Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 judgedoug wrote:
Saw the thread title change, any particular reason? Seems like the overwhelming majority of backers got their pledges shipped and received months ago and now there are a few outliers.

If you regard "about a hundred known and an unknown number of unknown cases" as "a few outliers", sure.
Plus there's the whole "not a single word out of Hawk since Dec 22" thing.

I updated it to be a bit clearer now, but yeah, still a bit to go to call fulfillment complete here... although they've obviously made great progress towards that point. Hopefully they can finish the missing orders this month!

Well, they did claim I'll have it at the end of this week. Shipping from UK to Germany takes about a week... no shipping notice as of yet.

I think that the KS has shown that Hawk really need to hire a manager, someone who can actually organise things properly and knows what needs to be done before it needs to be done.

I find it amazing that Hawk was unaware of the process involved in shipping models until they actually started to ship models.....

A manager costs money, from a business point of view for this project it makes zero sense for Hawk.

There seems to be constant genuine surprise amongst gamers when small companies promise too much and become overwhelmed by the KS success..... It would have taken Hawk o e afternoon to figure that a large number of add ons and multiple shipping waves was going to cause hell.

 TwilightSparkles wrote:
A manager costs money, from a business point of view for this project it makes zero sense for Hawk.

There seems to be constant genuine surprise amongst gamers when small companies promise too much and become overwhelmed by the KS success..... It would have taken Hawk o e afternoon to figure that a large number of add ons and multiple shipping waves was going to cause hell.

Just like I tell my kids, if you can't keep your word and not do what you say, you don't make promises you can't keep. Like really, does Dave have to be treated like a little boy now? We have to make excuses for him now?

It's funny. I didn't buy get into his kickstarter but from the excitement of this thread I bought his game when I saw it on the store. The day after is when I kept reading how people are not getting their orders. I can't even touch this game right now, knowing others want it so bad and don't have it.

Weird I know. So I am hoping people will get their orders so I can finally start putting the ships together.

Davor wrote:

 TwilightSparkles wrote:
A manager costs money, from a business point of view for this project it makes zero sense for Hawk.

There seems to be constant genuine surprise amongst gamers when small companies promise too much and become overwhelmed by the KS success..... It would have taken Hawk o e afternoon to figure that a large number of add ons and multiple shipping waves was going to cause hell.

Just like I tell my kids, if you can't keep your word and not do what you say, you don't make promises you can't keep. Like really, does Dave have to be treated like a little boy now? We have to make excuses for him now?

Don't think anyone is making excuses for Dave. He explained in detail on BoW why things happened the way it did. Every KS promises tons of stuff but 90% of them never do all they promise, that's kickstarter.

str00dles1 wrote:
Don't think anyone is making excuses for Dave. He explained in detail on BoW why things happened the way it did. Every KS promises tons of stuff but 90% of them never do all they promise, that's kickstarter.

Fair enough. Thing is, doesn't he have his own website? How come he needed a different site than his own to explain it? He could have explained it there. Maybe he did, and I am wrong then again. But if not you shouldn't have to go to a place like Bells of Lost Souls or a lesser known place like BoW. Thing is, he can also be sending and replying to the people's emails as well instead of acting like a politician and lying by saying "all invoices or notices are sent" when it is clearly not the case. Again, if he erred on that part and thought everything was sent, he should know by know that is not the case and man up and do the right thing.

It's one of those, you can take their money, you can bloody well email them and let them know what is going on. No excuse for that at all. If it's too hard to email, then it's to hard to take their money. He had no problems taking their money if I am correct.

It doesn't matter if this is how Kickstarter is done. Thing is, I supported this guy buy buying his product on how people said he is a gamer, a stand up guy and supported someone who was a small business. What was the saying, a game made by a gamer?

Sadly his business practices is even worse than GW practices. I lost so much respect for the guy. Guess money do change people.

