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In terms of The Romulans and the fall out of the Dominion War?

First, don't forget they pretty much lost the Tal'Shiar during the ill fated attempt to take out the Shapeshifters.

And it wasn't long after that the Dominion War kicked off proper.

That leaves a power vacuum.

Then in Nemesis, the ruling council are assassinated. Further power vacuum, not long after the last one.

Who knows what sort of instability ensued?

So someone’s definitely getting assimilated in a future episode. You don’t get to have that long and detailed of a safety lecture and assurances from another dude how everything is super legit safe for it to not all go horribly wrong later.

So apparently the Romulans have their own version of section 31? kinda amusing.

Well, that was quite a bit of exposition, and not terribly clunky either.

Does feel like a ‘bridge’ episode. Follows up on the first, sets up the third, but doesn’t have a huge amount going on in itself. Which is fine, not every episode can be ‘and then this happens!’

Seems reviewers all saw up to episode three, and seem fairly consistent in considering them to make a single tale.

Roll on next Friday!

First episode is up on the official YouTube channel for free. If they follow what they did with STD season 2's premiere, it won't be on there for long (few days iirc).

Definitely worth the watch if you’ve not seen it yet. And indeed a further watch if you have!

apparent;y the video's not avaliable in canada. but we get it boradcast on TV so.. *shrugs*

Hmmmm.

Do we reckon we might get some kinda mention of the fallout of The Dominion War?

Much as I’m seriously enjoying Picard, I’ve been hankering for a follow up plot to the Federation’s darkest day.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Hmmmm.

Do we reckon we might get some kinda mention of the fallout of The Dominion War?

Much as I’m seriously enjoying Picard, I’ve been hankering for a follow up plot to the Federation’s darkest day.

I really hope so, it was a massive conflict and event that hit the whole Quadrant. It's possibly the biggest thing to ever hit Startrek in general. Even the Borg Cube was mostly handled just by the Federation and Klingons. The Dominion War hit everyone - Romulan, Cardassian, Ferangi, Starfleet and numerous other smaller races. It really should feature at some point in some references. Heck it would be great to head to Cardassia and see the rebuilding going on that they've gone through after their homeworld was torn apart at the end of the War.

Not to mention there's still the link to the other Quadrant active through the Wormhole and Changlings are still a thing. Now there's a powerful ally if you're a covert-ops group!

It might also help explain a breakdown in Federation and Romulan relations.

Imagine if Sisko’s fakery was eventually detected?

The sheer pragmatism can be seen. All stand together, or all fall in turn. But one imagines the Romulans wouldn’t take especially kindly to being tricked?

Well, plenty more episode (18, given Season 2 is in the works) to work that in

Because if they don’t, it’s going right up there on my Nerd Grudge Totem alongside Ace not getting a bow out from Doctor Who.

(Also.......mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm......Sophie Aldred.....)

You never know. They might gain respect for the Federation for behaving in such a Romulan manner...

That’s......a very good point!

Though from my limited understanding (which the second episode might support....) it could be a sign of weakness, because The Mighty Moral Federation ( yeah, you just sang that in your head....) is actually surprising morally flexible, which gives a previously unrecognised ‘in’, where you can corrupt them further?

Not that I’m calling Sisko corrupt, at all. He did the right thing for the right reasons, and in the only way open at the time of the crime.

So, yeah... I watched the premiere. It's better than the premiere of DISCO but that's hardly a high hurdle to jump over; at least it's not actively attempting to insult a large part of its core audience. Copious rushed exposition instead of real world building (or updating in this case), unearned emotional intimacy between characters who just met, only slightly better than fan film quality effects at times despite a much bigger budget alongside headscratching questionable choices executed competently, and nonsensical action that disintegrates any reasonable suspension of disbelief in how and why it is happening. As a lifelong trekkie, even my powerful nostalgia shields can't deflect those glaring problems. This episode feels like they've crammed what should have been at least a traditional opening two parter into 45 minutes (or around 38 minutes minus the credits and season teaser). It's free for some now so I recommend that folks watch it to form their own opinion though.

