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The Ork codex is fairly well regarded, and I don't think the changes they require are huge - but they are important:
- Ranged Anti-Tank sorely lacking.
- Some units require adjustment (Major: Weirdboyz, Tankbustas, Flashgitz. Minor changes: Zzap Gunz, Deffkoptas, Burnaboyz, Warbikers?)

I'm going to start off with some changs that I feel are the least un-controversial (please note that these are just my ideas, feel free to provide your own):

Tankbustas
Because of their glory hog rule (must attempt to shoot at the nearest vehicle within LoS... even if the nearest vehicle is CLEARLY out of range), these guys are really hard to actually get anywhere. With no transportation of their own, and unable to run, they pretty much have to bogard some other squads ride, which isn't an ideal situation. So, I propose the following rewrite:

- Glory Hogs: If the unit wishes to fire at a non-vehicle, it must take a leadership test. If the test is failed, the unit may not shoot that turn (not sure if they should still be allowed to run or not).
- Transport: Mobs of 12 or fewer models may take a Trukk as a dedicated transport.
- Tank hunters USR

May need a point adjustment, but I'll leave that up to others to determine.

Burnaboyz
- Transport: Mobs of 12 or fewer models may take a Trukk as a dedicated transport.

Deffkoptas
Their main problem, as far as I can tell (mostly from seeing people talk about them) is their leadership. At LD7, with a maximum squad size of 5, and no bosspole.. they are going to run. They are already fairly costly at their base cost (35 pts), and when weapons are added in they start getting expensive real fast.

In addition, the fluff already talks about how anyone willing to pilot a Deffkopta has to be more than a little insane. With that in mind, I propose:
- Fearless
- Buzzaw from 25 to 15 pts (paying 25 pts for a S6(7) PK is weird. There is some precedent set for this with the 15 pt tankbusta PK)
- Bigbomm - not sure what needs to be changed, but probably something since I never see anyone take it? Seems a wee bit useless in todays mech environment, but meh.

Battlewagons
I think this qualifies as a "given", but correct me if I'm wrong:
- Deffrollas: May be used to Ram, generating D6 S10 hits just as when tankshocking.

Moving on to some units I'm less certain about:

Zzap Guns
Seems to be just a little too random to be useful as anti-tank? I've not had a really great idea about how to fix these while still keeping their "identity", yet.
- S2+D6 and 2D6 pen?
- Straight up melta? (presumably you would keep the 2D6 S)
- Allow ammo-runts to re-roll the Strength roll (just like the roll to hit)? Alternatively, allow a re-roll at the expense of 1 wound being assigned to the crew (which means 1 dead grot).
I don't know if these would actually be too strong or not..

Warbikers
I'm not as sure about how to fix these - I know they are almost universally reviled tho. I think the problem is once again LD, which could be solved in the same way as with the deffkoptas? But I'll wait for more input on these. So, a couple of suggestions I have seen:
- Fearless?
- Cheaper?

Weirdboyz
I love the weirdboy, from a fluff perspective, but it seems just about impossible to justify using up your HQs on them.. From a fluff standpoint, Ork psychic powers get stronger the more Orks they are surrounded by, so taking this and combining it with an idea I saw posted by Orkeosaurus (Weirdboyz as a squad upgrade):
- The Green Collective (eh, just needed a name): Weirdboyz draw their power from the collective psychic power of the Orkish race. If a Weirdboy is attached to a squad of 10 or more boyz, he may roll a second dice on his Psychic Power table. For every 10 Orks in the mob beyond the first 10, an additional dice may be rolled.
Ex. If a Weirdboy is in a 30 strong Ork Boyz mob, 3 extra dice may be rolled. This ability does not apply to Gretchin.

Whether this should allow him to use more than 1 spell, or if he can just pick and choose which of the 3 he wants to cast.. is another story. It would make for an interesting russian roulette type dynamic if he could cast more and more spells "Hmm, do I roll 3 dice and risk him frying my unit...".
The Warphead re-roll I suppose would still function the same way, allowing you to re-roll one dice?

Okay, non-controversial changes are covered, some semi-experimental changes are done as well.. Now for some potentially "out there" changes..

Flash Gitz
One of my - and many with me I'm sure - favorite units fluffwise, but sadly completely and utterly overpriced for what they do (which.. isn't much).
One of the first problems when fixing them is that you can't really give them long range, high strength weaponry without making them into Nob stat Lootas.. which is kinda pointless.
To quote Nurglitch:

Nurglitch wrote:Actually, there's plenty of people that find Weirdboyz and Flashgitz to be useful. I think they're best in combination, with a Warphead accompanying a unit of Flashgitz. You have to think of them as uber-Shootas, despite also having the close combat abilities of Nobz.

Ok, Flash Gitz = Uber-Shootas, that's good. They are also, fluffwise, supposed to be filthy rich mercenaries - so what I would propose is a highly customizable squad of "souped up shootas".
The ideas below are just what I've come up with, I don't neccessarily mean for ALL of these to be implemented together.