Beasts of War isn't a lesser known site, for the UK at least (where Hawk Wargames are based.) In fact, they are really the only major general wargaming news channel in the UK. Just about the only other thing Dave could have done to get a wider circulation would be to post it in Tabletop Gaming magazine - which comes out once a season.

And considering there's a kickstarter update (#63) called "Dave has made a video for all backers" one would think that would cover those directly involved too and BoW had the infrastructure to do a 'proper' video. I'm just imagining the whinging that would result if Dave had just done that on home via a facebook video or a periscope!

To be fair, Kickstarter videos are the worst and no backer should ever feel pressured into watching them.

Or maybe that's just me. I hate it when KS creators expect me to watch their videos. The only reason I can look at your site is because the wife and kid is sleeping, so don't think I'm going to risk waking them for your stupid videos, especially you, Poots.

Davor wrote:

str00dles1 wrote:
Don't think anyone is making excuses for Dave. He explained in detail on BoW why things happened the way it did. Every KS promises tons of stuff but 90% of them never do all they promise, that's kickstarter.

Fair enough. Thing is, doesn't he have his own website? How come he needed a different site than his own to explain it? He could have explained it there. Maybe he did, and I am wrong then again. But if not you shouldn't have to go to a place like Bells of Lost Souls or a lesser known place like BoW. Thing is, he can also be sending and replying to the people's emails as well instead of acting like a politician and lying by saying "all invoices or notices are sent" when it is clearly not the case. Again, if he erred on that part and thought everything was sent, he should know by know that is not the case and man up and do the right thing.

It's one of those, you can take their money, you can bloody well email them and let them know what is going on. No excuse for that at all. If it's too hard to email, then it's to hard to take their money. He had no problems taking their money if I am correct.

It doesn't matter if this is how Kickstarter is done. Thing is, I supported this guy buy buying his product on how people said he is a gamer, a stand up guy and supported someone who was a small business. What was the saying, a game made by a gamer?

Sadly his business practices is even worse than GW practices. I lost so much respect for the guy. Guess money do change people.

I could understand the rage from say a actual backer, but you bought the product at retail. I hardly think the hate is justified. I was a backer. Someone who put 500$ into this. I also waited 2 months as everyone I knew got their stuff and everyone was playing and loving it. Even more so frustrated when the battle cruisers released retail, and still I had nothing. Shortly after my pledge finally came.

Compel gave the reasons, but ill reiterate them. BoW (Beasts of War) is not a lesser known site. More so one of the most known sites for gaming. they have worked with Dave for years for Dropzone, so it made sense to use what BoW has to make vids on Dropfleet. Hes a designer, and creator for all of the models, that's his job among being CEO. Its now 6-7 people company. They have a email person going through hundreds and hundreds of emails a day (As the video explains).Backers spamming asking for their stuff every day doesent help the persons job on going through the emails. They have also recently said more people are going through emails as there is far less packing.

Hes not going to sit there and reply to every person. He has minis to create, as the company needs to keep producing models to be successful. This is why he made a video on BoW and there is KS updates, as blanket statements from him. This KS, while very profitable, stopped many releases for their more popular game, Dropzone from coming out.

Your acting like he stole peoples money. People gave him it to get a product. Kickstarter isn't a preorder service. If it comes to you before, retail great! but your fronting the money to get extra stuff and help create a project.

To relate this and whats happened to Games Workshop is pretty ridiculous. they have done horrible/stupid things to their players for DECADES.

It sucks for the people who have had problems, and still waiting, as I was one but all of what your saying is way off base. You invested in a retail product that is there because of people like myself and thousands of others who put the cash up front to it could become a reality.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
To be fair, Kickstarter videos are the worst and no backer should ever feel pressured into watching them.

Or maybe that's just me. I hate it when KS creators expect me to watch their videos. The only reason I can look at your site is because the wife and kid is sleeping, so don't think I'm going to risk waking them for your stupid videos, especially you, Poots.

