GW News & Rumours [40K]: 30k Ahriman, 40k Kharn, Void Shield gen & CSM Black Crusade supplement

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**Arbitrator**

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
So I guess that confirms it? New CSM release was plastic Kharn and that's it?

You almost sound surprised. I can see how Black Crusade releases will go now.

Non-Imperial release -> Space Marine release -> Non-Imperial release -> Space Marine release -> Non-Imperial release -> Brand new unit/army designed to be allied with Space Marines -> Space Marine release -> Non-Imperial release.

Maybe Imperial Guard will get something, but I'm not holding my breath.

**Matt.Kingsley**

@gungo:

There's no CSM relics in this Campaign... only Renegade Knights are getting relics.

CSMs only have 2 Supplements, so that's 3 lists of Relics total.

Last I checked the BA codex didn't have any generic DC Chaplains, just Chaplains. New rules there. Model might not be new but the rules are.

2 potential Decurions (1 is definitely a Decurion) is better than 1 Decurion. Even if the 2nd detachment isn't Decurion-style, it'll give more choice than the 2 Formation CSMs get.

You can complain about repacks all you want, but it's still 6 more model releases than CSMs are getting, even if they aren't new models. That's like saying Deathwatch only got 3 model releases because everything else was repacks.

**Wolf_in_Human_Shape**

gungo wrote:
Matt.Kingsley wrote:
@casvalremdeikun:
The contents of the book.

The only thing CSMs gets more of it Formations (11 to 9), however BA also get a 2nd Detachment, relics, new wargear, and 2 'new' units (Terminator Captain technically isn't new, but the DC Chaplain is).

The only thing CSMs get that BA don't is 4 'new' Disciplines... that BA had access to RAI before-hand.

Also this is what... the 4th set of Relics for BA (including the ones in their codex already) and the second set of Tactical Objectives?

You're getting more rules, and splash repacks is better than Kharn given how expensive he is. While they aren't new, it's more releases than CSMs are getting.

If it turns out that there's a 3rd part with more CSM stuff, I'll shut my mouth after admitting I was wrong and too hasty. Until then though BAs look to be getting the better deal out of the major CSM campaign.

Time to keep your word
Because not only Is the csm book bigger with more new formations
And new powers but they also have new relics not just for traitors hate but also for the renegade knight.
There are no new models for ba the DC chaplain already exists. And with 4+ supplments for chaos I wouldn't be claiming a BA have more relics.
There are two detschments (yippee) which can only ever use one of. And even with that extra detschment your still less than the csm supplements 11+1
So how are BA getting more rules again?

You sure about the new relics thing? I see the product description says relics for Renegade Knights, but nothing for CSM is mentioned.

Not a competition thing, I hope BA get lots of good stuff, but I'd love for you to be right about CSM relics. It's just the first I've heard/read of it,

**VeteranNoob**

FW has been futureproofing the latest red books so not sure if you can read new rules into that but can see more adaptability to a less cumbersome ruleset.

**reds8n**

https://www.facebook.com/1575682476085719/photos/a.1576243776029589.1073741828.1575682476085719/1679168629070436/?type=3&theater

**Motograter**

Not even out yet and chaos have already been swatted aside yet again. Squat chaos gw if you're not willing to put effort in

**Wayniac**

Honestly I think they need to get out of the weekly release stuff.

**diepotato47**

Wow. Argueing about which book contans more, one that isn't out yet, and one that hasn't even been formally announced.

Or, yay, both armies got much needed updates, a frankly awesome new Kharn model and some repacks, and a solid amount of plot advancement.

**Chaos Legionnaire**

Yeah!
Chaos vs Blood Angels.
The battle of the bottom feeders.

Let's do this!

**tneva82**

diepotato47 wrote:
Wow. Argueing about which book contans more, one that isn't out yet, and one that hasn't even been formally announced.

Or, yay, both armies got much needed updates, a frankly awesome new Kharn model and some repacks, and a solid amount of plot advancement.

Well it's CSM and BA players. What you expect? Hopefully nothing new since seen their messages once, seen all of the future ones as well.

**Frozocrone**

I just put up all my BA stuff on eBay as well...

Although, I'm not exactly crying with the amount of money I have now...

