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Those guardsmen look incredible. Mind if I ask for the secret behind those plasma guns?

blood angel wrote:
It was a very fun game. I was looking forward to seeing the pictures you took.

You are sort of underthinking the table choice.

I needed that line of sight blocking terrain there to protect my terminators from your shots (from all the cannons and storm bolters) and this included a possible scatter into 'i've been expecting you' range and giving up first blood early if you chose to shoot the pod. In order for me to win the assault I can't afford to 'give away' terminators to small arms fire.

You made 11 2+ saves with the staff and the majority of those were instant death. So above average but not drastically so. All said and done your Warding Stave sucked up 13-14 or so ap 2 wounds before going down.

You made a lot of 5++ saves, in other areas, which made me have to divert additional fire to units that 'should have been dead' the round before. Had the vendettas killed the solodin or in the round before if they had both killed more than a single paladin with shots... (6 twin lined las cannons - 1 dead paladin :( ) But whatever - that's why we play this game.

I kept trying to get angle on sniping out the warding stave paladin but I didn't have enough movement to do so! I believe this may have been intentional on your part,

My stuff that actually hurts your units doesn't care about the LoS blocking terrain in the middle of the board because I can see over it, Ha!

Thanks for taking the pics and the enjoyable game.

Congrats again to you and your team for the win!

To bogalubov:

Math says that wolf guard with terminator armor, storm shields, power axes, preferred enemy, counter charge, high king and blah blah blah do very well against Paladins. With more average dice in that combat it would have gone MUCH differently.

I had planned to have a lot fewer paladins there to fight (ie killing them with las cannons) but it is what it is. We have to play the turns as they unfold when the dice go against us. The key to winning games after a bad round or two is continuing to claw and scrape for every point. That is something we talk a lot about on my podcast (http://www.forgethenarrative.com/)

If I had killed the paladins there would have been nothing stopping me from rushing to the backfield with a powerful scoring unit of my own

With that said - this was not a dice made game. jy2 played awesome with what I saw as only one mistep (with the necron lord). The clutch roles were made with a little luck involved. We play a game where the improbable happens on a consistent basis, heh. I have learned to accept this in my old age..

Hey Paul! Good to hear from you. And thanks for the game. It was a pleasure to play against you.

Yeah, I can see how the terrain benefitted both mine and your army. We both had something to gain from it. I was quite happy with it because my strategy never was to rush your army with my paladinstar. Rather, it was to hold the middle and kill everything that threatened it or my objectives. I controlled my objectives in my deployment zone. You controlled your objectives in your deployment zone. I then controlled the central objectives and it was up to your army to contest/get me off of them. Thus, I was going into the matchup with an advantage already. My strategy basically ties into my philosophy of Positional Dominance. Basically, the goal to was win via board control. Even though my army wasn't very fast, one thing paladins do very well is to control the board. In any case, the central LOS-blocking terrain aided me in my strategy. I knew that once the manticores ran out of missiles, I would be ok (and as long as I could take down the vendettas).

Yeah, the warding stave was pivotal in our 1st round of combat. I got a little lucky passing all those saves initially. Then after I killed off all those wolf guards, it didn't matter as much whether he lived or not on the 2nd turn of combat against Logan.

Perhaps we will face each other again in the future. I plan to go to more GT's next year, including either Adepticon or Nova.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Clauss wrote:
I wonder who you face next round . Thanks for all the reps thus far, nice to see another teams point of view. Maybe we will throw up a quick summary of our matchups/games.

That'll be cool. After my next and final report, I'm sure a lot of people would be interested in how your team did.

bogalubov wrote:
I wonder if sending the wolf star against your back field might have been the smarter play. Putting them up against draigo wing was suicide. It slowed you down for a turn. He could have achieved that with an unblobbed infantry squad. Knocking your dreads and other backfield campers might have been more useful. At least give you pause to double back.

My paladinstar was kind of spread out. If he landed in my backfield near any of my objectives, then there's a good chance that he will be in assault range in 1 or maybe 2 turns at most. Also, landing there runs the risk of dropping into Coteaz's I've Been Expecting You range.

In any case, the middle objectives weren't too far from my backfield objectives. With my strategy, it wouldn't have mattered. I wasn't planning on assaulting his IG troops, just defending on my backfield. I wouldn't really have to "double-back" since I would be in that area anyways.

TehCheator wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
I also deploy a unit of warriors and leave my AB, 2 dreads, Overlord and soladin in reserves....Oops! That's 1 unit too many in reserves. I didn't realize this mistake until I was writing this report.

