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 BrookM wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:
Good point! I'll be switching my pledge level at the end of the weekend lol.

Dining or living room?

Probably Dining Room, I want the rules, fate deck and Hannah. I'd love 2 copies of the rules, but I don't want 225 for it lol

Update: KS Comments from Wyrd:

Yes. Dining Room backers get a Special Edition Fate Deck, and Living Room and Gaming Room backers get another (total of 2).

 Alfndrate wrote:

 BrookM wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:
Good point! I'll be switching my pledge level at the end of the weekend lol.

Dining or living room?

Probably Dinging Room, I want the rules, fate deck and Hannah. I'd love 2 copies of the rules, but I don't want 225 for it lol

Update: KS Comments from Wyrd:

Yes. Dining Room backers get a Special Edition Fate Deck, and Living Room and Gaming Room backers get another (total of 2).

Alfndrate gets his own reward level! The fix is in!

Jerk

I got my own reward from the EFT kickstarter

Hmm, well, let's see how my prognostications worked out;

 Buzzsaw wrote:
Let's be clear, for people that think the value of the pledge levels is inadequate given the nature of the field, the last update has done... well, basically nothing to reassure such people that their concern is being heard. It's rather pointedly expressed that they ought to reconcile themselves to not being satisfied and look towards retail release instead,

Frankly, I don't actually believe that. I seriously doubt that they have the stones to "go Brom", as it were, and say "yup, what you see is what you get". I would be shocked if they don't add stretch goals, in fact, I would presume that tomorrows update will add multiple items to the mid-level pledges. If only because not doing so would be so brazen.

Well, a bit of a mixed bag there. Yup, they didn't stick with what they had and, yup, they added a bunch of things specifically to the mid-level pledges. But dang, these seem like some underwhelming stretch goals. Strange too.

$150,000: One (or one additional) Male or Female Multi-Pose Mini (random gender)

What? Why would this be random, and why one rather then a pair? They are adding a non-limited edition plastic kit piece, the cost to them for producing more of a piece they are already producing is literally measured in cents per unit.

$200,000: A Pad of Character Sheets

Again, a $50,000 stretch to add a value of cents to a $125 pledge.

Now, no doubt someone will interject that the cost of production of plastic bits and pads of paper are much more expensive then I am giving them credit for, so let's assume, arguendo, that they would add a cumulative cost of $5 per applicable pledge. Let's further assume they obtain the astronomical number of 5,000 backers (more then Relic Knights, more then Sedition Wars, just short of Zombicide's total).

So they are taking in $100,000 to add $25,000 value to their pledges. Now they lose some off the top there for fees, so let's be very charitable and say they new $80,000. So $55,000 goes to...?

Of course one might also object, and say that you have to consider that the pledge base contents themselves need to be paid for. Entirely true, but not really important here, since at the pledge price, it's pretty clear these pledges are paying for themselves and then some, they are not loss leaders. As Alf has pointed out several times, the $60 value of the books is a decent deal compared to the retail value of similar books. We can thus fairly safely presume that the production costs are substantially less.

What's so interesting about that calculation is that it shows, Wyrd's pretenses to the contrary, they are using this campaign as a store: at the end of the campaign, they will have made a pretty tidy profit from all this.

Nothing at all wrong with that... just a bit of humor.

 Buzzsaw wrote:
So they are taking in $100,000 to add $25,000 value to their pledges. Now they lose some off the top there for fees, so let's be very charitable and say they new $80,000. So $55,000 goes to...?

wait do you really not understand this?
that $100,000 isn't people who already pledged saying ooh i like this stretch goal lemmie just pledge extra money so it happens. that $100,000 is 800 more people who they have to produce books and mini's for, thats where the money goes, the extra minis and character sheets comes out of the wyrds profit.

 Buzzsaw wrote:
some valid points

I hadn't thought about it like that, but, yeah, it's not really sitting with me well.

The single(unless it has a vast number of options) random (huh?) seems a bit light. Maybe they'll add another one later or something?

The character sheets are nice, especially if they're a nice weight, but I've never had trouble printing PDFs for these, even if they're not pretty and in color. Having printed stuff, this is probably worth more in cost than it is to the average gamer (that is, the gamer's perceived value of this is less than how much it'll cost wyrd).

Both the fate deck and digital copies are nice, but really feel like they should have been included at the $60 point, especially the digital download.

