Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

This is my first pass at a competitive Tau army and I am looking for constructive feedback.
I have tried to retain a good mix of anti-tank and anti-infantry firepower although I am aware of the limitations of the list against 'nid and ork hordes.

Basic tactics are to use the warriors and pathfinders to set up a firebase. The kroot will stay with them to serve as a counterassault unit, whilst enemy vehicles that get too close will be charged by the EMP-grenade armed warrior squad. If required they will board the 'fish for late game objective grabbing.
The large crisis team will deepstike in, making use of the re-roll from the pathfinders 'fish and will ideally aim to land between a tank and an infantry squad where it can split its fire against both targets. Any survivors will then JSJ around the enemy backfield.
The Hammerheads, Commander and 'monat' crisis team will stay on the move hunting down large targets. The 'heads can engage at range while firing their SMS's at approaching infantry while the XV8's will stay behind the 'heads JSJing at anything that gets too close.


HQ

Shas'O - 162pts
Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Shield Generator, H-W Multitracker, H-W Drone Controller, 2x Shield Drones

Elites

Crisis Team - 162pts
Team Leader - Burst Cannon, Flamer, Multitracker, Bonding Knife, H-W Drone Controller, 2x Gun Drones
A - Burst Cannon, Flamer, Multitracker
B - T-L Fusion Blaster, Target Lock

Crisis Team - 69pts
Team Leader - Fusion Blaster, Missile Pod, Targetting Array, H-W Multitracker

Troops

Fire Warriors - 103pts
8x Warriors - Photon Grenades, Shas'ui has Bonding Knife

Fire Warriors - 103pts
8x Warriors - Photon Grenades, Shas'ui has Bonding Knife

Fire Warriors - 139pts
8x Warriors - EMP Grenades, Shas'ui has Bonding Knife, H-W Drone Controller, 2x Gun Drones
Devilfish - 95pts
Disruption Pod, Sensor Spines

Kroot - 129pts
Shaper - Kroot Rifle
11x Kroot
4x Hounds

Fast Attack

Pathfinders - 72pts
6x Pathfinders
Devilfish - 105pts
Disruption Pod, 2x Seeker Missiles

Heavy Support

Hammerhead - 180pts
Railgun, SMS, Disruption Pod, Target Lock, Multitracker

Hammerhead - 180pts
Railgun, SMS, Disruption Pod, Target Lock, Multitracker



Gentlemen, start your flamethrowers and help me make this better!!
(I do have another 1150ish points of stuff I can swap in including Piranhas, Broadsides, an Ionhead, Vespid and more Kroot if you think any of this can help)

Looks pretty solid!

Id get 9man teams of firewarriors.. due to moral check & causaltie reasons (i.e you can take 2 casulties from 9 w/o taking a LD check).

You can get the points for those three extra FW models from the EMP grenades.. (nearly) 8 models charging will get about 1-2 hits against most vehicles (usually hitting on 6's) which have a 50% of doing anything - So really not worth it. Leave the Anti-tank to ur crisis & hammerheads.

Also get pulse carbines with the devilfish FW squad so they can disembark & unleash a good amount of fire thats pinning too that wont put you in charge range.

Drop two kroot & 2 hounds so you can fit them into the pathfinder devilfish.. I know it may sound crazy but that kind kroot squad is pretty good in CC but suck at getting shot at (and prolonged combats).

The photon grenades for the normal FW squads... will they survive any better denying an assaulting unit the +1 charge A.. or will they still loose combat & most likely break with WS2 & I2, S & T 3... they'll still die, instead save the points or invest in another model.

Is the 1st crisis suit a deepstriking multi-tasking unit? If so.. looks like a good idea. You could spend an extra 17pts (youve got points from the kroot) to upgrade the team leader to a shas'vre & upgrade his burstcannon to a Airburst fragmentation launcher. This is scarily powerful against things like scouts, guardains, pathfinders, imperial guard, orks etc & will improve your troop killing potential a good amount. It will also have good psychological effect and make the opponent thing twice before deploying troops.

The second suit.. upgrade its fusion to a plasma rifle to mirror & team up with the Shas'O & allow you to keep them at range effectively.

Id say iridium armor > shield genorater.. especially when your getting 2xshield drones.. as im pretty sure both drones will mirror your armor save. Aswell as your Shas'O T.

