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Very dark indeed! Playing devils advocate. As with all persuasive cultures of the Imperium; The home worlders may not have see the “changing of the guard" as a negative. Being loyal more important than being declared a traitor? Once convicted how loyal would the common man share the punishment?
I’d rather believe that some traditionalist would have fought against change, but most would see the new masters as likely the same; only different. A modern example would be professional athletes. Some folks root for the players, requardless what team they play on ( Green SM or Silver SM are still SM ) Some root for the actual team. Still if that team is sent to play in another league (sector of space). There is no one to root for.
Now figuring in the religious power instilled over the Imperium in it’s heavy handed approach to force the civilian population into submission, I doubt the loyalties lasted much longer than a generation if that much. After all 100 year crusade is beyond the life expectancy for the poor bastard in the 41st century.
Lastly, I doubt the Space Sharks would give back the world they feel rightfully won and were rewarded. Especially to the very chapter they once considered traitors.
I’m guessing all SM chapters are not so divinely viewed as well as the Ultramarines and civilian populations are not all loyal to the grave.
Here’s to starting the war up against the Space sharks anyway! If you need a excuse to join against then go ahead and use the “Social justice” mantra… I’m in either way. (Just because I hate the name – and anything using the word “flame” )

Wait, are we talking about Battle Brother Favre or the MW?

Hi, i was wondering how the weapon ideas for the MW's were coming on?
I was taking a break from my wolves, and was messing about. Wondered what you thought, do they look mantis-ish?

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Trying to imitate a mantis forelimb, could imagine a disembowelling stroke with the outswing and stabby death with a backhended strike.

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Similar concept but just running the length of the forearm, flicking ou the wrist to create a mantis forelimb appearance, also quite compact for stealth.

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Similar again, but trying to get a more organic shape by putting half a sword blade on the flat of the chainsword.

Just ideas, hope you like them, if not, it's cool

I think you have them reversed sort of... that is if you're trying to duplicate a preying mantis arm. Here is the basic design I'm going with, though it will be fine tuned a bit in the final version.

Hey mate, I have a couple of these if'n you want after using my cephalyx for parts:
https://store.privateerpress.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=8287
(one on right)
And
https://store.privateerpress.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=8244
(one on left)

Gitsplitta wrote:I think you have them reversed sort of... that is if you're trying to duplicate a preying mantis arm. Here is the basic design I'm going with, though it will be fine tuned a bit in the final version.

While I really like this idea for the blades, I can't help but feel the teeth on those would get caught on each other, especially the second one. I'd be tempted to cut off the teeth closest to the join, so it's two shorter sets of saws

I like them too, esp the left arm, and i agree too with what you are saying about the teeth.
Unless of course the teeth are mini blades which do not move, in real world terms you would need some type of mechanism at the crease/ bend to stop the chain becoming loos and flopping about or pulling taut and looking like a bow, so removing the teeth at the bend, to appear as if they go in the cover and round the mechanism might be an idea.

Yes mine are kinda reversed, but you could just as easily remove the teeth on the outside edge or turn the blade around, like the 3rd pic so the teeth are against the forearm and the blade outwards to get a less boxy more organic edge. Then if te model flipped his wrist up the ways it opens like a mantis arms do.

Gitsplitta: I was just throwing ideas out there, and I am grateful you took the time to look and read them before giving your opinion. I do think what you are doing wth the MW's is very nice and very in depth, it shows you are putting a lot of thought, heart and soul into this which is sometimes lacking in others who often do an army because it is a fad.

I also like that you can have time to do this and share the hobby with your kids and have a family life, you seem to have struck a good balance, something which i am trying to do too (family life part, my son is 8 months old so needs a lot of attention I dont let him share my models lol).

Keep it gong, this is rapidly becoming my favourite part of Dakka.

@graven: Not sure if that was directed at me or not. Those are really cool arms, but a little too insect like for my uses. Might work on a MoTF conversion though... Hmmmm.

@endtransmission: The direction of the blades is very specific... and please keep in mind that the photo shows an old iteration of the mantis arm. In the chaos version I did for Styro I removed the the last couple of teeth or otherwise modified the design to represent the teeth missing each other. Chainsaws have a tendency to bind, so if the blades drew into each other a single object could get jammed between them and shut down the whole weapon. My orientation is designed to pull the victim forward and down, putting them in a very vulnerable position as automatically clearing any jams.

