Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 M0ff3l wrote:

 Stormwall wrote:
Edited: See, I want to post something but, I'm afraid to due to the weird setup this thread has. Is it cool if I just PM it to one of you guys or the mods to see if it is alright to post?

The thread is already getting closed, so at this point, post what ever pleases you.

 M0ff3l wrote:

I know that I will get what I want because I sent them 6 pages of instructions and examples of how to paint my models. When they send me pictures and I feel like they did not follow my orders I can get it changed for free, that is one of their policies... That way instead of doing test models, sending pics to the client, waiting for response etc, they work way more efficient.

Very well. What is the difference between what Ten showed that he did in his videos than you've done here? You've not gotten any wips like you hinted at, which is worrying, the paint scheme (nurgle,) is simple, and then the bit issue that suddenly blew up on here. If I recall correctly, Ten left /tons/ of instructions for BTP and they were not followed at all. I understand this is for a fair review but, what I don't understand is how is it more efficient that your army gets repainted and shipped about several times than getting it right the first time?

 Flippa wrote:
And if they don't then they have weeks or months worth of repaints?

I dont think that they mess up projects with detailed instructions to the point where they have to spend months changing it very often. Yes that is what happened to Tenebres project, but Im sure if that happened on the regular BTP would be out of business by now.

Oh then you just pretty much answered what I wrote then. Edit: I hope you don't get burned on this deal but, I was hoping that you would keep this open.

 Stormwall wrote:

 M0ff3l wrote:

 Stormwall wrote:
Edited: See, I want to post something but, I'm afraid to due to the weird setup this thread has. Is it cool if I just PM it to one of you guys or the mods to see if it is alright to post?

The thread is already getting closed, so at this point, post what ever pleases you.

 M0ff3l wrote:

I know that I will get what I want because I sent them 6 pages of instructions and examples of how to paint my models. When they send me pictures and I feel like they did not follow my orders I can get it changed for free, that is one of their policies... That way instead of doing test models, sending pics to the client, waiting for response etc, they work way more efficient.

Very well. What is the difference between what Ten did in his videos than you've done here? You've not gotten any wips like you hinted at, which is worrying, your army shipped, and then the bit issue that suddenly blew up on here. If I recall correctly, Ten left tons of instructions for BTP and they were not followed at all. And how is it more efficient that your army gets repainted and shipped about several times than getting it right the first time?

I did not ask for any WIP pictures as you can see from every email I posted in the OP. Also who was talking about shipping anything? They send you pictures when they are done painting then you do 1 of 3 things:
1) you feel like its not the way you described in your instructions and give them a few pointers as to why - they change it for free
2) they followed your instructions but you dont like it that much - they change it for a fee
3) you approve they ship it back to you.

Maybe you are confused, they have not put any paint on my models and certainly have not shipped them to me... They will send me pictures once they are done painting and before shipping them to me. What I believe happened with Tenebre is that they completely messed up the instructions and the instructions for the repairs so he just asked it to be shipped to him. But I certainly do not believe that this is how every project with them goes.

EDIT: Also what the difference is between this and tenebres thread, Tenebre received a faulty product and made a review of the product and how he was dissapointed with it and the company. This is a thread made to showcase how an interaction with BTP works, showing emails, instructions, pricing etc. And then compare the instructions to the product I received and the price I paid for said product. From the start Tenebres thread was negative, mine was supposed to be neutral.

 M0ff3l wrote:

 Flippa wrote:
And if they don't then they have weeks or months worth of repaints?

I dont think that they mess up projects with detailed instructions to the point where they have to spend months changing it very often. Yes that is what happened to Tenebres project, but Im sure if that happened on the regular BTP would be out of business by now.

It appears that BTP has indeed gone through several iterations of company. I wouldn't like to speculate as to why Shawn didn't file renewal documents on other BTP's. I hope that your army comes back and that it's everything you hoped it would be, and that you'll share with us, even if it's an article post with no replies.

