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Edit: Choice of doctrines have been changed in light of the advice that popped up. New choices are found a few posts down

As mentioned in my Space marines thread (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/205388.page), myself and a couple of friends are starting up a 'tale of X gamers' of our own, set to begin come January. This has led to some discussions back and forth about what we'll be fielding, and some of us trying desperatley to convince others NOT to field -armies and such.

My latest idea for this setup, was inspired by some pictures of a converted Tallarn Desert Raider found at http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/47498.page#48132 .
I love the background fluffiness of the Tallarns, what with their workings with the Eldar against the Chaos Forces that attacked their planet. Not to mention the fact that the models look great, both GWs and Forgeworld (well, most of them). Alas, my wallet can't afford to field a regular SAFH consisting only of Tallarn metals, and my body is quite happy with keeping both my kidneys, so when I came across the picturs of these relativly simple conversions from Cadians, I literally jumped up and down. I figured I could use them to field an Imperial Guard regiment inspired by the French Foreign Legion. Based around a core of Tallarn Veterans (represented by Tallarn metals), the converted cadians would symbolize off-worlders and others drawn in to train with the expert desert raiders. This allows me to field my army as both a loyalist regiment (though a somewhat unorthodox one, given that IG regiments are usually made, then left to slowly die out as they loose troops) and as a renegade/Chaos supporting group (Although I'm fairly certain someone will get up in my face about using arabic-looking models to symbolize Chaos worshippers)

So I grabbed my IG codex, and started checking for units and doctrines. Lots of questions turn up, which I hope some of you can help me with.

Doctrines

The Tallarn doctrines aren't quite what I had in mind. So, I opted to adjust them a wee bit, and have come up with the following:

Rough rider squadrons - can't do without them on this one. Despite the fact that I love the idea, I've yet to see a IG force where I live that use them. First time for everything. Not to mention that they're a converting project waiting to happen
Light infantry - keeping with the theme of the stealthy ambushers
Sharpshooters - again, this keeps with the theme of a well-trained force (as well as being listed as a Tallarn doctrine)
Special weapon squads - I want these, simple as that. A small specialised ambushing task force

That leaves one doctrine slot left. The Tallarn list has Priests and Hardened Fighters. I don't fancy priests, so those are off. Hardened Fighters are an interesting possibility, but I'm really not sure if they're worth it. Normally I shiver when I think about guardsmen entering CC, and spending points to add +1 WS is something I'm reluctant to do without considering the possibilities. What do you think? Suggestions for other doctrines for that slot are more than welcome.

If anything defines this setup, it's the Light Infantry doctrine. Does anyone have any experience with these? How would you go about playing an army based on that? Get up in their face and fire off all your nasty short-range weapons? Make use of this ability to claim vantage points for shooting? Get them as close as possible to get into CC? Thoughts and ideas most welcome

The list

While I haven't made a point-by-point list yet, I've tossed around some ideas about what I'd like this army to include:

- Rough riders: One thing that inspired me to maybe field this army were the picture in the 'Imperial Guard Collectors' guide' of a group of Tallarn Rough riders mounted on Cold ones. That, and the fact that I've never seen them used where I live and play. I figure one or two of these squads to have manuverable force that can strike from unexpected angles, hopefully taking out key elements in the process. That, or they can be used to claim table quarters if need be.

- Hellhounds: It's manuverable, and it kicks arse. Simple as that. The ability to move and fire, as well as being able to take out a fair range of opponents make me want to have at least one of these. Perhaps as a support for the rough riders?

- Sentinels: due to the amount of fast attack choices I want to include, these would likely have to be fielded as support for the Command Platoon. Their weapon setup will depend on what the other parts of my army will field

- Special weapon squads: These can fielded in two ways, I gather. Either as suicide groups that infiltrate as close as possible, toss of their demolition charges and opens up with whatever weapons they have. Or, as sniper units. Although my first idea was to go with demo charges, snipers have a certain appeal as well

- Heavy weapon support: keeping with the tallarn theme, I'd like to field these with missile launchers. The 'sharpshooters' doctrine allows them to reroll a miss each round, which can't be bad.

- Demolishers: I envision Demolishers moving up to draw attention away from the softer parts of the mobile force (Hellhouns, sentinels, rough riders). As they come close enough, they open fire at whatever is most profitable

- Regular infantry squads: I picture these infiltrating in to take the most advantage of terrain and the opponents deployment. While it would be nice to get them as close as possible to take advantage of their BS3 rerolls, this leaves them open to return fire and quick countercharges. I wonder if they'll survive long enough to do any good? Again, keeping with the Tallarn theme, plasma guns and missile launchers would be the thing. Perhaps a lascannon or two for good measure.


That's what I've got so far. I see this force as one very dependant on strategy, as with multiple infiltartors you have the possibility of waiting to see what your opponent does before making your choices. But once that part is done, will they be up to the task?

