[V5] YMTC - Drop Pods Firing On the Turn They Land

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**yakface**

FOR THIS POLL, PLEASE ANSWER HOW YOU CHOOSE TO PLAY THE GAME, NOT NECESSARILY WHAT THE RULES AS WRITTEN (RAW) SAY.

The Space Marine Drop Pod rules say (SM codex, pg 15): "Drop Pod Assault: Drop Pods always enter play using the deep strike rules from the Mission Special Rules section of the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook."

and:

"Immobile: A Drop Pod cannot move once it has entered the battle, and counts in all respects as a vehicle that has suffered an immobilised damage result (which cannot be repaired in any way)."

The Deep Strike rules say (rulebook, pg 95): "[In the Shooting Phase, a Vehicle that has arrived via Deep Stike] count[s] as having moved at cruising speed."

The Vehicles Shooting rules say (rulebook, pg 58): "Vehicles that moved at cruising speed may not fire."

QUESTION: On the turn a Space Marine drop arrives via Deep Strike is it allowed to fire its Storm Bolter or Deathwind Missile Launcher?

OPTION A. The RAW: No, it cannot fire the turn it arrives.

OPTION B. This is clearly an oversight. Yes a Drop Pod can definitely fire the turn it arrives.

OPTION C. Something else entirely: reply exactly what it is below.

**Hollismason**

It can fire the stormbolter as it is a Defensive Weapon as it is str 4, it cannot fire the Deathwind Launcher as it is Str 5 and it counts as moving at Cruising for that turn.

Even though in the WD battle report he fires it on the first turn.

**Webbe**

Hmm, are there any fluff reasons why a drop pod should be able to fire on the turn it arrives?
Otherwise I think RAW (ie option A) is also what's intended as drop pods are the first things that comes to mind when someone mention deep striking vehicle and I really don't see how that could be an oversight.

Also, non fast vehicles can't fire any weapons (including defensive ones) when they move at cruising speed.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

The Drop Pod, on entry, counts as having moved at Cruising Speed that turn.

Ergo, as the Drop Pod has no special rules (Machine Spirit or other Vehicle Specific allowance) no, it cannot fire on the turn it arrives. The troops can though, which is nice.

**BBeale**

I think it is an oversight. In the recent WD battle report drop pods fire when they land, which makes sense from a background perspective as well.

Brice

**njfed**

I say it is an oversight. As BBeale points out, the WD battle report has the drop pod shooting on the turn it lands.

Now about my monolith...

**yakface**

Hollismason wrote:It can fire the stormbolter as it is a Defensive Weapon as it is str 4, it cannot fire the Deathwind Launcher as it is Str 5 and it counts as moving at Cruising for that turn.

This is incorrect. As I quoted from the rules a vehicle that moves at cruising speed may not fire, and that includes defensive weapons.

**Danny Internets**

I didn't realize that this was even a controversy. Everyone I know, even the more argumentative ones, accepts that this was an intentional change.

**SlaveToDorkness**

Er.... we have two rules stating they canot fire, and NO ambiguity, why is this a debate?!

Just a case of Space Marine player whining. C'mon guys, doesn't this new codex have enough (cheesy) stuff that "breaks all the rules"
without actually breaking the rules?

As for the Battle Report mistake, they do that ALL the time. Them screwing up doesn't automatically make it right.

This is one case where RAW is totally clear and should be followed. Unless somebody can come up with a rule saying they should be allowed to fire that isn't "Waaaaa,

I want them to" or "It's fluffy".

**yakface**

Nurgleboy77 wrote:Er.... we have two rules stating they canot fire, and NO ambiguity, why is this a debate?!

Read the initial post. This isn't a debate, this is simply a poll to see how people choose to play the game for whatever reason they choose.

It's to help get a rough idea on the percentage of people who think it is an oversight as compared to those who accept and use the RAW.

**SlaveToDorkness**

Hmmmm... OK. idon't play much for "oversights" without some sort of reason....at all.

Aparently I'm in the minority.

Hollisman thinks its an "oversight" that they're not Fast vehicles as well....lol.

**coredump**

I have noticed that the last several YMTC polls have devolved into RAW debates; it is as if no one bothers to read what is being asked.

These polls are *not* simply a vote as to what you think RAW is, they are a vote to determine how you think it *should* be played.

For illustration: the Lictor clearly has to roll for Dangerous terrain when it DSs into area terrain (which it has to do) yet many many people think that is bunk, and do not require that roll.

In this case, RAW is very clear, and was stated as such in the openning post. The question is if you agree that the RAW is how it should be played....

**NaZ**

It is clear that vehicles count as moving cruising speed.

so I voted A. unless you're a fast vehicle like a landspeeder or have some wargear that allows you to fire at cruising speed you cannot fire the turn you deepstrike

NaZ

**SlaveToDorkness**

Core, your illustration is from a codex written for a previous edition. Some 5th ed. issues are completely understandable (that's why we get FAQs with a new ed.) but this is from a 5th ed. codex! How could this be an oversight?!!