I reread the start of the thread, dangers of playing telephone, I must have misread someone elses post.

According to the process you just listed, it seems like a QC error shouldn't happen. Still, we will see how it goes.

 Flippa wrote:

 M0ff3l wrote:

 Flippa wrote:
And if they don't then they have weeks or months worth of repaints?

I dont think that they mess up projects with detailed instructions to the point where they have to spend months changing it very often. Yes that is what happened to Tenebres project, but Im sure if that happened on the regular BTP would be out of business by now.

It appears that BTP has indeed gone through several iterations of company. I wouldn't like to speculate as to why Shawn didn't file renewal documents on other BTP's. I hope that your army comes back and that it's everything you hoped it would be, and that you'll share with us, even if it's an article post with no replies.

Sums it up nicely. If you don't pursue the thread, I hope you consider an article.

 M0ff3l wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Granted, but people's reaction to how much you have been charged for an element of your project is absolutely on topic. If that's been largely negative, it may suggest something to you.

You're absolutely correct that it's your money and your models, but if you're going to share this information in a public forum, you have no right to dictate how people react to it.

Frankly, I'm only surprised at the fact that it seems to have been a substantial delay between you sharing the info about the Havoc Launchers and the apparent backlash, I remember commenting something akin to "you could buy the whole Rhino for that" what feels like weeks ago, but it didn't appear to phase anyone else back then.

Thats just because Tenebres thread is slowing down, so people are now actively looking for reasons they can flame BTP for... And youre right, there was going to be negative feedback. But people on this forum could be bit more polite and reasonable. If the responses had been something along the lines of:

Hey M0ff3l, I believe paying 60$ for 2 havoc launchers is a rip off, you should send them an email asking for clearafecation of this and maybe ask them if you can get the rest of the kit they took the bits from.

instead of:

WOW I CANT BELIEVE BTP CHARGES THAT MUCH AND THEN WONT EVEN GIVE THE BITS BACK TO THE CLIENT WHO DIDNT EVEN ASK FOR THAT YET JEEZ!

Because honestly, I only saw 1 post resembling my first example and the rest were all along the lines of that second example. And that is the exact reason why I am happy this thread is getting closed.

But none of it seems to be aimed at You, but is more an exclamation to the sky. I can understand when it is you who's paying how it must be difficult for you to separate the two, but you mustn't take criticism of BTP in general too personally. Of course, if someone flat out calls you a moron for using them, that's a separate issue, but merely expressing an opinion on the facts as you've presented them is unlikely to be intended as a personal attack, but might need a bit of effort in your part not to take it as such.

 Azreal13 wrote:

 M0ff3l wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Granted, but people's reaction to how much you have been charged for an element of your project is absolutely on topic. If that's been largely negative, it may suggest something to you.

You're absolutely correct that it's your money and your models, but if you're going to share this information in a public forum, you have no right to dictate how people react to it.

Frankly, I'm only surprised at the fact that it seems to have been a substantial delay between you sharing the info about the Havoc Launchers and the apparent backlash, I remember commenting something akin to "you could buy the whole Rhino for that" what feels like weeks ago, but it didn't appear to phase anyone else back then.

Thats just because Tenebres thread is slowing down, so people are now actively looking for reasons they can flame BTP for... And youre right, there was going to be negative feedback. But people on this forum could be bit more polite and reasonable. If the responses had been something along the lines of:

Hey M0ff3l, I believe paying 60$ for 2 havoc launchers is a rip off, you should send them an email asking for clearafecation of this and maybe ask them if you can get the rest of the kit they took the bits from.

instead of:

WOW I CANT BELIEVE BTP CHARGES THAT MUCH AND THEN WONT EVEN GIVE THE BITS BACK TO THE CLIENT WHO DIDNT EVEN ASK FOR THAT YET JEEZ!

Because honestly, I only saw 1 post resembling my first example and the rest were all along the lines of that second example. And that is the exact reason why I am happy this thread is getting closed.

