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To view the previous report in this series, click here. To view the next report in this series, click here. To view more battle reports in The Hand of the King series, click here. To view the tactical overview for this report, click here.

"At least it's not snowing," the priest replied. It didn't help.

Melchoir was miserable. All morning, the overcast sky had thrown down a driving rain. The frigid wind drove straight through flak armor and uniform, flesh and bone. He was completely soaked. Shivering only seemed to invite the freezing rain to discover new nooks and folds to pool into underneath his clothing, for supplying very little warmth in return. Of course, it wasn't even the worst thing to happen to him all day.

The officer had woken up at about two in the morning, stripped nearly naked and stuck in a thorn bush. He had been one of a small number of people who managed, at no apparent effort of their own, to escape from the disaster at the shrine. Putting together what little information they had, it was clear to Melchoir that an Eldar witch had used him and the space marine forces as mere playthings in its own deeply sinister plans. The guardsmen had killed the space marine commander. The space marines had destroyed his artillery. The warlock got the shrine of St. Corvinus.

Melchoir's loathing for Eldar had no limits, as far as he was concerned. Just a few months ago, he had picked out another hair-thin fragment of a shuriken that had years ago been burrowed into his skin. Every time he thought he got the last fragment, another would mysteriously appear. Eldar had also been the cause for him nearly losing his left arm. The venoms on the blade had ensured that they never healed properly. He would have led a renewed counterattack, but experience had taught him that this particular Xeno foe scarcely tarried. Whatever they wanted, by now they already had it, and were already long gone.

And now, still reeling from the previous day and working on scarcely any sleep at all, the officer scowled into the rain, sogging down his uniform and pooling gently into his chin strap.



With new enemies afoot, and with his situational awareness severely compromised by the still shambled nature of communication and this infernal sleeting, Melchoir had no choice but to be cautious. He had ordered his forces to dig in, attempting to defend the small ruined outpost as best he could. At some point, someone would tell him what was going on. For now, he just had to wait.

It was here, at the weak eastern road into town that he had just set up in, taking along his small ogryn posse and some of his better troops. Fortifications would begin soon. They just needed to break out the tools and form up properly in the rain.

"... and even then," the priest continued, "it really does look like it's about to clear up."

Melchoir could only grumble, but the priest was right. It was less raining and more blowing through a freezing mist. Even the blank greyness of the clouds was threatening to break up and let some of the late morning sunshine through.

The priest even felt it safe enough to open his prayer book. With studied practice, he found the entry for We are Refined by Our Hard Labors in His Eyes - Sanario's favorite prayer to begin any feat of manual labor. His presence had already been vital to keeping up the morale of the men. Nobody likes digging in the mud and in the rain, but everybody liked pleasing their God-Emperor. The commissar's way had never made sense. Why inspire fear in the face of reluctance when you could lead your men to gladly forbear any ill, and all with a smile on their faces?

Well, maybe "smile" would be too liberal of a word to use here.

As if on cue, the clouds just started to part and the mist just begin to blow away. Melchoir set his men to work.



Suddenly, the air split open with the sounds of battle. A deluge of fire from an enemy unknown began to rake through the fog.

"Prepare for battle!" Melchoir shouted. They thought they were going to be so clever by attacking out of the storm? Well, they would just have to see about that. Prepared or no, the officer would see just who would out-think whom.

The officer looked up just as the sun broke through a hole in the clouds. At first, he was momentarily disoriented. Then he saw them. Black shapes moving quickly against the sun. From out of the break in the clouds, enemy air support began to pour through.

"Incoming!" the officer shouted as the first fighters began their strafing run.




***

The ogryn bone 'ead looked up too. He never much cared for things buzzing around his face in general, and things that stung him (in this case, getting shot at by a multimelta) only made him angry.

"Me no like flying tings!" the ogryn leader bellowed at the top of his lungs. The rest of his squad, being slightly inconvenienced by assault cannon fire could only agree.

The besashed ogryn hopped up in the air slightly, waving his sword to swat at the offending storm talon as it began its dive. Frustrated, the ogryn looked at his left hand. In his massive, sweaty palm, he saw a 200mm hand cannon. Angry, he threw his left arm in the air, trying to swat at the aircraft with the other large chunk of metal he was holding onto. The gun didn't seem to have any more reach than the sword did. This was really frustrating.