The videos on the main page I never watch, but when there is a update from the company CEO to tell you about whats going on...you should be watching it.

str00dles1 wrote:

Davor wrote:

str00dles1 wrote:
Don't think anyone is making excuses for Dave. He explained in detail on BoW why things happened the way it did. Every KS promises tons of stuff but 90% of them never do all they promise, that's kickstarter.

Fair enough. Thing is, doesn't he have his own website? How come he needed a different site than his own to explain it? He could have explained it there. Maybe he did, and I am wrong then again. But if not you shouldn't have to go to a place like Bells of Lost Souls or a lesser known place like BoW. Thing is, he can also be sending and replying to the people's emails as well instead of acting like a politician and lying by saying "all invoices or notices are sent" when it is clearly not the case. Again, if he erred on that part and thought everything was sent, he should know by know that is not the case and man up and do the right thing.

It's one of those, you can take their money, you can bloody well email them and let them know what is going on. No excuse for that at all. If it's too hard to email, then it's to hard to take their money. He had no problems taking their money if I am correct.

It doesn't matter if this is how Kickstarter is done. Thing is, I supported this guy buy buying his product on how people said he is a gamer, a stand up guy and supported someone who was a small business. What was the saying, a game made by a gamer?

Sadly his business practices is even worse than GW practices. I lost so much respect for the guy. Guess money do change people.

I could understand the rage from say a actual backer, but you bought the product at retail. I hardly think the hate is justified. I was a backer. Someone who put 500$ into this. I also waited 2 months as everyone I knew got their stuff and everyone was playing and loving it. Even more so frustrated when the battle cruisers released retail, and still I had nothing. Shortly after my pledge finally came.

Compel gave the reasons, but ill reiterate them. BoW (Beasts of War) is not a lesser known site. More so one of the most known sites for gaming. they have worked with Dave for years for Dropzone, so it made sense to use what BoW has to make vids on Dropfleet. Hes a designer, and creator for all of the models, that's his job among being CEO. Its now 6-7 people company. They have a email person going through hundreds and hundreds of emails a day (As the video explains).Backers spamming asking for their stuff every day doesent help the persons job on going through the emails. They have also recently said more people are going through emails as there is far less packing.

Hes not going to sit there and reply to every person. He has minis to create, as the company needs to keep producing models to be successful. This is why he made a video on BoW and there is KS updates, as blanket statements from him. This KS, while very profitable, stopped many releases for their more popular game, Dropzone from coming out.

Your acting like he stole peoples money. People gave him it to get a product. Kickstarter isn't a preorder service. If it comes to you before, retail great! but your fronting the money to get extra stuff and help create a project.

Of course it is a pre-order Service. Just because it is not explicitly stated as this HAWK explicitly uses this accordingly. It certainly don't give them the right to treat me like gak (e.g. they obviously are able to answer mails about retail but ignore KS mails) and break their own promises (to reiterate: I didn't demand that I receive my packages before retail. They promised this. And most likely the majority wouldn't have been as bitter as they are if they hadn't to wait MONTHS before getting their packages)

To relate this and whats happened to Games Workshop is pretty ridiculous. they have done horrible/stupid things to their players for DECADES.

It sucks for the people who have had problems, and still waiting, as I was one but all of what your saying is way off base. You invested in a retail product that is there because of people like myself and thousands of others who put the cash up front to it could become a reality.

So, then I'm not a buyer but an Investor. I'm quite sure that usual investors shouldn't be handled like this. Using Crowdfunding does not excuse unprofessional behaviour (like such miserable communication).

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
To be fair, Kickstarter videos are the worst and no backer should ever feel pressured into watching them.

Or maybe that's just me. I hate it when KS creators expect me to watch their videos. The only reason I can look at your site is because the wife and kid is sleeping, so don't think I'm going to risk waking them for your stupid videos, especially you, Poots.

The videos on the main page I never watch, but when there is a update from the company CEO to tell you about whats going on...you should be watching it.

