Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I for one have been very pleased about a lot of the changes going on at GW. Kevin Rowntree has really turned the boat around since Captain Titanic himself, Tom Kirby relegated himself to back seat driver.

This latest trading update really highlights how much the company was being held back by absolutely bonkers decisions (Visions anyone?).

The operating profit for the half year is on course to be more than double the previous year (£13 million compared to £6.2 million). A remarkable turn around.

Probably about 10 percent due to the drop in the pound and maybe less (pound is down roughly 15 percent) . Operating profit is up about 110 percent!

http://investor.games-workshop.com/2016/12/01/trading-update-5/

That is a substantial increase. Noticeably more profit in this 6month period than the entirety of last year. I hope that start collecting sets and boxed games sold very well. If Gw can take the message that people want more of that sort of thing then gwvand it's customers can both have a very good future.

Funny how listening to customers and making them happy works out...

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Funny how listening to customers and making them happy works out...

Absolutely, I've been loving so much of what GW has done this year from the bundles to reviving old factions. AoS even got me to start a fantasy miniatures game which I never would have even considered back during the WHFB days.

Yet I'm sure as soon as tomorrow we will see the same crowd of vocal individuals on Dakka show up to insist these results are either a fluke or misrepresentation by GW. Clearly AoS, over-designed minis, Kharn being too expensive, and non-tournament worthy rules are only days away from killing GW...

Jack Flask wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Funny how listening to customers and making them happy works out...

Absolutely, and yet I'm sure as soon as tomorrow we will see the same crowd of vocal individuals on Dakka show up to insist these results are either a fluke or misrepresentation by GW. Clearly AoS, over-designed minis, Kharn being too expensive, and non-tournament worthy rules are only days away from killing GW...

Would you prefer a return to the same crowd who used to defend the old Kirby business practices?

To paraphrase what I said in another thread:

When looking at constant currency both profit and sales is up from last year. We won't know by how much until the more detailed report is out in January. My guess is it won't be by as much as their profit suggests.

I imagine that the weak pound makes up for a lot more than a 10% increase in their profit (maybe 10% of their turnover, though we don't know by how much that is up) Most of GW's sales are abroad so the exchange rate will be a big boost to them.

Now to just make some decent rules for 40k and that profit can be even larger...

Joyboozer wrote:

Jack Flask wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Funny how listening to customers and making them happy works out...

Absolutely, and yet I'm sure as soon as tomorrow we will see the same crowd of vocal individuals on Dakka show up to insist these results are either a fluke or misrepresentation by GW. Clearly AoS, over-designed minis, Kharn being too expensive, and non-tournament worthy rules are only days away from killing GW...

Would you prefer a return to the same crowd who used to defend the old Kirby business practices?

I just edited my post to expand my thoughts in a way more relevant to the topic, so my bad for making your quote of me look off.

Honestly though your question a clear example of "false dilemma". The alternative to rubbing the mindless haters' noses in it doesn't have to also involve accepting delusional fanboys.

But really, I can't think of many examples of actual delusional fanboys on Dakka (I know there were some), but honestly in the last couple of years there have been a lot of instances of people being called "rabid fanboys" simply for saying they didn't outright hate whatever GW was at the time releasing.

The launch of AoS was a perfect example where if you didn't vocally denounce the game you were called a shill and insinuated to be some form of mentally stunted (I remember that quite personally). Even now you can still see certain posters make slights about the intelligence level of AoS players.

Tell me, when were the actual delusional fanboys ever that bad?

El Torro wrote:
To paraphrase what I said in another thread:

When looking at constant currency both profit and sales is up from last year. We won't know by how much until the more detailed report is out in January. My guess is it won't be by as much as their profit suggests.

I imagine that the weak pound makes up for a lot more than a 10% increase in their profit (maybe 10% of their turnover, though we don't know by how much that is up) Most of GW's sales are abroad so the exchange rate will be a big boost to them.

UK sales were roughly 50 percent of total operating profit when the financial report was split into regions (2013 financial report).

Jack Flask wrote:
But really, I can't think of many examples of actual delusional fanboys on Dakka (I know there were some), but honestly in the last couple of years there have been a lot of instances of people being called "rabid fanboys" simply for saying they didn't outright hate whatever GW was at the time releasing.

Go read Talis' posts during the Kirby years.