The ogryn officer squinted hard as his cybernetic implants began to hum slightly. With intense effort, he squirted a thought into his brain.

"Nah that'tl be a decisive action!" The officer shouted to himself. The other ogryn looked at their leader. One jumped briefly as he was shot in the butt by a strafing lascannon.

"Preparaaaa ARMS!" the bone 'ead shouted above the screaming dive of the aircraft. The ogryn all took out their massive guns and collectively hashed out the best way to load the break-action weapons. With a massive blast, one of the ogryn accidentally shot another from a few feet away. In retaliation, the second ogryn shot the first one in the face. Both of the ogryn fell into hysterical laughter, one of them literally rolling on the floor, wallowing in the mud as blood began to seep through his freshly-pressed uniform.

The other ogryn looked on with glee, but were then reminded of their job by their stern-faced, mustachioed commander. At their will, those who wanted to began to fire randomly up into the air, huge clouds of shrapnel flying in a direction that would liberally be described as "up", much less "on target".

As fast as the aircraft approached, they swooped over the ogryn's head and were gone. Leaving a small trail of bodies and a wrecked artillery piece in their wake. One of the guardsmen autocannon teams had managed to take down a flier, causing a massive explosion, and raining more shrapnel down. The ogryn delighted in this, but with how quickly the other aircraft departed, it seemed that the fliers really didn't want to stick around and play.

Becoming suddenly bored, the bone 'ead tried to figure out what to do next. Initiative was never easy for an ogryn, even for one so greatly enhanced as the bone 'ead. Through his thick brain, he had remembered something his friend Caspar used to say to him: When in doubt, he should thug 'em up.

But who, it should be asked, should be thugged up? Nobody else seemed to think it was funny when ogryn fought each other, and if anybody thought it was funny when they used chimeras as target practice, he hadn't heard from anyone yet.

His slow mind congealing, he turned towards his men. When in doubt, always charge straight forward.

"N'allright!" he bellowed by means of getting his posse's attention. It mostly worked. "We'all'r gonna go over there, " he said, pointing with his sword, "and we'all'r'a thuggem up!"

"Thug! Thug! Thug! Thug!" the ogryn responded cheerfully, a few reloading their hand cannons and firing in whatever general direction seemed to suit them most at the moment.

"N'all'et's go!" He shouted. The ogryn suddenly looked very serious, mostly reloading their weapons and standing attention. "I said N'all's going now!" The officer repeated.

"Iffa?" one of the ogryn asked, patiently.

"N'all's-a going, IFFA PLEESE!" The officer shouted. Properly instructed, the ogryn began to bound forward onto the road.



Just as they lumbered over (read: though) the barricades on the other side of the road, another flier came screaming over head. Instead of simply flying over them and strafing, like all the others had been doing (there had been a few more waves already), this one was slowing down. This one looked like it was going to stop right in front of them.

The ogryn fumbled with their weapons as 10-small'uns jumped out of the back. Before the ogryn had a chance to shoot at the flier, the vehicle was already gone. He could still see enemies in front of him, though. Ten new friends to thug up. Crudely, the bone 'ead got his ogryn into something that vaguely resembled a line.

"Iffa pleese!" the officer shouted "Presentaaaaaaa ARMS!"

The ogryn leveled their massive cannons at the target in front of them.



The storm trooper sergeant had just executed another perfect landing out of his valkyrie. The bird had been circling around, waiting for a break in the clouds when it finally found one. Deftly, the valkyrie pilot had waited until the enemy fighters had poured through, and then followed in after them to deliver their cargo.

The sergeant looked around to develop his situational awareness. He had landed next to the eastern road out of town, he knew from his time spent looking at the maps on the way in. Behind him, an enemy razorback was spitting heavy bolter fire at its target across the road. He turned around. In front of him were 6 huge, angry ogryn pointing their ripper cannons straight at him and his men.

The sergeant shrieked like a little girl and dove for the ground. His men instinctively followed suit.

