you seen his recent interview for a Variety article? He's got a full on buffet already loaded up on his plate. Between this show specifically being a response to 2016/2017 politics to flat out saying that he had no desire to return to the world of TNG so it's dead, this interview pretty much removed the last bit of hope I had that this would be a return to something thematically and tonally closer to classic trek than STD was to TOS.
Everything star trek (or what vaguely gets stamped with the brand) in the last decade or so. .
I think you may have a different interpretation of 'bombing' to everyone else. The only one of the movies that underperformed (and still didn't 'bomb') was Beyond (which is sad, as it was the best of the three), and Discovery is signed for a third season.
Eh. I didn't mean those movies under-performed. I meant I don't see this show pulling off the constant run-run-run-always-on-action-shut-up-there's-no-time-for-rational-thought 'Star Trek' that those movies pulled to attract audiences and combining that with an elderly Stewart and with whatever random social commentary they're using to throw the Federation under a bus.
Just that this will bomb for trying to do all that at once. And for Stewart wanting to ditch the defining feature of Star Trek for some nihilistic society that he personally needs to fix in some insane fit of hubris.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/13 04:40:33
Efficiency is the highest virtue.
2020/01/13 04:40:13
Subject: Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16
Eh? Everything I've seen on Discovery has been that its a laughable joke.
Its just safe and protected behind a paywall where they can obscure numbers and ratings, and not have to worry about advertisers dumping the show like the cold piece of trash it is.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/13 04:42:12
Efficiency is the highest virtue.
2020/01/13 04:59:54
Subject: Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16
Voss wrote: Eh? Everything I've seen on Discovery has been that its a laughable joke.
Its just safe and protected behind a paywall where they can obscure numbers and ratings, and not have to worry about advertisers dumping the show like the cold piece of trash it is.
I think it's hard to ignore Discovery's divisive effect in the fandom. That has been fairly standard for new Star Trek series though. TNG had its detractors, and so did DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise and I feel like all those series were more well received and appreciated after their series finales.
Discovery could be the same. There are a lot of people who liked it, and season 1 was pretty good, if flawed. The later half of season 2 though came with a major downtrend though, and I think is hard to defend as anything but garbage unfitting of the Star Trek label. I think season 3 is going to be a hard sell, even for people who haven't already abandoned the show given its apparent premise. I think there was a major breach of faith though among the more hardcore fan base throughout Discovery, so opinion on the internet may be much more negative than the among the wider audience.
Everything star trek (or what vaguely gets stamped with the brand) in the last decade or so. .
I think you may have a different interpretation of 'bombing' to everyone else. The only one of the movies that underperformed (and still didn't 'bomb') was Beyond (which is sad, as it was the best of the three), and Discovery is signed for a third season.
The Star Trek movies Bayformered. They did fine in the box office, but most people don't remember them particularly fondly and the serious fans of the franchise loathe them. Star Trek Into Darkness is the TROS of the Star Trek universe, a self-parody. And Discovery is best known as a butt of mockery. "Now, that's the power of math!"
If Star Trek means so little that we're accepting TROS levels of quality, then the franchise is better off dead.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/13 05:41:22
The problem is that these current execs don't get the point. I've lost all interest in Picard having seen the latest trailer.
Star Trek isn't Star Wars. Why it continues to try and be Star Wars is beyond me, but the glory days of using words and well written scripts and characters to tell fantastic and hope filled stories is gone. It's been replaced by
Everything star trek (or what vaguely gets stamped with the brand) in the last decade or so. .
I think you may have a different interpretation of 'bombing' to everyone else. The only one of the movies that underperformed (and still didn't 'bomb') was Beyond (which is sad, as it was the best of the three), and Discovery is signed for a third season.
The Star Trek movies Bayformered. They did fine in the box office, but most people don't remember them particularly fondly and the serious fans of the franchise loathe them. Star Trek Into Darkness is the TROS of the Star Trek universe, a self-parody. And Discovery is best known as a butt of mockery. "Now, that's the power of math!"
