Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Herr Dexter wrote:I just realised something...

There were those rumors about Necron walker that looks like a giant skelton with crystal suspended in it's chest, right?
And yet - the walker with Heat Ray turns out to be a Pretorian riding a Mechano-Scorpion not aforementioned Skelton.

What if that's the model for... C'than Shard?

Bare with me - they can't just make some freeky crossbreed between Deciever and Nightbringer as that would seem stupid and out of place. They need something matching new line of Necrons and something that will put some emphasis on the fact C'thans are now but slaves to the Necronthyr... What do you say?

Seems reasonable... C'Tan Shards... gem in the chest. may be a connection.
I'm hoping that the new C'tan Shards are something that you can make customize to a great extent but doesn't scream WYSIWYG... something more... subtle would be good.

not sure if this has been brought up yet, looking at the picture of the standard (presumably finecast, maybe plastic in a similar vein to the fantasy characters) overlord, there is an inset (that the correct term) picture just above, you cant see it in the actual BoW picture, but in the video it is clearer, seems to be an option holding a res orb... make of this what you will, but maybe overlords can still use res orbs, that or maybe its not an inset pic for that lord (highly doubt this) but instead an inset for a criptek?

EDIT: just realised the plastic overlord (from the command barge) is holding a res orb, so maybe I overlooked something and lords CAN have res orbs... but atleast I noticed that the other overlord has options =3

I hadn't seen/heard that their transports were that that expensive! Wow! Hope that's not true. That would certainly cramp my plans of transports full of crons led by a cryptek with res orb regenerating lol Also just because its pictured with a bunch of necron in it doesn't mean they'll come NIB like that. It could be something they put together to look pretty for the white dwarf spread. It's possible they come with it. I remain skeptical. I believe it when I get the box it if confirmed by kroothawk or yakface.

l0k1 wrote:I hadn't seen/heard that their transports were that that expensive! Wow! Hope that's not true. That would certainly cramp my plans of transports full of crons led by a cryptek with res orb regenerating lol Also just because its pictured with a bunch of necron in it doesn't mean they'll come NIB like that. It could be something they put together to look pretty for the white dwarf spread. It's possible they come with it. I remain skeptical. I believe it when I get the box it if confirmed by kroothawk or yakface.

I don't think there's any precedent at all for them adding random models into vehicles for their ad pictures. There's no chance that those crossed armed Warriors aren't in the box IMO.

Death By Monkeys wrote:

Ascalam wrote:Of course they'll need transports Vodding will probably be expensive and unreliable. I've had lousy luck Vodding anyway..

They've nerfed our wall of invulnerability, and the meta is transports transports transports, because they can charge a fortune for them

I would like to field a classic Liths, Warriors and scarabs army though, like the current codex cover art.

You can do that now, of course, but it doesn't last long..

If the transports turn out to be 120 pts on the low side and 200 pts on the high, then I suspect that Vodding will be the cheaper option. I'll be curious to see if they've loosened up the restrictions around VoD to let you come up with some fun chain-VoD tricks.

I don't think the Transports will go past the 120 point range.

It looks like, You may need two Ghost Arks, just for staying power. While they are expensive, you do get a lot out of them.

-2 Sets of 5 Flayers, which can be fired at different targets
-AV13 With Quantum shielding is pretty huge, should help keep those transports alive until you can eliminate the threats to them.
-Skimmer
-Can Recover D3 worth of Warriors, every movement phase.
-Living Metal

Overall, While expensive, this Transport does things that no other transport in the game does. I don't think you'll need very many of them, but I think having two can make it very hard for anyone to claim an objective from you.

I also believe the Nightscythe will probably be fairly cheaper than the Ghost Ark, but hopefully with the ability to take a large variety (Including Anti-Tank) Weapons.

I think Quantum Shielding is overrated. I really don't see it lasting past the first turn or two.

Fetterkey wrote:I think Quantum Shielding is overrated. I really don't see it lasting past the first turn or two.

If you have an Entire Army, with the AV13 to start out, it's pretty significant. Sure, the first turn or two a few vehicles will lose it, but hopefully that should be enough time to deal with the Major threats.

Of course we'll have to see the Codex, and it's performance on the tabletop before final judgements are made

Fetterkey wrote:I think Quantum Shielding is overrated. I really don't see it lasting past the first turn or two.