The hanging tree is a bit mysterious. The kit came with 3 of differing sizes... not sure what this means. I'm also not incredibly happy with Wyrd's policy of reprinting special edition things, as it takes away from the value of them for people who got them initially.


I'm getting this terrible sinking feeling like when PP started sliding in a direction I no longer believed in or trusted. I'm really, really hoping that this isn't happening with Wyrd

I can't help but honk that these stretch goals are ways for wyrd to "address" the criticisms without ever admitting fault in their original pledge levels.

I think it's really lame that the digital copy comes so late. It should have been included or at the very least the first stretch goal. As the stretch goals go, I think it's incredibly disengenuous to include late stretch goals for funding levels that have already been met. In truth, I think all the stretch goals are lame save for the Hanging tree, which for me is interesting. Interesting in that it was like, $80 bucks at GenCon, which appeared to be way too much based on the volume they had left at the end of the convention.

Maybe I'm just cynical, but nothing from this update has swayed me. No info on page count. No sample...well... Anything.

 cincydooley wrote:
I can't help but honk that these stretch goals are ways for wyrd to "address" the criticisms without ever admitting fault in their original pledge levels.

Which is stupid. As far as Kickstarters go, admitting a mistake and fixing it "thanks to the community feedback" is about the best thing you can do to get those positive viral vibes.

Hell, even a Kickstarter that could've been designed flawless from the start should probably add a few "mistakes" for the community to fix, just so you can get the internet-badge of being someone who is "listening to your base". It's worth hard $$$ on Kickstarter.

 cincydooley wrote:
I can't help but honk that these stretch goals are ways for wyrd to "address" the criticisms without ever admitting fault in their original pledge levels.

I think it's really lame that the digital copy comes so late. It should have been included or at the very least the first stretch goal. As the stretch goals go, I think it's incredibly disengenuous to include late stretch goals for funding levels that have already been met. In truth, I think all the stretch goals are lame save for the Hanging tree, which for me is interesting. Interesting in that it was like, $80 bucks at GenCon, which appeared to be way too much based on the volume they had left at the end of the convention.

Maybe I'm just cynical, but nothing from this update has swayed me. No info on page count. No sample...well... Anything.

They have sample art, but everyone probably expects that style of art from Wyrd by now. They also do have the sample doll thing.

I was a bit annoyed by the limited edition hanging tree, got mine, but don't think I would have if I had seen it. Feels like maybe 50-60 would have been fine, since it is limited edition, but now it's not even limited :/

It's frustrating. I really want to be excited about this, but it's just not feeling right. Sedition wars was the only other big KS I've invested in, but the other big ones (kingdom death, reaper, the CMoN ones) have all been pretty exciting by comparison...

 Zweischneid wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
I can't help but honk that these stretch goals are ways for wyrd to "address" the criticisms without ever admitting fault in their original pledge levels.

Which is stupid. As far as Kickstarters go, admitting a mistake and fixing it "thanks to the community feedback" is about the best thing you can do to get those positive viral vibes.

Hell, even a Kickstarter that could've been designed flawless from the start should probably add a few "mistakes" for the community to fix, just so you can get the internet-badge of being someone who is "listening to your base". It's worth hard $$$ on Kickstarter.

But they didn't admit any fault. At all. Nor did they thank the community. At all. They simple added items as "stretch" goals--can it really be a stretch goal if you've already hit it by the time the goal is published?

In fact, do you know how they addressed the criticism? They said, "Well fine, you can get it through your LGS later on."




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 spiralingcadaver wrote:


It's frustrating. I really want to be excited about this, but it's just not feeling right. Sedition wars was the only other big KS I've invested in, but the other big ones (kingdom death, reaper, the CMoN ones) have all been pretty exciting by comparison...

Right with you. I want to be excited, but I'm having a lot of trouble with that.

I'm just putting this out there as a comparison

Sedition Wars, at $150k, bonuses for their $100 starter set:
29 minis, 3 of which are new sculpts, 1 large
plastic tokens
downloadable campaign

Zombiecide, at $140k, bonuses for their $100 starter set:
-shirt
-26 minis, 3 large, 3 exclusive new sculpts +6 small or 2 large
-6 dice
-downloadable campaign

Reaper at $135k for $100 set
16 extra minis plus some cheap large ones as options

Through the breach at $150k, for $125 starter
-1 deck upgraded to plastic
-1 plastic deck
-1 random small mini

Unless Wyrd comes out with something awesome at some high numbers, I'm going to be pretty disappointed.

Frankly.