Your reserves were fine. The Overlord was riding in the Night Scythe, so he doesn't count, so you had 4 units on the board (Paladins, Draigo, Coteaz, and Warriors) with 4 units in reserve (AB, 2 Dreads, and Soladin).

And actually even if the Overlord did matter, you're allowed half rounding up, so that would be half of 9 (4.5 -> 5) in reserve, so you were good either way.

I think the rules are a little murky there. The FAQ says that a unit in a flyer doesn't count. However, the BRB explicitly says that IC's always count towards the reserve quota, even if they are with a unit that doesn't count.

But from your 2nd assertion - that you can start off with more units in reserves than on the table in the case of an odd number of units - I would feel much better if that's the case.

 Reecius wrote:
Well done on beating, Paul! Haha, I am 0-2-1 agains thim so far, the guy manages to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat against me every time! I'll get him next go though, for sure!

Well played, buddy.

Thanks! Sounds a lot like me back in 5th against you and Frankie. Lol. But not happening so far in 6th. There were quite a number of games in which I almost snatched victory from the jaws of defeat....but then the game would continue on to Turn 6 and I lose it. Lol. Oh well, I can't be lucky all the time.

That can happen if you trust to win the game with a mad dash on turn 5 instead of securing the victory then. That aspect of 6th edition objectives I do not like, it happens all the time when someone with a weaker position but a last turn snatches the victory.

I disagree, it adds strategic planning to the game, if you do not see that happening something is wrong on your tactics

blood angel wrote:
...this included a possible scatter into 'i've been expecting you' range and giving up first blood early if you chose to shoot the pod.

Just thought I'd let you know in case you play against Coteaz again:
He gets to shoot both the pod AND the unit, as there is no limit to the number of times per turn he can use the ability, and the only criteria is that the unit arrived from reserves, which both units did.

Either way, it's usually a good idea to not deep strike near Coteaz

Good game guys, and Paul I LOVE your guardsmen, especially the vendettas!

You're right!

And Thanks. Those vendettas are bad ass. This army was painted by GMM Studios http://www.gmmstudios.com/ I just had the pleasure of playing it for that event. More pictures can be found in the painting showcase forum here.

I'll be back to my Catachans the next time I roll out the IG.

On topic, I will say that Arjak was worth his points consistently through the whole tournament. This is the first time that I invested in him and I am happy I did.

 jy2 wrote:
I think the rules are a little murky there. The FAQ says that a unit in a flyer doesn't count. However, the BRB explicitly says that IC's always count towards the reserve quota, even if they are with a unit that doesn't count.

But from your 2nd assertion - that you can start off with more units in reserves than on the table in the case of an odd number of units - I would feel much better if that's the case.

Ahh, I must have missed that part of the reserve rules. As for the 2nd part, I don't have my BRB on me, but I believe there's a general rule early on in the book that says if you take "Half" of something you always round up. Assuming that's true and there isn't anything in the reserve rules that explicitly says to round down, then the odd number should be good.

Sorry, maybe this topic has been addressed over the course of the thread, but, I'm trying to figure out what is so "fluffy bunny" about GreyCron and Riptide and Psyfleman spam lists? Am I assuming correctly that the name is a bit of a joke?

Am I totally dense for asking this question?

jy2, the FAQ about ICs only refers to units they have joined, not transports. An IC is never "with" or "attached to" its transport - if it were, it could confer rules to that transport, which has consistently been ruled against in the FAQs. So what you did was perfectly legal; both the Overlord and Warriors count as 1 unit each in reserves, but as both were in a flyer, both are discounted.

 Valek wrote:
I disagree, it adds strategic planning to the game, if you do not see that happening something is wrong on your tactics

Only if all armies were equally maneuverable. It is brilliant strategy when you turboboost your jetbikes to contest an objective and hope the game ends there, as you just managed to grab the objectives victory? I don't think so..

Sorry, maybe this topic has been addressed over the course of the thread, but, I'm trying to figure out what is so "fluffy bunny" about GreyCron and Riptide and Psyfleman spam lists? Am I assuming correctly that the name is a bit of a joke?

Am I totally dense for asking this question?

Yes...you are

In all seriousness, the Fluffy Bunnies are a team of five successful 40k vet players that came in first in a hyper competitive event. The name is ironic. The real "fluffy bunnies" were down toward the bottom. That's the way it goes.

