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I've read the Apoc. rules for a Zombie horde and I'm not entirely satisfied with them, so I'm thinking of making my own for a zombie-apocalypse scenario with friends (essentially endless horde of zombies against a squads of troops). I'm having trouble with a few concepts and I'm wondering if you people have any ideas to offer?

1) Zombies only die by head shots.
I don't think this is addressed enough by the no armour save and FNP save they receive. I've thought about auto-killing a zombie on a roll of 6 to hit or wound (head shot), but leaving it just like that would be a serious imbalance. Something I've thought about was that rule combined with FNP and some sort of WBB? What about assault?

2) Leadership.
I don't think that zombies should be affected by morale, leadership, psychic powers forcing morale or leadership or pinning tests and will never fall back from combat or from shooting...which leads me to my next issue.

3) Squads?
With no leadership/morale/pinning tests required, should the zombies just be in loose formation? Meaning squads shooting at a giant mob of zombies would just take models off as desired.

4) Anti-tank?
Should zombies be able to disable vehicles? If so, that would mean their base strength would be 4, which I don't agree with seeing as they're shambly undead with rotting limbs.

5) Brainsssss
Should zombies automatically move towards the closest squad? Should they be easily distracted by a squad that just shoots at them?

Here's what I've got so far:

WS: 3
BS: -
S: 3
T: 2
A: 1
I: 2
W: 1
Ld: 10
Sv: *

Weapons: Limbs and teeth, count as two CC weapons

Special rules
Headshot: ?

Shambly: Zombies are Slow and Purposeful

Join us!: At the end of every assault phase, roll a D6 for every model killed by a zombie, on a 6 they are resurrected as a zombie model.

No fear: Zombies will never take morale/leadership/pinning tests, and will never fall back.

Lose the FNP and save then add this:

Headshot: The living dead can only be "killed" with a shot to the head. Anything else and the zombie will just shrug it off and keep shambling toward its prey.

Zombies can only be hit on a wound roll of 6+ to rep how hard a headshot is. Any weapon over STR 6 gets +1 to this number.

Example:
Str 6 needs 5+ to wound
Str 7 needs 4+ to wound
Str 8 needs 3+ to wound
Str 9 needs 2+ to wound
Str 10 if it hits is auto kill.

I really like what you have so far, the "head shot" rule could simply be resolved by rolling to determine if the hit was a head shot ie: 3+ = head shot anything less mearly hits with zero effect.
I'd love to see some rules that perhaps incorperate a "fast" zombie rule,something to the effect of " any zombie unit within line of sight and within x distance may roll a "hungry ones charge" " in wich the unit may charge x2 their normal assault distance or something of that nature.
I'd love to see more of your ideas,keep 'em coming.

jp400 wrote:Lose the FNP and save then add this:

Headshot: The living dead can only be "killed" with a shot to the head. Anything else and the zombie will just shrug it off and keep shambling toward its prey.

Zombies can only be hit on a wound roll of 6+ to rep how hard a headshot is. Any weapon over STR 6 gets +1 to this number.

Example:
Str 6 needs 5+ to wound
Str 7 needs 4+ to wound
Str 8 needs 3+ to wound
Str 9 needs 2+ to wound
Str 10 if it hits is auto kill.

This would work nicely

Thanks.
I would love to have a ruleset useing the 40k template, but for modern day zombiepocalypse.

I would see fast zombies working something like this...

All Zombies use the S&P ruleset for movement until they are withing 24 inches of the enemy. They then move like normal and may run in the shooting phase.

I feel that this would rep the zombies shamblin around until they "See" prey then running toward them.

I've knocked about a few skirmish type ideas ( like a zombie Mordhiem) with some friends,basicly utilizing IG (10 man sqaud) and 40 or so Zombies,although ATM nothing is "etched in stone".
But,yes larger scale rules would rock...God I watch WAaaaaay to much Romero.

jp400 wrote:Thanks.
I would love to have a ruleset useing the 40k template, but for modern day zombiepocalypse.

I would see fast zombies working something like this...