Finally if your strapped for points to impliment the above changes.. drop ur shas'o to a shas'el & get a targetting array in the now-free battlesuit support system slot (because youve hopefully change the shield-gen to irridium armor.)

Lastly.. you could drop a seeker missile to add in a second lot of sensor spines - being able to unload your FW's in cover is valuble, as it being able to B-line it towards any nessicary threats with the kroot. It will also help with blocking TLOS against your vehicles.

Before any of the above.. this list looks really solid. A nice amount of troops. A good implimentation of suits & some nice mechenised elements.

Thanks for the tips!!

Dropping all the grenades would save me 40 pts so I'll look at some of the suit changes.

Yes, the first crisis team was designed to deepstrike and multitask.
The theory was basically to drop the squad between a vehicle and an infantry squad. The XV8 with the T-L Fusion Blasters would take out the vehicle, while the flamers and burst cannon on the other two, and the gun drones, would shoot at nearby infantry.
Is the airbursting frag launcher worth it? I always thought that special issue gear was slightly overcosted for what it did but I'll have another look.

thanks again,
C_C

I have to voice dissent here with Razerous on the solidity of the list, and also with you about your weakness to Nid and Ork hordes.

Your list has two hammerheads: The sub-munition round is two templates that are Strength 6 AP4, and can lay waste to massed troops. The 6+ armour saves on Orks (or even the 4+ armour saves on 'Ard Boyz) aren't going to save them from the wrath of a Hammerhead. With that said...

Honestly, I would drop the photon torpedos. They are wasted points - if you get assaulted by anyone, up to and including Imperial Guard you're going to lose. We're Tau - we suck at close combat. Tau have the best infantry weapon in all of Warhammer 40k - the pulse rifle. Strength 5, AP 5, 30" range with a 12" rapid fire. Our single strength is in our ranged firepower, and a successful Tau will exploit that the best that they can. Also keep in mind that Tau leadership sucks. Badly. Do what you can to avoid leadership tests. With that in mind....here's my suggestions:

1. I believe the most effective troop choice is 12 Firewarriors (pulse rifles) + 2 Gun Drones. A 14 man squad can absorb a few casualties before having to take a morale check and can pour out a lot of firepower. Your two gun drones per squad can potentially cause pinning tests, but don't rely on it - they're really there to absorb a couple casualties and keep your firewarriors alive and firing.

2. Pulse Rifle vs. Pulse Carbine: Most of 40k has Leadership 9, 10, or is Fearless. Except for Tau, with base leaderships of 7-8. I don't think carbines are worth taking, ever. A full squad of 12 Firewarriors with pulse carbines can only cause 1 pinning test, which your opponent will statistically be more likely than not to pass. At the same time, to take pulse carbines, you will have given up 12" of range, and potentially an extra shot per warrior (Rapid Fire). There's nothing to be gained from them; you can cause pinning from a lot of other places.

3. Kroot: I hate 'em. Personal preference here.

4. Suits: I feel like your list is kind of wasting your suits. With your firewarriors, Kroot and possible sub-munition rounds from your Hammerheads, you have ALL SORTS of Strength 4-6 AP4-5 weaponry to bring to bear. Most armies in 40k have better saves than we Tau do. Space marines, chaos, necrons all have 3+ armour saves. Terminators have 2+ saves. 12 Firewarriors are going to land 6 hits on a space marine squad, get 3-4 wounds, and kill one space marine. Maybe two. That's just how it works. Don't bother with burst cannons on suits - give them something the rest of your army doesn't have! Plasma, Fusion, Flamers.

5. You know what a GREAT deep-striking unit is? A single suit (42 points) with a Fusion blaster and a flamer. Deep strike him (with a reroll) close to a tank, on the opposite side of troops if you can. Then shoot at the tank. You'll get to flamer the troops for giggles (since you're shooting the tank) and melta the tank for 2D6 penetration. Its cheap and fairly effective anti-tank, especially when you have rerolls on your deep strike.

6. There are a few "standard" suit builds with nicknames: A crisis "Fireknife" is combo Plasma/Missile/Multi-tracker. "Deathrain" is twin-linked missile pods. Etc. They're called that because they're very effective builds. You might want to look into / explore some of them; but I can't emphasize enough that you need to add some AP1, AP2, AP3 to your army.