I'm in agreement here. That's why I'm trying not to think of these as 13/13/13 vehicles. And even if they are for the first couple turns, they're still open-topped.

As far as points costs go, IIRC, the quote of 120 pts for the Ghost Ark and 150 pts for the Night Scythe were from Yakface or BoK, can't remember which.

Quantum Shielding might also only be for the front and side armor. The first time Yakface brought it up it didn't do anything for rear armor and the second time he didn't specify.

I think the quantum shielding will be better for the doomsday ark and annihilation barge, both of which can sit back further. Anything that is going to advance will lose the save quickly.

Personally I want to know more about the triarch stalker. A walker with a least 2 multi-melta shots and stuff hit become twin-linked for everything else sounds great. As long as there is target saturation it should live awhile too.

I wonder if you can take them in squads. It would be real cool if they were 'fast walkers' now that would be unique.

Death By Monkeys wrote:

Fetterkey wrote:I think Quantum Shielding is overrated. I really don't see it lasting past the first turn or two.

I'm in agreement here. That's why I'm trying not to think of these as 13/13/13 vehicles. And even if they are for the first couple turns, they're still open-topped.

As far as points costs go, IIRC, the quote of 120 pts for the Ghost Ark and 150 pts for the Night Scythe were from Yakface or BoK, can't remember which.

I heard the Ballpark points cost for the Ghost Ark from Yak, but I haven't read anything about points cost for the Night Scythe. He Mentioned the Doomscythe was right under 200 points though.


And Vhalyer, I have to agree with you. I'm pretty sure the rear armor is going to remain at the standard 10, for the vehicles with QS.

Please do not spam the forum. Thanks! ~Manchu

peebzguy wrote:

KilroyKiljoy wrote:

Proiteus wrote:Looking forward to reading the rules, anyway I'll let my signature speak for itself.

Stealin' your sig.

Stealing the sig that you stole.

Stolen +1

Fetterkey wrote:I think Quantum Shielding is overrated. I really don't see it lasting past the first turn or two.

If you have fast vehicles, and haven't gotten where you need to be by turn 2, you're doing it wrong.

If you field so few vehicles that every kill matters, you're also doing it wrong.

Not to mention the cover save as a reassurance by flat out speed; IIRC, I think they can even fire all their weapons when in Cruising Speed.

Moopy wrote:

Fetterkey wrote:I think Quantum Shielding is overrated. I really don't see it lasting past the first turn or two.

If you have fast vehicles, and haven't gotten where you need to be by turn 2, you're doing it wrong.

If you field so few vehicles that every kill matters, you're also doing it wrong.

Are they listed as skimmers, or fast skimmers? Big difference, there, no zooming-cover saves on an AV13 barge (which would indeed make them more survivable than raiders and venoms x10) unless they're fast. Tau devilfish have that same problem - 80 points for a 12/11/10 skimmer, but it's not Fast, so no boosting.

I am very stoked right now. I have 300.00 in store credit and I know exactly where it is going :^)

I am assuming the ghost ark while open topped does not allow the passengers to fire. And that those gauss flayers are meant to make up for that. I just have a hard time believing the vehicle will be allowed to throw out 40 rapid fire shots. Perhaps yak can comment. (Then again the people inside can just get out and fire their 20 shots so I suppose it isn't much of a difference.)

Okay, let's add a few more points of clarity for a few units:


Crypteks vs. (basic) Lords in the 'Royal Court': both have more like squad leader stats then character stats (1 wound each for example) with both of their base points are in the exact same range as an IG Commissar, for example. However, all of the upgrades for these guys clock in the 5 to 45 point range (each option) with probably a 15 point median for their gear, so you can imagine that these guys will very quickly eat up your points if you give them many (or any) upgrades.

The Lords have access to 4 Weapon upgrade options (Warschythe, Gauntlet of Fire, Hyperphase Sword & Voidblade) and 5 wargear-esque options (Sempirternal Weaev, Mindshackle Scarabs, Tesseract labyrinth, Ressurection Orb & Phase Shifter). Of all those weapons and upgrades only the Rez Orb benefits the unit. The rest of the upgrades just give the Lord extra benefits in combat or armor save.