It's a frigging 40 Minute Video. On a site I don't particularly like because I find those guys obnoxious. Use the damn platform you started this on. It's essentially an Information for backers anyways.

I really and honestly do not mind delays in kickstarters. That's part of the deal to get games/stuff get made. Sometimes I save money but I do not care THAT much about that though.

What pisses me off are two things:

1. The game has been out for MONTHS to the general public and maybe hundreds of backers do not have it. It thus is nut a problem of producing too few, it's simply a problem of allocating resources.

2. Lying about the process. Lying and just not communicating.
Warpath from Mantic had/has an equally long delay. I DIDNT CARE AT ALL. Because Mantic made it quite clear and informed the backers about everything.

This KS was not a pre-order. It was made clear from day one that it speeds up production. And they made clear that they will try to release the backer stuff before retail if nothing gets in between. Well some problems showed up. Sadly retail got it earlier, but the alternative would have been withholding the placed orders of shops and maybe risking the everyday-business that a company needs to stay alive. I rather prefer a company looks for its survival than some fleeting street-cred.

From what it looks like, less than 10% of the backers do not have their pledges. There is and never will be a KS where all backers will get their products fully in time. Just changing adresses etc. makes this impossible. Even wy bigger companies in other areas these days have problems getting products out in time. Just check when smartphones are announcedfor realease and when the y really release.

What some people seem to ignore is the fact that these days business is extremly interlocked and that one hickup can mess up all the rest. That´s what happened here. If everything would have been perfect we all would have gotten our stuff in time. But this is no perfect world.

That´s nothing to cheer about, but also no reason to wish them into hell.

And no amount of carefull planing can prepare you for the one hickup that avalanches through your schedule...

They did not lie. They told you what they thought would be the outcome in the near future.

Working in this business I do know quite well how one small thing can influence the realease of something.

And sorry.... but some guys here never will be happy, only when they are able to complain they seem to be really happy. Customer is king, sure, but some are just nasty and sometimes need to be reminded that they are not the center of the world.

I'm not angry at the delay in my pledge, I was however disappointed in the communication. I've emailed numerous times, not because I desperately need an answer right this second, but because there's no automated response stating they've received my communication or a kickstarter update stating replies take on average 60 days or whatever and contact after then. I had no idea if my email was going anywhere or had wandered into the ether.

Throughout the campaign again communication was the issue. Again I don't mind when things are delayed. However communicate primarily through kickstarter updates. So much information throughout the campaign was distributed via Beasts of War, Instagram or word of mouth from conventions. A five minute update would have sufficed 90% of the time.

 Duncan_Idaho wrote:
And they made clear that they will try to release the backer stuff before retail if nothing gets in between.

Please point specifically where this (and especially the bolded part) was stated.

From what it looks like, less than 10% of the backers do not have their pledges. There is and never will be a KS where all backers will get their products fully in time. Just changing adresses etc. makes this impossible.

As I pointed out before there was no change in my adress no special character no nothing... They simply fethed up BIG TIME.

SKR.HH wrote:

 Duncan_Idaho wrote:
And they made clear that they will try to release the backer stuff before retail if nothing gets in between.

Please point specifically where this (and especially the bolded part) was stated.

From what it looks like, less than 10% of the backers do not have their pledges. There is and never will be a KS where all backers will get their products fully in time. Just changing adresses etc. makes this impossible.

As I pointed out before there was no change in my adress no special character no nothing... They simply fethed up BIG TIME.

Just because your address didn't change, doesn't mean many others didn't also. From the FB groups, there's been tons of people asking what to do because they moved.

Also your previous mention of this being a preorder service is wrong, still. If you believe any minis game is going to be a preorder on KS, you haven't done many of them then. None of them arrive before retail or on time. I KSed Masorma from Cool Mini or not. Didn't get any extra addons besides what was given, and that game went retail back at Gencon 16. And im still waiting for my game.

