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To view the previous battle report in this series, click here. To view the next game in this series, click here. To view other battle reports in this series, click here. To view the tactical overview of this game, click here.

Sanario smiled, his moustache twitching with vindication.

A dozen miles away from the town that he and Melchoir had cleared, the small shrine of St. Corvinus loomed above the plain on a low bluff. Sanario had lobbied hard for this local holy site to be the first offensive in their breakout. Yes, the shrine would give a commanding view, and would be of strategic value, but that wasn't important to a man of the cloth like Sanario.

It was a new day for Folera, and a new army being led into war. Over the preceding years, the Ordo Beltisteria (of which Sanario was a member), backed by the Ecclesiarchy had wrested control of the planet from the hands of the greedy commissars and Munitorum bureaucrats. Folera was once again in direct control of the God-Emperor and of the king, his divinely appointed servant. Flush with victory, Folera had started to become a holy place again. Pure, and brimming with life, everything now seemed fresh and nubile.

Now, people were taught that tradition must be preserved and saints honored. In the past, the mission to the shrine would have been nit-picked by black-clad philistines, looking for any excuse not to honor the Emperor and his heritage. Of course, he still had to deal with Melchoir, who was crudely thoughtful and with near heresy levels of patience and tactical acumen. Thankfully, the officer was a man of the God, inwardly, if not always as conspicuously outwardly as Sanario would have liked.

The priest had demanded to be at the forefront of retaking the shrine, and Melchoir had agreed to personally oversee this mission of utmost spiritual value. Their small detachment had leisurely approached the shrine with a few artillery pieces in tow. The officer wanted to fortify the position as soon as it was taken. As they approached the bluff, however, Sanario started to feel somewhat strange.

The sky began to dim somewhat, despite lack of excessive clouds. As he started up the hillside, the ground beneath his feet felt like it was quavering. Like walking on gelatin, or like as if the hill were in a fit of trembling before vomiting him off the bluff. As the Foleran forces crested the hill and approached the shrine, the world seemed to go grey, somehow. As if all of the color saturation was leaving the world.

Suddenly, Sanario felt his stomach fall out from under him. The officer's micro-vox began to crackle. It was the enemy! Someone was attempting to take the blessed shrine at the same time. With his usual clarity and cunning, Melchoir ordered his troops to prepare for attack.



From out of thin air, the heavens opened, and a drop pod came hurtling towards the earth. It screamed across the sky and landed directly in front of the shrine. Its retro-rockets exploded, burning the face of the stone and sending nearby guardsmen scrambling for cover.

As the dust settled, the drop pod's deadly cargo disgorged.

Sanario stared in disbelief. It was blood angels.



What were these holy scions of Terra doing? Why were they preventing an ordained priest from cleansing a shrine?

Suddenly, a piercing whine began to ring through Sanario's head, and he started to feel dizzy. An incredible reluctance washed over him. Somehow, he began to feel that he was supposed to let the blood angels pass, but he had no idea why.

As he struggled with these overpowering emotions, the artillery behind the priest fired up and began to turn. With steady and deadly purpose, they swung around and took aim... directly at the guardsmen in front of the blood angels. The air roared in a deafening explosion as all three guns blasted into the ranks of their comrades, leaving a mass of flaming craters glistened by a great slick smear of blood. A few body parts had chunked and flown into the drop pod and onto the space marines, bouncing helplessly off, and rolling down the hillside.

Sanario looked around as if in a dream. He could see the other guardsmen standing around, looking dazed or confused. Everything just seemed to stop as everyone began to shut down and just stand still.

Apparently, the only ones unaffected by this psychic malaise were the ogryn, who cheerfully bounded forwards.



He could faintly hear the sounds of "Thug! Thug! Thug! Thug!" swimming through his ears as the brutes lumbered off towards the church, a few firing their weapons into the air for reasons unfathomable to the priest.

Sanario looked back towards the shrine. More space marines were hemorrhaging out of the gap. It was as if the drop pod had stabbed the shrine and it was now spurting red power armor out of the wound.



The space marines began to attack with hideous effectiveness. The nearby guardsmen just sort of stood still as if in a trance, letting themselves get run over. It was less of a brutal massacre, and more of the space marines just pushing the guardsmen to the ground and treading them underfoot as they raced forward in manic deprivation.

The brown-armored guardsmen didn't even seem to flinch as their own artillery continued to fire at them from behind at point-blank range.

Sanario looked at Melchoir. The officer looked pale, as if a strong breeze would just knock him over. He stared back at the priest blinking incomprehensively, arms laying limp by his side. His mouth opened and then closed, but no sound came out.

The blood angels continued to charge.



The forces that were attacking from the shrine collided with the guard forces. A sanguiniary priest flew forward and landed in front of a hapless sergeant. The sergeant looked blankly at the marine. The two simply stared at each other for a moment.