Whatever (very legitimate) criticisms are voiced here, Through the Breach is doing stellar on Kickstarter.

Kicktraq is trending them towards just below 2 Million. That will surely fall as the "first day bump" gets a bit smoothed out with more "normal days" of funding, but they are well on their way to beat Numenera (I think?) as the highest-grossing Pen-and-Paper RPG on Kickstarter yet.

I'm glad they're doing well, because they've earned it, but I feel like they've earned it from other products, if that makes sense.

I'm curious to see how it goes once the limited edition mini isn't encouraging supporters (like me) from jumping on earlier than they might otherwise.

I'm very excited about the game (which I fully expect to have a lot of character and creative mechanics, like their other products have had), but not the kickstarter yet.

So looks like you'll still need to fork out a bare minimum of $125 if you want a single KS exclusive. Honestly? I just got into Malifaux and this KS is making me wonder if I shouldn't bother putting in any more effort. It seems like Wyrd wants to be another Games Workshop.

Very interesting how people are knocking this KS:

Some complained there was no PDF. They Added the PDF as a stretch goal. People still complain that they can't just get the PDFs and nothing more, when they aren't actually even unlocked yet. Someone even complained that they think the PDFs should come with the 60 pledge....answer: they do.

People complain that it doesn't have the value of Sedition Wars, Zombicide, <insert random miniature game here>. Value is subjective. Its an RPG that happens to offer some miniatures as incentives, but an RPG nontheless. I personally had pledged at 225 before I even realized it came with a second set of books. Then again, I'm a collector of things I happen to enjoy.

I even saw someone complain that they wanted the hardback and the minis but just didn't want to pay the extra for the 225. Welp, sorry, tough break for you. Maybe they will make some items add-ons, but if they don't well...that's how it goes.

I've seen countless complaints compairing the KD kickstarter to this one. For one, they aren;t even close to the same thing. Second, the Kingdom Death KS doesn't even feel like KD at all. There's no creepiness or weirdness to it, and certainly no NSFW themes that are so prevalent in pretty much the rest of the line. It doesn't even seem very violent. Its just some well sculpted miniatures and some add on packs so gamers can play Barbi with their toy men.

At least Through the Breach is pretty relevant to its game universe.

Are the pledge levels versatile? No, I have to admit, they should have a few more options, but sheesh, its what, the close of day 3? Give it a bit more time. Wyrd doesn't have some secret agenda to horde your monies like greedy little misers. They are making a quality game and if we get some neat exclusive extras along the way? Awesome.

But don't think that just because you pledged $20 or something that your entitled to the world. It doesn't work that way. If you like it, back it. If you have constructive criticism, cool, voice it. If you just want to continually complain like Buzzsaw, well...this is dakka and our members are well known for their legendary complaining. Don't forget to repost your irritating rants on Warseer, Bols, and all the other gaming sites too. If say you should rant on the backer comments, but I don't think you can see them. Your complaints are the best. Complaining about free stack of character sheets for an RPG that other companies sell for $10-$14? Really? Priceless.

To all the actual backers, I think its got a long way to go, and I for one can't wait to see how it turns out.

 Lansirill wrote:
So looks like you'll still need to fork out a bare minimum of $125 if you want a single KS exclusive. Honestly? I just got into Malifaux and this KS is making me wonder if I shouldn't bother putting in any more effort. It seems like Wyrd wants to be another Games Workshop.

If you mean, "they want to sell stuff" then yes they are like Games Workshop. Odd that.

Still, you are not under any obligation to buy any of this stuff. Nothing here affects your Malifaux table top game experience in any way whatsoever. I'd like to point out that while ToB has a higher than normal entry point for the freebies, other kickstarters like Kingdom Death, Sedition Wars, and Kings of War had similar price points to get anything good or worthwhile.

I'd like to take a moment and remind you that kickstarters are not about giving away as much free stuff as possible. They're about funding a project and that includes making a profit off sales generated through said kickstarter. We've been spoiled by McVey and Mark to the point that there is a sense of entitlement welling up from the customer base. The standard for pledging should be, "Am I getting my money's worth for what is being offered in this kickstarter?" not "Are they giving out as much free stuff as the other kickstarter projects did?"

I think the $60 confusion was b/c stretch goals were announded as "$125and above). I stand corrected...

Re: HB rulebooks, at least the complaint I had with it was that you're also charged for the regular one. I don't want 2 copies of one rulebook- the only time I do is with the various condensed ones. I think it's absurd for them to not give that option.

