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Hmm.

I see a lot of people saying why and all I can think of is the following...

GKs had a severe problem of redundancy in their codex - their entire psychic Mastery was essentially copy-pasted into the main rulebook, their Inquisition units were copy-pasted into a codex of their own. Really you need to trim both of these out and streamline the codex somewhat - Dark Eldar and Necrons, in comparison are still fairly clean with no redundancies in their books.

Second - GKs still had a very confusing set up of rules with Nemesis Weapons - the FAQ for them has changed a number of times and really they weren't too clear to begin with - you had people arguing for halberds as axes, as unusual, as lances... blech. Really this is an opportunity to clean that all up so an ever shifting FAQ isn't needed. Not to mention BoP on their units and their fixed powers - something GW is shying away from of late.

Third - they really didn't need any new models - they're being mass repackaged and it's still not very clear if there's going to be a new vehicle sprue for them or not (since the vehicles are all getting GK packaging...). It was a quick and easy codex to do as it's just a few rules tweaks and a quick tidy up to bring them up to standard.

What about the others?

Well - Blood Angels are probably the last codex truly needing an overhaul due to their set up and layout. Units are overcosted, they still have a Psychic Discipline that is unusable because it's fixed powers (like Orks, GKs, Space Wolves, Eldar and Tyranids had...) and at the end of the day they're still a late 4th/early 5th edition codex and as such a lot of the balance is reliant on the way wargear functioned a few editions ago (Psychic hoods for example...)

Dark Eldar and Necrons will probably get an overhaul afterwards - but to be fair Necrons were essentially the last codex of 5th so were more designed around 6th themselves.

Sisters- got an 'okay' digital codex but the severe lack of anti-flyer disturbs me. They really need a model range overhaul as well (much in the same line as the Dark Eldar release was).

 mattyrm wrote:

 agnosto wrote:
And Merret testified in court that GW customers "goober" and "geek out" over releases and that out hobby is "buying GW products".

Yeah, lovely testimony that was.

Surely he can be found guilty of perjury?

Not a lawyer, but I think perjury has to be deliberate. Being totally ignorant and uninformed of the state of the industry or mindset of you customers doesn't count!

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Hmm.

I see a lot of people saying why and all I can think of is the following...

GKs had a severe problem of redundancy in their codex - their entire psychic Mastery was essentially copy-pasted into the main rulebook, their Inquisition units were copy-pasted into a codex of their own. Really you need to trim both of these out and streamline the codex somewhat - Dark Eldar and Necrons, in comparison are still fairly clean with no redundancies in their books.

Second - GKs still had a very confusing set up of rules with Nemesis Weapons - the FAQ for them has changed a number of times and really they weren't too clear to begin with - you had people arguing for halberds as axes, as unusual, as lances... blech. Really this is an opportunity to clean that all up so an ever shifting FAQ isn't needed. Not to mention BoP on their units and their fixed powers - something GW is shying away from of late.

Third - they really didn't need any new models - they're being mass repackaged and it's still not very clear if there's going to be a new vehicle sprue for them or not (since the vehicles are all getting GK packaging...). It was a quick and easy codex to do as it's just a few rules tweaks and a quick tidy up to bring them up to standard.

What about the others?

Well - Blood Angels are probably the last codex truly needing an overhaul due to their set up and layout. Units are overcosted, they still have a Psychic Discipline that is unusable because it's fixed powers (like Orks, GKs, Space Wolves, Eldar and Tyranids had...) and at the end of the day they're still a late 4th/early 5th edition codex and as such a lot of the balance is reliant on the way wargear functioned a few editions ago (Psychic hoods for example...)

Dark Eldar and Necrons will probably get an overhaul afterwards - but to be fair Necrons were essentially the last codex of 5th so were more designed around 6th themselves.

Sisters- got an 'okay' digital codex but the severe lack of anti-flyer disturbs me. They really need a model range overhaul as well (much in the same line as the Dark Eldar release was).

First off, that the codex needed an update was pretty darn obvious to everybody. The way they went about it, is what annoys me (and it would seem several people in this thread). There's already a precedent for models with rules over 2 codexes. One of the most noticable, is the militarum tempestus. Perfect example of how you can have 2 books coexisting, just polish up the rules so both have the same in them. All they had to do, was make sure that Coteaz matched his counterpart of Codex: Inquisition.