The sergeant dropped his pistol, and stuck out his arm as if to try and shake hands with the space marine. The enemy priest slammed his shoulder into the guardsman's face, the massive pauldron laying the guardsman flat and bleeding on the ground.

Meanwhile, a nearby officer ordered his troops to counterattack, bringing their flame throwers up to bear against the marines. He slowed to a stop, caught in mid-pointing-gesture. The music in his mind pitched and rolled him, as if he were gently getting tossed on the waves at sea. The flamer operators stood dumbfounded, not able to remember how to make their weapons work, or why they were even carrying them in the first place.



"Umm..." was all that escaped the officer's mouth as he continued to point at the space marines. The world swam around him, only to go dark as a marine appeared from out of nowhere right in front of him and hit him in the face with the back of a bolt pistol.



The uncontested blood angel advance raced towards Sanario.



The priest desperately struggled to regain control of his own mind as an eldrich fire slowly dismantled his nervous system. The priest picked up his eviscerator and turned it on. He lifted it high above his head and prepared to charge. He shouted to his comrades through a thick fog, exhorting them to advance in the name of the king and of their God-Emperor. He began to charge in.

Except he didn't actually do any of that. It was just shadows and dreams in his mind. In reality, the priest dropped his eviscerator, and began to sway back and forth slightly and unsteadily. He couldn't hurt the blood angels. He shouldn't hurt them. No way. This was the time to be a good and gracious servant to the Emperor in all things.

He must await his destiny. Everything would be made clear to him. If he could just hold on...



If he could just hold on...



If he could just...

hold...



...


***

The space marine drop pod had alerted battle command, and a unit of Kingsguard had been sent in to assess the situation. From space, it appeared to be a fight over a small group of buildings on a hill. The storm troopers were to drop in and help hold the perimeter as the guard forces on the ground counterattacked.

The swift decent into the atmosphere bucked and rattled the valkyrie as the atmosphere below buffeted the aircraft in its plummet. The men inside sat still, preparing for the fight ahead. Each of them was fresh from months of the most intense training that a human being could be forced to withstand. Best training. Best equipment. These were the true hammer of the Emperor.

A red light went on in the cabin, flickering as the valkyrie slammed into heavy turbulence. The shock sent most of the stormtroopers up onto their feet, where they stayed, as if meaning to do just that. Quickly and silently, they lined up and hooked into their repelling rigs.

With no warning whatsoever, the vehicle made a sudden hairpin turn, sliding open the rear hatch of the vehicle. With well-practiced speed, the soldiers flew out of their transport, repelling lines catching only at the last moment to prevent the guardsmen from slamming into the ground. The whole process took no more than 5 seconds. The stormtroopers ducked as the engine wash of the valkyrie nearly blew them over as it made its escape back into orbit.



The storm troopers looked forward and could barely make out a few snipers up in a ruin on the perimeter of the shrine. With practiced grace, the soldiers bathed the ruins in liquid flame, and unloaded with their hellguns.

The Kingsguard sergeant took stock of his environment. He couldn't see the guard force he was supposed to meet up with anywhere. Unfazed, he continued on. He knew his mission, and he knew how to accomplish it.

The storm troopers quickly began to advance on the ruins when suddenly they were struck mindless. What were they here for again? Nobody could seem to remember as a rolling thunder began to take over their minds, splitting reality wherever they were able to still think clearly. Reality itself seemed to crumble around them.

The sergeant was barely able to croak a single word over the long-wave vox set in his helmet.

"Eldar!"




***

Sanario awoke with a start. He was shivering violently against the night's deep chill. Trembling, he tried to sit up. He had woken up face down in a ditch, his eviscerator and random bits of his armor strewn about the dried weeds lightly dancing in the frigid breeze. He stumbled as he tried to collect this things in the dim starlight. What he wished he could collect most were his wits.

Apart from being chilled to the bone, the priest appeared fine and healthy now. He had no idea where he was, or how he had gotten there, or what had happened in the past presumably several hours. All he knew for sure was that it was dark, and he was alone.

Collecting his gear as best he could, the priest started down the ditch that he found himself in, groping against the dark and leaning heavily into the cold. After about a half an hour, he came to a road. It didn't take long to get his bearings. This was the road that had led to the shrine. He wasn't very far away from the base camp back in town.

Sanario warily started down the road. He had to get in from the cold. Night would have to be his cover now, if there was even anyone following him. He couldn't be sure.

As he went, his brain desperately tried to untangle what had just happened to it. It all felt so much like a dream. It was like he was walking through a different reality of which he wasn't, strictly speaking, a part. In his dreams, he had hazy recollections, maddening glimpses into thoughts and secret knowledge that he was never meant to know.

Then it struck him. There was something that had happened that had awakened him. A voice, yes, that's what it was. A single peal of language in his mind.