I do agree, though about the KD stuff not really fitting their "setting."

To the general hostility, umm, thanks? Not all complainers don't back. I've already backed it, but have some seriously mixed feelings about the campaign, and I'm not the only one to have stated that.

 Zweischneid wrote:
Frankly.

Whatever (very legitimate) criticisms are voiced here, Through the Breach is doing stellar on Kickstarter.

Kicktraq is trending them towards just below 2 Million. That will surely fall as the "first day bump" gets a bit smoothed out with more "normal days" of funding, but they are well on their way to beat Numenera (I think?) as the highest-grossing Pen-and-Paper RPG on Kickstarter yet.

I'll shave my nuts and use zap a gap to make a mustache from the trimmings if this thing even SNIFFS $2M. That's just a joke.

 cincydooley wrote:

 Zweischneid wrote:
Frankly.

Whatever (very legitimate) criticisms are voiced here, Through the Breach is doing stellar on Kickstarter.

Kicktraq is trending them towards just below 2 Million. That will surely fall as the "first day bump" gets a bit smoothed out with more "normal days" of funding, but they are well on their way to beat Numenera (I think?) as the highest-grossing Pen-and-Paper RPG on Kickstarter yet.

I'll shave my nuts and use zap a gap to make a mustache from the trimmings if this thing even SNIFFS $2M. That's just a joke.

Now *that's* a stretch goal I can get behind.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
To the general hostility, umm, thanks? Not all complainers don't back. I've already backed it, but have some seriously mixed feelings about the campaign, and I'm not the only one to have stated that.

It wasn't specific to anyone in general, except maybe Buzzsaw who is hilarious in his ridiculousness. It was more a statement about the people who feel they are entitled to every last thing and if it doesn't meet kickstarter freebies of the past, then the company has some evil agenda or some such nonsense. It's only been a few days, every kickstarter takes some time to ramp up.

Also, I suppose such sentiment from people should be expected on Dakka. Its primarily a miniature site, and not so much about RPGs and other things.

 Zweischneid wrote:
Hell, even a Kickstarter that could've been designed flawless from the start should probably add a few "mistakes" for the community to fix, just so you can get the internet-badge of being someone who is "listening to your base". It's worth hard $$$ on Kickstarter.

This is pretty darn true . I gotta admit, I swoon for the ones who listen to feedback. $500 to Dreamforge's and another $500 to Trollforged's KS.

Sold some things to do it (and I'm about to sell another army as well) but they got my money alright, and listening to feedback was how they did it.

Malifaux is capitalizing on their existing base, I think, which is great- but not doing much to lure in any new participants who wouldn't have joined in regardless (imo).

 kaiohx wrote:

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
To the general hostility, umm, thanks? Not all complainers don't back. I've already backed it, but have some seriously mixed feelings about the campaign, and I'm not the only one to have stated that.

It wasn't specific to anyone in general, except maybe Buzzsaw who is hilarious in his ridiculousness. It was more a statement about the people who feel they are entitled to every last thing and if it doesn't meet kickstarter freebies of the past, then the company has some evil agenda or some such nonsense. It's only been a few days, every kickstarter takes some time to ramp up.

Also, I suppose such sentiment from people should be expected on Dakka. Its primarily a miniature site, and not so much about RPGs and other things.

You realize most of the criticism was not focused on the number of freebies, but rather the lack of transparency In the stretch goals coupled with the incredibly limited number of pledge options. Having more pledge options doesn't adversely affect them at all. The way they've organized it is contrary to almost every other successful Kickstarter. And that would be okay if they even attempted to rationalize or at east pretended to listen to their consumer base that was providing criticism. Instead, they chose to turn up their noses and say, "You don't like OUR pledge levels? Fine, we don't want you to be a part of our Kickstarter."

I hardly think that they've displayed a great attitude towards those folks that have provided well reasoned and valid critical feedback.

Interesting:

http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?37309-Through-the-Breach-Kickstarter-Live!&p=478425&viewfull=1#post478425

 Breotan wrote:

The standard for pledging should be, "Am I getting my money's worth for what is being offered in this kickstarter?" not "Are they giving out as much free stuff as the other kickstarter projects did?"

Your so-called "Freebies" are part of money's worth of the equation. I looked hard and long the stretch goals list and decided it wasn't worth my time and money.
I Cancelled my pledge ($82), because that's just too much money for an unknown RPG-system.