Redundancy fixing is fine, that was badly needed.

Wargear explanations after 6th edition made different powerweapons have different stats: fine. It was confusing.

I strongly disagree however on the "not needing any new models". This really is a FIRST that a codex is released without any models beside it. Like you said, it's just repacks and bundles. The vehicle sprue is a myth... They'd be insanely dumb to just post a stock landraider in their army bundle if there was one, wouldn't they? So that one's pretty safe to assume is out the window.

But the most pressing thing: losing inquisition and psybolt really does cut away somewhat "essential" items in the GK armory. Except for the odd lascannon on a vehicle, there's almost no weapons that actually shoot over 24", has a S8+ or has has an AP value of 1-3 anymore. That's all elements that I previously had to get via inquisitorial warbands. So saying that this army "really doesn't need anything" is not something I can agree with.

 Elmir wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Hmm.

I see a lot of people saying why and all I can think of is the following...

GKs had a severe problem of redundancy in their codex - their entire psychic Mastery was essentially copy-pasted into the main rulebook, their Inquisition units were copy-pasted into a codex of their own. Really you need to trim both of these out and streamline the codex somewhat - Dark Eldar and Necrons, in comparison are still fairly clean with no redundancies in their books.

Second - GKs still had a very confusing set up of rules with Nemesis Weapons - the FAQ for them has changed a number of times and really they weren't too clear to begin with - you had people arguing for halberds as axes, as unusual, as lances... blech. Really this is an opportunity to clean that all up so an ever shifting FAQ isn't needed. Not to mention BoP on their units and their fixed powers - something GW is shying away from of late.

Third - they really didn't need any new models - they're being mass repackaged and it's still not very clear if there's going to be a new vehicle sprue for them or not (since the vehicles are all getting GK packaging...). It was a quick and easy codex to do as it's just a few rules tweaks and a quick tidy up to bring them up to standard.

What about the others?

Well - Blood Angels are probably the last codex truly needing an overhaul due to their set up and layout. Units are overcosted, they still have a Psychic Discipline that is unusable because it's fixed powers (like Orks, GKs, Space Wolves, Eldar and Tyranids had...) and at the end of the day they're still a late 4th/early 5th edition codex and as such a lot of the balance is reliant on the way wargear functioned a few editions ago (Psychic hoods for example...)

Dark Eldar and Necrons will probably get an overhaul afterwards - but to be fair Necrons were essentially the last codex of 5th so were more designed around 6th themselves.

Sisters- got an 'okay' digital codex but the severe lack of anti-flyer disturbs me. They really need a model range overhaul as well (much in the same line as the Dark Eldar release was).

First off, that the codex needed an update was pretty darn obvious to everybody. The way they went about it, is what annoys me (and it would seem several people in this thread). There's already a precedent for models with rules over 2 codexes. One of the most noticable, is the militarum tempestus. Perfect example of how you can have 2 books coexisting, just polish up the rules so both have the same in them. All they had to do, was make sure that Coteaz matched his counterpart of Codex: Inquisition.

Redundancy fixing is fine, that was badly needed.

Wargear explanations after 6th edition made different powerweapons have different stats: fine. It was confusing.

I strongly disagree however on the "not needing any new models". This really is a FIRST that a codex is released without any models beside it. Like you said, it's just repacks and bundles. The vehicle sprue is a myth... They'd be insanely dumb to just post a stock landraider in their army bundle if there was one, wouldn't they? So that one's pretty safe to assume is out the window.

But the most pressing thing: losing inquisition and psybolt really does cut away somewhat "essential" items in the GK armory. Except for the odd lascannon on a vehicle, there's almost no weapons that actually shoot over 24", has a S8+ or has has an AP value of 1-3 anymore. That's all elements that I previously had to get via inquisitorial warbands. So saying that this army "really doesn't need anything" is not something I can agree with.

Firstly, Mastery Levels wasn't copy and pasted into the Codex, it was C&P'd into the main book from GK! Along with BoP and Psychic Pilot.

