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For the micro-armor poll, do we need to register on your forum to vote? I'd like to vote for resin but it's not that pressing of an issue...

If I'm not mistaken, the decision was made to stick with Pewter for the 6mm figures.

Well then. Consider me nonplussed.

 Forar wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, the decision was made to stick with Pewter for the 6mm figures.

Ah man. Bummer. The vast majority of people voted for resin...

 RiTides wrote:

 Forar wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, the decision was made to stick with Pewter for the 6mm figures.

Ah man. Bummer. The vast majority of people voted for resin...

I'd rather have resin as well, but honestly, if there is even one person that bought into the 6mm _because_ they were advertised as metal, and Jon can only do one material (which makes sense financially), then metal _should_ be respected as the material of choice.

Agreed.

If it's that appealing to some people, perhaps we've found some stretch goals for the next campaign? Not the main focus (the quads), but something to include if the numbers get driven high enough?

While a lot of people would be fine with resin, there were several people who purchased the 6mm specifically because of them being metal. They didn't post much publically but I got several messages about not wanting the material changed. Also after doing a comparison of primed models I didn't see enough of a quality difference to warrant any changes as it was exceedingly difficult to tell what the materials were once paint was on the model.

The only reason I'd brought it up for discussion was the feedback that I'd received from people viewing the unprimed models, even then it was largely a hypothetical "what if I offer this option?"

I was originally going with the 15mm because of the resin, then a pal of mine said he was going with 6mm because it fit another game he wanted to play. So I went to the 6mm so we could play at the same scale. Then his wife vetoed his purchase and I got locked in at 6mm. So I was hoping we might see 6mm resin, but not badly enough to want Paulson to find himself in conflict with his customers or his accountant.

 SavageRobby wrote:

 RiTides wrote:

 Forar wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, the decision was made to stick with Pewter for the 6mm figures.

Ah man. Bummer. The vast majority of people voted for resin...

I'd rather have resin as well, but honestly, if there is even one person that bought into the 6mm _because_ they were advertised as metal, and Jon can only do one material (which makes sense financially), then metal _should_ be respected as the material of choice.

I disagree with that extreme of a premise, though. This is a project, things can evolve at least somewhat, at least for the better! I would have offered to refund those few backers unhappy with the change, and made the improved product (resin) for the rest, based on the backers preference as expressed in the poll.

The poll showed the clear preference of the vast majority of backers was for resin. It's odd to take that poll then choose the opposite result. Not a huge deal... just pointing out what seemed obvious based on the feedback given in the update comments and your forum thread / in this thread.

I would agree, _IF_ the poll were cinducted prior to the project funding. But as soon as money is collected based off an explicit promise, in this case, the statement that 6mm models would be dine in metal, you _have_ to honor that promise to those that supported because of that promise (or offer a redund). Otherwise you're changing the parameters and it's a bait and switch, pure and simple.

Not if he's offering both and people who want metal get metal, and those that want resin can switch to resin, and both are available for sale.

 Ovion wrote:
Not if he's offering both and people who want metal get metal, and those that want resin can switch to resin, and both are available for sale.

That does create extra cost for him however.

 SavageRobby wrote:

I would agree, _IF_ the poll were cinducted prior to the project funding. But as soon as money is collected based off an explicit promise, in this case, the statement that 6mm models would be dine in metal, you _have_ to honor that promise to those that supported because of that promise (or offer a redund). Otherwise you're changing the parameters and it's a bait and switch, pure and simple.

Agreed- But I simply would've offered refunds to those people! The increased sales long-term would more than make up for it. There's a huge craving for resin by hobbyists lately, and it would've been a real winner in the material. Now, to outsiders it's just another metal small scale mech line. Obviously, his 15mm can still shine in resin, this is just regarding 6mm.

Ovion- He said he would only choose one material, presumably due to cost. It just baffles me to poll and see the overwhelming preference, and commit yourself to the opposite choice, indefinitely.

I can see where some people may have wanted resin, and polled for that option.

But the same people knew the 6mm miniatures were being made in metal, and still bought in with the knowledge that they were going to be metal. It may have been a nice passing thought, but again, after seeing both side by side with some paint there doesn't seem to be any loss of detail.