I'm actually happy to hear that. I've been really impressed with the Turn around with GW, and started to show it by using my wallet. I've made a pretty big purchase with the Thousand Sons release, and if they keep up the good work I will become a full fledged customer again.

 Sasori wrote:
I'm actually happy to hear that. I've been really impressed with the Turn around with GW, and started to show it by using my wallet. I've made a pretty big purchase with the Thousand Sons release, and if they keep up the good work I will become a full fledged customer again.

Exactly. I gladly returned to buy GW's products since their change of attitude. Voting with my wallet works in both ways, and it's good to support something that feels really nice.

More money for GW means more projects in the future. And that is a good thing for the miniature market as a whole.

Yeah, I've liked a lot of the changes at GW lately, and it's great that these positive changes are met with success - sends GW a good message.

Khârn's price IS bonkers, though, as are many new-ish clampack chars. Sadly. Seeing people ready to buy all bundles that are roughly 50% off, in some cases after years of not buying, seema to indicate that price IS a detractor to many potential sales. It is for me.


Can't say that I don't like GW getting positive feedback where it counts dor a company after the releases this year. The course change was a good start, so keep walking that path and maybe good things happen for both company and cuatomers.

 Binabik15 wrote:
Khârn's price IS bonkers, though, as are many new-ish clampack chars. Sadly. Seeing people ready to buy all bundles that are roughly 50% off, in some cases after years of not buying, seema to indicate that price IS a detractor to many potential sales. It is for me.


Can't say that I don't like GW getting positive feedback where it counts dor a company after the releases this year. The course change was a good start, so keep walking that path and maybe good things happen for both company and cuatomers.

They appear to be aware of the fact price is a factor, which is why the Start Collecting and Battleforces even exist. Which is actually kind of genius. They are tricking someone who thinks $40 is too much into spending $85 or $170.

Other than killing off Warhammer Fantasy they have done a great job recently. Age of Crapmar is nothing compared to the power house of 40k.

 pities2004 wrote:
Other than killing off Warhammer Fantasy they have done a great job recently. Age of Crapmar is nothing compared to the power house of 40k.

Yeah, watch out. You're about to be swarmed by people proclaiming literally one person in the world played WHFB and that without AoS they'd never have played it, when really it was because of Sigmarines.

Hopefully they learn from this and realise that, gasp, listening to your damn fanbase is going to endear them to buy your products. Hopefully they don't get too overconfident but keep on the path. More balanced 40k rules? Maybe even an olive branch to WHFB players? In one way, it's nice to see the turn around. In another, I'm still so bitter over WHFB that I cannot in good conscience still buy a Games Workshop product. Traitor Legions sounds like a good start, but if they actually make 8th something half-decent I'll consider forking over some money and I doubt that I'm the only one.

I really hope that no one bought Kharn. In a time when GW does seem to be paying attention it is more important than ever to vote with your wallet.

I certainly hope their new way gets rewarded with better profits. They have done a huge amount over the last year to get back to engaging with the customer in a fun way as well as releasing some real crowd pleasers with updated factions of yesteryear.

Chikout wrote:
I really hope that no one bought Kharn. In a time when GW does seem to be paying attention it is more important than ever to vote with your wallet.

the problem is that if no one buys the new Khârn, GW will be disinclined to make new models of characters. And I wouldn't mind seeing new versions of some of the old Finecast characters.

Is your problem with Khârn the price or the model itself?

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
They appear to be aware of the fact price is a factor, which is why the Start Collecting and Battleforces even exist.

If that were true then the this sort of crap wouldn't be the case:

UK
Deathwing Terminators - £35
Scarab Occult Terminators - £35 (+0% over DW Terminators)
Cataphractii Terminators - £40 (114% over DW Terminators)

Oz
Deathwing Terminators - $90 (equivalent to £52, which is 142% of the UK price)
Scarab Occult Terminators - $115 (127% over Oz DW Terminator price, equivalent to £67, or 191% the cost of the UK price)
Cataphractii Terminators - $135 (150% over DW Terminators, equivalent to £79, or 197% the cost of the UK price)

How does this make any sense? Putting out a box with a discount does -not- make up for this. How can they be 'aware' that price is a factor when they don't even see the difference between local markets don't make sense. How can Cataphractii's be 14% more expensive than a Deathwing Terminator box in the UK (£35 vs £40) and 50% more expensive than the same product in Oz ($90 vs $135), and that's ignoring the fact that Oz price is already nearly 150-200% the cost of the UK price.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Chikout wrote:
I really hope that no one bought Kharn. In a time when GW does seem to be paying attention it is more important than ever to vote with your wallet.

the problem is that if no one buys the new Khârn, GW will be disinclined to make new models of characters. And I wouldn't mind seeing new versions of some of the old Finecast characters.