 Breotan wrote:
The standard for pledging should be, "Am I getting my money's worth for what is being offered in this kickstarter?" not "Are they giving out as much free stuff as the other kickstarter projects did?"

The standard "pledge" should be "you get you're money's worth in equity in the company and thus a share of all future revenues". That is the "standard" return for carrying an investor's risk.

Anything less than that (as in.. .something as humble as mere product from a company) better be damn good for anyone to step outside the safety of a regular sales contract (like the one you get ordering from an online store or shopping in your FLGS) to risk your money on a future business venture.

It certainly should be a lot better than the equivalent you'd get for the same money in a store, even discounted for the interest you could earn on that money until the product is released, to compensate you for shouldering the entrepreneurial risk for said company with your cash.

 Breotan wrote:

 Lansirill wrote:
So looks like you'll still need to fork out a bare minimum of $125 if you want a single KS exclusive. Honestly? I just got into Malifaux and this KS is making me wonder if I shouldn't bother putting in any more effort. It seems like Wyrd wants to be another Games Workshop.

If you mean, "they want to sell stuff" then yes they are like Games Workshop. Odd that.

Still, you are not under any obligation to buy any of this stuff. Nothing here affects your Malifaux table top game experience in any way whatsoever. I'd like to point out that while ToB has a higher than normal entry point for the freebies, other kickstarters like Kingdom Death, Sedition Wars, and Kings of War had similar price points to get anything good or worthwhile.

I'd like to take a moment and remind you that kickstarters are not about giving away as much free stuff as possible. They're about funding a project and that includes making a profit off sales generated through said kickstarter. We've been spoiled by McVey and Mark to the point that there is a sense of entitlement welling up from the customer base. The standard for pledging should be, "Am I getting my money's worth for what is being offered in this kickstarter?" not "Are they giving out as much free stuff as the other kickstarter projects did?"

?

There is no "Standard" when it comes to Kickstarter Projects.

They are easily throwing this phrase "KS is not a store" routine when at the same time trying to push for maximum cash flow from joe averages wallet without working for it.

If you want to fund a project, its entirly on YOU to put your money where your mouth is. If a company wants to do better, they can actually put some effort into it, and make it worth the time.

What you don't do is go out and run your mouth- "Hey, if you don't like it, you can get it from your FLGS."

Saying something like that is disengenuous to the point of arrogance. They already have plans to fund it, irregardless of the KS results, if not you wouldn't fly off the cuff when someone throws out some very constructive criticism.

It isn't about being spoiled, either. Your sitting there like people are out here like Olvier, asking for more, when all people are really asking for is a little attention to detail.

Spoiled is Weird, trying to remake KS in how THEY think it is supposed to go, not how real serious projects are being seriously funded.

Spoiled to the point of arrogance.

Well it's the first kickstarter I've pledged for, I've seen a fair few that I regretted not getting on board with like the reaper and bombshell starters and I didn't want to risk doing it again.

I'll agree it doesn't seem like the greatest kickstarter I've seen just yet, but the other half and me are planning on getting into malifaux as soon as she's finished her 40k army and I love having background for my armies.

Worst case scenario, nothing changes, the further stretch goals turn out to be nothing impressive I can just cancel the pledge, but for now I've gone in for the $60 in time for the extra mini.

 Grot 6 wrote:

 Breotan wrote:

 Lansirill wrote:
So looks like you'll still need to fork out a bare minimum of $125 if you want a single KS exclusive. Honestly? I just got into Malifaux and this KS is making me wonder if I shouldn't bother putting in any more effort. It seems like Wyrd wants to be another Games Workshop.

If you mean, "they want to sell stuff" then yes they are like Games Workshop. Odd that.

Still, you are not under any obligation to buy any of this stuff. Nothing here affects your Malifaux table top game experience in any way whatsoever. I'd like to point out that while ToB has a higher than normal entry point for the freebies, other kickstarters like Kingdom Death, Sedition Wars, and Kings of War had similar price points to get anything good or worthwhile.

I'd like to take a moment and remind you that kickstarters are not about giving away as much free stuff as possible. They're about funding a project and that includes making a profit off sales generated through said kickstarter. We've been spoiled by McVey and Mark to the point that there is a sense of entitlement welling up from the customer base. The standard for pledging should be, "Am I getting my money's worth for what is being offered in this kickstarter?" not "Are they giving out as much free stuff as the other kickstarter projects did?"

?

There is no "Standard" when it comes to Kickstarter Projects.