"Thank you," it had said with timeless unknowability and ethereal grace, "You have served me well."

The priest shivered as much from the cold as from the mist of dreams echoing through his mind. The grasses shimmered lightly in the starlight. The faint glow of the town ahead of him wavered in the cold night breeze.

He could only hope he wasn't the only survivor...

This is really good, I enjoy reading them.

To bad your army didn't do anything but kill your own men.

An enjoyable read.

Read the tactical overview... ouch! The silver lining is that for every game where your dice let you down like that, you'll have another game where you can do no wrong.

I still don't agree with leaving out the Commissars entirely - especially when you have that many bodies on the field. Sure, some games they'll get sniped out of the blob, but there are ways you can minimise the damage - it just takes a bit more thought... and decent terrain coverage.

Anyway, can't wait for the next one!

Reading about the adventures of the brown armored foleran guardsmen always brings a smile to my face

In the end 40k is a game of chance like you mentioned, you win some, you lose some.

I'm curious about why you were firing ordnance danger close rather than at more distant targets and relying on plasma, melta, ogryns, and ranked lasguns to deal with the drop pod contents.

Still a great read, though.

infinityandbeyond wrote:Read the tactical overview... ouch! The silver lining is that for every game where your dice let you down like that, you'll have another game where you can do no wrong.

Hah! I wish!

infinityandbeyond wrote:I still don't agree with leaving out the Commissars entirely - especially when you have that many bodies on the field. Sure, some games they'll get sniped out of the blob, but there are ways you can minimise the damage - it just takes a bit more thought... and decent terrain coverage.

So, I AM, actually, keeping one eye open for this. In this case, of course, it seriously wouldn't have mattered. Of the 41 models I had on my right at the beginning, by the time he charged, I only had about 21 left after both of our shooting phases. 20 guardsmen aren't going to beat 22 furiously charging blood angel assault marines, commissars or no, and I doubt they would have even survived the charge.

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:I'm curious about why you were firing ordnance danger close rather than at more distant targets and relying on plasma, melta, ogryns, and ranked lasguns to deal with the drop pod contents.

My opponent properly displaced his jump pack marines at the top of turn 1. A direct hit by a medusa would have only hit one model, and a direct hit with the colossus would have only hit 3.

Meanwhile, his drop pod troops were clustered in nearly close order. A hit by the colossus would have hit 10 out of the 11 of them. Even a medusa hit would have done some pretty serious damage (like 7 of them). The survivors could have easily been finished off with lasguns. Had this happened, my opponent would have lost half of his serious infantry at the bottom of turn 1. If I had managed to score a hit on ANY of my scatter die before the bottom of turn 4, I would have been able to nail his tightly-clustered post-assault marines when they were in my deployment zone, and would have thus finished them off with lasguns. Then it would have basically been mephiston and a squad of warp spiders against most of my army. All it would have required was two hits on scatter die. As they failed to materialize, the battle went the exact opposite way. Really, it was just a couple of die rolls that determined it here.

As for using short-ranged weapons, that's the part I was talking about with guard not being a force concentration army. My opponent landed on the far side of my flank. Only half of my army would have even been in range. Add to that the fact that my opponent was very good in his drop pod placement, and a fair amount of my stuff couldn't even see, much less was in range. This is basically a problem that foot guard have, unfortunately, and I don't really know much how to avoid it.

To be fair, though, I DID focus all of my firepower onto his stuff in the manner you talked about on the bottom of turn 3. The main problem here, though, was that I had already taken very substantial casualties in the preceding turn. 2 squads of FRFing, 3 artillery pieces 2 heavy weapons squads, a perfectly-oriented 3x flammer battery (like 17 hits or something), and an attempted power fist charge only managed to kill 2 guardsmen and 3 assault marines.

In this case, once again, it was the strategy that was good, and it was the dice that were bad.

I am a bit confused about how that drop pod ended up on your side of the table on turn 1. Is it some special rule for drop pods that allows them to come in from reserves on turn 1? I've never played against drop pods (only the Tyranid version) so I have no idea, but would like to know how they work.

Ah, drop pod assault, found the special rule.

Those few misses with the artillery were pretty much the game. If they hit the beating you took would probably have been reversed. Some mobile plasma could have certainly helped too to deal with the deep strikers. Although with how you rolled in this game I'm sure that they would have just burned themselves without doing any damage.

Yeah, it's called "drop pod assault". It's a special rule that they get. Basically, it makes it so that half of the drop pods (rounded up) MUST show up turn 1, while the rest deploy as normal.

Half (rounding up) of a Space Marine army's drop pods arrive on Turn 1, with the rest in normal Reserves.