7. Snipers: If you have them, add 1-3 squads to your heavy support. If you don't, you can glue a pulse rifle to a gun drone (without its carbines on it), stick a pathfinder in front of them and call it a sniper team. Sniper drones are Strength 6 AP3, and you get a free markerlight hit with each squad (3 squads per troops choice). If you want to experiment with pinning, do it with these. Snipe down some MEQs with a 3+ save and force them to take tests.

8. More pinning: Alternatively, you can take 3 rail-rifles with target locks per pathfinder squad. Each of those Rail Rifles can fire independently at different targets. With 3 sniper teams and 3 Rail Rifles in a pathfinder team, you can potentially cause 6 units to take pinning tests (or one unit to take 4 pinning tests and two others to take one each) - or combine it however you like (and don't forget pinning tests caused by gun drones). But please...don't torture firewarriors by making them take carbines!

9. Anti-tank: I favor Broadside battlesuits over Hammerheads for this. You know how frustrating it is to get ONE SHOT from a hammerhead at a tank, and if you miss...that's it. A whopping 150+ points just did nothing. Broadsides are twin-linked, and you can have a team of 3; meaning potentially 3 twin-linked Railgun shots at a tank. They have a 2+ armour save, go great with shield drones for a couple of 4+ invulnerable saves...they're a beast for anti-tank.

10: Your commander: The Fragmentation Airbursting Launcher is perhaps one of the best weapons in the Tau arsenal. A SUIT firing an ordanance template that ignores cover. Have you ever had the joy of having a SINGLE SUIT wipe out 15 Orks with ONE SHOT? For an all-purpose competitive list, I really feel that its a must have. Speaking of special wargear, here's a nifty note: Iridium armour confers a 2+ armour save on the suit that has it, and shield drones take on the properties of the suit that they're attached to.

If you were to have say...Shas'o, Iridium armour, Stimpack, HW Drone controller, 2 shield drones...you have a 2+ armour save, 4+ Feel no pain, two shield drones that each have a 2+ armour save and a 4+ invulnerable save - he makes a GREAT bait trap, and is hard to kill. Stick him out front and use him to draw fire!



--------------------------------------------------------------------
With all that said, here's what I would change in your list

1. More Firewarriors. Squads of 12, and bring 3-4 of them

2. Pathfinders: Bring 8 of them, and make 3 of them have Railrifles/Target Lock at +10 points apiece. They're scouts: Before the game starts, run your devilfish somewhere and dump the pathfinders out (scout move). Then, take that devilfish (with disruption pods - lose the seeker missiles - they're wasted points) back to your line, and pick up a squad of 12 Firewarriors so you can move around and react to the battle.

3. Suits: Put in Plasma. Contemplate Fusion/Plasma/Multi-tracker. If not, go with a Fireknife configuration, or something that at least grants you a lot of hits or will pass through armour. You NEED some anti-terminator stuff in your army.

4. Bring snipers if you have them as a heavy support, and sub out a hammerhead for a Broadside suit or two. Honestly, a single broadside suit is better anti-tank than a hammerhead; at least that Railgun shot is twin-linked...but for a generalized list, keeping a single hammerhead is good for the crowd control option of the sub-munition round.

5. If you're going to use Kroot, think about outflanking them and try to make sure that there is forest on the table. Kroot get a 3+ cover save in forest or jungle, and if you can make them absorb a lot of fire, you can have them go to ground and get a 2+ cover save for a turn. Its worth it to have them pinned for a turn if it draws fire from your main army.

Anyway, that's my two cents.

Heh...and remove my reference to photon torpedos. I meant to say photon grenades!

You can edit your posts, Dashofpepper. Should be a button for it on the upper-right corner.

I don't like Sniper Drones, and do like Kroot, but other than that I agree with Dashofpepper's assessment. It's good advice.

Ive gotta voice a little dissent with what Dash has said;

1.The 14man squads are good but Id say thier good for bigger games.. for 1500, 9 is a reasonable number. If youve got 14man squad (inc drones) then you just wont have that many & a unfocoused prism shot will put worlds on hurt onto that big-ass squad. Eggs, too few baskets etc. Gun drones are cool. Worth 20pts & whats the chance of getting enough wounds on a FW sqaud to put a wound on the HW drone controlling team leader & loosing him & the drones? Food for thought. Its good & bad.