Secondly, the fixed powers were there because those powers were specialised (fluff) for the unit in question.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Hmm.

I see a lot of people saying why and all I can think of is the following...

GKs had a severe problem of redundancy in their codex - their entire psychic Mastery was essentially copy-pasted into the main rulebook, their Inquisition units were copy-pasted into a codex of their own. Really you need to trim both of these out and streamline the codex somewhat - Dark Eldar and Necrons, in comparison are still fairly clean with no redundancies in their books.

Second - GKs still had a very confusing set up of rules with Nemesis Weapons - the FAQ for them has changed a number of times and really they weren't too clear to begin with - you had people arguing for halberds as axes, as unusual, as lances... blech. Really this is an opportunity to clean that all up so an ever shifting FAQ isn't needed. Not to mention BoP on their units and their fixed powers - something GW is shying away from of late.

Third - they really didn't need any new models - they're being mass repackaged and it's still not very clear if there's going to be a new vehicle sprue for them or not (since the vehicles are all getting GK packaging...). It was a quick and easy codex to do as it's just a few rules tweaks and a quick tidy up to bring them up to standard.

What about the others?

Well - Blood Angels are probably the last codex truly needing an overhaul due to their set up and layout. Units are overcosted, they still have a Psychic Discipline that is unusable because it's fixed powers (like Orks, GKs, Space Wolves, Eldar and Tyranids had...) and at the end of the day they're still a late 4th/early 5th edition codex and as such a lot of the balance is reliant on the way wargear functioned a few editions ago (Psychic hoods for example...)

Dark Eldar and Necrons will probably get an overhaul afterwards - but to be fair Necrons were essentially the last codex of 5th so were more designed around 6th themselves.

Sisters- got an 'okay' digital codex but the severe lack of anti-flyer disturbs me. They really need a model range overhaul as well (much in the same line as the Dark Eldar release was).

Gk really need so much more.. But I kinda see that it's hard to fit more versatile units into the fluff. It's a huge two fingers up from GW but it arguably fits in. They are essentially saying only take a gk detachment if you are playing against deamons.

First turn deep strike is border line useless as even terminators will just get slaughtered. I think a lot of people will be justifiably very annoyed at this release. Especially looking at the treatment that all the other armies have had so far.

First term deep strike could be awesome IF GKs have a special rule to assault from DS. being able to fire, run and then assault would make for a scary alphastrike (proably an OP one) I doubt VERY VERY VERY much GKs will have that, but if they have some sort of unique ability allowing them too, then I'd class GKs as a strong codex, without it, it'll still be solid just nothing exciting.

BrianDavion wrote:
First term deep strike could be awesome IF GKs have a special rule to assault from DS. being able to fire, run and then assault would make for a scary alphastrike (proably an OP one) I doubt VERY VERY VERY much GKs will have that, but if they have some sort of unique ability allowing them too, then I'd class GKs as a strong codex, without it, it'll still be solid just nothing exciting.

The rule is stated in the new WD: The unit can shoot and run. Charge, no way.

BrianDavion wrote:
First term deep strike could be awesome IF GKs have a special rule to assault from DS. being able to fire, run and then assault would make for a scary alphastrike (proably an OP one) I doubt VERY VERY VERY much GKs will have that, but if they have some sort of unique ability allowing them too, then I'd class GKs as a strong codex, without it, it'll still be solid just nothing exciting.

This is what it takes now? Some broken 1st turn no counter army to make people excited? To me any army that gets this will be so broken it will be house banned or I will not play at the venue period. We all ready had the tau crap of shoot you off the board before your army could even be fully deployed. Or everything gets sky fire or intercept basicly an all answers army that if they get 1st turn your waisting the day playing against it. When did that become fun? The game is about fun.
I wish dreads that did not move the same turn they shoot get sky fire or if they move they lose it that would be balanced its all ready in GW it's just the fw model.
And the space worf codex is anything but lack luster new fliers new dreads champions alows you to be a dread GOD with drop pods and templates. O ya they got a cool weapon that is a MC's worst nightmare 1 unsaved wound its gone bye bye.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also interceptor and purgation squads heard of those ? I have not it says the new kit can make 4 squads strike and purifier I have heard of.

 wuestenfux wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
First term deep strike could be awesome IF GKs have a special rule to assault from DS. being able to fire, run and then assault would make for a scary alphastrike (proably an OP one) I doubt VERY VERY VERY much GKs will have that, but if they have some sort of unique ability allowing them too, then I'd class GKs as a strong codex, without it, it'll still be solid just nothing exciting.