"FIRE!" the bone 'ead shouted a split second later. A concussive blast and massive set of fireballs blasted mere inches right above the stormtrooper's heads. A cloud of shrapnel deluged just above them and slammed into the razorback behind them. The cascade of flying steel ripped the entire front face of the vehicle off, sending a ragged chunk of steel flying back over the vehicle and instantly pasting all of the crew inside.

"FRIENDLY!" the storm trooper screamed, slightly uncrouching and lifting his hands into the air. "Friendly!" he shouted again, this time in a somewhat more post-pubescent tone.

The bone 'ead glared down at him as the rest of the ogryn began to reload.

"Whassa password, iffa please?" the ogryn demanded.

"Iffa pleese?" the sergeant asked.

A smile broke out over the ogryn's face. "Smart little human knows special password!" the officer exclaimed with glee "N'yall'r here ta help us thugg 'em up?"

"What?" the storm trooper asked, bewhildered. "Yes!" he replied again, uncrouching, but still usure, "We're going to help you thug them up."

The bone 'ead clapped his hands in glee. More celebratory gunfire erupted from the ogryn.

As the battle continued to rage upfield, the ogryn and the stormtroopers set about the task of clearing the ruin. The ogryn squealed in delight as the Kingsguard's flame throwers expelled some hidden snipers from cover. Their screaming, burning, flailing, and running around greatly amused them. For their part, the stormtroopers were glad of the ogryn opening fire on absolutely every thing that moved (that wasn't also them).

When the immediate battle was done, the stormtrooper explained that he needed to make contact with the other guardsmen. The bone 'ead explained that he needed to keep charging straight forwards.

The two parted as friends.


***

Sanario was furious. As far as he was concerned, at the first sight of aircraft, Melchoir had turned the coward and ran away. Whatever other action may have happened, Sanario never saw a single enemy apart from a handful of planes that had shown up briefly, and disappeared just as quickly.

It had started to pour rain again, and Melchoir had used this opportunity to escape. The enemy aircraft had caused serious casualties, but that missed the point. The enemy had just begun an armored charge straight up the undefended road, something which Melchoir wisely knew that he was powerless to stop. Hopefully the enemy would spend the next hours cautiously picking over the ruins, trying to root out boobytraps, and wary of an ambush. That the officer had no such things in place he hoped would go unnoticed as long as possible.

With luck, he would be able to lead all of what remained of his groups back up to line command, which was finally just beginning to establish itself on hill 23-514 some miles inward from his outer perimeter.

He really wished there was a "We are made mighty by our stalwart advance to the rear" in Sanario's book of prayer and chant. Given the glare that the priest was giving him - icier than the weather - he could only guess that there was not.

***

So, I hope you enjoyed game 3. This game has posed a moral problem for me as described in the tactics section of this report. I'm looking for input, and welcome comments.

Awesome an Ailaros report again already!!!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
OK, first off, great game! It is always a pleasure to read of your exploits and to read your tactical analyses and reviews.

That being said, I think you may need to reconsider your strategy a tad. I personally am not a fan of Medusa and I think that three Colossus is overkill as well. From my experience with guard, the static artillery simply draw fire, couple that with an almost exclusive foot list and you are now sitting there with three giant targets mixed in with your infantry. I think the single Colossus idf fine but that a Russ in whatever variant you prefer (sans the Eradicator lol) will almost always accomplish more. Take a demolisher or exterminator and drive it into one firing lane and choke it while providing devastating fire.

Next, air superiority is now something we all HAVE to consider, and HWS even with BiD are really not the answer. A cunning opponent will now you rely on BiD and simply nerf your CCS as soon as his fliers arrive. I think as your third HS slot (Colossus + LR being the others) Hydras are still money for me. People are saying hydras suck now due to the lack of interceptor but I find these people not well informed. here are my reasons, first you are going to see fliers in most matches if not now, then for sure in the next few months. Second people tend to forget they work on skimmers as well (see that falcon in your 2nd game) and most armies have those already. Lets review, most guard bring Vendettas (check)... Orks bring new jets or coptas frequently, (check)... Eldar/tau/necrons/DE all use skimmers heavily (check).... Marines have speeders/Ravens and talons now (check)... Tyranids and demons use FMC (check)... So in review the Hydra ,for a mere 75 pts btw, is incredibly useful now more then ever. People suggest that they will be devastated before they can fire on the fliers but then why not simply opt to go second when possible and reserve your hydra battery to counter enemy fliers arrival. Aside from this option I am afraid Vendettas of your own are your only option.