But none of it seems to be aimed at You, but is more an exclamation to the sky. I can understand when it is you who's paying how it must be difficult for you to separate the two, but you mustn't take criticism of BTP in general too personally. Of course, if someone flat out calls you a moron for using them, that's a separate issue, but merely expressing an opinion on the facts as you've presented them is unlikely to be intended as a personal attack, but might need a bit of effort in your part not to take it as such.

I never said I was taking those things personal. The first sentence of my thread reads: Let me start this thread off by making it clear that as soon as this thread derails into another hatred filled bandwagon against BTP/MWG or anything like that I will immediately PM a mod and ask for closing of the thread. I am making this thread to (hopefully) showcase an average interaction with BTP.

Note, it doesnt say if people are being mean to me I will close the thread. No It says if people start using this thread as their tool to communicate their hatred towards BTP I will close it, as it is not the threads inteded use.

With that post you quoted, I merely meant that if people would just give cincere input like "hey ask BTP what they are doing with those 60$ and if you can get some bits back maybe" instead of immediately assuming that they would never return bits to customers or anything.

I will admit, this whole thing would have been easier if I actually had an entire project from start to finish to review. But it was a loss/loss situation for me, in Tenebres thread I was being called out for "lying" etc because I wasnt posting proof of my project with BTP. When I said I would post the entire project with a review of the entire process people said I would just paint them myself or whatever. So I made the thread. Now people blame me for posting it without results and all I can do is refer them back to the people hating on me in Tenebres thread. This alone has really shown me that I cant please people with this thread and it isnt being appreciated. So just close it then, because I wont be the gasoline you people pour onto your BTP hate fire.

Excuse me?

Let's be clear, I've barely participated in this thread until just recently, and I don't recall posting in Tenebre's thread at all, I've certainly not kept up to date with it, so kindly don't be making any "you people" statements in my direction, you've no real idea what my opinions are, because I haven't really articulated any.

Regardless of your stated intentions, I have to say, as an impartial (or the closest you'll get to it) observer that there is a definite hint of you taking your ball home because the other boys aren't playing the way you want. That's not intended as an attack, merely an honest observation.

You say "hatred fuelled bandwagon" I hear "as soon as people start voicing opinions too far removed from my own."

 M0ff3l wrote:


I know that I will get what I want because I sent them 6 pages of instructions and examples of how to paint my models. When they send me pictures and I feel like they did not follow my orders I can get it changed for free, that is one of their policies... That way instead of doing test models, sending pics to the client, waiting for response etc, they work way more efficient.

Really not sure what's kicked off in this thread. I will say this on the point above; it is most efficient (I speak from experience) to do as little rework as possible. Typically this means a test photo from the first batch being done to go to the client so product can be compared to specification.

I'm not trying to rag on BTP, but honestly from a professional point of view so e of their working procedures baffle me.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Excuse me?

Let's be clear, I've barely participated in this thread until just recently, and I don't recall posting in Tenebre's thread at all, I've certainly not kept up to date with it, so kindly don't be making any "you people" statements in my direction, you've no real idea what my opinions are, because I haven't really articulated any.

Regardless of your stated intentions, I have to say, as an impartial (or the closest you'll get to it) observer that there is a definite hint of you taking your ball home because the other boys aren't playing the way you want. That's not intended as an attack, merely an honest observation.

You say "hatred fuelled bandwagon" I hear "as soon as people start voicing opinions too far removed from my own."

you can hear it as whatever you want. In the end I am the one to judge the criteria I set myself, I have already given you 2 examples of how people could have posted their opinions in a more civil/neutral fashion instead of immediately blaming BTP for it. Also I am supposed not to take things personal but when I say you people and you feel somehow included even though as you said it doesnt say anything about you, you get mad at me? What?!