They messed up, which is a fact, but for all you people who are raging over it is just silly. Get facts straight before freaking out.

I am soooo sorry that i had to move. It is suuuch a tough Thing for them to do.

 Duncan_Idaho wrote:
This KS was not a pre-order. It was made clear from day one that it speeds up production.

Pre-Order = I send the manufacturer money before a product is available.
Kickstarter = I send the manufacturer money before a product is available.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

And they made clear that they will try to release the backer stuff before retail if nothing gets in between. Well some problems showed up. Sadly retail got it earlier,

I was not bothered when this was first announced, under the impression that I would be getting my pledge a week or two after it hit retain. Now that its been a couple months since it hit retail (and they have managed to produce and distribute to retail additional product beyond the KS) you will excuse me if I'm less forgiving.

From what it looks like, less than 10% of the backers do not have their pledges. There is and never will be a KS where all backers will get their products fully in time.

Nothing done by humans will ever be perfect, but I've pledged quite a few KS before this. None of them had hundreds of people with no idea where their pledges were months after the product has been released. Some people did indeed change addresses but many of them notified Hawk before the pledges were sent out, and many others never changed their addresses and these people are still waiting for some sort of response.

That´s nothing to cheer about, but also no reason to wish them into hell.

I don't wish them ill, I hope Hawk and this game continue to flourish. That does not change the fact that they screwed this Kickstarter up and many, many people have every reason to be upset with them.

They did not lie. They told you what they thought would be the outcome in the near future.

They did not lie but they have consistently failed in keeping their backers informed. The current month long gap since any sort of update is not only unacceptable, it is not the first time in this process they have failed to make any effort to keep backers informed.

Less than 10% (if you actually believe that) is several HUNDRED of people. That is quite a lot


I actually think they lied to us. They lied to us about prioritizing KS over reteail. They lied to us about how many stuff they pack and ship every week. They lied to us about keeping us informed.

str00dles1 wrote:

SKR.HH wrote:

 Duncan_Idaho wrote:
And they made clear that they will try to release the backer stuff before retail if nothing gets in between.

Please point specifically where this (and especially the bolded part) was stated.

From what it looks like, less than 10% of the backers do not have their pledges. There is and never will be a KS where all backers will get their products fully in time. Just changing adresses etc. makes this impossible.

As I pointed out before there was no change in my adress no special character no nothing... They simply fethed up BIG TIME.

Just because your address didn't change, doesn't mean many others didn't also. From the FB groups, there's been tons of people asking what to do because they moved.

Also your previous mention of this being a preorder service is wrong, still. If you believe any minis game is going to be a preorder on KS, you haven't done many of them then. None of them arrive before retail or on time. I KSed Masorma from Cool Mini or not. Didn't get any extra addons besides what was given, and that game went retail back at Gencon 16. And im still waiting for my game.

They messed up, which is a fact, but for all you people who are raging over it is just silly. Get facts straight before freaking out.

I wouldn't have minded a limited release at some conventions. But having it available for general sale FOR MONTHS before they actually sorted out the pledges is a NO-GO for me... And as you can read throughout the thread there are other wh think like me.

And actually I've done more than 50 miniature based Kickstarter projects... And HAWK is easily in the top five contenders for worst experience!

 TwilightSparkles wrote:
A manager costs money, from a business point of view for this project it makes zero sense for Hawk.

They raised £629222 on the KS, 15 times their target so they could have easily afforded someone competent to run the packaging and delivery aspects of the KS, even for 3-4 months. It makes perfect sense because without someone who knows what they are doing you end up with the shambles that the KS turned into, entirely due to their piss poor admin and apparent ignorance.

RoninXiC wrote:
Less than 10% (if you actually believe that) is several HUNDRED of people. That is quite a lot

I actually think they lied to us. They lied to us about prioritizing KS over reteail. They lied to us about how many stuff they pack and ship every week. They lied to us about keeping us informed.