2. Pulse carbines do the loverly thing of a: being able to actually cause the glorious one pinning wound (compared to the very occasional gun drone or the infrequent rail rifle shot. As tau you have marker lights. & As tau you can reduce peoples LD scores in relation to pinning hits. Thusly you can auto (basically) pin people with sufficient ML hits. 6 is a bit low but its still doable. and secondly B: They do the awesome thing for devilfish transported FW's where when they disembark to shoot, they arent in charge range. This makes A worthwhile.

3. Kroot.. is a choice thing again - these guys points could go along way to really beefing up your FW squad but then if you really do want a fairly competative (yet horribly frail) CC unit - go for these guys. If not, dont.

4. Your suits have a good idea going. That stimpack idea is gold.. definetely get it for your HQ. Keep him as a fireknife setup & keep him with that second lone Fireknife dudey. With all those points invested you want to keep him @ 24" or more. Plus only being able to JSJ D6" is more reason to keep him at range..
Therefore give the Airburst frag launcher to the multi-task team... & perhaps swap out some burstcannons for a fusion gun. You loose out on 2 hits but one will definetly wound & kill somthing if it hits. Also adds a bit more anti-tank if needed.
Perhaps have 2 squads with flamers & fusions (or TL fusion) with the last guy getting the targetlock with the flamer & airburst so he can turn around on his own to taget troops?

5. Yup, if you wanna. Go for it (instead.. I assume.. than your current suit list)

6. He says good things. Ap1-2 can be substituted with alotta str 5 fire power. Or partially offset.

7. Snipers.. Ahh.. get them instead of the pathfinders if anything. Useful. Keep them AWAY from anything (to avoid scattering death) and keep them right at the back/egdes of your lines. One unsaved would & they could be running. Two & thier broken - thats thier weakness.. if only you could take two more gundrones with em!

8. Fish-warriors not getting charged & firing or just not getting charged & not firing.. Pinning does come with rail-rifles.. again if you took off the kroot you could add in another 2 pathfinders & get those 3 target locked rail rifles.

9. Broadsides vs hammerheads is a choice thing. Thier both good for different reason, arguably broadsides are soley better at AT. Youve set up your hammerheads well although the SMS while good.. is a 20pt chunk vs two burstcannons @ 10pts
For a stright swap in points (175pts If I can add properly) you can get a 2man broadside team with two shield drones. Does the job. Spend 5 more points to get a target lock so you can split those two TL BS3 railgun shots at two different targets.. worth it.

10. Stimpack.. I didnt realise. Gold advice. Get it. Dont give him the 18" range airburst jobbie.. give it to the other squads teamleader. See 4 :p

Thanks again for all the advice, guys. From what's been said the basic set-up seems fine, the hammerheads and pathfinders are keepers, its just a matter of saving some points on the troops so as to change the loadouts on the suits.

A lot of what's said about suits (from all Tau players) seems to boil down to personal preference for specific loadouts, so I'll do some testing with the various options that you've suggested and find out what works best for me.

Many thanks - and look out for the P&M blog when I start painting this - I need feedback there too!!

C_C

You state competitive, and you are from the UK, so I’m going to base my comments at a UKGT level as that’s what I know best. I’ve recently been considering tau from a competitive standpoint as well to try and 5thed-ise my 4thed tournament army (crisis suit and hammerhead spam doesn’t work anymore).

My personal thought process:
1. FWs are still cr@p. In 4th you saw one mandatory squad of 6 for a reason, and the factors have gotten worse- they don’t kill much (cover saves and run), die at range and in cc (and are now much more of a target due to scoring) and run at the first sign of trouble (Ld8 at most). Kroot suffer from similar issues. You no longer need squads to limit whole army infiltration/first turn charge, but assault screens are still very handy to buy an extra turn of shooting so small units of kroot are very useful.

How to keep troops alive? Nails hard transports. Devilfish give you at least an extra turn to resist an assault on your fragile troops, stop small arms fire dead, increase mobility and allow you to tank shock/resist tank shock on objectives. Transports are good in 5th, nails hard transports are double good and nails hard with a crapton of guns are triple good. My troops choices have become:

2x6 FW
2 x Devilfish w. SMS, decoy, disruption, targeting array, fire as fast (125 each)
2 x 10 Kroot

2. You can pretty much shoot what you want with TLoS, but it’s generally going to get a cover save. The additional requirement for troops has seriously cut down the number of guns available to the tau. These two factors combined make markerlights seem like a great option. Bearing in mind that I have already decided to transport my squishy troops, pathfinders become a bargain, so in go two squads of 8 with a ui (they are definitely going to get shot at). FWs use their fish and PFs sit on the board edge using the 36” range to stay alive.