EDIT: Also about your comparison to a kid taking his ball home. You forgot to mention that the kid warned the other boys that they should play along his rules or he would go home, thats the first thing he did. The other boys could then decide to play or not, but if they played and didnt follow the rules that kid is outa there.

You said it in a reply to me, it isn't a leap to consider you were considering me as part of the group you were referencing.

But the point again remains, you can't make people express their opinion in a way you find acceptable, unless they're expressing it in a way that contravenes the forum rules, what you're essentially proposing is censorship, and if you want that sort of control I'm afraid you'll have to start your own blog or forum.

EDIT in response to edit.

Just because someone declares in advance they're going to do something, it doesn't make it any more acceptable/right/justified. Saying you'll close the thread essentially if people start disagreeing with you too strongly isn't really an amazing thing to be doing, and trying to get the thread closed because people have done exactly that remains not an amazing thing to be doing.

 Flippa wrote:

 M0ff3l wrote:


I know that I will get what I want because I sent them 6 pages of instructions and examples of how to paint my models. When they send me pictures and I feel like they did not follow my orders I can get it changed for free, that is one of their policies... That way instead of doing test models, sending pics to the client, waiting for response etc, they work way more efficient.

Do you honestly think repainting an army is more time efficient than painting 1 mini and sending you some HD pics?

If they can get enough projects right on the first try then yes I would believe so.

 Azreal13 wrote:
You said it in a reply to me, it isn't a leap to consider you were considering me as part of the group you were referencing.

But the point again remains, you can't make people express their opinion in a way you find acceptable, unless they're expressing it in a way that contravenes the forum rules, what you're essentially proposing is censorship, and if you want that sort of control I'm afraid you'll have to start your own blog or forum.

EDIT in response to edit.

Just because someone declares in advance they're going to do something, it doesn't make it any more acceptable/right/justified. Saying you'll close the thread essentially if people start disagreeing with you too strongly isn't really an amazing thing to be doing, and trying to get the thread closed because people have done exactly that remains not an amazing thing to be doing.

Its not about disagreeing with me, this whole thread is not even an opinion, did you even read my opening post? I just didnt want it to turn into another thread where people disect every bit of info they can get on BTP to justify their reason for disliking the company. If people had that additude comming into this thread why would they post? It is about reviewing the entire process and seeing what the results are like. As I have told you twice now, if people had kept their concerns with the process so far civil as for example: "Hey 60$ for 2 havoc launchers, thats way too expensive! you should mail them and ask what exactly the 60$ entails and if you can get money/bits back if they are leftover". I would have gladly emailed them and documented their response. But thats not how most of the posts go. So the topic is getting closed.

You are free to make your own choices, but it seems a bit odd to request this to be closed. I mean if you start something you should see it to the end as that is just a trait of integrity but it is your thread to do with what you want.

Also just to clarify cause misinformation drives me insane- Ten's thread started off as a neutral review which many pointed out as being extremely forgiving and neutral. It only got negative after people realized the actual quality of the work. It did not start negative though, just wanted to clarify that.

 M0ff3l wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Excuse me?

Let's be clear, I've barely participated in this thread until just recently, and I don't recall posting in Tenebre's thread at all, I've certainly not kept up to date with it, so kindly don't be making any "you people" statements in my direction, you've no real idea what my opinions are, because I haven't really articulated any.

Regardless of your stated intentions, I have to say, as an impartial (or the closest you'll get to it) observer that there is a definite hint of you taking your ball home because the other boys aren't playing the way you want. That's not intended as an attack, merely an honest observation.

You say "hatred fuelled bandwagon" I hear "as soon as people start voicing opinions too far removed from my own."

you can hear it as whatever you want. In the end I am the one to judge the criteria I set myself, I have already given you 2 examples of how people could have posted their opinions in a more civil/neutral fashion instead of immediately blaming BTP for it. Also I am supposed not to take things personal but when I say you people and you feel somehow included even though as you said it doesnt say anything about you, you get mad at me? What?!