If Star Trek means so little that we're accepting TROS levels of quality, then the franchise is better off dead.
This serious fan of the franchise enjoyed them just fine.
But the argument wasn't whether they were popular with hardcore fans, it was that they 'bombed'. They didn't. The fact that people resistant to change didn't like the different thing doesn't make their box office performance any smaller than it was.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Togusa wrote: The problem is that these current execs don't get the point. I've lost all interest in Picard having seen the latest trailer.
Star Trek isn't Star Wars. Why it continues to try and be Star Wars is beyond me, but the glory days of using words and well written scripts and characters to tell fantastic and hope filled stories is gone. It's been replaced by
Sci fi has always somewhat reflected the time it was birthed from. It's no coincidence that the majority of current day scifi is a bit more 'grah, everything sucks! Kill the thing!' than shows and movies from the 70s and 80s tended to be.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/13 06:45:52
2020/01/13 12:00:38
Subject: Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16
Everything star trek (or what vaguely gets stamped with the brand) in the last decade or so. .
I think you may have a different interpretation of 'bombing' to everyone else. The only one of the movies that underperformed (and still didn't 'bomb') was Beyond (which is sad, as it was the best of the three), and Discovery is signed for a third season.
The Star Trek movies Bayformered. They did fine in the box office, but most people don't remember them particularly fondly and the serious fans of the franchise loathe them. Star Trek Into Darkness is the TROS of the Star Trek universe, a self-parody. And Discovery is best known as a butt of mockery. "Now, that's the power of math!"
If Star Trek means so little that we're accepting TROS levels of quality, then the franchise is better off dead.
This serious fan of the franchise enjoyed them just fine.
This is an actual, genuine question from someone who is actually wondering how you arrived at your PoV, not an attack, or a snark, or anything else of that nature:
How does a "serious fan" of Star Trek enjoy a show like Discovery(or, alas, it seems, Picard), or a film like Into Darkness? I can understand the perspective of someone who just generally enjoys science fiction who happened to like previous Star Treks and also likes the modern incarnations, but has no particular attachment to that IP. I might have a different opinion on the quality, but there's no logical conflict there. But to be a fan of something is to care about it, to feel a level of attachment to the qualities that make it what it is, and by any measure other than branding I don't see how STD etc shares any qualities with Trek.
It's not fundamentally hopeful and optimistic. It's not thoughtful. It's not inspiring. It's not a vision of a better tomorrow that we can strive for. It doesn't have the same tone or narrative format. Even the aesthetic is similar in only the most superficial ways, despite ostensibly being set in an existing and known time period.
What is in there for a fan of Star Trek, specifically, to enjoy?
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
2020/01/13 12:15:15
Subject: Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16
The real answer is that a portion of serious fans are ok with the modern series and movies whereas another equally significant portion is not. As usual, the casual fans are firmly in the meh camp inbetween. Regardless, neither camp is a "vocal minority" in the sense that they are insignificant and can therefore be ignored. That isn't particularly meaningful for the people who like the current direction Trek is taking as they're already being catered to but it is important for those who don't.
I suspect that, like with Star Wars, the missing fans make the difference between an IP being simply profitable versus thriving. Ep IX isn't bombing at almost one billion dollars worldwide so far but the trend since Disney took over is certainly downward and this latest entry will make slightly more than half of what Disney's first entry did. Toy sales are down as well (another marker equally both of cultural relevance in the youngest generation AND interest in the hard core fans from the first couple of generations). I see many parallels with Star Trek though I can't say that with 100% certainty as we don't have the numbers for this franchise publicly available. YMMV.
We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
2020/01/13 12:58:35
Subject: Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16
Voss wrote: Eh? Everything I've seen on Discovery has been that its a laughable joke.
Its just safe and protected behind a paywall where they can obscure numbers and ratings, and not have to worry about advertisers dumping the show like the cold piece of trash it is.
