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Played against the new Tau the other day and had loads of fun trying out the new rules and seeing what the new dex could do.

My List:
Flyrant - 2 x TL devs
HG x2
Ymgarls x5
Troop tervy x2 - catalyst, TS, AG
2 x gants x10
Gargoyles x19
Trygon x2 - TS

His list from memory:
Ethereal
Leader suit ionblaster / missiles
Crisis suits x3 - Plasma/missiles
Riptide - ion cannon / plasma / skyfire
3 x fire warriors x6 (leaders with marker lights)
fire warriors x6 (carbines and devilfish)
Pathfinders x6
Sniper drones (4x drones, 2x spotters)
Ion-head
Broadsides x2 - skyfire, missiles, rail rifles

Battrep to follow - in the meantime - vote for what you think will happen.

Hmm it will be an interesting one. Ive only faced new Tau once with my nids, but there was no riptide. I won, but I think that was down to my opponents mistakes rather than me.

That Riptide will cause serious trouble. Its a horrificly powerful unit. Those Sniper drones and Broadsides will be problematic for the MC's too. As will the heavy Ion weapon saturation. Lots of AP3 for the MC's to get ruined by.

Only one squad of Pathfinders might hurt. Markerlights are such a huge force multiplier that you want a ton of them.

I've only played one game with the new Tau, a 600pt list versus CSM, but being able to drop BS5 Fire Warriors and Stealthsuits on anything I wanted really turned the tide in my favor.

A weird list for the Tau player. Maybe it's just what he has around?

6 Man FW squads are not cool. I always run between 10-12. You want maximum firepower as quick as possible because 6 guys will die fast. They aren't useful for holding objectives either.

Plasma is wasted on 'Nids too. Missile pods are good though but I've been using Missile Pods / Burst Cannon and 4 Gun Drones. Putting out hurt at range and when anything comes close it gets hammered. I've taken out nearly full squads of anything with this combo so far....and I've won every single game with the new Codex so far against Chaos, IG, Dark Eldar and Space Marines.

Ion-Head is another strange choice. Railhead provides a nearly similar pie plate with no risk.

I think you will possibly beat him due to a very bad list.

I think the Tau list has some excellent selections in it and some which are nothing short of a pure head scratcher! I also think that the Tau will go down in this battle report and I am very much looking forward to seeing how the battle went!

Thanks everyone for your patience - now the time you've been waiting for!

Deployment type - Vanguard Strike
Mission - Crusade

Tau Warlord - Reroll 1's to hit
Nid Warlord - Master of Defence

Powers
Flyrant - Iron Arm, Enfeeble
Tervies - Catalyst/Dominion

Night Fighting

Tyranids win the roll-off for first turn, and I elect to go first (hoping to close the gap as fast as possible). Deployment as follows:



Pre-Game

Tyranids
Ok, So this is the first chance I've had to face off against the new Tau, and I've heard lots of nasty rumours about support fire and overcharging that will bring my bugs all kinds of grief. I go for a Big Bug heavy list, though I'm feeling a little nervous with only 2 Hiveguard in the list. My main plan is just to give him too many targets to hit, and hope he makes some poor decisions that allow my bugs to reach his deployment.

Tau
The Tau player has a lot to choose from when creating his list, but elects to try out a lot of different things just to see how they go. We're not playing for sheep stations here, so he tries out an Ethereal and a Riptide. The Suits have all been solid performers in the past, and the Ion Head has been a great vehicle for taking down big bugs (Str 7, 3 shots, AP 3). The smaller fire warrior squads are a bit of a risk, but I believe he's hoping the supporting fire rule will get him across the line here.

Sniper drones are a very new inclusion (and give him a couple of extra marker lights) and of course pathfinders are almost always going to feature in a Tau army.

The plan? Really just try different things out, and shoot me off the board.


Turn 1

Tau attempt to seize the initiative, and get it

Tau T1
With night fighting, the Tau decide to focus on my left Trygon. They light him up with four lights, and use two to strip his cover. The rest of the Tau army barring their left flank then proceed to pummel the Trygon with multiple blasts and shots. A scary note here, the removal of cover makes "the weapon" ignore cover (rather then the target model losing cover) which meant all his blast started taking apart my gargoyles with no cover allowed. After the dust setted though, My Trygon miraculously survived without a scratch. The gargoyles weren't so lucky, losing 12!.