All Zombies use the S&P ruleset for movement until they are withing 24 inches of the enemy. They then move like normal and may run in the shooting phase.

I feel that this would rep the zombies shamblin around until they "See" prey then running toward them.

Exactly!!,representing that for the most part zombies are basicly mindless,but when they see "food" they"step quickly to the buffet"

Though I don't think that Zombies should be able to tear apart a Tank, and they are rotting corpses, you have to keep in mind that nearly every Zombie in pretty much any movie you'll see has quite a bit of strength, enough to rip limbs off of a human (disemboweling is something that no normal human could pull off). So I vote to give the zombies S4.

Give them more toughness. Zombies are ridiculously tough. I could see a Zombie shrugging off more direct hits than a Space Marine.

Unit coherency should not matter for a Zombie. Do you think they care about the corpse standing next to them? Give them an open formation. Also, they should have a MoK-esque rule, as you've already suggested, forcing them to move towards the nearest target (I don't think they're too concerned with gunfire, they just want food).

I think that the Zombies should have WBB on a 3+ unless they are hit on a 6+, to represent the 'Headshot' rule. Since there's still a chance that a Zombie will die through enough conventional punishment, though it's a very low one, I think this could represent that well. Instant death should, of course, override WBB. It does make them pretty friggin powerful, though, so the points of the zombies will always outweigh the number of IG you are able to field against them. So, keep the shamblers, and I propose for friendly games:

Last Man Standing: Have at least a 2-on-1 (against the zombie horde) with a set number of points for each human player. No tanks, of course. A solid wave of zombies coming in through your table edge every turn. The last man standing wins.

Chrysaor686 wrote:I think that the Zombies should have WBB on a 3+ unless they are hit on a 6+, to represent the 'Headshot' rule. Since there's still a chance that a Zombie will die through enough conventional punishment, though it's a very low one, I think this could represent that well. Instant death should, of course, override WBB. It does make them pretty friggin powerful, though, so the points of the zombies will always outweigh the number of IG you are able to field against them.

I like the idea of them having a 3+ FNP save, subject to the normal rules for FNP as usual. I think the 1 point increase from 4+ represents them ignoring wounds except those that cause a "headshot." If they fail their 3+ FNP save, then it is assumed they suffered a headshot, without the additional requirement of needing a roll of a 6 to ignore the FNP save. It keeps things simpler this way.

So what kind of zombies are we talking about? European or American?

If movies and games have taught me anything it is that american zombies (resident evil, dawn of the dead the original) are slow mindess lumbering i need to eat brainnnnnsss.

European zombies (28 days later, 28 weeks later, resident evil 4) are extermely fast and powerful.

Now there are a few things (left 4 dead and the remake of dawn of the dead) that go against my theroys on the difference between slow stupid zombies (americans) and fast strong semi smart zombes (europeans) wait a minute arent a good percentge of americans overweight?

So id go with the rules as you have them so far for american zombies but for a twist give them fleet and furious charge and bump their strength to 4 and ws 3 maybe even 4.

Personally I'd go with this statline for slow old school (american?, nope just old fashioned) Zombies:

WS: 1
BS: -
S: 4
T: 3 (4)
A: 2
I: 1
W: 1
Ld: -
Sv: 5+ Invulnerable

Special Rules:
Fearless
Feel No Pain
Slow and Purposeful
Vulnerable to Blasts
Rage (if I'm recalling this USR correctly with no book: Must move towards nearest enemy is what I am thinking)

Logic is the feel no pain plus invulnerable and enhanced toughness makes them hard to put down (and simluates the lucky headshots with out new rules) but that they're more likly to get hit in the head by fragmentation and other blast effects, without actually being any harder to blow to smithereens then a human body is generally.

For the fast zombies, I would simply remove S&P as thats reallly the only difference unless you want to make them the oddly rabid humans from 28 ! Later.

Jack

Who says zombies ONLY die from headshots? If they get shot with a bolter, which has .75 caliber explosive rounds, it will be blown into hundreds of tiny chunks. Even in modern-day zombie movies and games, such as Resident Evil, zombies will die if you unload a shotgun or SMG into their body.