Hanlon's Razor applies; "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." Lying implies a willful intent to mislead for some form of gain. Hawk gains nothing by misleading backers other than bad press and dissatisfied customers which are decidedly NOT gains in any way. Did they never make the product? No, based on others we know most every product exists. Are they stringing backers along because they don't have any money? Likely not, given how it still seems to be selling decently in stores they're probably in decent financial shape. Are they hoarding things so they can send them to retail outlets? Doesn't appear to be the case as people are getting their pledges just at a mind-bogglingly slow rate. I don't see much malice evidenced in their actions or the situation in general.

I do believe they are simply out of their depth on how to deal with things. My feeling is that they don't really know what broke, how badly it broke and thus they have no way of knowing what their exit strategy is because the problem(s) aren't fully defined. It's not malicious so much as an incredibly typical overestimation of their abilities; it's insanely common when it comes to logistics across many companies and people. They are falling back in a very typical "if I just work on the problem then it will be fixed that much faster" mindset, but in that model communication channels, which typically suck at the best of times in most organizations, become even more chaotic. They also become afraid of bothering the 90% that have their things as that's unforced damage to annoy them, while at the same time needing to communicate to the backers that have problems while not really knowing exactly who all of those people are.

I'm not saying that excuses a month-long comms blackout by any stretch (especially with some products still not delivered at all to any backers who paid for them), just that I don't see where they're trying to cheat anyone out of what they're owed or fade away into the night. Woefully inadequate planning? Sure. A strong case to apply far greater scrutiny any future crowdfunding/pre-order support for the company? Absolutely. Intent on their part to make this outcome happen? Not in the slightest.

Of course they get something by lying. They're trying to keep things low profile. Without the internet, no one really would've noticed that HUNDREDS of people still do not have their stuff.

By lying, they're trying to keep people silent so they do not complain about it, tell their friends not support the company and so on.

I don't give a zerglings butt why this got messed up this badly. What I care about is my stuff I payed for way too long ago.

If I hadn't complained over and over again... If I hadn't tricked them into replying to a DropZONE Commander E-Mail, I probably would still not have gotten any kind of feedback from them.

Again: I needed to TRICK them into replying to me. It took them half a day to answer my DropZONE E-Mail, but they're not able to answer DropFLEET E-Mails for months? It's 100% clear that they do NOT care that much.

Except posting a video to a well-known gaming site where the CEO basically goes "we messed up a lot of things" and mentioning in their updates that their continue to be problems with some people, yes, they are clearly trying to keep things low profile. Or...completely not that. I also doubt that the internet really played that big a part in the discovery. Mantic found a similar problem in Dungeon Saga and I don't recall tons of people mentioning it prior. Likely as they began to notice multiple people reporting they hadn't received anything the common thread would have been uncovered.

Not giving people product is a guaranteed way to ENSURE they complain and tell all their friends about it. It doesn't matter if people who have their stuff know what's going on; the wronged party will make sure all and sundry know they were wronged (such as...you, right now). Hawk isn't saying "shut up or we'll lose your pledge again" so what would any backer who's out gain by remaining silent? Also, Robotech's KS amply shows how negativity will fill a vacuum, so even saying nothing is no safeguard against ill-will and in fact allows it to fester.

You're also reading quite a great deal into "ah hah! Someone replied to a general question about a flagship product but not my specific inquiry on a project that's mired in logistical failures!" Hawk actually stated they've reduced the team working on DFC. Undoubtedly that was done to keep many hands out of the pie and making things even worse as they try to untangle the mess they've found. Thus, it would be wholly unsurprising to learn that not everyone in the company actually has knowledge of what's going on with the DFC process at the moment. They see a subject line they CAN act on to remove it from the list of things the sods trying to fix DFC have to wade through and they do so. Obviously I can't know if that's absolute truth but it does seem more plausible than Hawk being out to screw you, specifically, when everyone agree an overwhelming majority of things are completed successfully. Again, incompetence generally trumps malice in these situations.

