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BeefCakeSoup wrote:Weapon in context.

Mantas are not the counter to a Titan. Can they counter a Titan? Hell yes they can, but I would put a Barracuda more in keeping with a vessel meant for dealing with Titans.

Even then, one Tau Soldier in an XV88 Battlesuit can put the hurt on a Titan. Several teams can put one down.


Mantas carry a standard loadout for what they do, a low flying fleet craft that drops small armies off needs to have the ability to cover hot LZs. Although they can be quickly retrofitted for maximum punkage. Sorry if those same weapons dunk on Titans.


No getting around it, Tau technology craps on Imperium technology in War.

I won't even get into how rediculous Battlesuit technology is. Suffice to say, they have weapons that turn Terminator Armor into piles of goo.

I will concede that the tau have more advanced tech. But if you look at the codexes, the IoM out range in all but personal weapons. And if you look at the fluff, its mainly IoM victories. The Space marines beat the tau at mobile warfare. While a good army, they can't stand against the might of the IoM

Edit: Thats called plasma guns btw. The thing that turns termies to goo.

BeefCakeSoup wrote:Weapon in context.

Mantas are not the counter to a Titan. Can they counter a Titan? Hell yes they can, but I would put a Barracuda more in keeping with a vessel meant for dealing with Titans.

Uh, no. Barracudas are air superiority fighters.

Saying that "a Barracuda is more in keeping with a vessel meant for dealing with Titans" is like saying that the B-25 Flying Fortress was "meant to provide close air support".
You're looking for the "Tiger Shark" for CAS roles, and the standard Tiger Shark was ineffective against the Warhound. The Tau had to cannibalize wrecked Hammerhead weaponry and upgun the ammunition in order to make the AX-1-0 variant.

Even then, one Tau Soldier in an XV88 Battlesuit can put the hurt on a Titan. Several teams can put one down.

And once again, the Tau have only ever encountered Warhound Titans.

The Guard can bring down Warhounds, and regularly do, using their Leman Russes. This isn't anything special despite, what you seem to think.

Mantas carry a standard loadout for what they do, a low flying fleet craft that drops small armies off needs to have the ability to cover hot LZs.

They can't "cover hot LZs" with anything beyond their sheer size. Mantas don't actually land at the frontlines, same as Thunderhawks or Imperial bulk landers do not.
There's a reason that the Devilfish, Hammerheads, and Crisis Suits all have vectored engines allowing them to slow a descent.

Although they can be quickly retrofitted for maximum punkage. Sorry if those same weapons dunk on Titans.

Once again: Tau have not encountered any real war Titans. They've encountered Scout Titans only. And even then, it took multiple Mantas to bring down a Warhound Titan.

No getting around it, Tau technology craps on Imperium technology in War.

It doesn't hurt that every engagement the Tau have also outnumbered the Imperium and never actually engaged them in any measured battles.
The Tau have only fought harassment campaigns, no pitched battles.

Oh, but of course "that's the Tau strategy!". So why are they worried about Titans then?

I won't even get into how rediculous Battlesuit technology is. Suffice to say, they have weapons that turn Terminator Armor into piles of goo.

Uhhuh.
You know who else has "weapons that turn Terminator Armor into piles of goo"?
Every freaking race in 40k.

Yeah, I have to say: Tau may not pose a threat at all now, but I have a feeling they might even eclipse the Imperium in the future. If they continue to grow, technologically and in numbers, they may pose a serious threat. Really, though, it all boils down to how GW chooses to expand them in the future.

Eldar are the past, Imperium is the present, Tau are the future. Seems logical.

Weapon in context.

Mantas are not the counter to a Titan. Can they counter a Titan? Hell yes they can, but I would put a Barracuda more in keeping with a vessel meant for dealing with Titans.

Barracudas? Titan hunters? Are you joking? They pack seeker missiles and an Ion Cannon and are meant for bursting tanks and bunkers from the air (similarly to modern day bombers), not for assaulting something with enough weaponry to blow it out of the sky 1000 times over.

The Tiger Shark AX-1-0 is the Tau's answer to Titans. The original Tiger Shark was meant to simply launch drones from its holding bay, all that had to be ripped out and 2 heavy duty railguns fitted because nothing else worked.

Even then, one Tau Soldier in an XV88 Battlesuit can put the hurt on a Titan. Several teams can put one down.