The rule is stated in the new WD: The unit can shoot and run. Charge, no way.

yup, which is proably how it should be. GK terminators should be tough eneugh to take some fire anyway. it'll certinly work,

BrianDavion wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
First term deep strike could be awesome IF GKs have a special rule to assault from DS. being able to fire, run and then assault would make for a scary alphastrike (proably an OP one) I doubt VERY VERY VERY much GKs will have that, but if they have some sort of unique ability allowing them too, then I'd class GKs as a strong codex, without it, it'll still be solid just nothing exciting.

The rule is stated in the new WD: The unit can shoot and run. Charge, no way.

yup, which is proably how it should be. GK terminators should be tough eneugh to take some fire anyway. it'll certinly work,

Indeed, running should help to dilute the effectiveness of enemy blasts.
Thus deep striking in turn 1 may become the standard assault pattern for GK armies.

Nemisis strike force run and shoot both on turn they enter also no rolling on turn 2 on 3+ they alll come in turn 1? That's pretty good boys and girl's.

Fireraven wrote:
Nemisis strike force run and shoot both on turn they enter also no rolling on turn 2 on 3+ they alll come in turn 1? That's pretty good boys and girl's.

This could be a quite interesting rule.
However, I think that the synergy of this formation is not really that high.

dworl

 Elmir wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Hmm.
r
I see a lot of people saying why and all I can think of is the following...

GKs had a severe problem of redundancy in their codex - their entire psychic Mastery was essentially copy-pasted into the main rulebook, their Inquisition units were copy-pasted into a codex of their own. Really you need to trim both of these out and streamline the codex somewhat - Dark Eldar and Necrons, in comparison are still fairly clean with no redundancies in their books.

Second - GKs still had a very confusing set up of rules with Nemesis Weapons - the FAQ for them has changed a number of times and really they weren't too clear to begin with - you had people arguing for halberds as axes, as unusual, as lances... blech. Really this is an opportunity to clean that all up so an ever shifting FAQ isn't needed. Not to mention BoP on their units and their fixed powers - something GW is shying away from of late.

Tihird - they really didn't need any new models - they're being mass repackaged and it's still not very clear if there's going to be a new vehicle sprue for them or not (since the vehicles are all getting GK packaging...). It was a quick and easy codex to do as it's just a few rules tweaks and a quick tidy up to bring them up to standard.

What about the others?

Well - Blood Angels are probably the last codex truly needing an overhaul due to their set up and layout. Units are overcosted, they still have a Psychic Discipline that is unusable because it's fixed powers (like Orks, GKs, Space Wolves, Eldar and Tyranids had...) and at the end of the day they're still a late 4th/early 5th edition codex and as such a lot of the balance is reliant on the way wargear functioned a few editions ago (Psychic hoods for example...)

Dark Eldar and Necrons will probably get an overhaul afterwards - but to be fair Necrons were essentially the last codex of 5th so were more designed around 6th themselves.
e
Sisters- got an 'okay' digital codex but the severe lack of anti-flyer disturbs me. They really need a model range overhaul as well (much in the same line as the Dark Eldar release was).

First off, that the codex needed an update was pretty darn obvious to everybody. The way they went about it, is what annoys me (and it would seem several people in this thread). There's already a precedent for models with rules over 2 codexes. One of the most noticable, is the militarum tempestus. Perfect example of how you can have 2 books coexisting, just polish up the rules so both have the same in them. All they had to do, was make sure that Coteaz matched his counterpart of Codex: Inquisition.

Redundancy fixing is fine, that was badly needed.