On my right, the Riptide and sniper drones combined fire on my other Trygon, but only managed to cause a single wound.

Nids T1
Ok, so my screen has been almost obliterated, but my monsters are all up and running. Deciding I needed to provide an additional distraction, my right Tervy casts Catalyst on the FLyrant, who casts Iron Arm on himself (T9! ) and swoops right up towards the middle of the Tau line. The other Tervy casts Catalyst on my left Trygon, and the rest of the force advances. My left Tervy spits out 7 more gants (and burns out) to give my Hive Guard some more cover in case the gargoyles get wiped out.

The only eventful shooting is the Flyrant, who lights up the Pathfinders scoring 3 kills. The rest hold their ground. Everything else runs.



Tau T2
Deciding the Flyrant absolutely needs to come down, the broadsides use their skyfire to try and knock it out of the sky. Fortunately for me, none of their shots inflict a wound. Unfortunately I fail my grounded test and crash land (but still don't take a wound!)

The rest of the Tau army then peppers my Flyrant with shot after shot. After almost 1,500 points worth of Tau firing, The Flyrant finally goes down (along with another 3 gargoyles). (It should be noted we made a mistake here, we treated the fire warriors as needing 6's to wound my Flyrant, but they actually could not wound him as he was T9 - need to remember this next time)

Nids T2

Ok, so the good news is he only killed a few bugs last turn. The bad news is I saw just how scary Tau fire power now is at short range. With the Ethereals special powers, those Fire warriors are doing 3 shots each at short range - add in some marker lights and that's downright unfriendly!

Luckily, to help me out my Ymgarls show up in the powerplant and run down to jump on the fire warriors down there. The rest of my force moves forward, the HiveGuard just making it inot range of his Ion head, and the right Trygon taking cover behind the stone pillars. Both Trygons get FnP, My right Tervy spits out 7 gants and dries up (no luck there this game).

Firing sees the HiveGuard put a glance on the Ion Head, and a single fire warrior in the middle go down. I then try to charge the Pathfinders with my 4 gargoyles, but they manage to put 2 marker lights on me. The nearby firewarriors then easily mowed the four down with supporting fire (gaining FirstBlood). My Ymgarls go into his firewarriors, and although I lose two to supporting fire from the riptide, they go in and wipe them out (I should have not charged with the gargoyles, as I could have had First Blood here).



Tau T3

The Tau firepower finally warmed up this turn. Short ranged fire on the gants wiped out my left hand brood, and reduced the right hand brood to one gant. The big guns then targeted my left hand Trygon and Hive Guard, reducing the Trygon to 3 wounds and wiping my Hive Guard, whilst the Riptide wiped out my last three Ymgarls.



Nids T3

By this point, I was feeling completely outgunned, and knew I had to make some decisive blows if I was to stay in the game. With that in mind, I gave both Trygons FnP again and moved everything forwards.

After picking off a few fire warriors here and there, I started playing some games with the supportive fire rules. Firstly, I charged the sniper team on the right with my single gant to force them to overwatch it. Luckily, they failed, and the gant made it in. The Trygon then followed up, needing an 11 but I got it With only the riptide being able to fire, and without the support of marker lights my Trygon went in unscathed. On the left, the Tervy charged the pathfinders. Realising what I was doing, the Tau through everything they had at it, but only inflicted a single wound. The other Trygon then made it into the Ethereal unit, whilst the right Tervy just fell short of the other fire warrior unit.

Carnage ensued as both Trygons made short work of their prey, but the Tervy remained locked with the pathfinders (fine by me!). The Trygon on the right consolidated next to the riptide to say "Hi", whilst the last gant hid behind him on the objective.




(please excuse the blurry photo!)

Tau T 4

The Tau started getting desperate, and mustered all their guns to take down my centre Trygon. The Riptide successfully charged it's Nova engine in preparation for a daring escape from the Trygon next to him.