I saw an interesting article from natfka (bleh) but looks to be promising, if only a band aid on a much bigger problem (external and the codex itself). I'll keep an eye on it, but I'm not overly optimistic about it.

**diepotato47**

Well as a long time player of Blood Angels and one who still plays using the awesome 2014 codex, I'd like to express my preemptive joy at whatever goodies this new book contains, when I play it against my equally gleeful friend who will use his CSM and the goodies in his awesome new book

**commander dante**

Perhaps the BA unleashed ALL the Death Company? (I.E including the ones locked up in the tower and perhaps some drafted from Successor Chapters)
Hench why they have the Strength to fight Chaos after Ghazghull Armageddon 2: Electric Boogaloo and Shield of Baal

**VeteranNoob**

...none of this is even out yet.

Let's see how the books look and what is actually to be released over the next weeks and few months.

**FoxPhoenix135**

Why are people even comparing CSM to BA anyway? Apples to oranges... BA is only a single chapter. A more accurate comparison would be Black Legion to BA, or Crimson Slaughter to BA.

**gungo**

FoxPhoenix135 wrote:
Why are people even comparing CSM to BA anyway? Apples to oranges... BA is only a single chapter. A more accurate comparison would be Black Legion to BA, or Crimson Slaughter to BA.

Because that doesn't make sense since BA is a seperate codex that doesn't use any rules from the space marine codex because that's still considered a completely different codex. This is like saying dark eldar are the same as eldar.

Furthermore poor csm such a bad army it only got 2nd place at NoVa. Where was the closest BA army?

**Eldarain**

Do you have that CSM list?

**NamelessBard**

gungo wrote:
FoxPhoenix135 wrote:
Why are people even comparing CSM to BA anyway? Apples to oranges... BA is only a single chapter. A more accurate comparison would be Black Legion to BA, or Crimson Slaughter to BA.

Because that doesn't make sense since BA is a seperate codex that doesn't use any rules from the space marine codex because that's still considered a completely different codex. This is like saying dark eldar are the same as eldar.

Furthermore poor csm such a bad army it only got 2nd place at NoVa. Where was the closest BA army?

So someone at the ultra high end of competitive Warhammer has made a very specific list to do a very specific thing and suddenly CSM are all good? (I don't even know what the list is)

It would be nice if the post could be kept to useful content instead of back and forth on who is the "poor" army.

**ImAGeek**

Don't fight guys. Your armies are all crap! Happy?

**jifel**

NamelessBard wrote:
gungo wrote:
FoxPhoenix135 wrote:
Why are people even comparing CSM to BA anyway? Apples to oranges... BA is only a single chapter. A more accurate comparison would be Black Legion to BA, or Crimson Slaughter to BA.

Because that doesn't make sense since BA is a seperate codex that doesn't use any rules from the space marine codex because that's still considered a completely different codex. This is like saying dark eldar are the same as eldar.

Furthermore poor csm such a bad army it only got 2nd place at NoVa. Where was the closest BA army?

So someone at the ultra high end of competitive Warhammer has made a very specific list to do a very specific thing and suddenly CSM are all good? (I don't even know what the list is)

It would be nice if the post could be kept to useful content instead of back and forth on who is the "poor" army.

Actually, I'm fairly certain that the second place wasn't CSM at all, but Renegades and Heretics from IA:13...

But, back on topic... anyone got those leaks yet?

**casvalremdeikun**

Matt.Kingsley wrote:
@casvalremdeikun:
The contents of the book.

The only thing CSMs gets more of it Formations (11 to 9), however BA also get a 2nd Detachment, relics, new wargear, and 2 'new' units (Terminator Captain technically isn't new, but the DC Chaplain is).

The only thing CSMs get that BA don't is 4 'new' Disciplines... that BA had access to RAI before-hand.

Also this is what... the 4th set of Relics for BA (including the ones in their codex already) and the second set of Tactical Objectives?

You're getting more rules, and splash repacks is better than Kharn given how expensive he is. While they aren't new, it's more releases than CSMs are getting.

If it turns out that there's a 3rd part with more CSM stuff, I'll shut my mouth after admitting I was wrong and too hasty. Until then though BAs look to be getting the better deal out of the major CSM campaign.