Wargear explanations after 6th edition made different powerweapons have different stats: fine. It was confusing.
th
I strongly disagree however on the "not needing any new models". This really is a FIRST that a codex is released without any models beside it. Like you said, it's just repacks and bundles. The vehicle sprue is a myth... They'd be insanely dumb to just post a stock landraider in their army bundle if there was one, wouldn't they? So that one's pretty safe to assume is out the window.

But the most pressing thing: losing inquisition and psybolt really does cut away somewhat "essential" items in the GK armory. Except for the odd lascannon on a vehicle, there's almost no weapons that actually shoot over 24", has a S8+ or has has an AP value of 1-3 anymore. That's all elements that I previously had to get via inquisitorial warbands. So saying that this army "really doesn't need anything" is not something I can agree with.

The orks and tyranids would like to welcome you to their world.

 wuestenfux wrote:

Fireraven wrote:
Nemisis strike force run and shoot both on turn they enter also no rolling on turn 2 on 3+ they alll come in turn 1? That's pretty good boys and girl's.

This could be a quite interesting rule.
However, I think that the synergy of this formation is not really that high.

We just need a comm relay and a scouting locator beacon to make this a reliable tactic.

 wuestenfux wrote:

Fireraven wrote:
Nemisis strike force run and shoot both on turn they enter also no rolling on turn 2 on 3+ they alll come in turn 1? That's pretty good boys and girl's.

This could be a quite interesting rule.
However, I think that the synergy of this formation is not really that high.

From a rules writing perspective balancing an alpha strike force is tricky, cos there has to be a sufficient counter. I would hate to drop a shiny metal force weapon wielding bomb that could decimate an entire flank and ensure a turn 2 win. That said I don't think they've got it right with this one, as realistically any interceptor packing army makes a mockery of deepstrikes in this edition. From a fluff perspective, bursting out of thin air and gutting the enemy reads brilliantly, but as a game mechanic it doesn't work as personally I would find it unsatisfying on both sides of it.

They had a 2 great write ups page 26 the detachment is on page 27. It works great as they say for terms and dread knights as well as strike squads. All else fails you can run them with a libby cast Sanctuary on Terms since that's still a troop slot not an elite for GK. I thinks its nice some safe ds run to get in close melta them or shoot then move away. the more I just take the time and read the actual articles the more I think GK codex should make anyone happy that actually has played them in thw past.

the new NSF turn 1 deep strike could potentially be great and fluffy - it really depends on which units get DS in the new codex. did i read somewhere that it's now a 6 inch scatter for GK DS?

i am worried that it will be too good - i've had enough of the 5th edition hangover of GKs being OP - i only started playing in 6th and i've still had people turn down a game because they think it wouldn't be fun.

So if it's too good, it'll be moanworthy AND it'll be the only sensible list to take if you care about being competetive.

hopefully it'll be OK and just make up for the loss of Mordrak in Alpha/Beta strike lists.

Fireraven wrote:
So GW is 2 things.
#1 -not releasing new codexes equals they do not care about the army or the players that play them.
Or
#2 - By releasing a lot of new codex's for armies that needed an update and new models for them. They then are money grubbing bad guys?
So how as a company can they win? They cannot.
I am glad to see these releases 1 less in front of my blood angels or goodness maybe my sister's army I was forced to shelve since filers entered 40k.

Fyi that conversion is an actual model that has been avalible to be used since the space marine codex came out. Page #171
For 20 extra points so you could have been using it the whole time for 120 points.
Maybe the GK will be psychic or maybe gain sky fire if it does not move like the contemptor dread does from FW.

Again it seems they cannot win. Every new update to SM factions makes the op Tau and Eldar that dominated just a little more even.

Everything about GW is money grubbing, not just the new codexes. Just look at everyone they've sued over things GW has no legal right to. Also, it's not just udating the codexes and giving new models, it's charging us into an early grave to do so.

For all we know, the new GK book may contain a competent army, but so far everything about it has been wrong. In the 5th Edition GK, a one-time purchase of a $30 codex got you Grey Knights, Inquisition, and Assassins.

The Grey Knights could easily be played without the others, but it was often beneficial to include a small Inquisitorial force with them. Personally I would use an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor as my Warlord, so I could use my other HQ to his full potential without handing my opponent the "Slay the Warlord" objective.