Lastly I think you may have jumped the gun on retiring your blobs. I think 22 is now a solid number (10+10+2 commisars) the extra Commisar is built in redundancy for that random precision shot. I think a couple of these blobs with a pair of auto canons and plasma guns are still viable and are easily placed behind and Aegis (yes with proper spacing) after that I believe MSU guard squads outflanking with Alrehem would be great to take far and away objectives and would later draw fire off your two home base Aegis camping units. Pair this outflanking platoon with the astropath and three, that's right three units of Storm troopers and I think you will have a terrifying away team. For me Ogryns are no longer as useful due to the disappearance of combat platoons in your army. Now as it stands they are an oddball CC unit that is easily countered because it is the only unit fulfilling that odd role.

This is simply my take, I personally run a mix of mech vets and platoons because it makes the army as a whole harder to counter because it is multidimensional. I do think Alrehem can do that same job that my vets do though, and that is split your opponents focus. I think now to play trailer park guard you really do need to bring that dang Aegis other wise you will need at least 3 chimeras to help cover your platoons and protect your command squads.

BTW have you played your old lists in 6th yet. I honestly have not seen any thing in your last three games that would suggest to me that you would lose in hth combat through precision strikes though I do understand it is harder to get the blobs there.

You should ask for more terrain on the board next time, it really looked naked towards the side with coteaz, the lack of terrain and the prevalence of the castles like you mention invite people to play gunline because of the open fire lanes.

To be honest i dont think thats really fair, especially since you play footguard, but maybe its just me.

Anyways great battle report as always

Ailaros wrote:
The storm trooper sergeant had just executed another perfect landing out of his valkyrie. The bird had been circling around, waiting for a break in the clouds when it finally found one. Deftly, the valkyrie pilot had waited until the enemy fighters had poured through, and then followed in after them to deliver their cargo.

The sergeant looked around to develop his situational awareness. He had landed next to the eastern road out of town, he knew from his time spent looking at the maps on the way in. Behind him, an enemy razorback was spitting heavy bolter fire at its target across the road. He turned around. In front of him were 6 huge, angry ogryn pointing their ripper cannons straight at him and his men.

The sergeant shrieked like a little girl and dove for the ground. His men instinctively followed suit.

"FIRE!" the bone 'ead shouted a split second later. A concussive blast and massive set of fireballs blasted mere inches right above the stormtrooper's heads. A cloud of shrapnel deluged just above them and slammed into the razorback behind them. The cascade of flying steel ripped the entire front face of the vehicle off, sending a ragged chunk of steel flying back over the vehicle and instantly pasting all of the crew inside.

"FRIENDLY!" the storm trooper screamed, slightly uncrouching and lifting his hands into the air. "Friendly!" he shouted again, this time in a somewhat more post-pubescent tone.

The bone 'ead glared down at him as the rest of the ogryn began to reload.

"Whassa password, iffa please?" the ogryn demanded.

"Iffa pleese?" the sergeant asked.

A smile broke out over the ogryn's face. "Smart little human knows special password!" the officer exclaimed with glee "N'yall'r here ta help us thugg 'em up?"

"What?" the storm trooper asked, bewhildered. "Yes!" he replied again, uncrouching, but still usure, "We're going to help you thug them up."

The bone 'ead clapped his hands in glee. More celebratory gunfire erupted from the ogryn.

As the battle continued to rage upfield, the ogryn and the stormtroopers set about the task of clearing the ruin. The ogryn squealed in delight as the Kingsguard's flame throwers expelled some hidden snipers from cover. Their screaming, burning, flailing, and running around greatly amused them. For their part, the stormtroopers were glad of the ogryn opening fire on absolutely every thing that moved (that wasn't also them).

When the immediate battle was done, the stormtrooper explained that he needed to make contact with the other guardsmen. The bone 'ead explained that he needed to keep charging straight forwards.

The two parted as friends.

This whole bit...I love reading your batreps for pretty much this stuff. The fact I'm gradually nutting out how to use foot guard is another reason, but mostly the really nice writing which goes into it. Now more, iffa pleese?