EDIT: Also about your comparison to a kid taking his ball home. You forgot to mention that the kid warned the other boys that they should play along his rules or he would go home, thats the first thing he did. The other boys could then decide to play or not, but if they played and didnt follow the rules that kid is outa there.

What you say is true but it just means you are the strict judge, jury and executioner of this thread. I don't really see that as fair as once a thread is started only the mods should be able to close it when they see fit but maybe that is just me. I honestly don't know.

Finally that ball quote doesn't make much sense to me. If the kid lays out rules and shoos everyone away in the future no one is going to want to play with him and he is going to end up all alone. That seems like a sad/depressing analogy.

ClockworkChaos wrote:
You are free to make your own choices, but it seems a bit odd to request this to be closed. I mean if you start something you should see it to the end as that is just a trait of integrity but it is your thread to do with what you want.

Also just to clarify cause misinformation drives me insane- Ten's thread started off as a neutral review which many pointed out as being extremely forgiving and neutral. It only got negative after people realized the actual quality of the work. It did not start negative though, just wanted to clarify that.

 M0ff3l wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Excuse me?

Let's be clear, I've barely participated in this thread until just recently, and I don't recall posting in Tenebre's thread at all, I've certainly not kept up to date with it, so kindly don't be making any "you people" statements in my direction, you've no real idea what my opinions are, because I haven't really articulated any.

Regardless of your stated intentions, I have to say, as an impartial (or the closest you'll get to it) observer that there is a definite hint of you taking your ball home because the other boys aren't playing the way you want. That's not intended as an attack, merely an honest observation.

You say "hatred fuelled bandwagon" I hear "as soon as people start voicing opinions too far removed from my own."

you can hear it as whatever you want. In the end I am the one to judge the criteria I set myself, I have already given you 2 examples of how people could have posted their opinions in a more civil/neutral fashion instead of immediately blaming BTP for it. Also I am supposed not to take things personal but when I say you people and you feel somehow included even though as you said it doesnt say anything about you, you get mad at me? What?!

EDIT: Also about your comparison to a kid taking his ball home. You forgot to mention that the kid warned the other boys that they should play along his rules or he would go home, thats the first thing he did. The other boys could then decide to play or not, but if they played and didnt follow the rules that kid is outa there.

What you say is true but it just means you are the strict judge, jury and executioner of this thread. I don't really see that as fair as once a thread is started only the mods should be able to close it when they see fit but maybe that is just me. I honestly don't know.

Finally that ball quote doesn't make much sense to me. If the kid lays out rules and shoos everyone away in the future no one is going to want to play with him and he is going to end up all alone. That seems like a sad/depressing analogy.

Misinformation? I beg to differ, this is the very first sentence in Tenebres thread: Here is a video review of my chaos dwarf army and my experience with Blue Table Painting. Please watch and heed as a warning as well.

Heed as a warning, that doesnt sound neutral to me.

Also how is it unfair for me to want a civil and fairly neutral discussion about BTP until we can actually see their work and judge then how the project went?

 M0ff3l wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
You said it in a reply to me, it isn't a leap to consider you were considering me as part of the group you were referencing.

But the point again remains, you can't make people express their opinion in a way you find acceptable, unless they're expressing it in a way that contravenes the forum rules, what you're essentially proposing is censorship, and if you want that sort of control I'm afraid you'll have to start your own blog or forum.

EDIT in response to edit.

Just because someone declares in advance they're going to do something, it doesn't make it any more acceptable/right/justified. Saying you'll close the thread essentially if people start disagreeing with you too strongly isn't really an amazing thing to be doing, and trying to get the thread closed because people have done exactly that remains not an amazing thing to be doing.