Inquisition could easily be played on their own because Coteaz made Warbands into Troops, so they could be fielded as their own detachment. The Inquisition Codex was redundant and entirely unneccessary. The Inquisition appears to now be in the same pool of neglect as the Sisters of Battle, and their removal leaves the GK codex desperately short of unit types. So instead of a "double codex" they charge us out the butt for separate ones.

Assassins don't deserve their own codex until they have the units to make it worth wile. They could have just as easily been left in the GK codex, and gotten a new Formation which is a Lone Assassin, so players of other factions could take them without a "HQ/Troop tax".

Why take out the characters without models? We've been doing just fine until now, and some of them are unique enough to warrant new model designs. Mordrak was awesome, and his removal is a slap in the face to everyone who created a custom Mordrak out of a Brother-Captain, or Brother-Captain Stern. Justicar Thawn is a Justicar. There is no reason to remove him. Slap on a couple extra purity seals and he stands out enough. He didn't need his own model, and he certainly didn't deserve to be removed.

But the best proof that GW consists of money grubbing is that they argued in court, that our hobby was buying their stuff. They are completely out of touch with what we want, only see dollar signs. How can they win? By showing their customers an ounce of respect and not taking a dump on everything they like.

From Brovius over at Bolter and chainsword:

Psilencer is ranged force weapon. And:

~Psycannons became Salvo 2/4 as expected. Heavy Psycannon has a dual profile, area saturation is the same (Heavy 1, large blast) but has a Salvo 3/6 option too.
~Purifiers inflict Soulblaze on all melee attacks, Incinerators have Soulblaze as well.
~Librarians are cheeeeeeeeeaaaap. We're talking ML3 (still in TDA) for the price of a current Psyriflemen dread (unfortunately Psybolts really are gone now)
~Brother-Captains are ML1, can be upgraded to a GM (+1A and ML2) for the same price as the GM's current ML-upgrade. Still under the 200pt mark.
~Nemesis Force Weapons have a few reworks. No more +1 invuln in melee for swords, halberds are +1S instead of +2I and the warding stave is +2S, AP4 and grants Adamantium Will.
~Paladin Apothecary is the same price as the current Apothecary upgrade (a solid 55pts less) and becomes a character. As reported, NFWs now cost points to upgrade, the previously spoiled figures are correct.

~The Titansword is +3S and AP2, all NFW have Daemonbane (successful Force activation grants rerolls to wound and armour pen against Daemons.

~NDK is a Monstrous Creature (character), same base cost, and all it's options got cheaper. PT is 45 points less than before, and the melee upgrades are dirt-cheap. With how awesome Psylencers are now, you'll be glad to know the Gatling Psylencer dropped 5pts.

Falchions are bought as a pair, S: user Specialist weapons. Just the one attack still.
GKT pricing is real, but they do have to pay for melee weapon upgrades, which are one price no matter the model using them. Special weapons are bunkered into PA and TDA price-points though (which BCs and GMs have access to, no more Ballistic Skill tax!) and a GM with Psycannon clocks in at just over 200pts.

Psycannon/sword GKTs are silly cheap now, slightly less than a Paladin. GKTs are the future, people!

EDIT: Regular banner is 12" bubble of rerolling failed morale and pinning checks and +1A to GKs in the squad.

RELICS!!
~The Soul Glaive is a halberd that lets you reroll failed Force tests, and while Force is in effect, the weilder rerolls to hit, wound and armour pen rolls. Costs as much as a GK Strike.

~The Bone Shard of Solor gives the weilder a 3++ while within 12" of a Daemon, increasing to a 2++ for Daemons of Khorne within the same distance. Half a GK Strike in points
~Domina Liber Daemonica grants 1 extra psychic power but has to be rolled on the Sanctic chart. The bearer and all friendly GK units within 6" reroll 1s on psychic tests from Sanctic. Costs as much as a GKT Psycannon
~Cuirass of Sacrifice is TDA with FnP and IWND, costs 5 points less than a GK Strike
~The Nemesis Banner is a 12" Fearless bubble for GKs, GKs in the squad get +1A and Daemons treat the fearless bubble as dangerous terrain, but is pretty pricey and only available for Paladins (as is the Brotherhood banner).