So really, if you're looking to make the Lord improve a unit by leading it, besides adding some CC punch to the unit your only real choice is the Rez Orb and the Rez Orb is on the high end of the points scale for their wargear so it isn't exactly a steal to get a Rez Orb into a unit (which for those who aren't keeping up boosts their Resurrection Protocols to a 4+).

Crypteks can be taken plain jane if you wanted (with only a Staff of Light), but if you want to upgrade them at all, then you have to select a 'discipline' that they follow. There are five disciplines to pick from and each one costs some amount of points to take, with the only benefit being that you get an upgraded weapon instead of the staff of light that fits into that discipline's role.

The 5 Disciplines are: Harbinger of Destruction (described as 'plasmancers', weapon is Eldritch Lance, wargear choices are Gaze of Flame & Solar Pulse), Harbinger of Eternity (able to read the future, weapon is Aeonstave, weargear choices are Chronometron & Timesplinter Cloak), Harbinger of Transmogrification (described as 'geomancers', weapon is Harp of Dissonance, options are Seismic Cruicble & Tremorstave), Harbringer of the Storm (described as 'ethermancers', weapon is Voltaic Staff, options are Ether Crystal & Lightning Field) & Harbringer of Despair (described as 'psychomancers', weapon is Abyssal Staff, options are Nightmare Shroud & Veil of Darkness).

Now, once you've chosen a discipline to upgrade to, you're allowed to give the Cryptek one (or both) of the listed wargear options. HOWEVER, the rules state that 'each of the wargear options can only be chosen once in each Royal Court'. So the only way you're going to get more than one Veil of Death (for example) is to take a second Royal Court and even then you're only getting a second one. So it does not look like you will be able to spam these items.

Although there are some exceptions, for the most part these wargear options tend to benefit the unit they're leading, or affect enemy units that are trying to do something to the unit. Like giving the unit assault and defensive grenades (Gaze of Flame), you already know about Solar Pulse if you've been reading my posts closely, causing damage on enemy units Deep Striking near or assaulting that Necron unit (Ether Crystal & Lightning Field respectively), reducing one enemy unit's assault move against that Necron unit by D3" (Seismic Crucible), etc. And all of the upgraded Cryptek weapons are ranged weapons.

So in general I think the basic Lord is what you take if you're trying to give the Royal Court some CC punch (or give a unit some CC punch)...besides the obvious Rez Orb choice, of course! Instead, if you're wanting to upgrade your unit to have some unique abilities and a specialty shooting weapon in it, then the Cryptek is the way to go.



C'Tan Shards: Just to be clear (someone asked), the Necrons do not have any kind of 'deal' worked out with the C'Tan shards. It doesn't state how, but they are able to control them somehow (using their super-tech) to basically point them at the enemy and get them to do what they want, but of course in game terms this isn't represented, there's no special 'rage' rule or anything forcing you to play a C'Tan a certain way.

The fluff says that the Necrons are constantly hunting down missing C'Tan shards and trying to imprison them in pocket dimensional prisons. They know that they can never fully destroy a C'Tan (only break them into shards and keep them from forming back together), but of course their fear is that the C'Tans will be able to reform and then take revenge back against the Necrons.

Every indication I get from the codex is that you'll just use the existing models to represent C'Tan shards, because if you think about how they're described now, a 'shard' is really much closer to what the old codex's power-level was for a C'Tan.

As for the 2 'Manifestations of Power' each shard must take, they each cost a different point value (between 10 & 50 points) and you can only have one of each choice in the army no matter how many C'Tan shards you take. There is a wide variety of different things that can be chosen, from powers that are roughly equivalent to some of the special rules that the Deceiver & Nightbringer had access to in the last codex and plenty of new impressive rules as well (such as making all difficult terrain on the table dangerous for the enemy or making one enemy model in base contact have to pass an Initiative test or be removed from the table). 3 of them are shooting attack choices, each obviously quite a different kind of attack than the others.

As awesome as some of this suonds, you have to temper that with the fact that shards are nearly 200 points with no options, and once you factor in the two manifestation upgrades, you're talking about a unit that is somewhere between 200-300 points (depending on which two manifestations you take).





Automatically Appended Next Post:

The Night Scythe, Catacomb Command Barge & Doom Scythe are Fast Skimmers (so can move flat-out).