Focused fire from the suits, broadsides and fire warriors managed to only take two more wounds off the Trygon, leaving him on one. On the other side of the plant, the Riptide took two wounds off my other Trygon, taking him down to three.

The Riptide then used his super charged jetpacks to jump clean over the power plant.

Meanwhile, my Tervy managed to stomp his pathfinders into the dust, and look for her next meal





Nids T4

With the Pathfinders gone, my Tervy started sizing up the Broadsides whilst the Trygon eyed off the Ion head (not wanting to lose my last wound to overwatch). My left Trygon got FnP, and my Right Tervy cast it on himself. The right Tervy used cluster spines to take down some firewarriors, who promptly broke and fled. Meanwhile, the Tervy charged into the broadsides, and locked. The Trygon charged into the Ion Head, and lifted it easily into the air to smash it apart. Unfortunately, the explosion was too much for the wounded beast, and he died under the burning wreckage (yes - 6 to wound, 3 + followed by FnP - died )

On the bright side, the Tau line was getting eaten alive, literally



Tau T5

The Crisis Suits and Riptide slowly bounded away from the unengaged Tervy and Trygon. Firepower was directed at the Tervy, bringing him down to three wounds. Unfortunately for the Tau, my other Tervy then finished off the broadsides in HtH, and started sizing up his suits.

Nids T5

The last of the big bugs continue to close in - The Tervy charging and locking with his suits , whilst the other two advance on the Riptide.





The game goes on another turn

Tau T6

You may have noticed a devil fish skimming around the Nids left flank - well other then taking pot shots here and there, this tank reached its destination this turn to dump 6 fire warriors on my gants holding an objective in the back left corner, shooting my gants off and claiming it for themselves.

Other than that, the Riptide failed to have an impact, whilst my Tervy made a meal of his suits and headed towards his Riptide.

Not only this, but that single gant on the right hand side of the board died in an explosion to a sabotaged objective

Nids T6

Wrapping up the game, my Tervy decided she was still hungry, and advanced on the riptide. After swallowing a drone whole, the Riptide tried to flee but was cut down by the Tervy.





Objective 1 - Nids


Objective 2 - Nids


Objective 3 - Tau
[url=http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/486263-16%20objective%203.html][/url

Score
Nids
2 objectives, Ethereal, Slay the Warlord, Linebreaker - 9

Tau
1 Objective, First Blood, Slay the Warlord, Linebreaker - 6

Nids Victory

Stay tuned for post battle reflections - Please add your own thoughts/comments

Looks like the lack of pie plates played against the Tau in this one...Why I maintain that hammerheads are superior to broadsides fighting anything besides MEQs right now.

Congrats on a well-fought game. BTW the ethereal is worth an extra VP when killed so you actually won 10-6.

@ dbsamurai: Yeah, the advantage of the Broadsides is the ability to have the missile systems as well - giving them a large amount of mid range firepower on top of the TL railguns. Also, a lot of his weapons can now overcharge to gain 'pieplate' status, but I think this was a bad choice given the style of Nid army I took, and the style of Tau army he took. He had plenty of firewarrior guns that could handle any amount of gribblies I pumped out, and he would have been better focus firing on my TMCs with non-pie-plate weaponry to start bringing them down earlier (in the end, he only brought down 2 of my 5 MCs, and one of those was very late in the game).

@ jy2: Thanks! Always enjoy reading your reps and analysis - I would love some feedback on my army if you have any (currently looking at possibly swapping something out for 2-3 biovores...)

 slice'n'dice wrote:
@ dbsamurai: Yeah, the advantage of the Broadsides is the ability to have the missile systems as well - giving them a large amount of mid range firepower on top of the TL railguns. Also, a lot of his weapons can now overcharge to gain 'pieplate' status, but I think this was a bad choice given the style of Nid army I took, and the style of Tau army he took. He had plenty of firewarrior guns that could handle any amount of gribblies I pumped out, and he would have been better focus firing on my TMCs with non-pie-plate weaponry to start bringing them down earlier (in the end, he only brought down 2 of my 5 MCs, and one of those was very late in the game).

