Grimdark documents (formerly 40k in 40 pages)

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**rabid1903**

In this post are all the documents for the new version of 40k called Grimdark that Dast, Lanrak, and I have been working on. The rules for 40k were becoming unwieldy and didn't represent combat the way we felt it should. This is a total redo of the rules from the ground up. The goal is to be totally independent of the 40k rules, so please read in a vacuum. Be warned, it is rough and I am sure I have not caught all the typos.

Previously, the rulebook was titled 40k in 40 pages. This is not a lengthy rulebook at all, and neither are any of the codices. Rest assured, they are filled to the brim with rules that are intuitive (e.g. the daemons codex has rules for 26 units in 15 pages, and all rulebook special rules are covered in a single page.)

Please feel welcome to comment in either post, we will frequently check both and any input will help. Play testing is especially appreciated, with the goal of being a balanced and fun game.

**chrisrawr**

If anyone wants to test this out on Vassal, I'm available from 215PM PST to 415PM PST

**rabid1903**

Is this testable on Vassal? I'm afraid I've never done anything there and am unfamiliar with it; I didn't think homebrew was an option there.

*edit: grammar

**chrisrawr**

Vassal only provides sprites; everything else is up to you. There's lots of tokens and counters that can be used, as well as a 'secret' notepad you can reveal to your opponents.

**rabid1903**

That's fantastic!

I'll have to give it a shot here soon, I'll download it but I don't think I can play today. However, I do have a couple buddies who'll be very interested in this.

**junk**

I'm really impressed by the system redesign.

I'm working on a system for a d10 40k conversion, and also trying to come up with a universal valuation scheme for points.
I like the idea of defensive and offensive stats being separate values.

One of the idea's I'm kicking around is to remove defensive stats entirely to speed up gameplay. How has your comparative defensive statistic affected game speed in combat resolution?

**rabid1903**

Comparing people learning this new system to people learning normal 40k, it is considerably faster. If not actually taking less time, the game flows much faster as you are always doing something.

It'll take a few people who are very familiar with this to play test it enough times before I can give you a really good answer. My hunch though is it will continue to speed up. Once people have learned their armies and the tricks to speed rolling combat can be resolved very quickly.

**Kid_Kyoto**

You might want to clarify the title, ie "Formally 40k in 40 pages" or something.

I admire your decision to strike away though, originality for the win!

**rabid1903**

I see what you mean, I'll change that to see if it helps people find this thread.

Thanks for the compliment

**rabid1903**

Big update:

The first draft of the Space Marines codex is done! Obviously it is going to be very rough and be quite different from the 40k version, but let me know what you think.

**chrisrawr**

Is the Machine trait balanced? Armies consisting heavily of Terminators with AV8 seems like trouble, especially with how cheap you can supply them.

In other news, I'm available to playtest this over Vassal any time after 8:30AM PST tomorrow.

**rabid1903**

I've been trying to find a good tutorial for Vassal, but no luck. I've got the whole day tomorrow; if you're willing to hop on Skype we can definitely play.

There's so much in this codex that balance is going to be very very difficult. I hadn't thought about the combination of Machine with Terminators. However, I'm not sure how much stronger they'll actually be. Terminators die easier in this version than normal 40k; though so does everything else (this is a very bloody game.)

**chrisrawr**

Still, 150 points for 5 AV8 models seems to be a steal, compared to some things like a Crisis Suit team, or a tervigon.

Also, I noticed in the Tau armory, a couple of weapons had range 3" -- Burst cannon and Airburts Frag, specifically. Intentional?

**rabid1903**

Thank you for pointing those out, I've spent so much time working on these that I can't catch typos anymore haha.

I'll fix those real quick.

So do you think that I should remove the AV bonus, and instead put something like they're immune to Bane (Mechanical)?

Lastly, which armies would you like to test tomorrow? I'm game for any of them and am curious if you have any preferences. I think we should play with 1500 points, as that is what I'm trying to balance it for.

**chrisrawr**

I'll probably be playing Tau as per my preference. I'd say let it roll at AV+1 until we see how it works.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, where's the Target Acquired rule for Tau

?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'll be running a list something like this:

Ethereal - 50
- Honor Blade

2 Crisis Suit - 60
-2 M+2 - 80
-4 Fusion Blasters - 140
-Shas'vre - 150
x6 = 900

11 Firewarriors - 99
- Pulse Rifles
x2 = 198

2 Broadside - 160
-2 Heavy Rail Rifles
-2 Plasma Rifle - 170
x2 = 340

if I've got that right, it gives me 2 scoring units, 6 deepstriking bastards that should be able to slap down most of a squad each per turn, and 2 big units of mop-up. This list might struggle with horde, but I should be able to JSJ and Zephyr my way out of any difficulties, especially with Mv 8 on the suits.

I lied. I'll be taking Space Marines, with a Commander and 8 units of Devastators, full of Plasma Cannons - with the no-gets-hot-+-accurate rules.

tl;dr I think Plasma and Melta are now severely undercosted for what they do. Having a meltagun makes you the boss, and Crisis Suits can be taken in spades, with tonnes of meltaguns.

**rabid1903**

Yah that was pretty painful. They definitely need to be rebalanced.

Also, I'm going to get rid of the Accurate trait for the Lion. I think just removing Gets Hot will make them very good.