As for the bombarding assault marines, I hadn't noticed the Bastion Breachers. With the changes to ordnance blasts, they're a downgrade in almost every way, whereas previously they were a sidegrade against vehicles and a downgrade against non-vehicles. As for what to do about your army getting in its own way, that's the problem platoon IG will face and I certainly don't have an answer yet.

As always, a great and interesting read.

I've always enjoyed your thoughts on luck vs. skill in games of 40k. I agree with you here, as you rightfully pointed out, a few hits on those scatter dice would have really changed the outcome of this game.

How did you find your opponent's psychic powers?

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:As for the bombarding assault marines, I hadn't noticed the Bastion Breachers. With the changes to ordnance blasts, they're a downgrade in almost every way, whereas previously they were a sidegrade against vehicles and a downgrade against non-vehicles. As for what to do about your army getting in its own way, that's the problem platoon IG will face and I certainly don't have an answer yet.

So, without bastion breachers, a medusa is basically just a single, ludicrously expensive lascannon. I suppose it is ordnance as well, but really.

With the bastion breachers, it always does damage to nearly everything, and nearly always does damage to literally everything. Plus, Ap1 makes it 50% more likely to wreck a vehicle straight away. If you want any anti-vehicle, the bastion breachers is basically a required upgrade.

If you don't want the medusa for anti-vehicle, then what on earth are you taking a medusa for, as everything else does the same job better or for cheaper?

Plus, a medusa can never fire indirectly in any case.

Blacksails wrote:How did you find your opponent's psychic powers?

Well, the ones on mephiston allowed him to one-shot 250 points of ogryn, so that was rather unfortunate.

Otherwise, I wasn't really bothered by them.

Ailaros wrote:
Well, the ones on mephiston allowed him to one-shot 250 points of ogryn, so that was rather unfortunate.

Otherwise, I wasn't really bothered by them.

Was Mephiston using BA powers, or the new ones? Do you happen to remember which ones?

Uhh...

He used the one that gives him a jump pack, I know for sure. I also know he rolled on divination, I think twice, and got I think prescience and the one that gives you an invul save, I think.

Oh, but he also had S10. I dont' know if he just gets that or if that was a psychic ability.

Ailaros wrote:

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:As for the bombarding assault marines, I hadn't noticed the Bastion Breachers. With the changes to ordnance blasts, they're a downgrade in almost every way, whereas previously they were a sidegrade against vehicles and a downgrade against non-vehicles. As for what to do about your army getting in its own way, that's the problem platoon IG will face and I certainly don't have an answer yet.

So, without bastion breachers, a medusa is basically just a single, ludicrously expensive lascannon. I suppose it is ordnance as well, but really.

With the bastion breachers, it always does damage to nearly everything, and nearly always does damage to literally everything. Plus, Ap1 makes it 50% more likely to wreck a vehicle straight away. If you want any anti-vehicle, the bastion breachers is basically a required upgrade.

If you don't want the medusa for anti-vehicle, then what on earth are you taking a medusa for, as everything else does the same job better or for cheaper?

Plus, a medusa can never fire indirectly in any case.

Without BBs, it's a S10 AP2 Ordnance round that is far more likely to actually hit its intended target (and give you a damage result) due to the bigger template. With BBs, it's just a long range multimelta that's slightly less accurate. If the BB upgrade gave you the choice of which round to fire, they'd be great, but the current rules make them a downgrade.

When it comes to putting wounds on 2+ save models and doubling out T5 models, nobody does it better. The Manticore brings the same strength but without the AP, and the Demolisher doesn't have the range, so there isn't anything else in the IG arsenal that duplicates what the Medusa can do.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ailaros wrote:Uhh...

He used the one that gives him a jump pack, I know for sure. I also know he rolled on divination, I think twice, and got I think prescience and the one that gives you an invul save, I think.

Oh, but he also had S10. I dont' know if he just gets that or if that was a psychic ability.

He can't actually do that. To roll on the Divination table, he'd have to give up all three of his innate Blood Angel powers so he'd lose Wings and the S10 attacks. If he didn't trade in any powers, his third power would have been the one that gives him Preferred Enemy.

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:Without BBs, it's a S10 AP2 Ordnance round that is far more likely to actually hit its intended target (and give you a damage result) due to the bigger template.

Except it doesn't. The BB only reduces its hit radius by 1".

Without BBs against a piece of AV14, is hit on .33, and of the 2/3ds that don't hit directly, .58 still hit anyways for a total of .71 hits. You then cause a penetrating hit on a .33. Of those penetrating shots, .33 cause a wreck straight away. With BB's, it's hitting on .6, .72 penetrate, and .5 cause a wreck.

Without BBs, it's acing the vehicle about once in every 13 times you shoot it. With BB's, it wrecks it about once in every 4 or 5 times you shoot it. This is a very substantial improvement. The fact that the non-BB hits ever so slightly more doesn't make up for the +D6, and it CERTAINLY doesn't make up for the Ap1.

