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(This adresses the same topic as http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/205549.page . As the discussion now has moved from doctrine choices and tactics over to force composition, I've opted to make a post about it here)

- Regiment background in summary -
The core of the regiment are Tallarn-born veterans of several desert wars, lastly the Taros Campaign. Originally a part of the Tallarn 17th, the severe losses that occured left the unit (i.e. the part led by Agandhjin, not the entire 17th) wanting in way of both numbers and armoured support. While they were marked for disbandment by the high command, Agandhjin (now promoted to Colonel) argued the value of keeping the veterans of his force on duty as specialists and instructors. Thus a new, somewhat unorthodox regiment was formed. Consisting of Tallarn veterans, their numbers are supplemented by 'drafting' from other decimated regiments. The result, a hard core of veteran desert fighters, and a gathering of volunteers eager to learn the ways of the Tallarns.

- Doctrines -

- Rough riders
- Light Infantry (these two basically define the Desert Raiders of Tallarn)
- Die-hards (At least for the upcoming Rough riders, to represent the fact that they are veterans of several campaigns)
- Veterans (Simply because it fits the bill. I hope to be able to represent all veteran sergeants, hardened veterans and Last Chancers
with Tallarn metal models, while the volunteers will be converted cadian plastics [to save money])

That leaves one doctrine point left. Not sure what to do with that. While I'll go with a Schaffer 'stand-in' in regular games,
I might spend this on 'special weapon squads' to be able to use demolition charges in games that do not allow special characters.
Or perhaps keep 'Sharpshooters.' Not sure about this yet.

- 400 point patrol force -

Junior Command Squad - 82 points
- Lascannon
- Vox caster
- Surveyour
- 'Light infantry' doctrine

Infantry squad A - 109 points
- Vox caster
- Missile launcher
- Plasma gun
- Veteran sergeant w/Bolter, Surveyour
- 'Light infantry' doctrine

Infantry squad B - 109 points
- same as Infantry squad A

Sentinel A - 50 points
- Multilaser
- Extra armour

Sentinel B - 50 points
- Multilaser
- Extra Armour

Total points: 400

That gives me 1x Lascannon, 2x Missile Launcers, 2x plasma guns, 2x multilasers, 2 bolters and 18 lasguns

- Tactics -

As long as the mission allows it, all the infantry have a chance to infiltrate into whatever position seems most advantageous at the time. The sentinels (two seperate squads) provide fire support, flank and are able to claim things if need be. Surveyours have been added due to extra points, and because it makes sense that a force whose speciality is ambushing know where their foes are.

- 1000 points -

-HQ- 2 choices

Command HQ - 90 points
- Heroic senior officer
- Master vox

Sentinel Support squadron - 50 points (This is one of the sentinels from the 400 points patrol list, moved from FA to HQ-support)
- Multilaser
- Extra armour

Schaeffer (- 150 points)
- Missile launcher team (1 specialist and one Last chancer)
- 3 Last chancers

Kage (- 110 points)
- Missile launcher team (1 specialist and one Last chancer)
- 3 Last chancers

Demolition specialists (- 52 points)
- 2x specialists w/demolition charges (fielded as two sub-units)

total cost of Schaeffer 'stand-in' units: 312 points
* Shaeffer counts as both an HQ and a Troop choice

- Troops - 2 Choices (Schaeffer counts as both HQ and Troop due to size)

Junior Command Squad - 82 points
- Lascannon
- Vox caster
- Surveyour
- 'Light infantry' doctrine

Infantry squad A - 109 points
- Vox caster
- Missile launcher
- Plasma gun
- Veteran sergeant w/Bolter, Surveyour
- 'Light infantry' doctrine

Infantry squad B - 109 points
- same as Infantry squad A

- Fast Attack - 3 choices

Rough rider squadron A - 96 points
- 6x rough riders
- 4x hunting lances
- 1x melta gun
- Veteran sergeant
- Power weapon
- Plasma pistol
- 'Die-hards' doctrine