Yeah, sucks for people that really would have liked resin. It doesn't mean that future runs can't be made of resin.

I doubt he'd change the material later, though? I'm certainly happy with my pledge, but it was just to try things out. If I loved the models I'd considered buying a lot more later. Resin would make that much harder to resist.

Metal is "good enough"... but resin would greatly broaden the appeal. Dreamforge is an obvious example of this, switching away from metal and raising a ton more interest in their line.

I won't belabor it more, I just think the wrong path is being chosen for the long term success of the game, and I feel it was now or never to express this.

How many people bought into the 6mm line? The larger, more detailed 15mm mini's are in resin. People that have them can show them off to garner interest in the line.

For a first run in a kickstarter, it will work I think.

I'd agree with you, ski2060, if I really felt it was only a "first run". But, once metal molds are paid for (admittedly, they aren't that expensive- but they're not free, either) and a lot of models made and released in the material, I can't really see there being a switch later- Paulson was pretty clear that only one material would have to be chosen.

So, that's why I brought it up now. I'm happy with metal, but don't think it's the best choice for the success of the game.

And now I really am done, back to waiting on cool mech renders

Yes. We need more Blackfrost renders, with awesome sensor domes under the chin added just for my models

Painting up 15mm stuff along with all the other stuff I have in my paint queue. Sooo.... much.... stuff....

 RiTides wrote:
The poll showed the clear preference of the vast majority of backers was for resin.

Point of pedantry; the poll would be indicative that the majority of people who voted in the poll wanted resin.

Does one need to be a backer in order to get on the forum? In order to vote? What about have a pledge for 6mm figures (other than the promo Lynx, as those are already made so it's kind of a moot point)? Obviously the people who didn't get Micro figures are free to have a say in what they'd like to see come down the pipe, and I'm sure there's even some folks that ordered some of both, perhaps as add ons for another system or just to sit on the desk, whatever, but does that trump those who backed specifically for the option?

Just trying to point out that the most accurate way to obtain the information would have been to message the ~53 backers at "Micro ______" tiers and ask them individually. While that's nearly a quarter of the backers (assuming all 199 paid, which isn't necessarily the case), it's a small enough number where 'a few' people speaking up in public and a few others in private for metal can become 10 or 20%+ pretty quickly.

And, as I noted earlier, there's nothing stopping him from creating resin molds for them down the road, if the demand/market seems to be there, as an addendum to his current line or as an aspect to the potential second KS when the Quads start looking like they might come online.

Full disclosure, I backed for 3 micro armour figures, and noted in the comments I would prefer pewter. I wan't going to demand a refund or otherwise lose my gak if the change happened, but being pewter was part of the appeal for me, as I'm vastly more familiar with working with it (in my very limited experience) than I am with resin. If I'd wanted resin figures, I'd have backed for resin figures.

I think it's fine to ask, and I'm glad that even if the forum poll exploded in love of resin (I never got around to joining the forums or voting there, but did speak up in the KS comments), we're still getting what was initially advertised.

And I do hope that resin 6mm figures can be made a reality for those who find such things appealing.

Opinion and actual purchasing are two very different things, lots of people were stating that they prefer resin. However when I did have the resin version available on my website there were virtually no sales of that model and I ended up giving away the majority of the copies at Adepticon, out of 100 lynx copies I made I sold 9, so there's not a huge demand simply due to it being available in resin.

What was stated on the KS is that metal would be used, those that pledged for the 6mm models were either in favor of the metal or indifferent enough that it didn't impact their decision to pledge/purchase. (I sold 85 of them in metal vs only 9 in resin)

I wanted to see what people's thoughts were if I looked at making resin an option, while many would have been fine with it there were several people who stated very directly that they preferred metal and would not like a change. Given that was what was stated in the original KS pitch it's best just to continue with the original plan as I don't see enough of a quality difference to warrant a change when it will cost me backers.

It's something I should have remained silent on until after I'd done more comparisons with primed models, and in seeing the result of virtually identical quality I never would have brought it up, so it was a bit of foot in the mouth.

Resin might be an option in the future for the 6mm models, but it's rather doubtful given that it didn't have enough sales to support it previously. The metal versions met the mark I was looking for with the KS so they have at least proven viable enough in the short term.