Although its not an IC in a flyer, in an all drop pod army characters are deploying in the drop pods. I haven't seen them be counted as units before. Of course people could have been playing this incorrectly.

 Xenocidal Maniac wrote:
Sorry, maybe this topic has been addressed over the course of the thread, but, I'm trying to figure out what is so "fluffy bunny" about GreyCron and Riptide and Psyfleman spam lists? Am I assuming correctly that the name is a bit of a joke?

Am I totally dense for asking this question?

Well, we DID have Tyranids in our team.

I believe the team naming conversation went something like this:
Bill: "Wouldn't it be extra-humiliating if we win a game, and our opponents have to say they lost to the Fluffy Bunnies?"
Mike & Brandon: "Yeah!"

Okay, sorry for being dense here, but you've been using the same tactic in each game, Overlord and Warriors in a Scythe. Move on scythe, drop Overlord, move scythe next turn and drop off Warriors elsewhere.

Now, I always thought that as soon as a character is in a transport with another unit, he is part of that unit. Now the rules are quite clear on this, (if not enlightenment would be appreciated) a unit must fully embark or disembark a transport, no half measures. Since the lord is part of the unit at the start of the movement phase, remember he only leaves the unit when he is 2" away, by disembarking wouldn't he force the rest of the unit to disembark with him also?

Cheers

Andrew

Being dense, check the rules for Independent characters.

 AndrewC wrote:
Okay, sorry for being dense here, but you've been using the same tactic in each game, Overlord and Warriors in a Scythe. Move on scythe, drop Overlord, move scythe next turn and drop off Warriors elsewhere.

Now, I always thought that as soon as a character is in a transport with another unit, he is part of that unit. Now the rules are quite clear on this, (if not enlightenment would be appreciated) a unit must fully embark or disembark a transport, no half measures. Since the lord is part of the unit at the start of the movement phase, remember he only leaves the unit when he is 2" away, by disembarking wouldn't he force the rest of the unit to disembark with him also?

Cheers

Andrew

No, he wouldn't. An IC can always leave a unit to form his own unit, which is basically a unit of 1. The "half measures" you are thinking about is if I disembark 2 warriors and leave 3 warriors in their transport. That is illegal since part of the unit is in a transport and part of the unit is out.

Naw wrote:
That can happen if you trust to win the game with a mad dash on turn 5 instead of securing the victory then. That aspect of 6th edition objectives I do not like, it happens all the time when someone with a weaker position but a last turn snatches the victory.

The "mad-dash-strategy" gives you some added flexibility towards winning the game. Of course your strategy won't be based on that, but you have the ability to still win games that way even if things are going poorly for you. Thus, eldar and necrons (or armies that ally in eldar and necrons) have a huge advantage over some of the other armies. When it comes to ways-to-win-the-game, they've got greater flexibility than those who don't have highly mobile troops.

 CaptainJay wrote:
Being dense, check the rules for Independent characters.

What a wonderfully erudite and helpful reply! Thank you for the explanation .

I will repost and rephrase. A character can leave a unit by simply moving away from the rest of the unit and maintaing a 2" gap. However in order to move away from the unit, by getting out of the vehicle, the character has to declare a disembark move. Since he is still part of the unit when he declares this, the unit has to disembark too. Remember no half measures.

Perhaps now I'll get a reasonable response.

Cheers

Andrew

 AndrewC wrote:

 CaptainJay wrote:
Being dense, check the rules for Independent characters.

What a wonderfully erudite and helpful reply! Thank you for the explanation .

I will repost and rephrase. A character can leave a unit by simply moving away from the rest of the unit and maintaing a 2" gap. However in order to move away from the unit, by getting out of the vehicle, the character has to declare a disembark move. Since he is still part of the unit when he declares this, the unit has to disembark too. Remember no half measures.

Perhaps now I'll get a reasonable response.

Cheers

Andrew

See p. 79, "Independent Characters and Transports." It's explicitly allowed to play it as Jim does.

 jy2 wrote:
No, he wouldn't. An IC can always leave a unit to form his own unit, which is basically a unit of 1. The "half measures" you are thinking about is if I disembark 2 warriors and leave 3 warriors in their transport. That is illegal since part of the unit is in a transport and part of the unit is out.

You see this is where my confusion comes into it. In most other situations an IC can do so, and the 'host' unit has no downsides to face. But in order to leave the vehicle he has to declare that he is disembarking, before he has left the unit.