Watched an ep and a half so far. It’s terribly dull tbh. And I did a groan at the rogue android’s name... puntastic. Better than Discovery but it’s not good, and F-bombs in Trek just sound weiiiirrrrd. P-Stew is a tad over-acting in this too, which is most unlike him. I do hope this improves dramatically...

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Watched an ep and a half so far. It’s terribly dull tbh. And I did a groan at the rogue android’s name... puntastic. Better than Discovery but it’s not good, and F-bombs in Trek just sound weiiiirrrrd. P-Stew is a tad over-acting in this too, which is most unlike him.

Long Live Duke Leto!
https://imgur.com/lSaOP9E

Stewart overacting... not unprecedented.

Voss wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Watched an ep and a half so far. It’s terribly dull tbh. And I did a groan at the rogue android’s name... puntastic. Better than Discovery but it’s not good, and F-bombs in Trek just sound weiiiirrrrd. P-Stew is a tad over-acting in this too, which is most unlike him.

Long Live Duke Leto!
https://imgur.com/lSaOP9E

Stewart overacting... not unprecedented.

Haha yes he was very stage-shouty in that!

Does feel like a ‘bridge’ episode. Follows up on the first, sets up the third, but doesn’t have a huge amount going on in itself.

Agreed with that. I felt however it did throw quite a lot at you to absorb - could have laid it out a bit better.

It did feel like a bridge indeed, especially with the way it ended. That said it was a bridge was very happily crossing and the only annoyance is that I've got to wait a whole week to find out what's on the other side!


I thought it was full of several really great and important moments. We start to see a covert system within Starfleet with corruption to explain how they can start to cover up an explosion. We see Picard walk bold into Starfleet only to get slapped hard by the fact that he had resigned and whilst he was an Admiral he's no longer an Admiral (he's a visitor!). He can't even command the respect to get a small warp capable ship. He can be refused and there's no political nor legal or any channels he can take which can get them to give him a ship.

Yes he can cause a stir giving a public interview, but he doesn't actually have any real power left within starfleet. The world has moved on since he went into hiding in his vineyard all those years ago.


I also really liked that they got out of him his reasons for not contacting Riker and the others. For going to those who are his allies within the Federation who would most likely follow him. Indeed I think its a great thing to show as it highlights him as Picard and not Kirk the second. Kirk would (and did) steal starships and basically mutiny from the Federation toward his own goals. Picard is capable of such actions, but he'd have to be REALLY pushed hard to be forced to take such action. I think considering that Riker and Worf are (at the very least) likely commanding their own starships, Picard could cause a lot of trouble if he went down that path - and I get the feeling that he still loves Starfleet and doesn't want to take that pathway.

 Compel wrote:
I'm just going to chip in and say, yes, indeed, the Enterprise-D is an ugly, ugly ship.

It's just so... Unbalanced and... ARGH!

The Enterprise-E is a LOT nicer. And probably my favourite Trek ship design.

As for the Picard show, I'm just going to say, I too am disheartened by the idea of cynicising the Federation into a corrupt Government.

The slightlay Art Deco look of the movie ships in the 80s are my favourite, although the Excelsior is a little ungainly. Might be because those were my introduction to Star Trek (I think the first one I saw was The Search for Spock). As for making the Federation government less utopian, well, you’ve got that TNG episode where Star Fleet command was all possessed by worms, and obviously The Undiscovered Country and Insurrection, not to mention a fair bit of Deep Space 9 already going in that direction.

So far I’ve enjoyed the first two episodes of Picard, although they’ve been rather slow-paced. Apparently the first three episodes are the “pilot” so hopefully it’ll start picking up after that.

One subtle point (which connects back to the portrayal of the Federation government, in a way); even in the utopian, post-scarcity paradise of 23rd/24th century Earth, Boston and Paris still have the night split by police sirens. Is that just accepted as normal urban night sound now, without considering the implications?

Federation has always had some corruption - its politics. It's just that in Original series and TNG we didn't see as much of it because those ships (esp Original series) were far out on the edges of the Federation and operating sort of on their own for the most part. However when conflict did arise there was often contention between the captains in the field and the Starfleet HQ.


DS9 we saw a lot more not just of corruption, but of different political groups and agendas within the Federaiton and its member races.