Bastion breachers are a real upgrade to killing vehicles. The only thing it does worse is killing terminators...

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:When it comes to putting wounds on 2+ save models and doubling out T5 models, nobody does it better. The Manticore brings the same strength but without the AP, and the Demolisher doesn't have the range, so there isn't anything else in the IG arsenal that duplicates what the Medusa can do.

... which a demolisher can do just as well. The range difference between a non-BB medusa and a demolisher isn't very much, and a demolisher is much more able to survive until it can deliver its payload.

In any case, terminators are better handled by weight of fire anyways. A bolter boat exterminator kills terminators faster anyways, and can also be used to take down light vehicles and those pesky fliers to boot.

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:He can't actually do that. To roll on the Divination table, he'd have to give up all three of his innate Blood Angel powers so he'd lose Wings and the S10 attacks. If he didn't trade in any powers, his third power would have been the one that gives him Preferred Enemy.

Oh.

Well, I know he rolled on divination. Perhaps he just decided that he didn't like what he rolled and decided to just take the default options instead?

You're not supposed to do that either. It is all or nothing. Either you keep your codex powers, no rolling on the table, or you roll on the table, no codex powers.

Ordnance weapons roll twice and take the higher value, so the non BBs are pentrating 55% percent of the time. You're looking at 13% versus 21%. 6.5 shots versus 5 against AV14.

AV12 and AV13 vehicles make the normal Medusa better and better as their smaller hulls allow less and less scatter and offer less and less return on the improved penetration.

What size vehicle are you basing your hit number on? I think you're undervaluing the increased radius given how small dreadnoughts and Rhino hulls (the most common vehicles seen in 40k) are. That 1 inch radius advantage on the template means that an average scatter roll on your BBs misses a chimera hull, rhino hull or dreadnought unless you scatter straight forward or backward, though that still misses the dread. The normal round still hits those targets.

By the way, Hammer and Anvil and Spearhead make the range edge over the Demolisher huge, especially given how vulnerable non-transports are to being assaulted.

Also, good luck torrenting down paladins and nob bikers. It might work on Codex Assault Terminators, but units of multiwound characters are another story, especially with FnP.

And if he doesn't like his psychic disciplne roll, he can take the Primaris power, but can't elect to go back to the Codex powers.

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:What size vehicle are you basing your hit number on? I think you're undervaluing the increased radius

?

The radius of a large blast template is only 1" larger than the small. If you want to say that you can scatter up to 2" and still have it hit, then the non-BB will hit on a "hit" or on a scatter up to 5", while the BB will hit on a "hit" or a scatter up to 4". That's practically the same. Whatever amount of scatter, the non-BB will only ever have a 1" advantage. Yes, there is a bell curve in there, but still, this is a pretty minor difference.

As you say, you have to look at the radius, not the diameter. There really isn't very much difference here.

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:Also, good luck torrenting down paladins and nob bikers.

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that a splatcannon with LOS hits half the time here. Against displaced models, it will be hitting 3 (even against non-displaced models, you're not likely getting more, as 40mm and biker bases are pretty big). Then you get a .84 to wound, and your opponent gets a 5++ save. In this case, the average damage is .84 dead models. Of course, it's worse if the bikes are turboboosting, or if the unit has storm shields, but let's assume for the moment that they don't.

For basically the same price as a demolisher (done to filter out the difference of AV14 and the benefit of LB in this case), a bolter boat exterminator throws down an average of 3 autocannon hits and 4.5 heavy bolter hits for 5.5 wounds. Against the bikers or regular terminators, this does MORE damage (if only slightly). In the case of paladins, yes, it does only a little more than half as much damage, but that's a single unit in a game filled with tons of units.

... almost all of which, the exterminator is also better at. It's better against fliers (as it can actually attack them), and against MEq, and GEq, and vehicles from AV10-12, and anything with a storm shield, and monstrous creatures. Really, it's just AV14 and paladins that the medusa really wins against. Unless you're going up against those, it doesn't make a lot of sense to bring them (and if you're up against AV14, you need the BB shells).

I mean, I knew all of this going into this game, but felt that my HWSs were a little too squishy, and that I wanted to put in some vehicular counterbattery instead (3 colossuses were rather overkill, I agree). That said, they're probably not going to stay long.

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:And if he doesn't like his psychic disciplne roll, he can take the Primaris power, but can't elect to go back to the Codex powers.

pretre wrote:You're not supposed to do that either. It is all or nothing. Either you keep your codex powers, no rolling on the table, or you roll on the table, no codex powers.

Thanks, I'll make sure to let him know. All these new rules...

Yeah, that's a pretty common mistake right now, so totally understandable.