@ jy2: Thanks! Always enjoy reading your reps and analysis - I would love some feedback on my army if you have any (currently looking at possibly swapping something out for 2-3 biovores...)

ymgarls would be the first thing I would drop. Good report. If tau bring broadsides they need to have at least 2 units of three and drones. So much dakka can come from that squad its ridiculous.

Good report thanks for sharing and well played. I'm really struggling with Tau vs my Nids, mostly due to the missile broadsides, a couple of castled squads really is horrible. But I've not played an objective mission where they have to rely on their weak troops.

Why did he target a trygon turn one? He also seems very spread out.

 Tomb King wrote:


If tau bring broadsides they need to have at least 2 units of three and drones. So much dakka can come from that squad its ridiculous.

This. 2x 16 S7 And 12 S5 mostly twin linked is bad news unless you get a high iron arm roll on the MCs. If try to assault into any units within 6 inches the twin linked missiles rip little gribblies apart.

 slice'n'dice wrote:

@ jy2: Thanks! Always enjoy reading your reps and analysis - I would love some feedback on my army if you have any (currently looking at possibly swapping something out for 2-3 biovores...)

Your list is good and balanced. Personally, I've long since stopped using trygons, even back in 5th when plasmas were not as prevalent as they now are here in 6th. Instead, I focus on a slightly more shooty-centric tyranid build with tl-devourers and biovores.

If you want to make your list better, swap out 1 trygon and probably a couple of gargoyles to get 2 biovores and the Doom in a spore. If you want to go really competitive, then you add another flyrant, but play with the units you like and not necessarily with what is more competitive. I think personal playstyle preference is much more important than going with what everyone else tells you you should run.

Hey everyone,

Just so you know I was the Tau player (actually the Tau and Space Wolf player in all of Slices's reports).

Finally stopped being lazy and joined up.
This is my first post on Dakka

There was some criticism of my list. Please keep in mind in was a my first game with the new codex and I was trialing different units. Slice and I play for fun not sheep stations.

Just to adress a few of the questions:

@ gr1m_dan: not saying you are wrong but I find 6 man squads are usefull as they can cover each other with supporting fire. Also when the enevitable hth starts the saturation of units means there are more squads that can still shoot. Surviving is not alwasy good. If the unit lasts 2 combat turns the openent can charge you in their turn avoiding around of shooting. Also the Ethereal has an area affect not just the unit he is with. If you are running with a Firewarrior Comander then a bigger squad would be usefull. Each to there own.

@ jy2 not sure why you are counting the Ethereal as 2 VPs
It wasn't a kill point game. 2 objectives (6 points) + Slay the Worlord (the battle suit commander) (1 point), Line breaker (1 point) and the bonus for the Ethereal (1 point) = 9.

Some (of the many things) I did wrong.
On first turn i only used the Comander's squad (ion pie and missile pods) and the pie plate ion head and Riptide (ion pie again) on the trygon as i wanted to knock of some wounds and the gargoyles infront. The angles of the shots ment the gargoyles came from the sides and i could still hit both. There was also a chance of scattering onto the Hive Guard. Everything else shot at gargoyles or other small things without much luck.

The ion weapons were chosen cause slice does use alot of multi wound nids (warriors and upwards). I was hoping for some ID on warriors and a way past the T6 3+(5+) (with catalyst) multi wound big bugs. These have always been my biggest problem. The rail head helps kill the medium to small nids but i am looking for a way to deal with the medium to big ones. The T9 Flyrant I have encountered twice now and I've still got no idea how to deal with it. The ion weapons were good but were asked to do too much. first turn I should have been multi shooting MC's with them and not using the pie plates. I don't think I used the pie plates after first turn.

The sniper unit was a last choice add in. It looks good on paper with BS5 marker drones and rending sniper guns (and cheep) but I think the unit size needs to be alot bigger and there are better options for the same final costs.

The final turn before all the charges hit home i should have forgotten about holding the objectives and moved back. I think one of the Trygons made are charge on a 10 or 11. It was a very silly oversight.

Another thing I should have done differently is forgotten about taking the pot shots with the devilfish and gone straight for the objective held by the gaunts as this may have pulled a unit out of the main attack.