**JohnHwangDD**

Wow, this is also easy:

- Drop Pods always enter play using the deep strike

Note: it doesn't say "... and may fire when they arrive."

- a Vehicle that has arrived via Deep Stike] count[s] as having moved at cruising speed."

Note: it doesn't say "... except for shooting purposes."

- "Vehicles that moved at cruising speed may not fire."

Note: it doesn't say "... except for Defensive Weapons."

Now if there's an exception called out in the rules, I'd be OK with it, but this is otherwise very clear.

**BBeale**

This isn't a question of RAW guys. Is it really that big of a stretch to think that maybe GW intended drop pods to fire on the turn that they land. It certainly fits the background and the way the game has been played in WD. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if the "cruising speed" issue was an oversight, particularly since drop pods have a sort of unique quasi-vehicle status in the game from a traditional vehicle perspective.

Brice

**Stelek**

I put down A.

RAW is clear.

Intent is indeed otherwise, but they wrote the rules wrong.

**wyomingfox**

I chose A.

It is a pitty that DP in the codex did not get machine spirit as traditionally fluffwise they do have a machine spirit.

**1hadhq**

I voted B

Droppods simply got no vehicle classification. I think GW missed to note them as stationary.
Those wording as "immobile" would get droppods equipped as pure weapon platforms (available from FW?) into a situation where they:
arrive,sit there for a turn,shoot the next turn.
Transport-droppods would also support the passengers with covering fire.

So RAW is option A.
IMHO RAI is option B.

**winterman**

I don't think B is RAI. The pods are cheaper then the DA ones, I am sure to help promote their sales and use. To do that, i think they decided to drop the machine spirit, which they boosted to BS4. They would be extremely undercosted at 35 points if they had a BS4 machine spirit.

**Aduro**

Right now it's A, can't shoot. I would not be surprised if they changed it in an errata section of an FAQ however, to give the Drop Pod Power of the Machine Spirit and allow it to fire.

**1hadhq**

winterman wrote:I don't think B is RAI. The pods are cheaper then the DA ones, I am sure to help promote their sales and use. To do that, i think they decided to drop the machine spirit, which they boosted to BS4. They would be extremely undercosted at 35 points if they had a BS4 machine spirit.

DA droppods have WS 2 .
Codex SM droppods have WS 4.

Where is the machine spirit at DA/SM droppods?

**Tri**

I play A but i think its an over sight from GW ... in friendly games i'll play the way my SM friends would like ... heres hoping in the FAQ they don't give them Power of the Machine Spirit and just make them fast vehicals (i don't like the idea that they can still shoot a deathwind launcher when stunned or shaken)

**Breton**

I went option B, its an oversight. But I don't plan on firing my pods first turn until they FAQ it.

You can say they make those mistakes all the time, but rarely by the guy who wrote the codex the same month the codex goes live.

I do NOT think they'll give pods PotMS. If they do I thnk it would be a mistake. I think they'll add something else to the immobile rule allowing them to fire first turn. PotMS would be slightly too powerful allowing them to ignore stunned results.

Also had the final conclusion of A and B not been so adamant and polar opposites, I think we could see a lot of people voting for

D: A and B are true... The RAW says they cannot fire, but this was an oversight, and I expect it to be FAQ'ed in the first round or two, assuming the guys running the FAQ pay attention to forums like these that find the oopsies.

**SlaveToDorkness**

It isn't an "oopsy". They changed the rules in 5th so that you couldn't do it, then failed to change the Drop Pod's rules right after that Seems pretty clear RAI or RAW to me.

**Breton**

Except the guy who failed to change the drop pod rules played his drop pod as if he had changed the rules- or more likely didn't know he had to. So we're left with pretty clear RAW that they can't, and pretty clear RAI they can. I don't know about you, but that sounds like an oopsy in there somewhere.

And given that if he didn't want them to fire first turn, he wouldn't have shot them in the bat rep, I imagine the oopsy is in the RAW.

**lord_sutekh**

Go Go Gadget FAQ!

**sourclams**

I have no idea why people would think that they can fire drop pod weaponry on the turn they arrive. And my marine list uses 5 dpods, so I'd be helping myself considerably if I argued otherwise.

**JohnHwangDD**

If the "intent" is that you can use previous Codex rules even when they're not stated in the current Codex, then I guess Legions, Craftworlds, Traits, LatD, 13th Co., etc. are all good again. Yay!

**1hadhq**

sourclams wrote:I have no idea why people would think that they can fire drop pod weaponry on the turn they arrive. And my marine list uses 5 dpods, so I'd be helping myself considerably if I argued otherwise.

Maybe one idea would be Codex black templars ?
The BT droppods had a precise statement to allow firing the pods weapons at arrival.