I understand your issue about luck, Ailaros. I've had games that I felt like I lost due to luck, then upon reflection thought of an action that might have given me a draw or win. I've also had a few games like the one you describe where I literally had no idea how to overcome the die rolls. That's just part of the game, though. It doesn't mean there's never any decisions to be made ever, just in an odd occasional game.

Anyway, good write-up, as usual. I like the separation of the analytic from the narrative. You might want to think of alternate ways of getting the King's Guard into the action. Since you're taking them a lot, maybe get them seconded to Melchior's command so it makes sense why they work with the regiment so often.

He must have had a farseer? Maybe the seer was using the book powers?

Red Corsair wrote:He must have had a farseer? Maybe the seer was using the book powers?

Oh, that was totally it. His farseer gave everything a 4+ invul, which only would have made sense if he had taken divination. That and his farseer did basically nothing that game, so it would have made sense that I wouldn't have seen many of his psychic powers being used.

Biophysical wrote:I understand your issue about luck, Ailaros. I've had games that I felt like I lost due to luck, then upon reflection thought of an action that might have given me a draw or win. I've also had a few games like the one you describe where I literally had no idea how to overcome the die rolls. That's just part of the game, though. It doesn't mean there's never any decisions to be made ever, just in an odd occasional game.

Well, that's really what my first two series of reports were about.

What I have come to know, though, is that while this game is an incredibly obvious example of luck on a game, that it really is just the tiniest tip of the iceberg. Games in which the effects of luck are less obvious aren't actually determined by luck in any less of an amount than in this game. I still would have rolled the same dice to do the same things, it just would have been easier to overlook the dice and only look at the decisions I made. Decisions I make, however do not change the fact that it's the dice that determine the outcomes of my actions, not the particular quality of the decisions themselves.

Really, you could comment about the odds I chose to play, but it's still odds I'm playing. I'm very convinced that firing danger close was still the best odds to play because the risk to reward was most clearly in my favor. It would be like playing blackjack and drawing a 12. The correct decision is to take another card. If you pull a face card and someone comes by and says "if you wouldn't have taken another card, you wouldn't have gone bust" is pointless, as the correct decision in that circumstance is to take another card. The end result (that you went bust), is determined by the cards, regardless of how smart a decision you make.

Not to say that I'm a 40k god here, or anything. My point is that nit-picking over decisions in a game where the results are determined by a coarse, random mechanic, actually doesn't have as much utility as some people think. Not, of course, that I thus refuse to engage in conversations about 40k tactics...

Biophysical wrote:Anyway, good write-up, as usual. I like the separation of the analytic from the narrative. You might want to think of alternate ways of getting the King's Guard into the action. Since you're taking them a lot, maybe get them seconded to Melchior's command so it makes sense why they work with the regiment so often.

So, the problem I have is with how to get them there. I can only think of three ways that deepstriking makes sense. The first is that they burrowed in, but that's super lame. The second is that they are flown in by aircraft (as is their fluff), and the third is that they were actually there, all along, and they just now sprung up and started shooting, but that really only makes sense if they are showing up in terrain.

As such, I think I'm stuck with the drop-off. With outflanking or infiltrating, it would make sense that the officer gave the order for them to set up or outflank, but deepstriking seems to be tricky.

If other people have ideas, though, I'd certainly be glad to hear them.

I like the Kingsguard. Its a fluffy and fun unit. I myself have been running stormtroopers, but in 5man 2 plasma gun squads.

So, after watching this in action, I've got a crazy idea, and feel free to call me crazy over this but...

Remember those foot vets you kept going on about in 5th edition? I think you might've found a use for them. Take two squads with plasma and maybe even demolitions, and use them as your countercharge unit instead of the ogryn. You've got the slots available, and against most targets, those vets would do more damage than the ogryn would. Heck you can even throw in a fist if you want, but the meltabombs all the guys will have will probably solve that problem as well.

Other than that, not sure what to say about the medusas. You've yet to run into a situation where you've needed them really, and that in itself might be a telling factor. Of course, the moment you don't take them, someone will bring 4 landraiders to a game. Maybe take more stormies and give them melta? I'd imagine two 5 man melta units and a 10 man unit with x2 flamers would make a great back field element.

The radius matters and the target's size matters, because the target's size dictates how much you can miss by, and the point of inflection where one misses and the other hits is at the fat part of the bell curve (i.e. a roll of 7) for BS3 shooting at most vehicles. The Land Raider is really the only one large enough that the point of inflection is past the fat part of the bell curve. For things like dreadnoughts, that point moves to a 6.

As for shooting at flyers, that's what the Vendettas and the BiD'd autocannon teams are for. Saying that a prybar is better than a torque wrench for driving nails is silly when you can carry a hammer so easily. Since damn near everything IG is so cheap, at 1850 or 2000 points, you can have all the tools to cover your bases if you choose to.