Also a unit with the interceptor rule would have been useful to deal with those suped up genesteelers. Charging on the turn they arrive is just nasty. (Selecting my list I forgot about them).


I will start a post looking at improving my list but above are a few thoughs. Suggestions are welcome. Cheers for reading and your comments to all of our battles.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
For your suggestions
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/524112.page#5561964

Hi Greater Good,

Looks like you faced a pretty tough list here, and I applaud your decision to try out some new units. Just wanted to give a couple of suggestions and tips (Note: take this all with a grain of salt since I don't have much experience with the new Tau codex. This is mostly from theorycrafting or experience with old Tau that I think carries over pretty well)

I think there were two main problems you had here. The first is that you were pretty static and slightly spread out. This meant that it was easy for the Nids to back you into a corner and start eating you up in assault. Mobility is one of the Tau's greatest strengths and I think lists built around this strength will almost always win out over static gunlines.

The second is that you didn't seem to focus fire very well. You spread wounds onto multiple different MCs rather than focusing on bringing them down one at a time, so that when he got within Assault range most of his units were still alive and kickin'. Range limitations may have contributed to this, which is why I'd suggest tightening up your formation and/or going for a more mobile force.

Some more concrete advice for list building:
I think you definitely need more crisis suits. They still seem to be our bread and butter and are probably your best option for taking down TMCs. I would recommend probably another squad of 3, though splitting them up into 3x2 squads is also pretty solid and gives you more flexibility.

I'd definitely consider mounting up more of your fire warriors in devilfish - it gives you mobility, protection, and means you have less of a "base" that you need to protect. Although you like small squads, bigger squads are probably preferable since it means you have to buy fewer devilish (which are very expensive for what they bring to the table). I would suggest something more like 2x11 FW squads in Devilfish + Ethereal. A mobile, deadly firebase you can shield from assaults with devilfish and their gun drones.

I'm not sure about Broadsides anymore. With the nerf to their railguns I think Hammereads may be the better Heavy Support choice, and I plan on taking two in all 1500 point games. I'd especially consider dropping them if you have a Riptide for Anti-Air. Sniper drones also seem iffy, though I'd be curious to see how a large unit fares against a MC-heavy list.

P.S.: Apologies for the long-windedness, I'm procrastinating the heck out of an essay I have to write for school.

Greater Good wrote:

@ jy2 not sure why you are counting the Ethereal as 2 VPs
It wasn't a kill point game. 2 objectives (6 points) + Slay the Worlord (the battle suit commander) (1 point), Line breaker (1 point) and the bonus for the Ethereal (1 point) = 9.

My bad then. I thought he was worth 2 VP's if he was your Warlord, at least that was what my Tau opponent told me. Didn't realize it was only in VP games.

Both lists where ok, its just that idd Trygons are always being targetted with the plas/melta stuff.
Jy2's competitive and accurate advice to aside, I would play the Doom in a pod, he is just such a beast!

 jy2 wrote:

Greater Good wrote:

@ jy2 not sure why you are counting the Ethereal as 2 VPs
It wasn't a kill point game. 2 objectives (6 points) + Slay the Worlord (the battle suit commander) (1 point), Line breaker (1 point) and the bonus for the Ethereal (1 point) = 9.

My bad then. I thought he was worth 2 VP's if he was your Warlord, at least that was what my Tau opponent told me. Didn't realize it was only in VP games.

Hmmm, maybe it is only in VP games. That would be nice!

@ jy2: Thanks for the advice. The main reason I have the double trygons is because I just love the model (also helps that the unit is pretty good too!) I am interested in playing around with biovores though, as it gives me a way of threatening infantry early game (in addition to the flyrant). DoM is also a very fun unit to play around with, so I might try swapping out the trygon for Bio's and the Doom in my next game...

Regarding the VP and the Ethereal - our understanding of this was as follows:

The Ethereal is worth an additional VP if killed.
As he chose his Crisis suit leader as his warlord, this means the Ethereal is worth 1 VP, and his warlord is worth 1VP. (The Ethereal would have been worth 2 if he was also the warlord)

Thus 9 VPs for 2 objectives (6), The non-warlord Ethereal (1), The Warlord Crisis Suit (1), and linebreaker (1).