Agandhjin

Take the following with a grain of salt as a lot of this is pure listhammer and the recollections of an old 3rd casual player.

I think you're probably right about Priests and Hardened Fighters.* Both these doctrines work against the strengths of the IG list. Fluffy Tallarn squad weapons are quite good IMHO and they have three other reasonable doctrines.

I would not bother with the Special Weapons Doctrine. Instead, why not field Schaeffer and a few one-man bomb squads? Comes in at 25 points in lieu of 60 - albeit also with the forced purchase of a small "squad" of two characters - the demo charge explodes just as large and the crew are even more expendable. I *believe* Schaeffer and his boys can deep strike, or at least have access to it through Drop Troops.

Drop Troops can also be used on Sentinels - a multilaser in the flank arc of anything but a Land Raider is a nasty and potentially fatal distraction, and a lone Martian Sentinel is as disposable as a remnant squad. Remnants and command squads with melta/plasma guns are also useful with it

If you want snipers, take the Ratling Sniper Restricted Troops choice and use human models. People will figure it out when they wonder which IG unit has ten sniper rifles. These guys get infiltrate for free and make a decent answer to dakkafexes , Daemon Princes and Ctan, though don't expect much use of them in traditional sniping roles. (disrupting enemy movement/calling in air - you're not Tau)

If you use Sharp Shooters, I would confine it to Fire Support Squads. A few more or less lasgun shots aren't that great, whereas on a fire support squad its an extra half a heavy bolter or autocannon, and 2s and 3s have an obnoxious way of coming up when you grab this for an AT squad...

The command squad of the heavy support platoon should IMHO be fielded with no upgrades or wargear, while the weapons squads (of whatever you end up picking) ought to take Light Infantry. In gamma cleanse scenarios, plop the Officer and his four flunkies 6" away from the midpoint - this will cost your opponent 6" of deployment space - while the real squads can infiltrate into better positions once the enemy places his pieces.

I am personally not a fan of AT squads at all for IG. Because they have low toughness, heavy weapons are best protected by as many guardsmen as possible although many players find them useful for pinging on targets at 37-48". Once they start to take fire, you will start to lose guns, simple as that. You also get ripped off for 15 points buying missile launchers this way.

For blowing spare points, the two-point IG "auspex", unless erratad, is great. (catch those heretics before they get into the bush in front of you)

Rough Riders are great for counter charge against Space Marines or armies with similar basic stats. (MEQs)

so

I'd probably vote for:
Rough Riders
Light Infantry (the two doctrines that pretty much ARE Tallarn)
Close Order Drill (free leadership - just group up around your officer and its LD 9 for 40 points)

Two of: Drop Troops, Veterans, Iron Discipline, (representing say some powerful hereditary sheikh or something - also just plain good) Ratlings, or Heavy Weapons Platoons EXCEPT Veterans AND Ratlings (will compete for Elites slots)

*HF is cool for one squad: Lieutenant, Honorifica Imperialis, Power Sword, Medallion Crimson with 4 Guardsmen with pistols and close order drill. Yep, it all adds up - this is the one way to get a WS5 I5 character for IG, though he IS still S3 and the points may be better spent elsewhere. This guy can also make a limited vox network useful to relay LD10 to maybe two other squads.

- Post has been edited as to reflect new choices, based on Wight_widow's advice and some of my own thoughts -

Thanks for an insightful reply, Wight_widow. You give quite a few good pointers, some of which I'm bound to take to heart.
As for the doctrines you suggest, I can't say I agree with close-order drill. To me, it symbolises more the close-kept ranks
of the Mordians than the Desert skirmishers of Tallarn. Effect is great, but in keeping with my envisioned background, it won't
work out.

As of now, I'm working with the following doctrines:

- Rough riders
- Light Infantry (Agreed, these two define the raiders more than anything)
- Die-hards (At least for the upcoming Rough riders, to represent the fact that they are veterans of several campaigns)
- Veterans (As with the background I'm writing up, the regiment will consist of Tallarn veterans [vet.sergeants and such]
who are in charge of teaching the new recruits [represented by converted cadians) how things are done)

That leaves one doctrine point left. Not sure what to do with that. While I'll go with a Schaffer 'stand-in' in regular games,
I might spend this on 'special weapon squads' to be able to use demolition charges in games that do not allow special characters.
Or perhaps keep 'Sharpshooters.' Not sure about this yet.