Its not about disagreeing with me, this whole thread is not even an opinion, did you even read my opening post? I just didnt want it to turn into another thread where people disect every bit of info they can get on BTP to justify their reason for disliking the company. If people had that additude comming into this thread why would they post? It is about reviewing the entire process and seeing what the results are like. As I have told you twice now, if people had kept their concerns with the process so far civil as for example: "Hey 60$ for 2 havoc launchers, thats way too expensive! you should mail them and ask what exactly the 60$ entails and if you can get money/bits back if they are leftover". I would have gladly emailed them and documented their response. But thats not how most of the posts go. So the topic is getting closed.

Right, so people have expressed their skepticism about the cost of the Havocs, but because they haven't done so in a manner you arbitrarily decided was the correct one, you haven't emailed BTP in order to document the response?

Not seeing that one, sorry, if the point is valid (and, yes, in the case of this charge, I personally find people's reactions totally understandable) then why is it important how they express it to you? Or are you just writing off (potentially) valid criticism and dismissing it as "hating" (ugh, I hate that word) as so often happens with GW advocates in the more controversial GW debates?

If your intention was to genuinely try and document a typical BTP experience (something which likely failed as soon as you made the thread, but meh) then your most important job is to mitigate the extremity of the criticism and try and act as a filter for that, not pack up and go home as soon as things got heated. You had an opportunity to contact BTP and get a rationale as to the cost of an elementary alteration to your models, but have instead opted to throw your hands up and walk away.

Threads that stay on topic and do not break the rules of the site tend to NOT get closed.

 Azreal13 wrote:

 M0ff3l wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
You said it in a reply to me, it isn't a leap to consider you were considering me as part of the group you were referencing.

But the point again remains, you can't make people express their opinion in a way you find acceptable, unless they're expressing it in a way that contravenes the forum rules, what you're essentially proposing is censorship, and if you want that sort of control I'm afraid you'll have to start your own blog or forum.

EDIT in response to edit.

Just because someone declares in advance they're going to do something, it doesn't make it any more acceptable/right/justified. Saying you'll close the thread essentially if people start disagreeing with you too strongly isn't really an amazing thing to be doing, and trying to get the thread closed because people have done exactly that remains not an amazing thing to be doing.

Its not about disagreeing with me, this whole thread is not even an opinion, did you even read my opening post? I just didnt want it to turn into another thread where people disect every bit of info they can get on BTP to justify their reason for disliking the company. If people had that additude comming into this thread why would they post? It is about reviewing the entire process and seeing what the results are like. As I have told you twice now, if people had kept their concerns with the process so far civil as for example: "Hey 60$ for 2 havoc launchers, thats way too expensive! you should mail them and ask what exactly the 60$ entails and if you can get money/bits back if they are leftover". I would have gladly emailed them and documented their response. But thats not how most of the posts go. So the topic is getting closed.

Right, so people have expressed their skepticism about the cost of the Havocs, but because they haven't done so in a manner you arbitrarily decided was the correct one, you haven't emailed BTP in order to document the response?

Not seeing that one, sorry, if the point is valid (and, yes, in the case of this charge, I personally find people's reactions totally understandable) then why is it important how they express it to you? Or are you just writing off (potentially) valid criticism and dismissing it as "hating" (ugh, I hate that word) as so often happens with GW advocates in the more controversial GW debates?

If your intention was to genuinely try and document a typical BTP experience (something which likely failed as soon as you made the thread, but meh) then your most important job is to mitigate the extremity of the criticism and try and act as a filter for that, not pack up and go home as soon as things got heated. You had an opportunity to contact BTP and get a rationale as to the cost of an elementary alteration to your models, but have instead opted to throw your hands up and walk away.