@dantay: No worries friend, I did not mean to be critical... just giving my opinion. I do like your ideas... especially the ax blade on the upside-down chainsword... very sweet looking. Also very special-forces looking. Please feel free to propose ideas and experiment... you won't get any grief from me. Your contributions just make the blog better and better!

Gits

Gitsplitta wrote:@endtransmission: The direction of the blades is very specific... and please keep in mind that the photo shows an old iteration of the mantis arm. In the chaos version I did for Styro I dud cull the the last couple of teeth or otherwise modify the design to represent the teeth missing each other. Chainsaws have a tendency to bind you see, so if the blades drew into each other a single object could get jammed between them and shut down the whole weapon. My orientation is designed to pull the victim forward and down, putting them in a very vulnerable position as automatically clearing any jams.

I've no problem with the direction of the blades, it makes good sense to drag the person towards you with them. It was purely that the teeth looked like they would catch on each other

In that case you are correct... those teeth would catch on each other. I suspect a real working version would actually involve three chains... two on one of the blades with a gap in-between for the third chain which would be on the other blade. That's way too complicated to depict on the model though, so I just shave a tooth or two off the adjoining ends so it doesn't look like there would be a problem.

@gits: that's exactly what I was thinking. Also, have a look at rackham scarab/mantid warriors as I can savage mine happily for bits.

Have to wait 'till I get home to check them out... but I will. Thanks graven!

Gitsplitta wrote:In that case you are correct... those teeth would catch on each other. I suspect a real working version would actually involve three chains... two on one of the blades with a gap in-between for the third chain which would be on the other blade. That's way too complicated to depict on the model though, so I just shave a tooth or two off the adjoining ends so it doesn't look like there would be a problem.

But it's not like you're building a real, working version of those.
Right?
RIGHT?
AAAAAA! GET IT OFF ME AAA- Splat

I do own TWO chainsaws...

And really, why do you need two arms?

I think you could do it... but it would require one long continuous chain and a mechanism for keeping the chain taught as the "arm" bent. Not impossible, but the chains would be moving in a direction that would encourage binding, so I don't think it would work very well. It would look a lot like my chaos chainsword actually, you'd just have to slightly tweak the angle of the two saw blades so that the chain could pass itself without contact.

A search of google provided no real-life examples of a hinged saw... thought their might have been some bizarre industrial application or something.

Final Note: As an experienced chain saw user, let me state that I would never, ever, actually build a chain sword as I suspect that as little as 30 seconds of actual combat use would result in the immediate death or dismemberment OF THE USER. Neat idea for a model...but totally insane, unbelievably stupid. Just like a plasma weapon... only death would be much more certain and much more painful.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

dantay_xv wrote:Gitsplitta: I was just throwing ideas out there, and I am grateful you took the time to look and read them before giving your opinion. I do think what you are doing wth the MW's is very nice and very in depth, it shows you are putting a lot of thought, heart and soul into this which is sometimes lacking in others who often do an army because it is a fad.

Actually I should have read your post more closely & I would have understood better where you were going with your designs... mea culpa. Both of your designs would be excellent for close-in fighting... consistent with your stealth comment. That double-bladed mother would be nasty... as I mentioned before I like the other one too. It's a bit more elegant which I find appealing.

Hey Gits! just thought I would post a pic to let you know I am still workin on the helmets

I figured I would pour a mold of the four "basic" helmets so that I could convert up a few to try out more ideas..Ok, so I ran out of SM heads to convert so I needed more



As you can see I had to GS a few bubbles that formed at the top of the mold, those face vent and mandibles are hard to get to cast well but practice makes perfect and I have bunch more to go so they should be casting fine by the end!

Cheers

BLACKHAND

BLACKHAND wrote:Hey Gits! just thought I would post a pic to let you know I am still workin on the helmets

I figured I would pour a mold of the four "basic" helmets so that I could convert up a few to try out more ideas..Ok, so I ran out of SM heads to convert so I needed more



As you can see I had to GS a few bubbles that formed at the top of the mold, those face vent and mandibles are hard to get to cast well but practice makes perfect and I have bunch more to go so they should be casting fine by the end!