First the basics:
- Snazzguns - Assault 2
- Transport: May take a Battlewagon as a dedicated transport. (Not that weird, Retributors are HS in WH armies and can still take HS Immolators as transports)
- Painboy
- Mek (more on this later)

Some more experimental ideas:
- Red button: If a Mek is taken, he may "augment" the Gitz Snazzguns with a shiny red button. The red button makes Snazzguns Assault 4 for the turn they are fired. Unfortunately, this also causes them to frequently overheat - the weapon has the Gets Hot! rule. In addition, the temptation to press the red button is extremely high. If you wish to fire your weapon normally, you must take and pass a LD test.

- Gitfindas: If a mek (or maybe painboy since it's bionics?) is taken, the unit may be equipped with Gitfindas. Their weapons are now twinlinked. In addition, they may fire from a vehicle even if it moved above 6" - however, in this case the weapons do not count as twinlinked, and they require 6s to hit.

- Battlewagon upgrades: No self-respecting Git would be caught dead in a non-modified battlewagon if it can be helped. If a Battlewagon is taken as a dedicated transport, they may upgrade it with one of the following:
* Souped up Engines: Battlewagon now counts as a fast vehicle.
* Mini-Forcefield: Vehicle counts as obscured (may be too strong, which can be remedied by making the save 5+ or giving it a limited charge - ie can only be used X times).

- Tellyporta: May enter battle via deepstrike.
- Kombi-upgrades: Up to 1 Git per 5 members of the mob may upgrade their snazzgun to either a:
* Kombi-Lance - Looted Eldar Brightlance, now with louder boom.. And sadly not quite the same range. S8, 12" Assault 1, Lance
* Kombi-Skorcha/fusion/rokkit/etc
.. Eh, you get the point, the exact weapons they can kombi are to be determined, but I think the idea fits them well.

Note: I want to stress that I don't mean for them to have ALL of the above, I'm just throwing out ideas.

So, have at it, tell me which ideas are completely out there and which are fine, and provide some of your own.

The Flash Gitz fixes are awesome.

I think all of those fixes would work, but i almost fell on floor when i read the Red Button rule. That was so funny, but also very handy rule, while not making them uber.

Some cool ideas here, and they would make Flashgits at least fun and random, as opposed to their current suckage.

Telling your opponent that you have a squad of guys with assault 4 potentially AP1-2 weapons that can fire out of vehicles moving at cruising speed would terrify them. Until the game started, and they saw how much they actually miss and don't do anything. =p

Hehe I'm glad the Flash git changes went over well - I always felt like GW really dropped the ball with them, making them not only craptastic from a competitive standpoint, but also by failing to make them at least an interesting choice (ex. Shokk Attack Gun - that'd be interesting no matter what the status of its compeitiveness was).

Do Stormboyz need a change btw? They don't seem to share the kind of universal rejection that, for instance, warbikers do, but they aren't exactly commonplace in serious lists either. Make em cheaper?

Kommandos - not sure, but maybe let them take tankbusta bombs or some kind of IG style demo-charge?

Red Button was the icing. Truly inspired rules writing there.

number9dream wrote:
* Mini-Forcefield: Vehicle counts as obscured (may be too strong, which can be remedied by making the save 5+ or giving it a limited charge - ie can only be used X times).

In the old Kult of Speed codex, there was a force field upgrade like this.

It caused the battlewagon to count as closed topped for damage results, but opened-topped for the purposes of shooting and disembarking.

2 things, First about the Flash git part, I really like the ideas. They USED to be a shoota squad that you could do a slew of upgrades to (like their tinkers) and they were alot of fun. Your proposed ideas definitely go back to that.

However, secondly I don't really agree about what you said with the weirdboys. They already benifit from having a large squad for auto-passing the psychic tests, and what your proposing is WAY powerful. The only part I like is that maybe they shouldn't be HQ, but an upgrade to a squad.

Flash Gitz are supposed to be rich freebooting Nobz.

The fact that they have to basically all be exactly the same is disappointing.

I agree, they should have a whole range of options, "upgrades," and kustomizations.

Deff koptas need a nob with a bosspole option. As it stands I only ever see units of one model get taken in actual play if I ever see someone take deff koptas at all. They are just too expensive to risk them running so quickly. I like the idea of fearless. People would actually take them and they would distinguish themselves as a good alternative to a biker squad, or wartrak/warbuggy.

kaun666 wrote:2 things, First about the Flash git part, I really like the ideas. They USED to be a shoota squad that you could do a slew of upgrades to (like their tinkers) and they were alot of fun. Your proposed ideas definitely go back to that.

However, secondly I don't really agree about what you said with the weirdboys. They already benifit from having a large squad for auto-passing the psychic tests, and what your proposing is WAY powerful. The only part I like is that maybe they shouldn't be HQ, but an upgrade to a squad.

Well, what do you think about them becoming stronger the more of them are in a squad? They don't neccessarily have to add one dice for every 10 - maybe allow them to modify their roll by +1 or -1? Maybe allow them to roll 2 dice and pick the one they like?

Or do you think they are fine the way they are in terms of rolling for spells? It seems a little too random to be useful (mostly I'm just sad I never see anyone use them hehe :[).

Anyway, I haven't really abandoned these threads, I've just been - and will be for the next week - pretty busy >.<

They don't quite auto-pass psychic test, the Ld is 10...can still fail/get Perils easily enough. Especially if playing Nids or Eldar.

Perhaps variable power strength dependant on nearby Orks, like in 2nd...