I really like your new series of battle reports. Nicely done.

I'll echo dakka farta. That table looked barren. It was pretty much a huge advantage for any gunline, no matter the stripe. If you're always playing on tables like this, you might not be able to keep up your foot guard. It's not how 40k is supposed to be played.

Did your opponent know you were taking foot guard, and tailor his list accordingly? The sportsmanship of this sort of thing, in my opinion, varies from location to location (and person to person). I would say if list tailoring is common in your games, you'll probably want to do it to a limited degree just to even the field a little.

Final thought: I don't think 6 Ogryn really counts as a "Death Star". For one, it's not that expensive (250 points is not much more than many of the MEQ Troops choices). If you don't think you're getting your money's worth, consider dropping them to 5 or 4. They'll still be really tough and have killing power vs quite a few different sorts of enemy squads, but they'll have a smaller footprint and save you some points. Have you considered putting Sanario with the Ogryn? I know his ability doesn't transfer to the Ogryn, but they would get him reliably into close range at times when your CCS doesn't really want to be there. Two characters in the Ogryn squad gives you some useful challenge possibilities also.

Actual Last Thought: Remember that you can move the lasgunners in your PISs around to shield the heavy weapons, and the heavy weapons won't count as moving as long as their bases stay still. I always forget this, which is why I suggest it. As a hole opens up on one side, bodies can flow from the other side to close it.

Biophysical wrote: It's not how 40k is supposed to be played.

Exactly, and its pretty much making you play a gunline yourself, you have the absolute authority to ask for more terrain in my FLGS, and im pretty sure they will allow you to do the same in your gaming club just state your reason and put down a few more of those ruins and hills. Trust me your survivability will drastically increase from all that LOS blockage and cover.

Biophysical wrote:I'll echo dakka farta. That table looked barren. It was pretty much a huge advantage for any gunline, no matter the stripe. If you're always playing on tables like this, you might not be able to keep up your foot guard. It's not how 40k is supposed to be played.

Did your opponent know you were taking foot guard, and tailor his list accordingly? The sportsmanship of this sort of thing, in my opinion, varies from location to location (and person to person). I would say if list tailoring is common in your games, you'll probably want to do it to a limited degree just to even the field a little.

Final thought: I don't think 6 Ogryn really counts as a "Death Star". For one, it's not that expensive (250 points is not much more than many of the MEQ Troops choices). If you don't think you're getting your money's worth, consider dropping them to 5 or 4. They'll still be really tough and have killing power vs quite a few different sorts of enemy squads, but they'll have a smaller footprint and save you some points. Have you considered putting Sanario with the Ogryn? I know his ability doesn't transfer to the Ogryn, but they would get him reliably into close range at times when your CCS doesn't really want to be there. Two characters in the Ogryn squad gives you some useful challenge possibilities also.

Actual Last Thought: Remember that you can move the lasgunners in your PISs around to shield the heavy weapons, and the heavy weapons won't count as moving as long as their bases stay still. I always forget this, which is why I suggest it. As a hole opens up on one side, bodies can flow from the other side to close it.

He did not tailor his list it was the same list he used in his first game against space wolves it was the list he made to use that night he didnt even know who he was playing until after it was done.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

dakka farta wrote:

Biophysical wrote: It's not how 40k is supposed to be played.

Exactly, and its pretty much making you play a gunline yourself, you have the absolute authority to ask for more terrain in my FLGS, and im pretty sure they will allow you to do the same in your gaming club just state your reason and put down a few more of those ruins and hills. Trust me your survivability will drastically increase from all that LOS blockage and cover.

the terrain is pre rolled for before anyone shows up they must have rolled low numbers on that table.

Really? i didnt know, i thought it was just set out. But still i have to say its pretty unfair and since these are friendly games you should be able to ask for more.

dakka farta wrote:Really? i didnt know, i thought it was just set out. But still i have to say its pretty unfair and since these are friendly games you should be able to ask for more.

well with 6th ed you roll for how much terrain there is some of the other board had alot some didnt there wasnt a whole lot left anyway we used most of it we had like 6 tables going.