I think it's hard to ignore Discovery's divisive effect in the fandom. That has been fairly standard for new Star Trek series though. TNG had its detractors, and so did DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise and I feel like all those series were more well received and appreciated after their series finales.
Discovery could be the same. There are a lot of people who liked it, and season 1 was pretty good, if flawed. The later half of season 2 though came with a major downtrend though, and I think is hard to defend as anything but garbage unfitting of the Star Trek label. I think season 3 is going to be a hard sell, even for people who haven't already abandoned the show given its apparent premise. I think there was a major breach of faith though among the more hardcore fan base throughout Discovery, so opinion on the internet may be much more negative than the among the wider audience.
I enjoyed the first season of Discovery as although it was becoming Burnham-Trek its only as Season 2 progressed that it became the full on total love fest for that character wherre everyone and everything revolved around her and no-one else - other than equally tiresome Tilly - were capable of tying their shoe laces without one of both of them telling them what to do. So much potential lost - I could not stomach finishing the season and won't be bothering with Season 3 - I'd watch a series about Pike and co or the Empress as long as Burnham and Tilly were not in it.
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
Back in October, Star Trek franchise boss Alex Kurtzman told us that he was working on a five-year plan for Trek projects, and during today’s Star Trek: Picard press tour today, he told us — just barely — about what we’ll be hearing about next as the Star Trek universe continues to expand.
Speaking to an assembled group of reporters (including TrekCore.com) during CBS All Access’ Star Trek: Picard press tour in Pasadena, CA this morning Kurtzman — along with Trek executive producing partner Heather Kadin — spoke about the state of the upcoming Section 31 series, their view on the ongoing Short Treks project, and more.
Star Trek: Picard is the second live-action series that this producer team has launched, after the somewhat calamitous start of Discovery which resulted in multiple showrunner changes, premiere delays, and other behind-the-scenes issues during first two years of its run.
We had the chance to ask Kurtzman what lessons his team took from the early days of Discovery which influenced the way they’ve approached getting Star Trek: Picard off the ground — and expanding into a second season of episodes.
ALEX KURTZMAN:
We’ve started working on Season 2 [of ‘Picard’], and we have a really excellent story, I think — and a very surprising one. But I think it’s really important for us to take it piece by piece. Part of this, too, is getting reactions from people.
Before we lock things, down it’s terribly important to listen to fans, and hear what they like — and what they didn’t respond to — or what wasn’t clear, and make sure we’re tacking accordingly. I learned when I started working in the ‘Star Trek’ world that that’s a really essential part of making these shows.
You have to listen carefully and understand that sometimes when people are complaining about things, they’re actually complaining about something else; there’s a different problem [below the surface] and you have to get to the root of that problem.
So I want to give a little room to learn from people’s reactions.
The obvious on-screen reaction response in Discovery‘s second year was the return of hair to the Klingon species, radically redesigned for the show when it was still under Bryan Fuller’s purview; hopefully nothing quite rises to that level when Star Trek: Picard debuts on January 23.
The conversation then made its way from Star Trek: Picard to the overall state of the Star Trek Universe, as the brand was titled at this year’s Comic Con events; Heather Kadin took the lead in giving an update on the Georgiou-centric Section 31 show.
HEATHER KADIN:
[‘Section 31’ is] in active development. So that’s obviously a huge priority; Michelle [Yeoh’s] character [Georgiou] is so unique, and you’ve never seen that before. Again, it has to fall under the guise of, ‘is this [show] a unique space we haven’t explored yet?”
And then also, the animated shows [‘Lower Decks’ and the untitled Nickelodeon project] are also really going to provide that too. For someone like me, who gets to work on these shows — and then two nights a week, go watch a cut of ‘Lower Decks’ — it’s a blast.
So I hope we continue to find those new avenues.
ALEX KURTZMAN:
There are two more live action shows that haven’t been announced yet.
While Kurtzman declined to expand on the focus of those two newly-revealed series — which are in addition to Discovery, Picard, and Section 31 — we’re sure that this single sentence will generate a tornado of speculation as to what may fill those slots.