I am not saying you don't have a right to be frothing mad, nor to want the communication and product you deserve. I'm not even saying that Hawk doesn't deserve even more ire than they're getting for how they've mishandled things. I'm just saying that running off into wild conspiracy theories because you're rightfully mad really isn't accomplishing anything other than perhaps raising your blood pressure and lowering your life expectancy which are likewise not really good things.

RoninXiC wrote:
Of course they get something by lying. They're trying to keep things low profile. Without the internet, no one really would've noticed that HUNDREDS of people still do not have their stuff.

By lying, they're trying to keep people silent so they do not complain about it, tell their friends not support the company and so on.

I don't give a zerglings butt why this got messed up this badly. What I care about is my stuff I payed for way too long ago.

If I hadn't complained over and over again... If I hadn't tricked them into replying to a DropZONE Commander E-Mail, I probably would still not have gotten any kind of feedback from them.

Again: I needed to TRICK them into replying to me. It took them half a day to answer my DropZONE E-Mail, but they're not able to answer DropFLEET E-Mails for months? It's 100% clear that they do NOT care that much.

1. Low profile? the lateness and anger is spread on here, their official site, etc. Everyone who backed the game knows how much they struggled with it. Why would they keep a low profile? There's nothing to hide. The CEO said they screwed up bad publically

2. Without the internet this wouldn't have been a Kickstarter, so your point is invalid there

3. Those hundred of people are spamming them with emails. Sending emails on a daily basis. You didn't "trick them" as you like to think. They are still supporting their main game Dropzone. Its easier to reply to a dropzone question then dropfleet at the moment as the dropfleet questions are " wheres my stuff" and they have to go look up and find if it shipped or not and track it down.

4. Its the life blood of the company for this to be successful, so saying they don't care is a highly uneducated of a statement.

5. They, as mentioned, gain NOTHING from trying to lie. They screwed up. Everyone knows this but they are not being malicious like you would like to think.

I get your frustrated as I was in the same boat, but spewing off hate and lies about isn't going to solve anything. Be frustrated at them, and express it, but support it with actual facts as opposed to this nonsense.

SKR.HH wrote:

And actually I've done more than 50 miniature based Kickstarter projects... And HAWK is easily in the top five contenders for worst experience!

That's... Wh--huh?

I hope you use your superlative luck to game the stock market.

I can think of at least ten that I've pledged for that were worse, and not only have I pledged for fewer than 50, I also was one of the forgotten few of this campaign. Yes, it sucks that Hawk thinks BOW is a genuine avenue of communication, and it sucks that they have Speedy Gonzales's cousin packing the shipments, but keep things in perspective: you know they will deliver, eventually, and you know the product will of worthy quality. Sell your rewards in spite of you want, but for the love of the innocent, please stop spreading the harmful notion that the DFC Kickstarter fulfillment drama is almost the worst thing that can happen to a pledger's money.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

SKR.HH wrote:

And actually I've done more than 50 miniature based Kickstarter projects... And HAWK is easily in the top five contenders for worst experience!

That's... Wh--huh?

I hope you use your superlative luck to game the stock market.

I can think of at least ten that I've pledged for that were worse, and not only have I pledged for fewer than 50, I also was one of the forgotten few of this campaign. Yes, it sucks that Hawk thinks BOW is a genuine avenue of communication, and it sucks that they have Speedy Gonzales's cousin packing the shipments, but keep things in perspective: you know they will deliver, eventually, and you know the product will of worthy quality. Sell your rewards in spite of you want, but for the love of the innocent, please stop spreading the harmful notion that the DFC Kickstarter fulfillment drama is almost the worst thing that can happen to a pledger's money.

How Do I know they will deliver when this is their first KS? I certainly have nowadays no doubt that CMoN will deliver because it's their umpteens KS. But here it was their first one.