You roll for how much terrain is in each 6th of the board, but the players still get to place it themselves.

they did get to place them and thats is how they placed it. the store just chose how much is on each table.

Red Corsair wrote:Next, air superiority is now something we all HAVE to consider

Yes, flier spam did basically throw me off the table this game, but I'm not actually too concerned about it in the future. The reason you didn't see his fliers blown out of the sky right away was a combination of my opponent passing all of his cover saves on the TFC (which killed off my HWSs pretty quick), and my opponent passing all of his jink saves. With regular luck, I'm pretty sure I could have handled the fliers with what I had without too much bother.

That said, it does add another notch on the "take exterminators" belt.

Red Corsair wrote:For me Ogryns are no longer as useful due to the disappearance of combat platoons in your army. Now as it stands they are an oddball CC unit that is easily countered because it is the only unit fulfilling that odd role.

Hmm...

dakka farta wrote:You should ask for more terrain on the board next time

Biophysical wrote:I'll echo dakka farta. That table looked barren. It was pretty much a huge advantage for any gunline, no matter the stripe. If you're always playing on tables like this, you might not be able to keep up your foot guard. It's not how 40k is supposed to be played.

There was the correct amount of terrain, though it did feel like it had a disproportionately high amount of non-LOS blocking. It shouldn't have been THAT big of a deal, as I also have gunline elements. Coteaz basically did not a single thing that game. My opponent didn't feel comfortable risking anything, and so never bothered getting him and his henchmen out of the building to be in range.

And that's really the problem. If my opponent wants to take no risks whatsoever, and basically move nothing in the movement phase and never assault and just sit there and roll dice, it's going to be tough to have anything interesting happen, regardless of the terrain. I mean, this is why I was wondering that perhaps I should just not play against people who I know bring gunlines.

Biophysical wrote:Did your opponent know you were taking foot guard, and tailor his list accordingly? The sportsmanship of this sort of thing, in my opinion, varies from location to location (and person to person). I would say if list tailoring is common in your games, you'll probably want to do it to a limited degree just to even the field a little.

It was done up in army builder, so it wasn't literally tailored right there. That said, it was common practice at my FLGS last time I was playing there to show up with two lists every night. One to use against everybody else, and a different one to use just against me. I mean, the player here is the same person who I played in this game and this game. He has a history of showing up against me with a nearly-tailored list and then being really boring with it.

The question then becomes, do I also tailor and bring boring lists? I don't want to be an enabler here.

Biophysical wrote:Final thought: I don't think 6 Ogryn really counts as a "Death Star".

Well, I was saying that merely from the standpoint of how they can be countered. The problem I'm having is connecting with them. Putting the priest in there is actually somewhat interesting, but currently I'm leaning towards just dropping the ogryn altogether.

Biophysical wrote:Actual Last Thought: Remember that you can move the lasgunners in your PISs around to shield the heavy weapons, and the heavy weapons won't count as moving as long as their bases stay still. I always forget this, which is why I suggest it. As a hole opens up on one side, bodies can flow from the other side to close it.

I did. The way I set it up was to have almost everybody in front of the autocannons, with a few guys stretched way back behind the ruins and other stuff. As this was a KP mission, I wanted to have the chance to hide a few guys way in the back to deny the KP. I figured that once the autocannons were targetable the squad was done anyways.

have you considered running any transports?

how can you refuse to play gunline armies? your playing one?

Red Corsair wrote:have you considered running any transports?

Not really. I only have a couple of chimera chassis, and they're being used to represent other vehicles. To run a mech list, I'd need a lot more chimeras, and that would require money I don't have.

That and I'd need to want to play a mech list, which I don't really at the moment.

Overlord Zerrtin wrote:how can you refuse to play gunline armies? your playing one?

I don't WANT to play a gunline, that's the point. In 5th ed, I only left stuff in my deployment zone more as a matter of formality. Everything else charged in as hard and fast as it could. That hasn't happened yet in 6th ed, and that's frustrating.

The problem is that there are some people who, with the lists they bring, and how they play them will basically give me the option of getting tabled in a boring game against a gunline, or playing my guard as a gunline in a boring game against a gunline. My concern is if I can't unlock this puzzle, I'll only be playing games of 40k that I would be wishing I were home doing something else instead. If I'm not having fun playing 40k, why bother playing at all?