We’ve known for nearly 18 months that the shows we know about aren’t the only ones which have been rumored; all the way back in June 2018 we first heard reports in the Hollywood trades that a Starfleet Academy-based series was under consideration as part of Kurtzman’s overall Trek franchise deal, which could certainly still be in the mix for one of these new shows.
In addition, Kurtzman and team have been clearly acknowledging the fan demand for a Captain Pike series — with Anson Mount reprising his role from Discovery in a show of his own — which also seems to be a likely candidate for the second slot.
Until CBS All Access makes any official announcements on the Star Trek franchise’s next move, however, it’s up to us — and to you — to discuss the possibilities these additional shows may bring for Trek as Kurtzman’s “five year” plan rolls ahead.
Regarding the just-wrapped second run of Star Trek: Short Treks, Kurtzman also noted that some of the new behind-the-scenes talent fostered in those short productions are continuing on with the franchise as well.
ALEX KURTZMAN:
I’ve loved the ‘Short Treks’ because they’re a really interesting testing ground both for different kinds of stories, and also different talent. Breaking new directors, new writers, younger writers, composers, and we’ve taken one of the composers and now put them on one of the series. So it’s very interesting and it’s been educational for us.
I love making them. I think there’s something so satisfying just from a pure creative point of view of figuring out how to tell a full story in ten to fifteen minutes or sometimes even less. I go back to the Pixar shorts — the shorts make you cry in two minutes. That’s a talent. That’s a real art to doing that.
They tell very emotional, very fulsome stories in such a short period of time, so it’s just another way of telling really interesting ‘Star Trek’ stories.
We also asked him about the status of international availability for viewers outside of the US and Canada — who have not been able to see any of the 2019-2020 Short Treks as of this writing, to which Kurtzman would only comment that he expects that they will make their way to Netflix “at some point.”
Hopefully this year’s slate of Short Treks will make their way overseas sometime soon, but for now we’ll have to keep waiting, along with all of the international fans who are in the same boat.
......
..hmmm .
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
2020/01/13 20:38:54
Subject: Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16
-- added bonus an ancestor of Neelix is in the show for comedic relief.
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
2020/01/13 21:26:08
Subject: Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2020/01/13 21:34:13
Subject: Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16
Insaniak, please forgive me if I am wrong, but didn’t you also enjoy the entire sequel trilogy and the prequels as well as JJ Trek? Are you also a fan of the older Star Trek shows?
I’m not seeing why a show that is written to appeal to more selective fanswhiny manbabies the currently disaffected fans couldn’t also appeal to fans who seem..uh...more positively disposed towards larger swathes of the entertainment product.
warboss wrote: I'd prefer Baby Morn personally. Think of the licensing potential with a bar and stool baby walker!
I enjoyed JJ Trek (except that second one), and I think Discovery is pretty garbage.
At worst, JJ Trek was a needless rehash of an era no one really wanted with capable actors who just couldn't machine the original's charisma and a plot that only worked by author's fiat.
Discovery plays out like some TNG fan's okayishly written fanfic produced by someone who wishes they were working on Battlestar Galactica and thinks a 1 hour TV episode about a young man being persecuted for his Romulan grandfather isn't cynical enough. And is also a needless rehash of an era no one really wanted. Did I mention the writing is god awful and I've seen fanfics that are better?
EDIT: Honestly, part of me thinks the only reason Discovery is set in the time period it is is because someone idiotically thought they could capitalize on the enthusiasm for Axanar, except they didn't bother with any of the things that made fans like Axanar.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/13 22:32:32
I would watch CBS online if they did a proper Axanar series...
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2020/01/13 22:43:11
Subject: Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16
Frazzled wrote: I would watch CBS online if they did a proper Axanar series...
They'd throw Section 31 into it for some reason, make the entire plot about super space secret agents with a super special ship and the main character would be some unbearable know it all who is constantly right even when pissing into the wind with barely a coherent thought... Oh right.