**chrisrawr**

Yeah, plasma all day all the time would be ERRRM.

Melta could use a points pop-up.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Battle Report!

Rabid and I managed to get part-ways through a game, which will continue sometime soon.

The game is anyone's at the moment - I'm unable to truly damage his GORRAM psykers because of their Last Chance saves - 4+ has succeeded for him 10/12 times so far.

My initial reaction is that shooting and assault are both far more deadly - ESPECIALLY when you've gotten the charge, which grants Strikes First. Shooting - especially Melta shooting - is preposterously powerful. Crisis Suits with 2 meltas come in at 60 points, and can reliably disintegrate most enemies.

The Ethereal in particular is an amazing snag. I think I'll be running an army with 2 in a future game to try out some tactics.

A few small rules glitches and issues to be worked out arose, as well as some missing rules for topics. The game plays a lot faster-paced and a lot more dynamically than regular 40k, and it feels much more interesting overall.

Spoiler:

**rabid1903**

Chrisrawr is going to be putting up the final battle report soon, but here are some conclusions from the play test:

1. Holy crap melta is strong. Waaaaaaay too strong. It's been toned down from Multi-Wound (3) to Multi-Wound (1).

2. Shooting in general packs more of a punch, but movement is much faster--leading to more frequent assaults (2nd turn is standard.) The real damage in assault comes from Morale, which brings me to:

3. Morale I think is working very well. It is very easy to fail leadership checks, and being routed is painful due to acting very last.

Next up, I'm going to be running Marines. I'm not sure what type yet, but I have a pretty strong hunch on it. I'll post the list that I used for my Tyranids soon, it was a pretty fluffy list.

**chrisrawr**

A note on Close Combat: I'm not quite sure on a few things involving it yet, and will be testing out some abuse cases in the next game.

I'll also be testing some abuse cases for... other things. >

**rabid1903**

Something I'm strongly considering is adding a "chosen" ability to each of the Traits of the Primarch. These would be used in order to make your commander into the special characters that are currently in the codex.

For instance:
Raven would give +1 to their Stealth value
Blood would give +2 MV
Knight would make Thunder Hammers Str 10
Flame would move the +3" template range to this instead of being default
Stallion would give Outflank

Those are just some examples I was thinking of for the loyalist side of things. Chaos might be a bit harder, but I have some thoughts there too:

Heretic trait would change to allowing any marine unit to become Chosen. The Chosen trait we'd have to come up with though.
Plague would add Bane to all close combat attacks.
Terror would allow charges in Green.
Siege would allow Devastator weapons to be bought.
Berserker would remove Always Strike Last from chain axes and power axes.
Sorcerer would add an additional +1 Psyker Level.
Fanatic would grant Last Chance (5+)
Trickster would gain +2 to their Deny the Witch roll.

Not sure, kind of just vomiting information onto the computer so I remember it later.

**la'DunX**

So what's up with the Mont'ka and Kauyon traits? and what is a trait?

**rabid1903**

Those should all be explained pretty well in the rulebook. Look in the Planning Your Army section.

If I need to explain rules on the forums, that means the rulebook is faulty. So if you have any questions as to what things are, please let me know and I will edit the rulebook.

**chrisrawr**

The "Traits" area was found quite easily in my case, but due to the importance of armybuilding, that section could come first in the rulebook.

I've been playing some abuse-cases off against myself in the meanwhile, and I definitely think that some psyker powers should require the use of green/yellow/red activations.

Most notably, the Pavane of Slaanesh; with a greater daemon and 2 princes, the Pavane can be cast on 6 units a turn; automatic routing from turn 2 forward followed by 3 large, scary monsters running right into the front lines of whatever's left. Yikes.

**rabid1903**

Hmm... Interesting...

Something that I've pretty strongly considered doing was making malidictions require a Red Counter, with their effects lasting until the end of the next Action Phase. This would simultaneously allow your units to move into position and use it on the targets they want to hit most, but also need a counter to use.

What do you think about that?

**chrisrawr**

Seems legit. most shooting/barrier powers should require a green counter to use as well, and any morale powers should also require a counter.

**rabid1903**

Big update:

I've been thinking a lot more about the traits, and here is a revamp I hope you like (balance issues I'm sure are present):

*note: 1st line is for Traits of the Firstborn. 2nd line is for Chosen (they keep the first line too).

Loyalist (also gain ATSKNF)

Spoiler:

Traitor (also gain Fearless)

Spoiler:

**chrisrawr**

Any news on this?

**rabid1903**

Unfortunately I haven't had the time to get back into this recently. Don't worry, I haven't forgotten about it or abandoned it.

Codex rebalance my biggest speed bump now. I'm going to dial it back and focus on a few codices. First up will be my Tyranids, followed by Tau, then Daemons, and finally Marines after their new codex comes out.

I really need at least one other person to do some serious scouring of each codex and point out the things that seem unbalanced or any combinations that would be broken. That's a pretty tall order to ask of someone that's not as invested in the game as myself.

**chrisrawr**

I was just making sure it wasnt dead; I'm going to be playing some small IRL battles with my girlfriend and her sister over the next couple weeks, so we'll probably use this; I just need to start on an Imperial Guard codex for it.

**Mezmerro**

Please, upload pdf version of rulebook.
As and old MSOffice version user and I cannot open .docx