So I'll be seriously thinking and working at this. There are things I'll be changing about myself and my army, of course, but perhaps 6th edition is one where you really need to have both people agree to play an interesting game for the game to actually be interesting. If that is true, then the only recourse I have, really, is to refuse to play boring people.

I'd rather not that have to be the case, but I'm under no obligation to play a game that I find tedious, rather than fun.

you say you want the game more interesting would the person you played have made it more interesting if he charged forward with his henchman to die needlesly?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
and forgive me if im sounding rude im just interested.

Probably not.

In order for a game to be interesting to me, it should have some amount of a few of these components:

- Both armies move, substantially.

- There are at least a few close-range firefights or close combats.

- There is at least one counterattack (through preferably several), in which territory is exchanged (or at least this attempted).

- The winner at the end of turn 3 is still possibly in doubt.

- Both players are able to kill off a majority of each others' models.

- Something expressly interesting happens, like a bunch of stuff deepstriking, or some HQs getting into a challenge, etc.

and some others.

Looking at game 1, I had 3 of them. Looking at game 2, I had 3 as well. Both of these I'd say were interesting enough to play (though obviously not fantastic, but that's not required), but the last one had a big fat zero of these elements in it.

Lopsided games with one person just sitting there rolling dice at the other isn't terribly interesting. If I wanted to just sit there and roll dice with another person, I could have played yahtzee with my woman back at home.

i like close games too but just because one game isnt the most exciting game of my life or i get crushed in a horribly gory way i still have fun thats just the nature of the game.. tho a nice big destructive close combat is best in my opinion!

What you're seeing feels entirely like a function of Purge the Alien. Both armies have the range to engage each other, so there's nothing to be gained by closing the distance.

When there are objectives to be claimed, the whistles blow, the engines rumble, and the armies collide to take the key parts of the battlefield. Without that, there's nothing to be gained by committing.

It also doesn't help that you've got almost no LoS blocking terrain, which means no one even has to maneuver to shoot at each other.

Overlord Zerrtin wrote:tho a nice big destructive close combat is best in my opinion!

Agreed. It's sad that 6th ed did so much to nerf close combat...

Overlord Zerrtin wrote:i like close games too but just because one game isnt the most exciting game of my life or i get crushed in a horribly gory way i still have fun thats just the nature of the game..

Well, it's not a matter of winning and losing. I had about as much fun in my first game as I did in my second, despite having very different results (well, I'm not going to lie, game 1 was a little better because I won, but still...). I much rather my loss to Cyrus in his chainsword massacre than my loss to Mike in a broadside, even though my loss was more comprehensive in the former than the latter.

Having something be winning or losing, or being close or lop-sided are certainly elements, but they are just a couple of elements in a more comprehensive whole. It would be possible to have a blast in a lop-sided game if both people were otherwise really into it.

Of course, as you are implying, I really only ever have SO much control over it. The dice determine how close a game is, for example, and if my opponent never wants to leave his deployment zone, I can't force him to.

Really, I just want to create the environment where awesomeness has the possibility of happening. If that means skipping playing serial offenders, that will be a part of my strategy to achieve this goal, I suppose, along with changes I'm planning on making myself. If I try as hard as I can, though, and a game is still a dud, I'll still try and polish it over (as in the case of this battle report), and I guess I can't really complain too badly if I tried my hardest at the time. If my hardest isn't good enough, though, to make this happen in a 6th ed game of 40k... well, that's where I'm getting spooked.

I feel my lists are always fun for you to kill lol

If your opponents will not move, punish them for not moving. I can't read the actual battle reports from where I am, but you used to use Stormtroopers, Marbo, and Al'rahem to achieve this. Are you still doing so?

That being said, some codecies do not function as anything except a gunline. It is not necessarily the player's fault they play that way.

DarknessEternal wrote:If your opponents will not move, punish them for not moving. I can't read the actual battle reports from where I am, but you used to use Stormtroopers, Marbo, and Al'rahem to achieve this. Are you still doing so?

That being said, some codecies do not function as anything except a gunline. It is not necessarily the player's fault they play that way.