Yes my intention was to document a typical BTP interaction, AND YES AS I HAVE SAID, it would have been better if I had posted this thread AFTER I received the army, BUT LIKE I SAID people in Tenebres thread were pushing me to make it calling me liar or accusing me of being a BTP employee whiteknighting the company. So yeah you can blame me for having good intentions and not executing them well, or you can blame the posters who insulted me and made me feel pushed into opening the thread. And how is it my job to mitigaste criticism? This thread is not an OPINION how can people critisize it or me? This thread serves the sole purpose of showing people who are potential customers or are just curious about the interactions between client and BTP. I POSTED IT IN P&M BLOGS, IT WAS MOVED TO DISCUSSIONS BY A MOD. And another thing, since im not updating this thread anymore how the hell would you know if i didnt already contact BTP about the havocs? Since im taking my ball home, you wont know if I did and what BTPs response was. You can argue all you want about how my abritrary rules are not well defined and bla bla bla, point is, the thread is getting closed and if it doesnt I wont update it anymore. I tried to give some insight into how a BTP transaction worked, people used it to find more reasons to hate BTP over whatever if thats what they are getting out of it then fine but I wont be part of it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Alpharius wrote:
Threads that stay on topic and do not break the rules of the site tend to NOT get closed.

Fine if the mod I pm'd decides the same way then it will stay open. But it wont be updated by me thats for sure!

So, this was all for nothing then? Unsubscribed.

Well that was a roller coaster from start to finish...

It does seem a bit like throwing your toys out of the pram to not update it now though. You started it, you may as well see it through. From what I read no one overly broke the 'rules' you set anyway, they were just offering opinions that happened to be counter to your own, in terms of things like the havoc launchers etc. there's a reason a lot of the replies to that part were negative, and that's because it's a pretty dick move to charge you for a whole rhino kit for one part.

M0ff3l - If you are concerned about being anti-BTP ammo, then the ammo is already in play. You may as well update with your experience from here on out.

I think the problem is probably that the vocal minority are voicing their feelings. For posterity, and for the silent watchers of the thread, it's probably worth updating (in my opinion).

I'd be interested in your experience at the end. One of Ten's criticisms was that he didn't receive photos as he requested, and that his amendments were no carried out.

So I'd be interested in your candid appraisal of how that section works out, because I think that was one of the key areas they failed with Ten's commission.

Are you absolutely resolved, not to update this thread? Honestly, I think if you get stuff sorted with the rhino things, then surely the worst of it will be already out in the open.

Also, I'd like to point out to the critics. He was pretty honest in his appraisal of the value of the $60 conversion fee and freehand painting fee.

Oh yeah I've just read that, even you weren't happy with the price of the conversion? So people were agreeing with your opinion about that, but they still broke your rules...?

I suppose me and you are using neutral in different ways. I see it was during the review he looked at all the angles, and at the end gave a warning based on a neutral/fair/level-headed choice. You are using neutral more in the sense of an emotionless opinion less post. Both are correct just different views on the same thing.

You can have a neutral discussion but people are going to disagree on points and bring up points of concern they feel are important (such as costs). I concede your point that some have handled that very very badly but the mods seem to have reeled them in for the most part. The mods are doing a good job on this thread (thanks guys!) so I dont see the reason why it needs to be closed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Alpharius wrote:
Threads that stay on topic and do not break the rules of the site tend to NOT get closed.

Fine if the mod I pm'd decides the same way then it will stay open. But it wont be updated by me thats for sure!

ClockworkChaos wrote:
I suppose me and you are using neutral in different ways. I see it was during the review he looked at all the angles, and at the end gave a warning based on a neutral/fair/level-headed choice. You are using neutral more in the sense of an emotionless opinion less post. Both are correct just different views on the same thing.

You can have a neutral discussion but people are going to disagree on points and bring up points of concern they feel are important (such as costs). I concede your point that some have handled that very very badly but the mods seem to have reeled them in for the most part. The mods are doing a good job on this thread (thanks guys!) so I dont see the reason why it needs to be closed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Alpharius wrote:
Threads that stay on topic and do not break the rules of the site tend to NOT get closed.

Fine if the mod I pm'd decides the same way then it will stay open. But it wont be updated by me thats for sure!

So your not going to update anything at all? Not even the results or the times that they give you more info?