Rough rider squadron B - 96 points
- Same as Rough rider squadron A

Sentinel A - 50 points
- Multilaser
- Extra armour

Total points cost: 994 points

Weapon count: 1x Lascannon, 4x missile launchers, 2x plasma guns, 2x plasma pistols, 2x meltaguns, 2x demo charges, 2x multilaser, 2x bolters + bunch of lasguns

- Tactics -

In general terms there's not much change between the tactics of the 400 pointer and the 1000 pointer, just more possibilities. The Last Chancers (aka Tallarn veterans) were an option Wight_Widow pointed out to me, and they fit the bill perfectly, being able to field 1-man demo charge teams (who can infiltrate/deep strike) and heavy weapon teams. Schaeffer will be renamed Colonel Agandhjin, and be represented på Cpt. al-Rahem. Incidently, his wargear allows for a single move of one unit after deployment, another tactical advantage to complement all the infiltrators and deep strikers. And the fact that the Last Chancers have their special morale rule doesn' hurt either.

Rough riders... I love them, and if I can keep the price down to a reasonable level, I intend to model them using Tallarn riders and Lizardmen cold ones. Simply because I think horses will look a bit dull. It's been pointed out that I might have put too much points in them. Ideally I'd like them to strike at critical targets, whether they be vehicles (plasma pistol/meltagun) or infantry (Lances, power weapon). HAving never seen them in action, I'm really not sure if this will work. Hopefully.

Now, what are your thoughts on these two lists? Will they work? Things to keep in mind:

- I like my forces 'modular.' Hence, what's in the 400 pointer should be included in the 1000 pointer as well
- Plasma guns and rocket launchers are the favoured weapons of Tallarns. So I'd like to keep them, theme-wise
- The Command HQ was fielded out of necessity. Without it, I wouldn't have enough fast attack choices to field my
sentinels as seperate units. Hopefully it's high leadership and master wox will pay off. If I can find the points, I'll
include a lascannon in it as well. In games that need a specified 'general' (such as assasination missions and such)
the de-facto leader of the force will be Colonel Agandhjin (Schaeffer)

Now then, suggestions and pointers are most welcome.

al-Majid Agandhjin bin Ahfal al-Rashid

Three or four little things: (notwithstanding the errata I don't keep up on)

Due to the wording on Master Vox, ordinary vox casters are not required to provide LD 9 to your squads from the Master Vox. You can still retain the models so long as you explain to your opponent that they will never be using the abilities of an ordinary vox.

Due to the wording on RR options, they may not actually take lances and squad special weapons. Tactically, Die Hards is not neccessary (a spare squad of four riders without lances can make a nuisance of itself as a scoring unit) and in terms of fluff you could consider that they are motivated more by a "hit and run" philosophy. If you want to have a little anti-tank ability, take a melta bomb for the sergeant - that way they can do a S8+D6 hit at 18+D6" - functionally this will penetrate a stationary Land Raider.

You've quite a few points in Schaeffer et al. I'd personally be more inclined to run two teams of one character and one demo charge and three teams of one demo charge with additional lasgunners thrown in to the one man teams to get the troops choice filled, or else try to do two platoons each of two squads. With metals used for Last Chancers, basic infantry isn't too much more expensive, point for point, than elite infantry.

The one-demo charge per character configuration allows Agandhjin or his less-than-faithful Sergeant Major to revert to independent character status (and untargettability) after seeing to it that the martyr (or rapist) they escort has gone to the Emperor. While it can be useful to have a fearless one man unit regardless of how pathetic its attack, you always have the OPTION of not placing the guardsman with lasgun after the demo charge goes off - and a deadman's switch and dynamite vest makes for a fun conversion.

Playing with Veteran Sergeants, I would not write off Close Order Drill. While not a particularly Arabic tactic, it is extremely turn-of-the-century Legion Etranger, and could be justified by saying that some of the green survivors still remember their parade ground drill. It also lets you get LD9 on your infantry should the Captain ever take a bullet.

Playing with Veterans, I would not write off Drop Troops. (fluff deep strikers as concealed piquets bursting from their covered fox holes - for the Sentinels you could pay the one point for (useless) Camo Nets to have a fluffier feel.)