The Ghost Ark, Doomsday Ark & Annihilation Barge are just Skimmers (so no moving flat-out). And yes, there is no reason the embarked models can't fire from the Ghost Ark as well as the vehicle's Gauss Flayer arrays, but remember that embarked vehicles cannot fire when the vehicle moved faster than combat speed (unless they disembark first).

The Monolith is a new vehicle type, a 'heavy' skimmer which means the vehicle can only ever move combat speed but always counts as stationary when firing. Oh, and the Monolith has a rule that says it can only ever Deep Strike in from Reserve.

First of all, Yakface rocks.
Second, I'm trying to play my purchases, do we know unit allowances? For eample, are Immmortals still 5-10? Haw many can be in a Deathmark squad? Preatorians? Etc?
Any info on this would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks again Yak! more info is always great!

Isn't the Tesseract Labyrinth mentioned in Yak's last post the weird dimensional prisons described in the GK codex?

Also a thousand internets for providing us with this swell stuff!

BlackMath wrote:First of all, Yakface rocks.
Second, I'm trying to play my purchases, do we know unit allowances? For eample, are Immmortals still 5-10? Haw many can be in a Deathmark squad? Preatorians? Etc?
Any info on this would be greatly appreciated!

ELITES

• Deathmarks, Lychguard & Triarch Praetorians: 5-10

• C'Tan Shard & Triach Stalker: 1 per FOC

• Flayed Ones: 5-20


TROOPS

• Warriors: 5-20

• Immortals: 5-10


FAST ATTACK

• Canoptek Wraiths: 1-6

• Canoptek Scarabs: 3-10

• Tomb Blades: 1-5

• Destroyers: 1-3



HEAVY SUPPORT

• All Vehicles: 1 per FOC

• Tomb Spyders: 1-3

Yak do most of the units that can take a Nightscythe have a max size of 15? And is the min size for a Warrior sqaud still 10 thus meaning that it's an either or situation with giving them ghost arks or attaching a lord/cryptek?

Well that was awesome..



Are the Tomb Spydors still able to be fielded seperatly or do they operate as a unit now?

So the monolith Must deep strike? and it doesn't have any rules to keep it from mishapping? That is pretty painful considering how big it is.

Yes, the tesseract labyrinth is indeed mentioned on page 11 of Codex Grey Knights (The Vault of Labyrinths). Glad to see someone else caught the reference as well.

haroon wrote:So the monolith Must deep strike? and it doesn't have any rules to keep it from mishapping? That is pretty painful considering how big it is.

No, it can deploy normally, but if it is put into Reserve then it must arrive via Deep Strike.

KarlPedder wrote:
Are the Tomb Spydors still able to be fielded seperatly or do they operate as a unit now?

1-3 form a unit together per FOC taken.

Destroyers are 1-3? WTF? Please tell me they picked up some wounds.

And now Wraiths go to 1-6? So you make one unit useful, and the other useless. Thanks GW.

Quite a few posters dislike some of the head designs, especially the 'silly hat' ones - sounds like an option that 3rd party manufacturers like Chapterhouse etc could exploit perhaps?

Hmm, or even a whole selection of 'robot heads' in various sizes, to give players the option of a new look for their whole army? In particular something that doesn't look quite so 'metal skull', e.g. heads like Bender from Futurama (a whole Bender army would look cool ) or not even headlike at all, e.g. something like the marine sponson scanner arrays (which I've seen used for great Tau battlesuit 'heads').

Any other suggestions for option/expansion bits we'd like someone to make? I can see some alternate vehicle bits being popular too, for those who don't like the ark design.

NecronLord3 wrote:Destroyers are 1-3? WTF? Please tell me they picked up some wounds.

Well we still don't know what the situation with the "upgrade to HDestroyer" means does this just mean HGauss Cannon? What are its stats at the least its hopefully assault 1 now cause if its still heavy 1 Destroyers becoming scourges with DLs we didn't need. Course they apparently gave what has always been and presumably still is a shooty unit preffered enemy....

Much of what we are seeing just seems down right... odd. I'm not going to despair just yet; after all, this book is supposed to be written with 6th edition in mind.

What may seem lackluster now, could end up being rather strong once the core rules catch up