I hope you realize that this lack of updates just gives reason to everyone who doubts BTP and gives an even more negative light for newcomers who see this. It makes it seem like someone who is using BTP had a concern arise really early in the process and then stopped posting anything about it. I suppose I would like to ask you from a purly objective standpoint (or as objective as you can make it), does that seem like what you have done has helped your point/actually portray an interaction with BTP or does this not make it look like all interactions with them are of poor quality? Just something to consider.

In terms of the other thread, just think about how much Tenebre would have paid, and what the results were. He's going to have a pre-formed opinion, and fair enough! It's his money, and his army.

Shame this couldn't last, it was shaping up to be interesting. Kinda suspicious the plug just getting pulled like that. Maybe Shawn's holiday to the Netherlands has come to an end.

 Riquende wrote:
Shame this couldn't last, it was shaping up to be interesting. Kinda suspicious the plug just getting pulled like that. Maybe Shawn's holiday to the Netherlands has come to an end.

You think Shawn posted this entire thing, including mentioning the $60 price tag for "conversion" and freehand, and his dissatisfaction with it?

Seems like he's pulling the plug, because he's sick of people jumping to conclusions. I can kind of see his point: he got called a shill and a liar because he was going to wait, then called a shill and a liar because he posted an in progress comission, and now he's a fraud because you think he is Shawn.

I mean, I'm defending him, so I'm Shawn too?
Skink (from the other thread) was likely Shawn as well? I mean he didn't jump on the band-wagon with both feet, right?

If Shawn was going to bother posting something like this, it wouldn't have anything like the conversion fee. He would have quoted a couple of bucks for the havoc launcher.

 M0ff3l wrote:
I just feel like people are not using this thread for the purpose I intended for it.

But your purpose was not legitimate. You might have intended for this to be a "why BTP is awesome" thread, but that's not a very good start for an open and honest discussion. If you genuinely want a neutral review and not a BTP propaganda thread then that includes allowing criticism of BTP's actions in relation to your commission. But it seems like your stated desire for neutrality was less about an honest attempt to document the process from a neutral starting point and more about using "neutral" as a cover for a biased review.

Oh and telling me that I am wasting my money didnt help either.

But you were indisputably wasting your money. If BTP says "we keep extra parts unless you ask for them" and you don't ask for them then you're just throwing away money. It might be a small enough amount of money that you don't care about wasting it, but you're still wasting it.

Im kinda done with DakkaDakka and its community.

So because people dared to criticize a painting service (for very good reasons) and didn't follow your "rules" for how they're "allowed" to talk about BTP you're taking your ball and going home? I'm not going to say that the people accusing you of being a BTP employee are indisputably right, but you sure aren't making a good case for your third-party neutrality.

 Lockark wrote:

 M0ff3l wrote:
I have asked a mod to close the thread. This post was made to showcase how an average interaction works with BTP. As the very first sentence states I didnt want it turning into another hate bandwagon. Which probably half of you didnt read as most of you only now start raging at the 60$ conversion even though that was in the opening post from the start... Also I cant believe how unthankfull you people are, I make this thread to give an honest review from start to finish and you people criticize me for having BTP make my army etc. Its my money, they are my models and its my choice. So If there is anything you want to ask me related to how working with BTP was so far or any other questions about the general process with BTP, ask me now or PM me.

If the $60 conversion involved buying a whole new rhino to get the parts, ask for them to send the rest of the rhino on sprue back to you with the army. You could easily resell the rest of the kit at like $20 to someone locally to you.

I'm outraged at the fact your just letting them pocket a whole rhino off of you.

So mof. You ignored this post. Are you planning on letting blue table pocket the two rhinos they made you pay for, or are you going to ask for them?

 Peregrine wrote:

Im kinda done with DakkaDakka and its community.

So because people dared to criticize a painting service (for very good reasons) and didn't follow your "rules" for how they're "allowed" to talk about BTP you're taking your ball and going home? I'm not going to say that the people accusing you of being a BTP employee are indisputably right, but you sure aren't making a good case for your third-party neutrality.