On the subject of Sentinels, I don't think the extra armour is worth it on a 40 point vehicle. These guys are disposable - if your opponent keeps it from moving with a few heavy bolters or autocannon, that's a result that didn't kill it and a result that didn't hurt any other guardsman.

Hopefully HBMC meanders his way over here as he's really the fellow to talk to about IG lists and tends to give much more concrete advice.

Thanks for the advice, Wight_widow. The list is being modified as things move along, so I'll be posting a new draft whenever something changes
Sadly, what made it change this time was finances. After a trip to the local GW shop, I realised the cost I had to face, if I were to convert 12 rough
riders onto cold ones. As it was way above what I had hoped, I got a bit disillusioned. I really want them, but for a force that's supposed to stay
at 1000 points for the time being, I don't want to spend that much on something I'm not sure about how will work. And I don't want my list to
rely on them.

That, and the fact that I found two unfinished Leman Russes lying around at home, made me alter the list a bit. Here's my new take on 1000 points

(Edit: it has been brought to my attention that this list may not be legal, as 'Command Platoons' are obligatory in IG armies. I figured Schaeffer would
substitute this, but can't find any reference to support my claim. So they have been censored )



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Some of the points you present are muted by this, Wight_widow. As for the setup of the Last chancers, there's always the option of changing that from battle to battle, depending on where I want Schaeffer and Kage to be. The reason for fielding the 'larger unit' is simply wanting to have them represent units of desert warriors, not just loons charging forth with demo charges. Based on my ideas on how I want the force to look, really.

I'm intruiged by your suggestion regarding Close order drill. Not a bad idea at all, that As for the veterans and such, they really haven't found their way into the force yet.

Now then, how do you feel about this new draft?

al-Majid Agandhjin bin Ahfal al-Rashid

Right, the last one obviously didn't work out, but I left it there for continuity. This has forced me to reconsider the realisation of my entire force setup.
So, here's a new take on it. Doctrines need to be changed as well. They are now:

- Rough riders
- Light Infantry
- Tunnelers (Drop troops)
- Special weapon squads

One choice that haven't been decided yet.

-HQ- 1 choice

Junior Command Platoon - 77 points
- Lascannon
- Surveyour
- 'Light infantry' doctrine

Special weapon squad A - 63 points
- Demolition charge
- 2x flamers

Special weapon squad B - 63 points
- Demolition charge
- 2x flamers

- Troops - 2 choices

Platoon A

Junior Command Squad A - 77 points
- Lascannon
- Surveyour
- 'Light infantry' doctrine

Infantry squad A - 104 points
- Missile launcher
- Plasma gun
- Veteran sergeant w/Bolter, Surveyour
- 'Light infantry' doctrine

Infantry squad B - 104 points
- same as Infantry squad A

Platoon B

Junior Command Squad B - 77 points
- Lascannon
- Surveyour
- 'Light infantry' doctrine

Infantry squad C - 104 points
- Missile launcher
- Plasma gun
- Veteran sergeant w/Bolter, Surveyour
- 'Light infantry' doctrine

Infantry squad D - 104 points
- same as Infantry squad A

- Fast Attack - 3 choices

Rough riders - 79 points
- 6 riders
- Hunting lances
- Veteran sergeant w/melta bombs

Sentinel A - 51 points
- Multilaser
- Extra armour
- Search light

Sentinel B - 51 points
- Multilaser
- Extra armour
- Search light


Total points cost: 954 points

3 Lascannons, 4 missile launchers, 2 multilasers, 2 demo charges, 4 plasma guns, 4 flamers, 4 bolters, 1 melta bomb, 50+ lasguns

-------

While the realisation of the list has changed somewhat drastically (removed the entire Last Chancers and tank, added special weapon squads) the way I wanted it to function
stays the same. All infantry except the special weapon squads are allowed to infiltrate. In taking the 'drop troop' option for the special weapon squads, I intend to have them appear close to key enemy targets and take them out before (most likely) dying. There's still a reasonable amount of heavy weapons, and 46 points to spare.

So, any takes on this change of plans? (Except that I now suddenly have craploads of infantry to paint... that's guard for you)

al-Majid Agandhjin bin Ahfal al-Rashid