Cheers

Andrew


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Thank you Jathkin, I completely missed that. How I missed it I don't know. Guess I was too focused on P78 and P39.

Cheers

Andrew

Tactical_Genius wrote:

blood angel wrote:
...this included a possible scatter into 'i've been expecting you' range and giving up first blood early if you chose to shoot the pod.

Just thought I'd let you know in case you play against Coteaz again:
He gets to shoot both the pod AND the unit, as there is no limit to the number of times per turn he can use the ability, and the only criteria is that the unit arrived from reserves, which both units did.

Either way, it's usually a good idea to not deep strike near Coteaz

Good game guys, and Paul I LOVE your guardsmen, especially the vendettas!

Hmmm....I will probably have to ask this on YMDC. To me, that seems a little too strong. It's also not consistent with past GW rulings (i.e. Daemonhunter mystics back in the previous edition).

But hey....I'd be happy if that was true.

blood angel wrote:
You're right!

And Thanks. Those vendettas are bad ass. This army was painted by GMM Studios http://www.gmmstudios.com/ I just had the pleasure of playing it for that event. More pictures can be found in the painting showcase forum here.

I'll be back to my Catachans the next time I roll out the IG.

On topic, I will say that Arjak was worth his points consistently through the whole tournament. This is the first time that I invested in him and I am happy I did.

Arjac is a Lysander Mini-me.

BTW, loved your army Paul. It's so purdy.

 Xenocidal Maniac wrote:
Sorry, maybe this topic has been addressed over the course of the thread, but, I'm trying to figure out what is so "fluffy bunny" about GreyCron and Riptide and Psyfleman spam lists? Am I assuming correctly that the name is a bit of a joke?

Am I totally dense for asking this question?

It was kind of an inside joke between us. Some of our team members thought that it would be funny when our opponent were to tell others that they got beaten by some Fluffy Bunnies team.

 Xca|iber wrote:
jy2, the FAQ about ICs only refers to units they have joined, not transports. An IC is never "with" or "attached to" its transport - if it were, it could confer rules to that transport, which has consistently been ruled against in the FAQs. So what you did was perfectly legal; both the Overlord and Warriors count as 1 unit each in reserves, but as both were in a flyer, both are discounted.

Another question for YMDC. I will ask later when I have time.

If it is true, it gives me much greater flexibility in how I play my army. For example, I could then reserve everything but my paladinstar to deny my opponent any soft targets at all. That actually makes my list much, much better.

Naw wrote:

 Valek wrote:
I disagree, it adds strategic planning to the game, if you do not see that happening s
omething is wrong on your tactics

Only if all armies were equally maneuverable. It is brilliant strategy when you turboboost your jetbikes to contest an objective and hope the game ends there, as you just managed to grab the objectives victory? I don't think so..

I entirely agree with you. It is not a sound strategy. However, you do have that flexibility with necrons and eldar in your army. Other slower armies don't even have that option, particularly when they are losing badly. Necrons/eldar can be losing badly and still have a chance to win.

 jy2 wrote:
Hmmm....I will probably have to ask this on YMDC. To me, that seems a little too strong. It's also not consistent with past GW rulings (i.e. Daemonhunter mystics back in the previous edition).

But hey....I'd be happy if that was true.

Already been FAQ'd, it's definitely legal.

GK FAQ Pg. 5 wrote:Q: Does a squad disembarking from a Drop Pod, or Mycetic Spore, count as arriving from reserve for Inquisitor Coteaz’s I’ve Been Expecting You special rule? (p45)
A: Yes, this means that Inquisitor Coteaz and his unit will be able to fire once at each unit.

Grabbing the objectives right at the end with a super speed army is rather unbalanced in my mind. As you said it makes Necrons and Eldar have a chance to snatch victory from defeat... for everyone else well to bad! I don't like that kinda of advantage on armies that are already kinda THE armies to beat but I guess 40k ain't really a balance game to begin with. Still fun as hell though.

Anyway, Great games Jy2 hope you guys take the win!

Only Necrons can disembark from a transport that has moved over 6". A squad embarked in a Stormraven, Valkyrie or a Vendetta can 'parachute' out but it's not nearly as reliable.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Only Necrons can disembark from a transport that has moved over 6". A squad embarked in a Stormraven, Valkyrie or a Vendetta can 'parachute' out but it's not nearly as reliable.

Grav chute insertion is a one way ticket to suicide town.