A) You're talking about something that doesn't actually exist, there can't be any hard and fast rules.

B) In the fluff bolters just cause the body to blow out, not into tiny pieces.

C) Resident Evil is a horrible bastardization of zombie lore, and in general also describes zombies as only dying via head trauma, but is a video game and a series of horrible movies, so they can deviate from their own facts for reasons of plot and gameplay.

So if these guys want to say "Death only by headshot" I say let them. However, death on 6's to hit doesn't quite do it for me, since Orks, Guard, and Space Marines would all have equal chance of a head shot, even though Orks only hit on 5 and 6 anyhow, half their normal hits would cause death.

My suggestion would be a 2+ Invul. and T3, Instant Death negating their Invul. (being blown into little pieces, even if not destroying their brain, is just as affective) and Fearless. They also may not use cover saves, as they're not bright enough to do that. Work them in hordes with a few leader characters would give them coherency so they could be directed, if they are not present and attached the horde will wander D6 with a scatter unless they are within 4D6 and sight of an enemy unit, in which case they will more as regular towards the nearest unit.

Hmm, maybe Sniper Weapons should get some sort of bonus towards head shots, and what about template weapons?

To me, I think a lot of these proposed ideas - while very funky - certainly overcomplicate things.

I always see zombies as adhereing to the rules set down in the Zombie Survival Guide by Max Brooks (if you haven't read this already, I heartily recommend it): i.e., slow, stupid, not massively strong, and only killed by a headshot. Thing is, for 40k purposes, a successful wound doesn't necessarily mean death: If a hit snaps a Zombie's neck or takes its limbs off, it's out of the fight even if it's still 'alive'.

For my money, they need to be:

WS 2 BS 0 S3 T4 W1 I1 A1 Ld10 Sv ~

With Feel No Pain, Fearless and Slow and Purposeful. Keep it simple, keep the points low, keep the Horde huge. They're meant to be a big ol' tarpit. A war of attrition works for Zombies, in the long run.

With Feel No Pain and Slow and Purposeful I think you are over complicating things. Just treat them as regular with a 2+ save, maybe even invul. that is lost when Instant Death might apply, and T4. Make them S4 (zombies aren't limited by pain), keep the WS low, 2 seems fine to me. The 2+ save represents that getting shot anywhere else but the head doesn't affect them, it doesn't matter what weapon you used, and weapons with AP2 or lower are the type that will probably destroy their entire body, if it doesn't fry the brain, anyhow, invul it if anyone thinks that it would matter, except for instant death because those weapons definitely would destroy the body.

Template weapons, like flame throwers, would probably have a greater affect on Zombies, but then you would have to take into consideration that you would have flaming Zombies walking up on you, those that aren't killed instantly, which would make fighting them in hand to hand really hard and unfortunate. For simplicity's sake, just leave it be, I suppose.

Vandez wrote:To me, I think a lot of these proposed ideas - while very funky - certainly overcomplicate things.

I always see zombies as adhereing to the rules set down in the Zombie Survival Guide by Max Brooks (if you haven't read this already, I heartily recommend it): i.e., slow, stupid, not massively strong, and only killed by a headshot. Thing is, for 40k purposes, a successful wound doesn't necessarily mean death: If a hit snaps a Zombie's neck or takes its limbs off, it's out of the fight even if it's still 'alive'.

For my money, they need to be:

WS 2 BS 0 S3 T4 W1 I1 A1 Ld10 Sv ~

With Feel No Pain, Fearless and Slow and Purposeful. Keep it simple, keep the points low, keep the Horde huge. They're meant to be a big ol' tarpit. A war of attrition works for Zombies, in the long run.

I do agree that sticking to the Brooks/Romero zombie "template" is the best way to attempt representing zombies in game play,and the stats you have above do that well.
The one thing I would add is that as the Brooks/Romero zombies get closer to "food" they "shamble" faster (not sprinting ala 28 days/weeks later or the remake of Dawn of the Dead,but they do step a little "livelier"(sorry),so,perhaps to represent this the "run" opption should also be added when the zombie unit is within 24" of an opposing unit....just a thought.

