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So, I tend to play a badly handled shot denial-style tau (with lots of stealth and SMS tanks firing from behind cover). However vassal has allowed me the pleasure of trying out a guard list. However, I found myself unable to decide between a mechanized list and a drop list (hence the "indecision")… so I did both! Is there any way you guys could see to improve it?

Doctrines
Grenaders
Vets
Drop Troops


HQ
Junior w/ 2 plasguns. 60
Chimera w/ M.Las/H.bolter/Pintle Stub/Smoke. 100
160

Troops

10 Stormtoopers w/ 2 plas:120
Chimera as above:100

10 Stormtoopers w/ 2 plas:120
Chimera as above:100

10 Stormtoopers w/ 2 plas:120
Chimera as above:100
660

Elites

5 vets w/3 meltas, sarge w/ plas pistol: 80

5 vets w/3 meltas, sarge w/ plas pistol: 80

5 vets w/3 meltas, sarge w/ plas pistol: 80

240

Fast Attack

3 sents w/ autocannons. 150

3 sents w/ autocannons. 150

3 sents w/ autocannons. 150

450

Heavy Support

Leman Russ with mandatory bolter, smoke, Improved Comms. 168

Leman Russ with mandatory bolter, smoke, Improved Comms. 168

Leman Russ with mandatory bolter, smoke. 148

484

TOTAL: 1994 points.

So, there are two basic ways to play this army: you can chimera rush: move 12, pop smoke, and on the following turn move 6 ,fire, unload guard, fire with them, and hope that 2 improved comms gets you drop vets and outflanking/dropping sents in a reasonable manner. Ideally, sents should target AV 10 stuff (like rear armor and such), vets target HQ’s and AV14. I toyed with going with plas pistol/3 plas for the vets for 8 S7 AP2 shots at bs 4 (holy gak!) but melta is a safer choice, since the army’s only other anti-tank is tied up in the leman russes.

The other method is of course, to sit back and pelt the enemy from 36’’ or more with sents and chims. Since squadrons can fire through each other, you could conceivably stack the sents in a line in between each chim to make this easier. Drop troops still do their thing, of course.

So, thoughts?

-Less Sentinels, 1 Hellhound at least. They soak fire and hordes fear them. Truthfully, I'd put one of those squads of Sentinels with heavy flamers, for the armies that need template love.

-Many people don't like using the Sentinels in squadrons, as the open topped nature of the walker combined with the rule that Immobilized vehicles in a squadron count as destroyed.

-Chimeras are quite pricy for what they let you do. For the 220 points you drop per scoring unit, you could have 3 squads of infantry and a JO squad.

bryantsbears wrote:1 Hellhound at least.

No. 2, 3 or none. Never 1.

Haivng 1 just singles it out.

BYE

I was going to offer a few criticisims of this list, but then I wound up performing a rebuild of the entire force because I have too much time on my hands today. As my rebuild is VERY different I posted it as another army list that links to here for it's inspiration. A link to this list can be found here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/223889.page#464924

Kungfuhustler wrote:As my rebuild is VERY different I posted it as another army list that links to here for it's inspiration.

And as such it is not a 'rebuild'. The point of the rebuild is to take someone's army and make it work, not take their army, throw it out a window, and give them a new one.

People don't learn for themselves then.

BYE

ALTERNATE BUILD:

Well, the basic problem with modding this list is that A: the goal is to have all infantry derping or in chimeras, B: almost all my force org slots are filled, and C: taking mechanized doctrine to allow you to mechanize HQ choices keeps the vets from deep striking, neutering the list.

I think if I really wanted to take this list from "semi-competitive/fun" to tourament worthy, I would certainly trim back on the sents, which are there mostly because I frankly like sentinels. A lot. That they could be held in reserves and compliment dropping melta vets was just icing on the cake. I wasn’t even aware of how vulnerable they are to enemy fire until someone pointed out their glaring weaknesses.

After much deliberation, I had two ideas for how to take the list. The fist method involved dropping some wargear and all the sents get more hellhounds, making for a scary-ass wall of machinery. And then... some deep striking guardsmen. Why? the answer is objectives, you gotta have em, and storm squads are likely to be too busy with combat to anything like “holding points.” Besides, I could then shove in a armored fist squad if I somehow turned out to have enough points. (note. I didn't. you could try taking out most of the fast attack to add another chimera if you really want to, although i fail to see why.)

The second method is basically doing what the other guy did, replacing a melta vet squad with a melta-special-weapon squad or two… mainly so I could then justifiably field the deadly triple-plasma vet squad.

Note that at games of 1500 or less, all this debate is irrelevant, since, the chims, the lemans, and the vets damn near fill up 1500 by themselves, which is a force to be reckoned with in games of that size.

That said, If I was to ever go about building a TT IG army, it would probably look like the 1st version I posted (the opening post’s), since I built it to be fun, mostly by asking the question “wait, I can field HOW MANY of these things?.” I dislike the 1st alternate mostly because, well, I have to use those ugly regular mooks. And the second list dips way too far into dedicated deep striking IG lists to be really interesting anymore, although I’m sure it would probably net me some wins.

Finally, the last idea I’ve kicked around is actually taking mechanized, dropping the vets, and replacing them with, what else, more stormtroopers in pillboxes er chimeras. Would it work? Probably not as well, but feth me, it seems like it would be helluva fun to play.

1st version

Doctrines
Grenaders
Vets
Drop Troops

HQ
Junior w/ 4 plasguns. 80 (suicide unit)
80

Troops

10 Stormtoopers w/ 2 plas:120
Chimera w/ M.Las/H.bolter/Pintle Stub/Smoke. 100

10 Stormtoopers w/ 2 plas:120
Chimera as above:100

10 Stormtoopers w/ 2 plas:120
Chimera as above:100
660

Deep Strike Platoon

Junior w/ 2 plasguns. 60

Squad w/ plasma. 70

Squad w/ plasma. 70

200

5 vets w/3 meltas: 75

5 vets w/3 meltas: 75

5 vets w/3 meltas: 75

225

Fast Attack

Hellhound w/ smoke: 118

Hellhound w/ smoke: 118

Hellhound w/ smoke: 118

354

Heavy Support

Leman Russ with mandatory bolter, smoke, Improved Comms. 168

Leman Russ with mandatory bolter, smoke, Improved Comms. 168

Leman Russ with mandatory bolter, smoke. 148

484

TOTAL: 2003 points.

2nd version

Doctrines
Grenaders
Vets
Drop Troops
Special Weapon squads

HQ
Junior w/ 4 plasguns. 80 (suicide unit)
80

Special Weapon Support Squad -75 points
2 melta guns and demo charge

Special Weapon Support Squad -75 points
2 melta guns and demo charge

1 sentinal w/ autocannon. 50

280

Troops

10 Stormtoopers w/ 2 plas:120
Chimera w/ M.Las/H.bolter/Pintle Stub/Smoke. 100

10 Stormtoopers w/ 2 plas:120
Chimera as above:100

10 Stormtoopers w/ 2 plas:120
Chimera as above:100
660

5 vets w/3 plasma: 75

5 vets w/3 plasma: 75

5 vets w/3 meltas: 75

225

Fast Attack

Hellhound w/ smoke: 118

Hellhound w/ smoke: 118

Hellhound w/ smoke: 118

354

Heavy Support

Leman Russ with mandatory bolter, smoke, Improved Comms. 168

Leman Russ with mandatory bolter, smoke, Improved Comms. 168

Leman Russ with mandatory bolter, smoke. 148

484

TOTAL: 2003 points.