Please let us know if we have mis-calculated this (and why) as it will be useful for future games.

Thanks for the responces

@ jy2: Your friend is correct the Ethereal is worth 2 if he is the warlord (1 for Slay the warlord and 1 cause it is an Ethereal).
Mine wasn't my warlord. In KP games the Ethereal could be worth up to 3 points (1 for the kill, 1 for Slay the warlord (if he is) and 1 cause it is an Ethereal).

@General_Tso: Hope you got your assignment done.
I was trying for 2 fire bases and yes you are correct in that I didn't move anywhere near enough.
Believe it or not I did focus fire each turn on the priority MC. It is just I didn't manage to bring them down. I should have just kept hitting the same one and accepted that a few would get through. Also I couldn't see the flyrant first turn.

I agree with the Broadsides as well. The S reduction and only one shot makes them a bit iffy. The Missile-sides are tempting... with Early Warning Override would make genestealers panic! I wonder how much damage they would do to a TMC as they would still have a 3+ save. i might be giving units too many roles as well... And its alot of points.

Guessing that leaves the riptide for flyers and TMC duties (interceptor)...what do people think? Ion gun or Heavy burst?


Thats the trouble with Tau so many things to shoot and so many guns to do it with....

So we are not high-jacking this thread the bottom of my last post has a link to an army list page if you want to add comments.

Cheers and Happy Gaming!

On paper the heavy burst looks excellent, but I still haven't assembled my own riptide yet!

 slice'n'dice wrote:

My List:
Flyrant - 2 x TL devs
HG x2
Ymgarls x5
Troop tervy x2 - catalyst, TS, AG
2 x gants x10
Gargoyles x19
Trygon x2 - TS

His list from memory:
Ethereal
Leader suit ionblaster / missiles
Crisis suits x3 - Plasma/missiles
Riptide - ion cannon / plasma / skyfire
3 x fire warriors x6 (leaders with marker lights)
fire warriors x6 (carbines and devilfish)
Pathfinders x6
Sniper drones (4x drones, 2x spotters)
Ion-head
Broadsides x2 - skyfire, missiles, rail rifles

Battrep to follow - in the meantime - vote for what you think will happen.

Posting this Reply before reading the thread.

(Assumptions: Nids go first)

Turn 1:
I expect 'Nids to move up the table and the Flyrant utilizes jump ability to find cover and move up the synapse coverage with the 'goyles move with the flyrant to give cover.

The Devilfish holds back and checks for obj's while the 3 FW teams form up a Firing line with the ethereal and the sniper spotters behind and the drones jumping over to fire then jump back. The pathfinders scout ahead and find cover then light up the nearest MC/synapse creature for the Railsides. If the Riptide and Cv8's are held in reserve then nothing of note from them but the Ionheads overcharged blast template will punished the hordes.

Turn 2:
The Ymgarls and TS try to come in and at least one succeeds behind the Tau Firing line. Depending on who comes in the focus will be on either the ethereal or the ionhead. The flyrant and 'goyles move up and try to charge a FW squad with Gaunts shooting then assaulting (some dying in the overwatch) the FW squad will lose Assault. While the Tervigon (aka Big Momma's) will move to obj's and the HG will find a nice hide hole and fire at the nearest Tau unit (ideally the ionhead or the railsides.

Tau depending on reserve rolls will bring in either the Cv8's or the Riptide in the back field of the Nids and shoot up one of the Tervigons. The Tau in response will target the MC's to put some wounds on them with help from the Pathfinders.Then proceed to move any free FW's away from Assaults (if possible) while firing on any other gaunts that may be too close. Any surviving Assaults will either tie or resolve in Nid favor.

Turn 3+
Depending on what comes in the remaining reserves will alpha strike on targets of priority while the Big Momma's kick out some tarpit gaunts for the back field defense and the Flytyrant harasses the commander suit and the 'goyles die like the meat shield with poison attacks that they are. Tau will try to respond and will good rolls may take down a few of the MC's but in the end will be swept under the waves of Assault.