Voyager we went back to a ship on the VERY far edges and heck for a big part of the early series we didn't even have any communication with Starfleet. So we "lost" the political angle on the main body of Starfleet.


That said in the TNG films, esp that one Between First Contact and Nemesis (ergo the one everyone forgets because it was mostly like an extended episode).

This new Picard series is just focusing the viewers eye on something that's been in the lore for years and years in Startrek. Just not overtly shown all the time

I don’t think this is how the new show will go, but there’s room for a discussion on the difference between the Federation citizens in the core worlds - Earth, Vulcan, Andor, arc - and those on Starfleet vessels and colonies on the outer edges of the territory. Starfleet would make a good release valve for all those people likeKirk, Spock, Picard and Sisko who can’t just settle down in paradise and stop fiddling with things.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
I don’t think this is how the new show will go, but there’s room for a discussion on the difference between the Federation citizens in the core worlds - Earth, Vulcan, Andor, arc - and those on Starfleet vessels and colonies on the outer edges of the territory. Starfleet would make a good release valve for all those people likeKirk, Spock, Picard and Sisko who can’t just settle down in paradise and stop fiddling with things.

Sounds like Contact and Special Circumstances in the Culture

Seen first two now:

- I quite like the pacing, it does not feel rushed (maybe thats because I am getting old),
- the Bladerunneresque story seems ok, but thinking its goign to turn out time travel related with the secret-secret service trying to prevent the Borg or similar (god forbid its something to do with the Discovery story in S2 or we get fething Burnham in it at some point).
-The Romulan characters seem...odd, they have very human /European acents......and behave exactly like humans......odd.
- It looks good but still like Trek - no redesigning the entire race/ships for no fething reason.

Seems to be two kinds of Romulans as well.

One more Vulcan, with just pointy ears and angular eyebrows. The other with the distinctive Romulan head ridges.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Seems to be two kinds of Romulans as well.

One more Vulcan, with just pointy ears and angular eyebrows. The other with the distinctive Romulan head ridges.

yeah true - its all a bit odd - assume we will get more back story - same with Picards (Tal-Shiar?) friends at his vineyard

I think that the

In the past vulcans and romulans have had surgery to look like the other side. Spock was even altered to look Vulcan to infiltrate during one of the TNG episodes.

I see Frakes is directing the next two(?) episodes. Interesting to see how he does as I liked most of his TNG ones especially cause and effect (we wont mention sub rosa ).

So, I saw the first episode with my wife—thanks for the link, Warboss—and I’m not feeling it. My wife wants to know what happens next, so we’ll probably binge it at some point.

I don’t hate it, but I also don’t trust the gritty mystery box approach that the first episode takes. The quality of the show will be retroactively impacted by later reveals, such as etc.

Not many parts of the episode stand on their own. Stewart’s acting is great, but undermined by the uncharacteristic corruption in Starfleet/the Federation, deliberately obfuscated backstory, and the camera work/editing. The production value is there. The story takes some time to breathe between action or plot beats, although I’ll come back to that. The setting seems fairly consistent with TNG if nBSG writers got a decade to work it over real ugly. At least they did some research.

Now, I admit this is probably me being an old grumpus but I found the camera work and editing distracting. Prime example: the establishing shot of Picard’s vineyard was not a shot but a montage with no stillness but also nothing actually happening. It distracted me more than it gave me a feeling for Picard’s personal setting. Every seen with Stewart acting was edited into uncomfortable closeups and then camera-crawling reaction shots, distracting from the man himself. It felt like the camera was always, always moving, a technique modern film makers overuse because they lack confidence that the content of the scene alone will hold the audience’s attention. It made me feel detached from the drama instead of engaged.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I wrote scene and autocorrect changed it to seen, and probably messed up other words. Frustrating.

I think its going to turn out that Burnum and the Romulans created the Borg. there I said it!

 Frazzled wrote:
I think its going to turn out that Burnum and the Romulans created the Borg. there I said it!

Darn it stop reading my mind!

 Frazzled wrote:
I think its going to turn out that Burnum and the Romulans created the Borg. there I said it!

Burnham created the Universe more like

but yeah that seems to be the direction of travel