~The Fury of Deimos is an Assault 3, 36" master-crafted Storm Bolter with Precision Shot. Not too bad, same points cost as the Bone Shard.

Sanctic is repeated in the book (so no new powers), squads have the same psychic powers as they do in the FAQ, except that Purifiers have Banishment, Hammerhand AND Cleansign Flame. BCs, GMs and Librarians have the same power access as before. Draigo has Gate of Infinity!
No new characters or units as predicted/previously rumoured.

Still no Psycannon upgrades for vehicles.

And more:

Another interesting change: Psyk-out grenades changed a fair bit. Work like defensive grenades when charged by Psykers, can be thrown and they inflict Perils on one randomly determined Psyker in the squad that is hit by it (so like Mindstrike missiles but limited to one Perils, doesn't need to hit the Psyker, just his squad which is interesting).

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292163-grey-knights-7e-codex-rumor/page-8

[edit] beat me to it

Interesting. Standardised weapon costs isn't unexpected, and reasonable. The changes to the weapons I don't like though, losing the init bonus on Halberds is categorically Not Cool. Soul blaze might give purifiers some of their horde killing power back.

nevermind

And more from same source (too bad if mindstrike missils are gone....):

Few questions;


A )can you write down what NFW do now? (I will miss that +2 I from hellbard, that is quite big hit, but I guess that's the way GW wants to shift meta from CC to shooty)

B ) No more psy-razors?

C ) Mind strikes are in/out?

D ) Draigo is Lord of the War? any buffs?

E) How are paladins priced now ?

F ) Any SM additions into new GK codex to replace missing Inq stuff?

EDIT: BT's questions answered as follows-

a) NFWs all have Daemonbane (while Force is active, they also allow rerolls to wound and armour pen against Daemons)

B) Unfortunately, no

c) Replaced with Stormstrike Missiles, S8 AP2 concussion, but we have the throwable Psyk-out grenades which are similar to Mindstrike. Better vs. one Psyker in a squad, worse vs. squads of Psykers.

d) Yep, LoW treatment for him too. Titan Sword is S+3, AP2 and he's 30pts less. No force org manipulation though.

e) Same as now, minimum squads of 3. Apothecaries are a whole Paladin cheaper. Land Raiders are dedicated transports (same for GKTs)

f) Nope, no new units at all which is a bummer. We're expected to ally to get armour-cracking tools now.

Purifiers can't deepstrike still, neither can Purgs.
Only change to Psycannons was the Salvo 2/4 profile, so still 24" range and rending.

Is there any Army Wide rule to make us better at Deep Striking?

Nope, and the deepstrike bonus is only for the formation that was shown in WD (It is in the codex too).
There's a biiiig formation though (fittingly called a GK Brotherhood) with a pretty awesome benefit. If you take...

1 Grand Master
1 Brother Captain
3 Strike squads
3 Terminator squads
2 Interceptor squads
2 Purgation squads
1 Dreadnought
1 NDK

...you get Rites of Teleportation (as per the other formation) and Psychic Brotherhood (While the GM is alive, all models in the formation harness Warp Charges on a 3+). It's only something viable in bigger games and the specific nature of the force means you've only got three mastery levels' worth of non-Sanctic powers to benefit from it.

NDKs will be the big thing for popping vehicles, but our answer for fliers is still going to be fliers of our own.



EDIT: Psylencer is rng24", S3, AP-, Heavy 6, Force. I wasn't joking about that. Funny how just that one word makes such a huuuuge difference to how we look at the weapon, huh.

Psilencer change is crazy. Force goes active and then you can make people pick up multi-wound squads, mc's, and characters alike. Wonder if the strength is higher for the Heavy Psilencer? As it is I wouldn't field it on a normal unit. I need those psycannons & incinerators.

Sad they didn't upgrade the range on the Psycannon when they shifted it to Salvo. Makes terminators more inviting.

Heavy Psycannon is better now. Hopefully we can double up on weapons on our DK's. DK's really are going to be the workhorse of this army.