Cheers

BLACKHAND

HEHE well done matey... nice I really like them so original!

I have had some success (lately) in bubble removal try adding a further hollow to the mold so the item I want is in the middle of the cast not the top or bottom which is where I seem to get most of my air trapped example below



When I do this I seem to get nearly zero bubbles in my actual work but plenty of bad ones in the hollow, just an idea not even sure if you have tried it before.

Those look great blackhand! I just got the last of your bits yesterday so I'll have more supplies to you in a day or so!

Just can't get over them... so cool.

Thanks man.

Does this mean we will get to see some pics of assembled MW's??

When the various parts come in... still waiting on the pads & of course Blackhands work, which is at the moment on the other side of the planet. Then I actually have to buy a modern marine set... I don't actually own any marines newer than Mark VI save the few I've traded for.

Sounds good....
I never hear stuff about the Mantis warriors, the only stuff I hear about in the Badab war are the Lamenters, and obviously the red corsairs.

Ah, no worries...... just helps build anticipation. Am looking forward to seeing how they turn out. Blackhands, scuplts look amazing. All in all this has been an amazing adventure watching how your army is unfolding.... even though i just joined recently.

Well, in hopes of moving things along I'm seriously considering the purchase of an air brush in order to facilitate the base coating and highlighting/blending of marines and vehicles (3 drop pods, 2 LS Storms, 3 more dreads). I have another thread requesting assistance that has gotten really helpful responses.

If that happens, I might be able to make some actual progress on my Mantis Warriors in spite of all my other responsibilities... which would be nice.

Yes, I have been watching Sons of Orars threads and i saw your thread too. I have been finding it interesting how useful they can really be.... I always thought it was only good for doing the basecoat.

I am seriously considering buying an airbrush too as i have 11 vehicles and 18 squads of marines to churn through.

Let me know how you get on with the airbrush.

I know the UK is a bit far away but any time you need a hand, let me know, i could use a distraction

Hey dantay, you should check out some of the U-tube instructional videos that were recommended to me... wow, the highlighting and blending possibilities of an airbrush are seriously formidable. Granted the people doing the demonstrations are experts, but I think with a little practice just about anyone could master the basics. It's just one of those things where you'd want to have several pieces ready to go at the same time so your time cleaning the brush in-between colors and afterwards is worth the productivity of using the brush.

Will do. I think I can manage that (the number of models i mean).

At the mo, my painting style of choice is drybrushing as space wolves lend themselves well to it, but i really want to learn some new skills...... its been a few years since i properly picked up a brush in anger, so still knocking some rust off, and relearning old techniques.

Plus with all those models, airbrushing could be quite quick and effective.

So do you plan to build all the Mantis Warriors at once and paint them or build bit by bit and paint as you go?

Besides the models done so far

I've always been a paint-as-you-go kind of guy. That leaves more room for growth and new ideas to filter in over time. Heck, if I'd have gone ahead and built everything when I first decided to start this project, Blackhand, Whalemusic, Chapterhouse & graven would have never gotten involved (just to name a few) & it would be a much poorer effort as a result.

Yeah, i am a bit of a nut-job and get over excited and buy everything then build it all at once....... then with a sea of plastic in front of me, i realise what a mammoth job i have and it never gets done.

I ended up trading/ giving away a bunch of armies as i could never do it all.

I think build and paint as you go is definitely a better way to do it.
I got all my wolves done, but now i am just breaking it down into bits so i can work in manageable chunks, so my blog is a challenge for me to get it done.

I am impressed with how much like a community it is is in dakka, where everyone actually talks, listens and shares ideas... not mud-slinging and stuff. i am really enjoying it and its making modelling a fun experience too.

Hope all goes well with the Mantis Warriors and they get to kick some star fish tail.

Thanks dantay... funny that I feel the same way about Dakka, but it has a terrible reputation for being a flame fest. Guess it's just like real life, it all depends on who you hang out with. I figure the same people I hang out with on dakka would be the same group I'd gravitate to if all dakkaites were placed in a big room together & left to sort things out on our own.

Sure some of the fiery personalities would be fun to watch and listen to for a bit. But eventually I'd get bored and want to go hang out with the people who's work I appreciated and who had similar ideas about the hobby as mine.