Now, with the above modifications in mind, here's what a 400 point patrol force might look like:

Junior Command Squad - 82 points
- Lascannon
- Vox caster
- Surveyour
- 'Light infantry' doctrine


Infantry squad A - 109 points
- Vox caster
- Missile launcher
- Plasma gun
- Veteran sergeant w/Bolter, Surveyour
- 'Light infantry' doctrine

Infantry squad B - 109 points
- same as Infantry squad A

Sentinel A - 50 points
- Multilaser
- Extra armour

Sentinel B - 50 points
- Multilaser
- Extra Armour

Total points: 400

That gives me 1x Lascannon, 2x Missile Launcers, 2x plasma guns, 2x multilasers, 2 bolters and 18 lasguns. Should be enough firepower, eyh?

al-Majid Agandhjin bin Ahfal al-Rashid

Now I know this forum is supposed to be about tactics, so my post might be misplaced. But I'd like to continue with my thoughts on the list above.
I always try to keep an army in 'modular parts,' meaning that all I have to do to get more points, is simply adding additional 'parts,' without having to
modify the ones used in smaller engagements. With IG, I find that easier than most armies.

So, here's my suggestion for expanding from 400 to 1000 points.

-HQ- - 2 choices

Command HQ -90 points
- Heroic senior officer
- Master vox

Sentinel Support squadron - 50 points (This is one of the sentinels from the 400 points patrol list, moved from FA to HQ-support)
- Multilaser
- Extra armour

Schaeffer (- 150 points)
- Missile launcher team (1 specialist and one Last chancer)
- 3 Last chancers

Kage (- 110 points)
- Missile launcher team (1 specialist and one Last chancer)
- 3 Last chancers

Demolition specialists (- 52 points)
- 2x specialists w/demolition charges (fielded as two sub-units)

total cost of Schaeffer 'stand-in' units: 312 points
* Shaeffer counts as both an HQ and a Troop choice

- Troops - - 2 Choices (Schaeffer counts as both HQ and Troop due to size)

Junior Command Squad - 82 points
- Lascannon
- Vox caster
- Surveyour
- 'Light infantry' doctrine

Infantry squad A - 109 points
- Vox caster
- Missile launcher
- Plasma gun
- Veteran sergeant w/Bolter, Surveyour
- 'Light infantry' doctrine

Infantry squad B - 109 points
- same as Infantry squad A

- Fast Attack - - 3 choices

Rough rider squadron A - 96 points
- 6x rough riders
- 4x hunting lances
- 1x melta gun
- Veteran sergeant
- Power weapon
- Plasma pistol
- 'Die-hards' doctrine

Rough rider squadron B - 96 points
- Same as Rough rider squadron A

Sentinel A - 50 points
- Multilaser
- Extra armour

Total points cost: 994 points

Weapon count: 1x Lascannon, 4x missile launchers, 2x plasma guns, 2x meltaguns, 2x demo charges, 2x multilaser, 2x bolters + bunch of lasguns

Themewise, Schaeffer will be the de-facto leader of the bunch ('stand-in- will be Cpt. al-Rahem), with the Last Chancers, Rough riders and veteran
sergeants representing the surviving Tallarn veterans (who will be modeled with Tallarn metals). All others are the 'recruits' the company's charged
with training.

This force is all about strategy. Almost everything can infiltrate (either due to 'Light infantry' or being a 'Last Chancer'), having Schaeffer and his
Macharian Cross gives an additional strategic advantage, and the two demolition charge specialists have the option of either infiltrating or 'drop-poding',
whichever suits the mission best.

Any comments on how you might think this new setup might work out is greatly appriciated

al-Majid Agandhjin bin Ahfal al-Rashid

You shouldnt give rough riders melta and other stuff. Just the lances because they are one shot wonders, so keep them as cheap as possibble. In the HQ use junior officer+honorifica imperialis instead of heroic senior officer. You get the same statistics in that way but it is 5 point less than a HSO. Anyway it seems good and very themed

Thanks for the pointers Matex.

I'm inclined to agree with your take on the rough riders. However, I'm keeping them as they are now for two reasons:
- If my usual game group allows it, I'll be able to use the special option from the Tallarn list in IA-3: The Taros Campaign,
which gives each of them T4 at +5 points (If memory serves).
- Rough riders are awesome. I love them. I want them to matter (Whether there's a point to this or not is another matter)

As for your suggestion regarding the junior officer and Honorifica Imperialis. Sure, it will work, and it will save me five points.
However, as far as I can see, I don't need those extra points anywhere. And something about such metagaming doesn't feel
right with me, so I try to avoid it as often as possible. Personal preference, I guess.

As most thoughts about this concept now involve unit choices and setup, I've made a thread about it on the 'Army list' part of
the forum. You can find it at http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/205585.page

al-Majid Agandhjin bin Ahfal al-Rashid

Some one should make an Al Qaida Tallarn Desert Raiders army...I think itd be fun to fight against. Have them do shadey assualts from hiding, and instead of drop pits like Catachans have, let them have IEDs (Improvised Explosive Devices) aka road side bombs, but they'd have to be decently priced point wise. The leader could be Osama bin Laden...I know that some people would feel offended by me throwing this idea in the pot, but I think itd be interesting...hell, people make Nazi armies.

May I ask what relevance you think it has to this thread?