Shift to St8 AP2 missiles on the stormraven is actually a good thing based on this codex. We need the anti-armor.

Overall I'm cautiously optomistic based on this info.

AP2 on draigo + points drop is huge. Especially if he can take that fancy-schmancy Curiass of Sacrifice.

Why bother giving a Monstrous Creature a weapon with a salvo profile?

Psilencer seems to be S3.... A lot of the multiwound targets have high T.

Draigo seems fine. Problem is the LOW slot and allowing it in GTs.

That's why I was curious about the Heavy version. It's doubtful I'd ever put it on a PA or TA model simply because psycannons are needed more. But I'd consider it on a big guy depending on number of shots & strength.

S3 psilencers are essentially worthless except for that lucky roll of 6 to wound (the intended target of force is usually t5 or t6 ). Which requires at least 2 psilencer to target that unit...

well maybe not worthless but not reliable

 Hulksmash wrote:
Psilencer change is crazy. Force goes active and then you can make people pick up multi-wound squads, mc's, and characters alike. Wonder if the strength is higher for the Heavy Psilencer? As it is I wouldn't field it on a normal unit. I need those psycannons & incinerators.

Sad they didn't upgrade the range on the Psycannon when they shifted it to Salvo. Makes terminators more inviting.

Heavy Psycannon is better now. Hopefully we can double up on weapons on our DK's. DK's really are going to be the workhorse of this army.

Shift to St8 AP2 missiles on the stormraven is actually a good thing based on this codex. We need the anti-armor.

Overall I'm cautiously optomistic based on this info.

Psilencer is HUGE, however it still is Heavy AP-, it will be hard to get into position, but if you do lots of MC are going to be biting the dust.

...but psybolt is really gone? GODDAMN, time to take off the heavy bolters for me vehicles and give them lascannons... or take them as rhinos. Wait that means psyflame is gone also; NOOO MY LAND RAIDER REDEEMER.

Not a fan of how they're pushing the Dreadknight on us.

EDIT: Also halberds... not that attractive anymore, the more I read this the more it looks like they wanted to make the Grey Knights less reliant on upgrades, but rather on a greater number of bodies... I'm going to taking the psycannons off my SS especially if the Salvo range is 12/24, workhorse of the army is just dead right there

Latest rolling in:

Oh, I only just noticed this. Greatsword is a Specialist Weapon that's master-crafted. Looks like it's not worth the upgrade anymore. The vanilla pair of Powerfists (Yes, they retconned Nemesis Doomfists!!) are a better option.

Only formations are the WD-spoiled one and the Brotherhood I posted earlier (which is strikeforce but better, with restrictions).

The Aegis is as per the FAQ, all GKs have Purity of Spirit (Which is just the rule that means GKs only Perils by rolling two or more 6's when using Sanctic powers unless otherwise stated (I think this means they'd still Perils if they failed to cast Vortex of Doom).

TGS is the warlord chart, basically. Warlord traits are:

1) Daemon-slayer- Warlord gains Hatred: Daemons and when casting Banishment, harnesses Warp Charges on a 2+

2) Hammer of Riteousness- Warlord and unit have Hammer of Wrath

3) Unyielding Anvil- Warlord and GKs within 12" have Stubborn

4) First to the Fray- A nod to poor Mordrak, Warlord and unit automatically arrive first turn when Deep Striking and can reroll the scatter

5) Perfect Timing- Warlord and unit gain Counterattack

6) Lore Master- Warlord knows one more psychic power than normal, must be generated from Sanctic

Bionicman, on 19 Aug 2014 - 3:26 PM, said:
Yeah, thank you Brovius for your efforts.
Psilencer is S3 ???

Sorry, typo. Psylencer is still S4. Storm Raven is still Fast Attack.

I skipped past this earlier when I was talking about the BHC, but Heroic Sacrifice is back in a lesser form. It's not tied to a psychic test but it's just a single attack, rolling to hit and wound normally. No instagibbing EW models, sadly. Herald of Titan is also gone. I also missed where Crowe has The Perfect Warrior too, so he does have to always issue/accept challenges (he's a challenge king anyway, since he gets AP2 from Smash and rerollable saves from Blade Parry).