I think this advice is right on the money. You need to find some other way to bring movement to your game. In this edition being able to change the direction of your fire is important. That's why your stormtroopers have been kicking ass and taking names.

So if you can't get movement through vehicles then perhaps you should go back to trying El Raheem. Sentinels if you got any. Maybe taking Creed and using his tactical genius to sneak in 60 outflanking guardsmen or tanks. Give your opponent choices at what to shoot. Right now target priority is pretty easy to figure out.

Ok, read it from home now.

Take fewer gunline stuff like Medusas and more strike out of nowhere guys like Storm Troopers (who you already know are awesome) and Al'Rahem/Creed.

Take the things that make the game work the way you like. I've found people are happier doing that even if when things don't go their way. Losing games that you don't like is what makes people angry. Losing games you enjoy playing rarely upsets people and you can always control your own army. I have this same conversation with my brother every 6 months after he's fallen back to taking gunline stuff when what he really likes is rushdown.

I want to throw in my $0.02 on the 'foot guard mobility' angle. Unfortunately, in the three batreps, you have stood there and taken it like a man. Your effective squads have been your high mobility ones. The Stormies, and the Ogryns who rush forward into battle.

If you drop some of the heavies and replace them with more deep-strikers, add outflankers, and put a Marbo back into to fray, you can do a lot more to control the battlefield, and get into your opponent's face.

Also, re: bringing two lists (one to fight you), I think this is phenomenal cheese, and I once again lament that you are not near enough to beautiful Boston, Ma to allow me to play against your army. For I bring silly things like Rough Riders and Deathstrikes, oh my.

If I had proof that people brought a 'spare' army list just to fight me, I think I'd be somewhat honored....and right royally pissed.

--B.

I'm not actually bothered by list tailoring that much. Traditionally, I've just seen it as a challenge, and by refusing to tailor, it's another way for me to take a handicap. To me, competitively speaking, I prefer to win as many games as possible by the smallest margin possible. Anyone can win with a netlist. The true test is for someone to win games with utter rubbish.

Not that I've ever fielded utter rubbish, of course, but you see my point. I mentioned it before, but I'll link to it again. I actually consider this game to be the high water mark of my competitive 40k career.

Anyways, I'd like to thank people for their input on this and the last game. I think what I'm going to do is to ditch the HWSs and the ogryn and use the points to buy two more 10x units of stormtroopers. If it's worth taking one of, it's worth taking three of, right? If only there were a way that I could take stormtrooper PLATOONS (because, really, if it's worth taking one of, it's worth taking nine of, right?).

Of course, that's just messing with the support choices. I still feel like there's something missing for my core units...

What about switching the platoons over to veterans, and building conscript blob squads?

Honestly I think if you used Alrehem and the additional stormtroopers you would be set. But by all means you should introduce one change at a time so you can see who impacts the list the greatest. My theory is that 3 units of ST and an outflanking platoon will be more then enough trouble for the enemy. It is just too much disruption coming in from reserve on turn two (astropath) with too much control to ignore. Just knowing that much heat can hit them anywhere at any time will mess their game up.

Ailaros wrote:I don't WANT to play a gunline, that's the point. In 5th ed, I only left stuff in my deployment zone more as a matter of formality. Everything else charged in as hard and fast as it could. That hasn't happened yet in 6th ed, and that's frustrating.

CCS - fist, standard, 2x snipers, medic, bodyguard
Priest - eviscerator

10x stormies - 2x flamers
6x ogryn

PCS - 3x flamers
PIS - autocannon, meltagun
PIS - autocannon, meltagun
PIS - autocannon, meltagun

PCS - lascannon
PIS - autocannon, meltagun
PIS - autocannon, meltagun
PIS - autocannon, meltagun
HWS - 3x lascannons
HWS - 3x lascannons
HWS - 3x autocannons

Colossus
Medusa - bastion breachers
Medusa - bastion breachers

I don't know if you can get more gunline than this. How can you blame your opponent making good tactical decisions on the tabletop?

From what I am taking from your posts, I think a fairly large overhaul of your current list is in order. As others have said, Al Rahem, and stormies fit your theme nicely, and should give you the offensive elements that you are looking for. If you don't want to play a gunline, then don't.

Oh and great stuff btw. Looking forward to more reports!