Overall I'm always amused when people talk about TAC lists and then mention that they play Necrons, Eldar, Tau, Grey Knights or Daemons. Some codexes have the potential for TAC a lot more than others.

TehCheator wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
Hmmm....I will probably have to ask this on YMDC. To me, that seems a little too strong. It's also not consistent with past GW rulings (i.e. Daemonhunter mystics back in the previous edition).

But hey....I'd be happy if that was true.

Already been FAQ'd, it's definitely legal.

GK FAQ Pg. 5 wrote:Q: Does a squad disembarking from a Drop Pod, or Mycetic Spore, count as arriving from reserve for Inquisitor Coteaz’s I’ve Been Expecting You special rule? (p45)
A: Yes, this means that Inquisitor Coteaz and his unit will be able to fire once at each unit.

Great to know! Thanks!

 Ecstasy in Service wrote:
Grabbing the objectives right at the end with a super speed army is rather unbalanced in my mind. As you said it makes Necrons and Eldar have a chance to snatch victory from defeat... for everyone else well to bad! I don't like that kinda of advantage on armies that are already kinda THE armies to beat but I guess 40k ain't really a balance game to begin with. Still fun as hell though.

Anyway, Great games Jy2 hope you guys take the win!

Yeah, it's kind of unfair that they can do this and very few other armies can (at least not as good as those 2 armies). That's why the best armie IMO will probably ally in necrons or eldar just for their highly mobile scoring units. Tau + eldar may just be the best army out there right now.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Only Necrons can disembark from a transport that has moved over 6". A squad embarked in a Stormraven, Valkyrie or a Vendetta can 'parachute' out but it's not nearly as reliable.

Yeah, they have the option. They just don't have the pin-point precision of crons. The night scythe would be more justified if it was 120-pts with its current capabilities or maybe if they limit the move-&-disembark only to moving at 18" and disembarking/embarking.

bogalubov wrote:

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Only Necrons can disembark from a transport that has moved over 6". A squad embarked in a Stormraven, Valkyrie or a Vendetta can 'parachute' out but it's not nearly as reliable.

Grav chute insertion is a one way ticket to suicide town.

Overall I'm always amused when people talk about TAC lists and then mention that they play Necrons, Eldar, Tau, Grey Knights or Daemons. Some codexes have the potential for TAC a lot more than others.

I look at parachuting from those transports more as a desperation move. You only do it if you absolutely have to....and sometimes, you can get incredibly lucky.

Yeah, some TAC lists are definitely better than others. That's why so many of the top players migrate to the better armies when they are playing competitively (just look at the top armies for Nova).

 AndrewC wrote:

 CaptainJay wrote:
Being dense, check the rules for Independent characters.

What a wonderfully erudite and helpful reply! Thank you for the explanation .

I will repost and rephrase. A character can leave a unit by simply moving away from the rest of the unit and maintaing a 2" gap. However in order to move away from the unit, by getting out of the vehicle, the character has to declare a disembark move. Since he is still part of the unit when he declares this, the unit has to disembark too. Remember no half measures.

Perhaps now I'll get a reasonable response.

Cheers

Andrew

Heh, touche! So the issue has now been cleared up, but a) you asked and b) it is detailed in the rulebook (which I didn't have to hand, so no page reference, sorry). Apologies if my response was a bit blunt.

 CaptainJay wrote:

Heh, touche! So the issue has now been cleared up, but a) you asked and b) it is detailed in the rulebook (which I didn't have to hand, so no page reference, sorry). Apologies if my response was a bit blunt.

Not a problem. Unfortunately there are a few posters who are a little to.... clever for their own good, and rather than help someone who genuinely can't find the relevant rules despite looking for them, they would post sarky or unhelpful responses. Having run afoul of them before, I have little time for them.

I'm sure, now, that you meant well, sorry that you got hit with a "falcepalm" post.

Cheers

Andrew

It is okay. : )

Just wanted to say I enjoyed reading the reports, I usually don't like them. Very well done!

I'm qualified for the Feast Invitational, but will probably attend the open with my own Draigo list. I thought I was being dumb by building one in sixth! I'm painting now, but my banner bro is definitely getting a magnet and an apothecary upgrade. Also, going to paint one of my Coteaz models, too.

I probably won't get play testing in prior to competition, so good primer for me too in DW tactics. I'm running a theme army (you won't miss mine if you come, trust me ) so no Necrons for me
Though, I own all those models. Going to have some fun locally with your take on the DW!

Congratulations on the win.

Ohh cant wait to read this!