Do you know why several teams can put one down? Railguns. Do you know how many 'several teams' will likely consist of? If the numbers of Tau needed to draw a stalemate are anything to go by, i'd say it's about 30-50 spread across the battlefield before the Princeps of a titan even breaks a sweat. One titan weapon can and will wipe those broadsides out of existance, and are far, far longer ranged than a railgun.

If you want a compariosn of fleets, check this excerpt from the Tau Battlefleet Gothic Fluff:

"The Orks however posed a major problem. Their ships were faster, better shielded and more heavily armed."

That is Orks, the Imperium's fleet out-everything Ork fleets bar number, and when you imaginae that the Orks once posed a huge threat to Tau with their ramshackle craft...

Now another excerpt about the Hero class Starship:

"The pinnacle of Tau technology, the
Hero class was the product of Tau
experience during the Damocles Gulf
Crusade. The Tau were determined that
they should have a ship that could match
the Imperial Lunar class. As it became
evident, they failed but they did succeed in
producing a credible ship of the line."

The Lunar Class is a relatively low/mid-line Imperial cruiser, and they failed to match it, yet you still say Tau>Imperium?

Cybronx wrote:Yeah, I have to say: Tau may not pose a threat at all now, but I have a feeling they might even eclipse the Imperium in the future. If they continue to grow, technologically and in numbers, they may pose a serious threat. Really, though, it all boils down to how GW chooses to expand them in the future.

Mankind is the past, Imperium is the present, Mankind are the future. Seems logical.

Fixed by the Moral Office.


But jokes aside it makes sense.

Kilkrazy wrote:Every codex makes that army sound the best. It's part of the sales pitch.

Who would buy a codex that made the army out to be a bunch of useless idiots who got killed all the time?

Isn't the fluff section of the Tyranid codex basically "Hive Fleet Scary Monster ate a couple of dozen worlds, and then Tiny Ramshackle Force soundly defeated it with minimal losses" repeated several times?

No getting around it, Tau technology craps on Imperium technology in War.

Let's see...

Imperial vs. Tau tanks? Imperium wins. The Leman Russ is the master of tank warfare due to sheer efficiency and versatility, as it is a cheap to produce, durable, mobile, powerful, and easy to use masterpiece of a main battle tank. The Tau Hammerhead may potentially be able to destroy it, but then, the same could be said of the Leman Russ Vanquisher on the Tau Hammerhead. And the Leman Russ is able to fulfill many other roles as well.

Imperial artillery vs Tau artillery? Imperium without a doubt. Tau don't like to use artillery to begin with, and don't have any dedicated artillery units except possibly the skyray-- and the Imperium does better than that with the Exorcist, whose payload is deadlier and has more ammunition for sustained barrages.

Imperial vs Tau powered armor? Generally Imperium wins. Tau have limited mobility in their battlesuits without their jump jets, meanwhile Imperial power armor is like wearing a second skin, even for unaugmented humans it becomes quite instinctive to move around in. And yes, the Imperium has a similar technology to the Stealth Suit, it's utilized by the Deathwatch and the Ordo Xenos primarily. And Imperial Power armor is miniaturized compared to Tau power armor to boot.

Imperial vs Tau plasma? Neither is better. One sacrifices power for safety, the other one prefers overkill. The Imperial weapon is better suited as a special weapon, killing power armored enemies with ease, while the Tau version is better suited as a basic weapon. Even the plasma rifle used by the Tau is less powerful than the most basic plasma gun used by the Imperium-- and the Imperium has the plasma cannon, which the Tau have no real equivalent of. Used by a vehicle, Imperial plasma weaponry is downright superior to the Tau versions.


The Imperium also makes better use of defensive positions and implements, from heavy weapons to quickly deployable barricades and trenches for cover; the Tau in comparison would sooner abandon a position than be forced to defend it.





The common Imperial Guardsman may not himself have the most amazing equipment in the galaxy in his hands... but he's supported by an immensely efficient mass-murdering machine that is the Imperial Guard as a whole, whom have far more combat experience and a history warring with the deadliest forces in the galaxy quite a few times longer than the existence of the Tau on planets off of their homeworld.

Right now, no.

but thier fluff and rules are out of date, next codex, we might see some fire power coming from the fish men!

We seem to have covered all the issues, again.

The next Tau thread will present the same information to you shortly after this one has dropped off page one.