Putting 5.5 wounds into a squad of Nob bikers nets you about 4 unsaved wounds, 1 that get's FnP'd away, and then half of them get LOS'd to different nobs, meaning you might kill one. The Medusa round hits 3 or 4 Nobs, killing an entire model with no FnP for each successful wound. For paladins, it's even more pointless to try to torrent them down. You do 5.5 wounds, which nets you (maybe) 1 failed save, with a 50% chance that it gets thrown onto a random model. The Medusa round hits 3 (or more if they aren't in a perfect skirmish line), killing 2/3 of the wounded models outright.

The Medusa excels at killing light armor and heavy infantry. Light infantry die to volume of fire from things like Chimeras and Hellhounds, and heavy armor gets Stormtrooper meltaguns to the face or assaulted by Demovets. Then again, I do have to admit finding a sick glee in the idea of deepstriking Stormtrooper squads with flamers. Maybe it's knowing that setting something on fire below you as you drift down on a grav chute sounds like a great way to fall into a raging inferno.

Oh, I'm not criticizing your artillery targets in any way. I would (and do) fire at the same types of targets as you did ten times out of ten. I'm just saying not every game results in irrelevant decisions like this one did.

As far as the Stormtroopers go, I meant more that they were attached to Melchior's headquarters (his own command, or just above). They could be waiting back in their barracks, playing cards and smoking cigarettes until Melchior's request comes over the wire. Then they grab their gear, hop in a Valk, and take off for the battle. My whole idea was that if Melchior keeps needing Kingsguard support, the Crown Prince should put them under his command (even if they're still stationed in orbit) so they can be coordinated more effectively. It's minor, and probably not worth the column inches I've devoted to it, but it's a thought that came into my head.

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:

As for shooting at flyers, that's what the Vendettas and the BiD'd autocannon teams are for. Saying that a prybar is better than a torque wrench for driving nails is silly when you can carry a hammer so easily. Since damn near everything IG is so cheap, at 1850 or 2000 points, you can have all the tools to cover your bases if you choose to.

I have to disagree here about the auto temas. People continue to claim BiD auto teams are a solution to fliers but it really isn't. You can order one auto canon team, that's 6 shots twin linked which gives you just under two hits. Again being generous and saying it's 2 st7 hits on what, usually armor 11 at least. Lets be real ork fliers are not worth worrying over for guard. So your looking at one glance/pen then they get to jink it off if its worth the attempt 33% of the time, if its just a hull point why would they bother. That is horrible, one hydra will get you 3 hits on average at least for almost the same cost and it doesn't have to worry about leadership. Heck I would even BiD my plasma vets before I used an auto team at least then they have an equal shot if they are within 12" and are AP2 if they get to the damage chart. To combat fliers I'll agree it is going to take hydra teams of vendetta squads, the math doesn't support any other option in the guard codex.

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:The radius matters and the target's size matters, because the target's size dictates how much you can miss by, and the point of inflection where one misses and the other hits is at the fat part of the bell curve (i.e. a roll of 7) for BS3 shooting at most vehicles.

Yes, there is a tiny variation here, but you're missing the point. Overall, medusas without bastion breachers are still worse against vehicles. End of.

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:As for shooting at flyers, that's what the Vendettas and the BiD'd autocannon teams are for.

Not all of us want vendettas (or, for that matter, can afford them). I agree that BiD autocannons have the shots, but they don't have the survivability. In a fight between a vendetta and a CCS+HWS, I'd put my money on the flier. Lascannons will kill the HWS faster than the HWS will kill the flier.

Basically, the problem isn't the autocannon, the problem is the HWS.

So far, the one flier I've taken down was with BiD and a melta hedge. If fliers are moving close, they're moving into melta range, or at least in range of Ap1 weapons...

MrMoustaffa wrote: not sure what to say about the medusas. You've yet to run into a situation where you've needed them really, and that in itself might be a telling factor. Of course, the moment you don't take them, someone will bring 4 landraiders to a game. Maybe take more stormies and give them melta?

Yeah, and they'd come with hellguns as well. I'm actually thinking of following up on the success of the first squad with a second. I think meltas would be more appropriate (or perhaps plasma) than anther flamer squad.

The reason I never took medusas was because they were extremely niche, and I never had a need for them. Turns out that even when I can engineer a need for them, they're still too niche.

MrMoustaffa wrote:Remember those foot vets you kept going on about in 5th edition? I think you might've found a use for them. Take two squads with plasma and maybe even demolitions, and use them as your countercharge unit instead of the ogryn. You've got the slots available, and against most targets, those vets would do more damage than the ogryn would. Heck you can even throw in a fist if you want, but the meltabombs all the guys will have will probably solve that problem as well.

You're crazy!