3. Tanks are much harder to kill, and av14 is now fairly common in competitive play. Three hammerheads and a ton of missile pods used to be more than enough anti tank when all we had to do was glance taudar skimmers into oblivion. These days things are tougher and landraiders carrying terminators have to die right now. Enter the broadsides. I used to not like these guys due to lack of mobility and the requirement for three skimmer chasis to assault block. Now we can’t assault block and slow and purposeful is enough to see the majority of the board. Coupled with the inability to consolidate into a new combat (so the kroot can be an assault screen) and markerlights, broadsides are go for OddJob. I take a squad of three, with a gun drone and a shield drone. Every model in the squad is different for wound allocation purposes making them stupid survivable against shooting. Note that a kroot assault screen will also guarantee them a cover save.

4.Enemy problem units: assault terminators in a Landraider- fairly easy to kill the landraider and leave them walking. Nob bikers, and to a lesser extent attack biker spam- this is the reason I’ve included a skyray (don’t laugh, bear with me). I’ve already decided on 16 pathfinders, so in early turns markerlight hits are generally not a problem. What is a problem is a squad of nob bikers in the mush on turn two, or a horde of multi-melta attack bikers. Against both of these seeker missiles are an ideal weapon (along with the railguns). I still havn't thought of a decent counter to seer-bikers.

A lot of this thought process is debatable, but the one thing that I think isn’t is that FWs need the protection of a transport to survive the game.

Apologies that this dwells slightly on the transition from 4th ed, but a lot of the advice I see online seems to stem from the previous edition (not saying thats the case in this thread).

--EDIT--
Utilising this thought process on your army:

1. Why so much protective gear on the 'O? He can hide behind your HHs quite easily to live, or join units to transfer Ld.
2. The crisis squad is a one trick pony. You can recreate the same effect for less points and more reliably by using markerlights and submunitions. Deepstrike is a nice option to have, but it should be viewed as just that, an option rather than a requirement. In my opinion every suit should have a missile pod so that they can be useful on the deck. The other gun can be deep-strike centric if you want, but generally I use either a plasma rifle or another pod and flamer (Fireknife and deathrain respectively).
3. See above for my thoughts on the FWs. Photon grenades are a big no-no. The last thing you want to do is accidently die in two rounds of combat instead of one.
4. Once you have decided to take a devilfish I believe it makes sense to spend the points for it to have a direct effect on the game. 7 st5 shots is pretty sweet, especially if the alternative is gundrones that give away another kill point.
5. Pathfinders quickly become a real target. Full squad with a ui required according to OddJobs rule of markerlights = the win. I became so enamoured with them that I added another squad!
6. Heavy support is the most contentious spot for the tau. One thing is certain, you should never have a free slot. Oh, and sniperdrones do not belong in any debate about competative tau (although I used to think this about the skyray too).


OJ

Hmm, interesting. How about this version, then? Please bear in mind that this is based on stuff I currently own, so it may not work to be completely optimal.

HQ

Commander + Bodyguard - 314pts
Shas'O - Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Shield Generator, H-W Multitracker, H-W Drone Controller, 2x Shield Drones
Shas'vre - T-L Fusion Blaster, Target Lock, H-W Drone Controller, 2x Gun Drones
Shas'vre - Fusion Blaster, Missile Pod, Targetting Array, H-W Multitracker

Troops

Fire Warriors - 130pts
10x Warriors - Shas'ui has Bonding Knife, HW Drone Controller, 2x Gun Drones

Fire Warriors - 130pts
10x Warriors - Shas'ui has Bonding Knife, HW Drone Controller, 2x Gun Drones
Devilfish - 95pts
Disruption Pod, Sensor Spines

Kroot - 143pts
Shaper - Kroot Rifle
13x Kroot
4x Hounds

Fast Attack

Pathfinders - 72pts
6x Pathfinders
Devilfish - 105pts
Disruption Pod, 2x Seeker Missiles

Heavy Support

XV88 Team - 148Pts
A - T-L Railgun, SMS, Target Lock
A - T-L Railgun, SMS, Blacksun Filter

Hammerhead - 180pts
Railgun, SMS, Disruption Pod, Target Lock, Multitracker

Hammerhead - 180pts
Railgun, SMS, Disruption Pod, Target Lock, Multitracker

The Broadsides will sit back with the pathfinders, screened by the Kroot. The FW's will go with a standard fish o' fury attack to blast opponents off objectives and then move onto them later in the game. The HQ is now a lot tougher, with ablative armour in the shape of drones and lots of accurate low-AP fire.