(I think that the people who are attracted to resin products are more focused on the larger 15mm scale models).

Nice to see the other side of the curtain. I wonder why the demand for resin was/is so low.

 Manchu wrote:
Nice to see the other side of the curtain. I wonder why the demand for resin was/is so low.

I didn't buy the resin 6mm for a few reasons:
1. It wasn't the exact version I wanted. I wanted the one with the two bigger guns that he had shown in render, but nor produced.
2. He said that he would make the rendered version available during the kickstarter. (He did.) So, I waited.
3. Knowing there was a kickstarter coming, I probably wouldn't have bought the resin 6mm anyway since I would probably be able to buy it and a few others for a better price with some sort of discount on shipping during the Kickstarter. (I bought what I could I reasonably afford/convince my wife I 'needed'.)

The timing may have been the biggest issue with his resin 6mm sales, at least according my anecdotal evidence. Were the metals all sold through the kickstarter?

Resin is still rather uncommon in Micro Armor scale products, most of the traditional 6mm gamers prefer metal due to the small size of most models it helps make them more durable and also keeps their collections consistent (being all metal) I've sold both resin and metal models on the battletech forums in the past and the metals usually sell at least 3-4 times as many models. People always liked the quality of the resin models but always said they wish they were metal as that's apparently still the preferred material for that scale.


I think resin is much more accepted by the 28mm crowd as it's officially been blessed by GW as a "legit" product, prior to them launching their marketing campaign for finecast a lot of people didn't want resin. It's kind of sad how much sway GW has in shaping the gaming markets, even those largely unrelated to their stuff. As much as I detest finecast for being a terrible quality product it did make resin far more accepted option by gamers as a whole. It's odd but when I was doing resin back before finecast launched a lot of people stated they disliked the fact I used resin in my bits, now they love it so the market opinionhas changed considerably.

IMO most of the people who were voting for resin were people who likely do primarily 15mm & 28mm gaming and likely more open to it as an option. (many of the votes were from people on dakka which is a primarily 28mm crowd)

With my own stuff I think people wanting the resin detail are planted with the 15mm side as it was intended to appeal more to the modelers and painters in being able to be worked with easier.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
Nice to see the other side of the curtain. I wonder why the demand for resin was/is so low.

I didn't buy the resin 6mm for a few reasons:
1. It wasn't the exact version I wanted. I wanted the one with the two bigger guns that he had shown in render, but nor produced.
2. He said that he would make the rendered version available during the kickstarter. (He did.) So, I waited.
3. Knowing there was a kickstarter coming, I probably wouldn't have bought the resin 6mm anyway since I would probably be able to buy it and a few others for a better price with some sort of discount on shipping during the Kickstarter. (I bought what I could I reasonably afford/convince my wife I 'needed'.)

The timing may have been the biggest issue with his resin 6mm sales, at least according my anecdotal evidence. Were the metals all sold through the kickstarter?

Exactly. It also seemed like a test, as a single model. I needed time to switch scales, as I sold my 15mm to plastictrees, then pledged for 6mm. Timing and uncertainty is the main reason for the single lynx not selling, imo.

New parts for the 15mm Lynx came in today.

Sent out files to the printer for the 15mm Raptor B & C, as well as the Cougar A in both 15mm and 6mm.

Sent off masters to the spin caster for the 6mm Raptors, Goshawks and Lynx models.

Also had some quicksketches done for the other Cougar variants. I'll be toying bit with the final scale but it gives a good idea of what the designs will look like.

I could not be more into these. They fit perfectly, with just the right amount of detail.

I like how Jon just keeps banging out cool designs, chugging along at a reasonable pace, updating us all the while, and show progress.

No super-secret workflow, and at one dude plus a few benevolent ancillaries, too.

I don't know about this. With all this info, timely updates and progress visibly made, we can't make baseless accusations and speculations and get super angry at each other and Jon. Too peaceful.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
I like how Jon just keeps banging out cool designs, chugging along at a reasonable pace, updating us all the while, and show progress.

No super-secret workflow, and at one dude plus a few benevolent ancillaries, too.

I don't know. I think his approach has a serious drawback; it's been how many weeks and this campaign still hasn't produced a single meme?