DC Chaplain already exists. It is the Jump Pack Chaplain with an Inferno Pistol with the winged Jump Pack. So literally nothing new. And your bundles include stuff like a free Daemon Prince. Based on the bundles coming, I would not be surprised in the least if the formations for BA are reprints of the Exterminatus book. One of the formations, the Archangels Orbital Intervention Force is from that book. Others likely will be as well. The BA relic lists are only three relics besides the codex, so as of right now we only have 12 relics, only 9 of which can ever be used by one army.

So no, we are not getting more rules, we are getting old rules repackaged. The Death Company Strike Force is probably one of the only new formations. And we are getting no new models. So it is a net win for Chaos.

**Bull0**

Are you actually concluding from the fact that they're doing a bundle for a formation from Exterminatus that all/most of the content in this new book will just be reprinted from Exterminatus?

Because that seems like a bit of a leap? You may turn out to be right but isn't it just speculation?

**gungo**

Bull0 wrote:
Are you actually concluding from the fact that they're doing a bundle for a formation from Exterminatus that all/most of the content in this new book will just be reprinted from Exterminatus?

Because that seems like a bit of a leap? You may turn out to be right but isn't it just speculation?

Um that's exactly what every chaos person posting here actually did based off the web bundles and considering they know nothing about the formations in the chaos supplement and even less about the BA dex.

**Motograter**

Well I've seen the formations and khârn's rules. Save yourself the 30 quid folks

http://i1331.photobucket.com/albums/w581/KhadorBlood/Mobile%20Uploads/C__Data_Users_DefApps_AppData_INTERNETEXPLORER_Temp_Saved%20Images_14284838_10153865857293848_2003333056_o_zpsmr9lgei2.jpg

**casvalremdeikun**

Bull0 wrote:
Are you actually concluding from the fact that they're doing a bundle for a formation from Exterminatus that all/most of the content in this new book will just be reprinted from Exterminatus?

Because that seems like a bit of a leap? You may turn out to be right but isn't it just speculation?

Not every formation, but several will probably be pulled from that book. I am not complaining about that either. I don't have Exterminatus. Several of thone formations are pretty good(need errata though).

**rollawaythestone**

Motograter wrote:
Well I've seen the formations and khârn's rules. Save yourself the 30 quid folks

... and millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced.

**casvalremdeikun**

Motograter wrote:
Well I've seen the formations and khârn's rules. Save yourself the 30 quid folks

care to elaborate? Can Khârn at least be used in a KDK list so he can be hallways decent?

**Motograter**

rollawaythestone wrote:
Motograter wrote:
Well I've seen the formations and khârn's rules. Save yourself the 30 quid folks

... and millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced.

Link in my comment for pics. See for yourself

Automatically Appended Next Post:

casvalremdeikun wrote:
Motograter wrote:
Well I've seen the formations and khârn's rules. Save yourself the 30 quid folks
care to elaborate? Can Khârn at least be used in a KDK list so he can be hallways decent?

No he cant. Link in original comment

**rollawaythestone**

Motograter wrote:
rollawaythestone wrote:
Motograter wrote:
Well I've seen the formations and khârn's rules. Save yourself the 30 quid folks

... and millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced.

Link in my comment for pics. See for yourself

Automatically Appended Next Post:

casvalremdeikun wrote:
Motograter wrote:
Well I've seen the formations and khârn's rules. Save yourself the 30 quid folks
care to elaborate? Can Khârn at least be used in a KDK list so he can be hallways decent?

No he cant. Link in original comment

Cheers for the leak, Motograter! Now I need to brace myself to look at these disappointments...

Automatically Appended Next Post:
The Lost and the Damned, and the Hellforged Warpack are pretty useable.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lol @ Favoured of Chaos. Does benefiting from all three mutations for Possessed make them useable? Methinks not.

**casvalremdeikun**

Motograter wrote:
rollawaythestone wrote:
Motograter wrote:
Well I've seen the formations and khârn's rules. Save yourself the 30 quid folks

... and millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced.

Link in my comment for pics. See for yourself

Automatically Appended Next Post:

casvalremdeikun wrote:
Motograter wrote:
Well I've seen the formations and khârn's rules. Save yourself the 30 quid folks
care to elaborate? Can Khârn at least be used in a KDK list so he can be hallways decent?

No he cant. Link in original comment

Because of course he can't. Well, this torpedoed any hopes I had with the BA content. Also sad to see Chaos didn't get anything good.