This will free the 'heads to use their submunitions a lot more as the Broadsides can blast at enemy tanks. Thoughts??

As in....Sniper teams aren't competitive?

As in

Chimera_Calvin wrote
Please bear in mind that this is based on stuff I currently own

I do not own any snipers, hence they have not made it into either list 1 or list 2!!

I may consider getting some in the future, but as I'm getting married in a couple of months, I can't justify spending money on toy soldiers when I already Have soooo many

Any thoughts on the list?

Only one memeber of the broadside team can take bits from the wargear section via being made into a teamleader. Get some shield drones in there.. atleast one. Provides decent protection fromt deepstriking multi-meltas.

That HQ command squad looks horribly over priced & your mixing & matching too many different weapons. Its optimal range varys from 12-36" which isnt great.

Keep flamer/burst cannons/airburst/fusions (where is it?!) in one bunch & plasma/missile pods with another. Or just pick one group of weapons.

The goodness for retinues is for close-combat & not being able to pick out an IC seperatly from the rest of the crowd. As your HQ is quite expensive & rubbish in CC, dont bother with those overly expensive crisis suit bodyguard. I liked the original loadout much more. Dont get a shield-generator , shield drones are fine - get a stimulent injector instead.

Try & get two more pathfinders which are the cheapest way to field markerlights. (Drop one hammerhead SMS to make the points?)

Chimera_Calvin wrote:

Commander + Bodyguard - 314pts
Shas'O - Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Shield Generator, H-W Multitracker, H-W Drone Controller, 2x Shield Drones
Shas'vre - T-L Fusion Blaster, Target Lock, H-W Drone Controller, 2x Gun Drones
Shas'vre - Fusion Blaster, Missile Pod, Targetting Array, H-W Multitracker

This squad seems somewhat...confused. What exactly are you trying to achieve with these guys? They don't really fill a hole in your army list- you already have 4 railguns for heavy tank blamming. I had a similar decision to make and settled on trusty old fireknives- long range st7 and close in ap2 all in one package. Additionally, there isn't really any need to take a bodyguard unit. This could be a standard elite squad that the 'O joins, saving you 5-10 points per model. The only benefit of the retinue rules is in cc where you are either: a) against a squad with one or more fist equivalents in which case the squad is boned or b) in combat against mooks in which case the 4W 'O doesn't mind being singled out. Another question- why does the HQ need to be tough? An 'O by himself can easily hide behind one of your four skimmer chasis...

Chimera_Calvin wrote:

Troops

Fire Warriors - 130pts
10x Warriors - Shas'ui has Bonding Knife, HW Drone Controller, 2x Gun Drones

Fire Warriors - 130pts
10x Warriors - Shas'ui has Bonding Knife, HW Drone Controller, 2x Gun Drones
Devilfish - 95pts
Disruption Pod, Sensor Spines

Kroot - 143pts
Shaper - Kroot Rifle
13x Kroot
4x Hounds

Pretty hawt. With the fishies now blocking LoS you may find a FoF attack with that many models difficult to pull off while keeping the fish's sides/rear covered. I can just about fit 6 bods at a devilfish side hatch which makes things easier. One fairly minor detail- If you want to go with big squads i'd take 12FWs and drop the drones. In rapid fire range i'd rather have the extra shots over a negligable chance of pinning.

Chimera_Calvin wrote:
Heavy Support

XV88 Team - 148Pts
A - T-L Railgun, SMS, Target Lock
A - T-L Railgun, SMS, Blacksun Filter

Hammerhead - 180pts
Railgun, SMS, Disruption Pod, Target Lock, Multitracker

Hammerhead - 180pts
Railgun, SMS, Disruption Pod, Target Lock, Multitracker

Broadsides NEED drones. They are target no.1 for all lascannon equivalents cover save or not. I go with one gun drone and one shield drone just to mess with allocation. As far as I am concerned, they also NEED advanced stabilisation system. Moving and firing is too good to pass up. On hammerheads I tend to prefer the many shot burst cannons (maximum effect from a single markerlight hit), but I can definately see utility for the SMS. On another note, I still take decoy launchers on my transports as I want them to keep moving if at all possible.