I wrote exactly one mail to them and received a standard mail reading like "We're looking into it". Afterwards more than a month of radio silence until I received a shipping notice... From DPD... Not HAWK. That's not how you should treat your customers!

I wouldn't have made any fuss if they have sent me inbetween a.) a mail stating that they have recognized the error and that they found my pledge information and b.) that they pick/finished my pledge before receiving a shipping notice from postal service. From my point of view their process is seriously flawed. And having ordered from way smaller companies/taking part in kickstarters (i.e. one person companies) I know that there are way better solutions feasible even if you are small.

And while their quality is admittedly (way) above average it is certainly not stellar. So far I built the UCM ships (--> Yes I decided to keep at least the UCM and Scourge) and I was actually disappointed by certain design choices. Some examples: I was not able to cut the gun turrets from the sprues without damaging because the connection to the frames is in the middle of the cannon muzzle (?). And the design of the compartment for the troop Transporter leaves recognizable gaps that make me cringe everytime I look at the ship. So much to do to get this to a good standard.

SKR.HH wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

SKR.HH wrote:

And actually I've done more than 50 miniature based Kickstarter projects... And HAWK is easily in the top five contenders for worst experience!

That's... Wh--huh?

I hope you use your superlative luck to game the stock market.

I can think of at least ten that I've pledged for that were worse, and not only have I pledged for fewer than 50, I also was one of the forgotten few of this campaign. Yes, it sucks that Hawk thinks BOW is a genuine avenue of communication, and it sucks that they have Speedy Gonzales's cousin packing the shipments, but keep things in perspective: you know they will deliver, eventually, and you know the product will of worthy quality. Sell your rewards in spite of you want, but for the love of the innocent, please stop spreading the harmful notion that the DFC Kickstarter fulfillment drama is almost the worst thing that can happen to a pledger's money.

How Do I know they will deliver when this is their first KS? I certainly have nowadays no doubt that CMoN will deliver because it's their umpteens KS. But here it was their first one.

I wrote exactly one mail to them and received a standard mail reading like "We're looking into it". Afterwards more than a month of radio silence until I received a shipping notice... From DPD... Not HAWK. That's not how you should treat your customers!

I wouldn't have made any fuss if they have sent me inbetween a.) a mail stating that they have recognized the error and that they found my pledge information and b.) that they pick/finished my pledge before receiving a shipping notice from postal service. From my point of view their process is seriously flawed. And having ordered from way smaller companies/taking part in kickstarters (i.e. one person companies) I know that there are way better solutions feasible even if you are small.

And while their quality is admittedly (way) above average it is certainly not stellar. So far I built the UCM ships (--> Yes I decided to keep at least the UCM and Scourge) and I was actually disappointed by certain design choices. Some examples: I was not able to cut the gun turrets from the sprues without damaging because the connection to the frames is in the middle of the cannon muzzle (?). And the design of the compartment for the troop compartment leaves recognizable gaps that make me cringe everytime I look at the ship. So much to do to get this to a good standard.

Give me a reason they wouldn't deliver. Your saying they rather screw over some hundred people, never give them the KS? You realize that would ruin the company if they did that don't you? That's the opposite of what they want, so there is ZERO reason they would not deliver everyone their KS pledge

I don't get why you are making a fuss now. You got your stuff, so who cares? Their process sucks, we have beaten that horse to death, but your STILL trying to raise up pitch forks for Hawk even though you have your items

As to the quality, your just nitpicking to nitpick. Its multi part plastic models. I know a few people who have UCM and have had no assembly problems with the turrets or gaps issues. Seems like its a builder error.

Oh sorry. I didn't know that any comments about the KS experience and a critical assessment of quality are not allowed here.

I don't get why YOU are attacking me from telling about MY experience to inform OTHERS. Yes, I'm critical of the quality. I'm paying quite a high price for such models and according are my standards!

Share your experience. Let others decide who is right... But I won't certainly stop voicing my experience!