Vandez wrote:I always see zombies as adhereing to the rules set down in the Zombie Survival Guide by Max Brooks (if you haven't read this already, I heartily recommend it)

If you liked this, I hope you have read World War Z.

Also, interesting trivia - did you know Max Brooks is Mel Brooks' son?

Fifty wrote:

Vandez wrote:I always see zombies as adhereing to the rules set down in the Zombie Survival Guide by Max Brooks (if you haven't read this already, I heartily recommend it)

If you liked this, I hope you have read World War Z.

Also, interesting trivia - did you know Max Brooks is Me Brooks' son?

Mel Brooks? as In "Young Frankinstien,Blazzing Saddles,etc" Mel Brooks?

Yep.

No way!

And yes, I've read it. Love it. Hope they don't mangle the film.

I did not know that,and, while I am a fan of Mel Brooks movies( and his sons zombie books) I certianly hope that the senior Mr. Brooks isn't being considered for any directorial duties in the rumored World War Z movie,the thought of the zombie horde breaking into "putting on the ritz" as they approach Yonkers may be more than I could stand.

It'll be hard to mangle a book that already is mangled. It's poorly written, poorly plotted, filled with holes, and generally is filled with stereotypes of everyone, racial, political, and social.

I got about two thirds through that book before I had to put it down... The Zombie Survival Guide was more entertaining to read because it didn't have to be particularly well written, as it is written like an instructional or training manual. It still has the regular mistakes, bad directions and suggestions, but isn't nearly as bad as WWZ.

To each their own, I suppose.

That's one heck of a cop out...

Skinnattittar wrote:It'll be hard to mangle a book that already is mangled. It's poorly written, poorly plotted, filled with holes, and generally is filled with stereotypes of everyone, racial, political, and social.

I got about two thirds through that book before I had to put it down... The Zombie Survival Guide was more entertaining to read because it didn't have to be particularly well written, as it is written like an instructional or training manual. It still has the regular mistakes, bad directions and suggestions, but isn't nearly as bad as WWZ.

Ok,I have to disagree, while not "the great American novel" I found World War Z to be an entertaining read,that should translate to an entertaining film.
But..."To each his own."

Well, I suppose with racists and bigots who think that sort of "thing" is a-okay, then things haven't come as far as I thought this country had....

From what I got from the book it was a series of enterviews representing various peoples points of view during a zombie apocolypse as well as thier reactions to the situation (perhaps some racist..I'll have to do a re-read).
On a more personal note,as my girlfriend is African American and Latino,and our two children are of "mixed" decent...I don't belive I qaulify as a racist.

Skinnattittar wrote:Well, I suppose with racists and bigots who think that sort of "thing" is a-okay, then things haven't come as far as I thought this country had....

Don't be stupid.

Gasp, you painted the model in your avatar white! I guess that you're a racist too?

But on a serious note, the zombies need to have 'We'll be back!" Somewhere.

Why not

WS 1
BS -
S 3
T 3(4)
W 1
I 1
A 1
Ld 10
Sv 6+

Unit Comp: 30-60
Wargear: Teeth, limbs, etc (counts as 2 close combat weapons)

Special Rules:
Fearless
Feels No Pain
Vulnerable To Blasts
We'll Be Back!
Slow and Purposeful
Brains! (On the beginning of each turn, roll the scatter die, this determines where the zombies move. A hit signifies that the zombies may move where the controller wants them to go. Once Zombies have been shot at, they must move towards the enemy and ignore the scatter die. When within 24" of the nearest enemy they lose Slow and Purposeful. )
Infection (When a model is killed by the zombies, place it on its side. At the beginning of each turn, roll a d6. On a 1, the model is not infected and dies; remove it from the board. On a 6, the model stands back up and uses the zombie profile.)


Some of that doesn't really make sense, sorry...

Headshots I'm ok with, though I'd also say flame weapons, meltas, plasma, templates, incendiary missiles, etc., should be very effective.