So, 2x vets with a total of 6 plasma and 2 autocannon for a S7 party would cost the same. It would be less durable, what with 20 T3 wounds instead of 18 T5 wounds, but I guess it would be split across squads, somewhat. About killing power? Well, it would do twice as good against AV10, and better again against 12. It would certainly do better against non SS termies... yeah, and beat the pants off of regular termies as well.

I suppose this is running into the same problems I've been having before with my infantry, though. Pickoutable weapons upgrades on a really fragile frame. Yeah, they're not HWS fragile, but they're not exactly... well.. ogryn tough, now are they?

You know, I suppose I could consider swapping out my heavies for this - 3 plasma vet squads instead of 2 russes. But then weren't we all just talking about the necessity of strong, durable counterbattery fire?

I'll think about it over the next games, but I don't have the models to pull this off at the moment, so for now it will just be something on my radar.

You know how you like to hide your ogryn sometimes and wait till the enemy comes close to expose them to enemy fire?

That's what you do with the vets. You hide them, and you say to your opponent, "come and get me, if you think you're man enough." Make him realize that even if he does make it to your line, he'll be eating so much AP 2 his termies will break out in hives everytime they so much as hear the word "plasma."

In fact, I wonder if this is just something we're missing about foot guard in general. We've got more dakka and more bodies than almost any army in the game. Why are we cowering in the deployment zone? Every game I've won so far in 6th has been by me being aggressive. And were they blobs? Heck no. I rushed em with friggin 10 men melta squads at 60pts apiece. I rarely saw more than 3 survive till the end of the game, but they did their job admirably. I forced my opponent to try and deal with everything in my army at once, or get overwhelmed in a horde of bullets and flak armor. HWS's while Stormtroopers and marbo popped up in the backfield, with russes and roughly a 120 really angry guardsmen surging forward, in one insane tide of pain. Could it use some tweaking? Heck yeah. Was it effective when I put my big boy pants on and took the fight to the enemy? Definitely.

You used to be one of the most aggressive IG players on this board. Show those guys why IG is one of the most feared armies right now. Take the fight to him. Everything besides a HWS should be moving forward, even the russes. Don't beat them, crush them. We're the sledgehammer of the emperor, time to act like it.

*DISCLAIMER: Obviously there are some situations where this isn't the most intelligent of choices, but I'm not joking when I say be agressive. Nobody expects IG players to be the aggressor, and as I'm sure you know, watching your opponent's face when you move those 100 guardsmen straight towards him is priceless. So what if blobs are dead? We can still bring so many guardsmen to a fight that we can cover the table, arguably even more so now that we aren't bringing commissars. Just give it a try. If you're gonna lose, may as well go out in the most badass way possible.

MrMoustaffa wrote:You know how you like to hide your ogryn sometimes and wait till the enemy comes close to expose them to enemy fire?

That's what you do with the vets. You hide them, and you say to your opponent, "come and get me, if you think you're man enough." Make him realize that even if he does make it to your line, he'll be eating so much AP 2 his termies will break out in hives everytime they so much as hear the word "plasma."

In fact, I wonder if this is just something we're missing about foot guard in general. We've got more dakka and more bodies than almost any army in the game. Why are we cowering in the deployment zone? Every game I've won so far in 6th has been by me being aggressive. And were they blobs? Heck no. I rushed em with friggin 10 men melta squads at 60pts apiece. I rarely saw more than 3 survive till the end of the game, but they did their job admirably. I forced my opponent to try and deal with everything in my army at once, or get overwhelmed in a horde of bullets and flak armor. HWS's while Stormtroopers and marbo popped up in the backfield, with russes and roughly a 120 really angry guardsmen surging forward, in one insane tide of pain. Could it use some tweaking? Heck yeah. Was it effective when I put my big boy pants on and took the fight to the enemy? Definitely.

You used to be one of the most aggressive IG players on this board. Show those guys why IG is one of the most feared armies right now. Take the fight to him. Everything besides a HWS should be moving forward, even the russes. Don't beat them, crush them. We're the sledgehammer of the emperor, time to act like it.

*DISCLAIMER: Obviously there are some situations where this isn't the most intelligent of choices, but I'm not joking when I say be agressive. Nobody expects IG players to be the aggressor, and as I'm sure you know, watching your opponent's face when you move those 100 guardsmen straight towards him is priceless. So what if blobs are dead? We can still bring so many guardsmen to a fight that we can cover the table, arguably even more so now that we aren't bringing commissars. Just give it a try. If you're gonna lose, may as well go out in the most badass way possible.

Actually I have to agree, keep em cheap and bring as many as you can. "quantity has a quality of it's own," or how ever the old Stalin quote goes. If he is saturated with targets he really can't do all that much. He has to assault the same target he shoots, no help there. Use your troops as the hammer and deep strike kings guard from the rear to play the anvil. The beautiful surgical anvil of the king .