They are easily throwing this phrase "KS is not a store" routine when at the same time trying to push for maximum cash flow from joe averages wallet without working for it.

If you want to fund a project, its entirly on YOU to put your money where your mouth is. If a company wants to do better, they can actually put some effort into it, and make it worth the time.

What you don't do is go out and run your mouth- "Hey, if you don't like it, you can get it from your FLGS."

Saying something like that is disengenuous to the point of arrogance. They already have plans to fund it, irregardless of the KS results, if not you wouldn't fly off the cuff when someone throws out some very constructive criticism.

It isn't about being spoiled, either. Your sitting there like people are out here like Olvier, asking for more, when all people are really asking for is a little attention to detail.

Spoiled is Weird, trying to remake KS in how THEY think it is supposed to go, not how real serious projects are being seriously funded.

Spoiled to the point of arrogance.

Really well said. I'll add that that arrogance shows through a bit more when you consider their "secret" stretch goals at the outset, and the general tone of how their KS is worded. Oh yeah, and the fact that they've supplied little to know solid information about the project.

Here's a non minis related example of how a well designed, well planned KS page should look. Notice th transparency. Notice all the other difference. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/renaedeliz/peter-pan-the-graphic-novel-vol-1?ref=home_spotlight

Now compare that to the Wyrd one. Really puts their arrogance and laziness on display.

kaiohx wrote: If you just want to continually complain like Buzzsaw, well...this is dakka and our members are well known for their legendary complaining. Don't forget to repost your irritating rants on Warseer, Bols, and all the other gaming sites too. If say you should rant on the backer comments, but I don't think you can see them. Your complaints are the best.

kaiohx wrote:It wasn't specific to anyone in general, except maybe Buzzsaw who is hilarious in his ridiculousness...

Uh oh, I think I'm about to be asked to the Sadie Hawkins dance!

 Breotan wrote:
I'd like to take a moment and remind you that kickstarters are not about giving away as much free stuff as possible. They're about funding a project and that includes making a profit off sales generated through said kickstarter. We've been spoiled by McVey and Mark to the point that there is a sense of entitlement welling up from the customer base. The standard for pledging should be, "Am I getting my money's worth for what is being offered in this kickstarter?" not "Are they giving out as much free stuff as the other kickstarter projects did?"

To put aside japery for a moment, this is a good point that I think ought to be addressed, in that it's both sincere and ultimately at the root of what is going amiss here.

Kickstarter is intended to be what Mark did with it, and very much what Reaper did with it: they used it as a substitute for venture capitol. An infusion of cash that allows a new venture to be established, and a product brought to fruition. Stretch goals should contribute to making the ultimate product better, getting something new added to the product line. What a venture capitol model should not be doing is exactly what Wyrd claims not to be doing: conducting a pre-sale or to use their terms, using Kickstarter as a store. When you build substantial profit into the stretches, guess what? It's now a store.

Again, just think back to what Mark or Reaper did: each stretch goal met meant another model sculpted, another mold tooled. That is, another product financed that would be added to their business that would eventually be sold in the stream of commerce.

It's the stretch goals that open another product to purchase that are actually the most clearly in the spirit of kickstarter and venture funding. Those are products that have had their development costs paid by the stretch, but only just that.

By contrast, look at the stretch goals here: other then transitioning the cards to plastic, none of the others (with the possibility of a very tendentious argument regarding a pad of papers) represents a newly funded product. They are all just stuff they happen to have lying around. Seriously now, at $250,000 (or 800%+ their original funding goal) they add a model they had left over from Gencon, and a digital copy... possibly the item with the least possible development costs and the only type of item with an actual cost as close as physically possible to zero for manufacture and distribution.

At the end of the day, there are going to be people fine with that. Fans, not kool-aid drinkers, not toadies, just fans. The fact is, it's quite clear that Wyrd is correct in thinking that they have no small number of fans that aren't going to look at this kickstarter and compare it to others. Because, to them, there is no comparison. They are fans, not consumers and certainly not investors.

Yes, Buzzsaw, their stretch goals are not the most inspiring in the world. In fact, I am rather underwhelmed at this effort they've engaged in. Then again, they're kickstarting a RPG. Not exactly a lot of product in those aside from a few large books.

Still, I look at the price asked and what I'll be getting and decide if it is worth the money. In my case, I said okay and dropped some money on it. I'll revisit my pledge as the kickstarter winds down to see if this is still the case.