Dashofpepper wrote:As in....Sniper teams aren't competitive?

Yup. It's not that sniper drones are really bad (I don't think you get much for your 80pts but thats another debate), it's that other heavy support options are much better. Railguns and hammerhead chasis (with disruption pods) are double awesome, and define the tau in competitive environments.

Sorry- I couldn't work out the multi quote button so two posts it is.

Agreeing with Oddjob on your suit confusion.

You have Broadsides and hammerheads, which makes Fusion blasters on the suits duplicitious unless you're making a terminator killing unit, in which case plasma/fusion/multi is a better combination.

I can't emphasize enough the value of a 15 point Fragmentation Airbursting Launcher. Its a 15 point ordinance blast template that ignores cover. When you come up against Tyranid swarms, Imperial Guard, Orks, other Tau, or Necron scarabs, its a fantastic way to seriously cause mayhem. If you want, you can give your Shas'o 3 weapon systems, just bear in mind that you can only use two of them per turn (then hardwire the drone controller and multi-tracker)

Also agree on not bothering with a retinue. You have a 6" move, you can shoot, and then a 6" assault move. The only things that will assault you do so because you want them to. Bodyguards cost 10 points more apiece than regular suits. Just make an elite team and have Shas'o join it. Fireknife is a good configuration; if you want suits that can sit on your back line, give them twin-linked missile pods. But a Fireknife team (2 missile shots, 1 plasma, rapid fire at 12" each) can cause all sorts of mayhem against power units. For a starter default, I'd try a team of them until you're comfortable with suit utilization.

Eventually, you'll start to discern "holes" in your army that you don't feel are filled very well, and that's when you'll start mixing and matching suits.

If I may Calvin... I'd like to wade in with a list and a recent game experience. Tau have problems getting across the table and blocking enemy held objectives. That's why it seems like they can win games, but not get massacres. Since you are british, you don't have to worry about massacres... well that was true last year at least.

A gaming buddy and accomplished player recently acquired a tau army and was working on trying to figure out how to control the objective games a little better. I threw a couple dead hard top tier tourney lists against him, and he did surprisingly well. His pic for blocking was firewarrior/devilfish with gundrones.

Step one for tau. Get 3-5 railguns.

Step 2 for tau, outfit that commander that you have to take somehow.

Step 3. Figure out what you are going to block with and what you are going to score with.

5th edition assault has escalated way beyond anything that kroot can handle. They have bad leadership... I would suggest putting them back in the warsphere for the time being.

pathfinders and markerlights are great, markerlights are definitely a big deal, but I don't think they are appropriately costed. And the markerlight counters aren't synergistic enough for any unit that isn't farsight's bodyguard.

The list he ran against me was...

commander plasma rifle missile pod two shield drones

3x broadsides with ASS and drones (don't remember what kind)

2x hammerheads with all the tasty cheap upgrades

4x 12 fire warriors with devilfish with al the tasty cheap upgrades but keeping their drones.


you'll probably notice a big lack of markerlights and crisis suits. the commander joined the broadsides and then they just became a hard core unit, the commander and the broadside team leader had target locks. They shot railguns when needed then shot plasma and smart missiles at softer targets.

The fish stayed way back. Hung out and defended the broadsides from aggressive armies. When the time came for objective grabbing, all the surviving fish surge forward and detach drones and debark. That is a lot of discrete shooting that can pin, and then it becomes 3x units that all need to be killed before an objective can be scored. Your home objectives are open for you if you screened them right, and the enemy is going to have a tough time killing off all of the blockers that just appeared.

I was playing a cap and control with a thunderhammer land raider list. He was able to control the termies with a couple fire warrior units, then re-embark those firewarriors and pressure my base. I had 2x5 tac marines and 1x5 with a razorback facing down 2x fish 2x2 gun drones and 24 firewarriors.

I had stomped into his base with my LR and a termie chaplain, an he wasn't going to get it back, in all likelihood. But with 2 turns or even 1, that force that arrived at my base would have probably been able to make me not scoring, and if they could pop that razorback, they could have taken over scoring my own objective. If he had managed to block it, he had me easily on VPs. I got lucky that the game ended on 5.


This post is drifting away from army critique... let me bring it back by saying. Firewarriors in devilfish are vital to the 5th edition standard missions and the GT missions. Bring 5 railguns too