Is your problem with Khârn the price or the model itself?

The model is fine but nothing special. It is a similar size to all the other hero minis. You are paying an extra £4 over the already expensive hero minis just for the name. Ahriman is only £3 more for two sprues each of which is bigger than the Kharn sprue. High prices is one thing but the pricing logic makes no sense as H.B.M.C pointed out. Kharn is a human sized hero so price him the same as all the other human sized heroes.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
They appear to be aware of the fact price is a factor, which is why the Start Collecting and Battleforces even exist.

If that were true then the this sort of crap wouldn't be the case:

UK
Deathwing Terminators - £35
Scarab Occult Terminators - £35 (+0% over DW Terminators)
Cataphractii Terminators - £40 (114% over DW Terminators)

Oz
Deathwing Terminators - $90 (equivalent to £52, which is 142% of the UK price)
Scarab Occult Terminators - $115 (127% over Oz DW Terminator price, equivalent to £67, or 191% the cost of the UK price)
Cataphractii Terminators - $135 (150% over DW Terminators, equivalent to £79, or 197% the cost of the UK price)

How does this make any sense? Putting out a box with a discount does -not- make up for this. How can they be 'aware' that price is a factor when they don't even see the difference between local markets don't make sense. How can Cataphractii's be 14% more expensive than a Deathwing Terminator box in the UK (£35 vs £40) and 50% more expensive than the same product in Oz ($90 vs $135), and that's ignoring the fact that Oz price is already nearly 150-200% the cost of the UK price.

Their conversion rates are whack admittedly but it has nothing to do with his post. If they offer discounts people will more likely buy them.

Oz prices have always been a little nutty but that's not the point.

As with all things the devil is in the detail. This comment

However, the Board is aware that it is still early in the 2017 financial year and that there are a number of challenging trading periods ahead.

makes me think things aren't quite as rosy as the profit figures might initially suggest as they are setting up the market for weaker growth later on.

I could postulate that it is the bulk box sets (and getting started) might be doing well, but there could still be issues pushing out the new individual boxes of models. That's an issue as it could effectively be cannibalising sales of the higher, newer, capital cost models. It might look in the short term; but medium to long term it could cause issues.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Funny how listening to customers and making them happy works out...

I know right . I've actually started buying GW again (30K) and hadn't in forever!

 Whirlwind wrote:
As with all things the devil is in the detail. This comment

However, the Board is aware that it is still early in the 2017 financial year and that there are a number of challenging trading periods ahead.

makes me think things aren't quite as rosy as the profit figures might initially suggest as they are setting up the market for weaker growth later on.

I could postulate that it is the bulk box sets (and getting started) might be doing well, but there could still be issues pushing out the new individual boxes of models. That's an issue as it could effectively be cannibalising sales of the higher, newer, capital cost models. It might look in the short term; but medium to long term it could cause issues.

My feeling is that is more related to who knows where Brexit is going in the next year, rather than any other indicator.

Honestly they needed to make the cash this period. In the second half of the year youve got your worst months outside of december for GW. The good thing is that with this kind of movement they can shift 40k 8th into q1 of next year and won't need it to bolster numbers this year.

We'll see how it all looks with the final financials but without massive operation changes to point to for maintaining profitability and doubling last year's profit to this point they might actually have move more product this time around.

Speaking of Brexit, the pound taking a beating could account for a chunk of the profit, if the majority of the sales came from outside the UK, at non adjusted prices.

 His Master's Voice wrote:
Speaking of Brexit, the pound taking a beating could account for a chunk of the profit, if the majority of the sales came from outside the UK, at non adjusted prices.

They say directly that they have seen strong growth in sales in constant currency terms, I.e. before the benefits of the weak pound are calculated.

To me, the concern is how sustainable this is. GW has released a lot of stuff in the past year or so. While we know that more is to come (specialist games, maybe more 40K primarchs, 8th edition, etc.), how much longer before the train starts to lose steam?