Warmachine/Hordes v2.0

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**blue loki**

FULL METAL COMBAT, MK II
PRIVATEER PRESS ANNOUNCES NEW EDITIONS OF WARMACHINE AND HORDES
Seattle WA. February 9, 2009—Privateer Press, Inc. is proud to announce the new Mk II edition rules for its WARMACHINE and HORDES tabletop games.

“In the past six years of WARMACHINE, the game has grown rapidly, and we feel the time has come to reevaluate and retool in preparation for the upcoming years of full metal combat. We have chosen to tighten the bolts on both the general game rules and the individual model rules to make every model as compelling as possible and to perfect the WARMACHINE experience,” stated Jason Soles, Privateer Press lead developer.

The public will get their first look at the WARMACHINE Mk II rules in April through an open field test, allowing players to become familiar with the changes while providing feedback that will assist Privateer Press in making final adjustments to WARMACHINE Mk II before going to press.

The WARMACHINE: Prime Mk II rulebook will be released to the public in early 2010. The new edition of HORDES will follow later in the year. All tournaments, leagues, and release events that make up Privateer Press organized play will adopt the new edition on its release.

More information regarding the WARMACHINE Mk II rules will be announced as it becomes available. This and other news items can be found at www.privateerpress.com and in the pages of No Quarter Magazine.

WARMACHINE Mk II FAQ.

------------------

About WARMACHINE and HORDES
WARMACHINE and HORDES are the critically acclaimed tabletop games of miniatures combat designed by game industry veteran Matt Wilson and placed in the award-winning setting of the Iron Kingdoms. WARMACHINE was first released in 2003 and has won several awards, including Gamers’ Choice Best Miniatures of the Year and Game of the Year at the 2006 Origins Awards. HORDES, first released in 2006, was named Miniatures Game of the Year at the 2007 Origins Awards and is one of the fastest-growing miniatures games on the market.

About Privateer Press, Inc.
Privateer Press, Inc. is a privately held producer of entertainment and hobby brands based in the Seattle area. Its products include the newly released Monsterpocalypse collectible miniatures game, the award-winning WARMACHINE and HORDES hobby miniatures games, the award-winning Iron Kingdoms property, Bodger Games, the full-color No Quarter Magazine, and the Formula P3 hobby line. To learn more about Privateer Press, visit www.privateerpress.com or contact the president, Sherry Yeary, at (425) 643-5900 or sherry@privateerpress.com.

Holy

!
We knew it would happen, but I had no idea it would be this soon!

EDIT: Link to the WM/H Mk2 FAQ

**dietrich**

PP is just like GW now! The End is Nigh!

So, what upstart company will come along and offer something for all the GW haters to play?

**stonefox**

dietrich wrote:PP is just like GW now! The End is Nigh!

Sure they're the same, if GW did this:
The public will get their first look at the WARMACHINE Mk II rules in April through an open field test, allowing players to become familiar with the changes while providing feedback that will assist Privateer Press in making final adjustments to WARMACHINE Mk II before going to press.

**blue loki**

And don't miss this:

Are any of my models going to be obsolete in WARMACHINE Mk II?
No. All WARMACHINE models will still be usable in the new edition.

Big changes in the FAQ. Take a look!

**George Spiggott**

So is this the next thing out after Metamorphosis and not Retribution Elves?

Open play testing sounds good, Warmachine is beginning to creak under the sheer weight of books new players need to familiarise themselves with.

I'm divided upon whether this is a little soon after Prime: Remix. I definitely think that Prime Remix was a necessary stop gap.

[Edit] Warmachine II FAQ

WARMACHINE Mk II
Frequently Asked Questions
What is Mk II? Is it like Prime Remix but with more changes?
WARMACHINE Mk II is a new edition of the game, not a refinement of the existing edition. WARMACHINE: Prime Remix was not a new edition but rather an update to WARMACHINE: Prime.

The new edition will contain significant updates to the core rules of the game as well as comprehensive updates for existing WARMACHINE models and units. Numerous adjustments have been made throughout the game to streamline gameplay and clarify rules interactions.
What does that mean for the players?
As we have always maintained, WARMACHINE is an evolving game, and we are constantly striving to make it the best miniatures game experience you can possibly find. For nearly six years, we have collected and analyzed feedback from our player community and spent countless hours critiquing our own work. As a result, we have developed new and better methods for presenting the mechanics of a complex tabletop war game. The changes in WARMACHINE Mk II will range from subtle to significant, but for the most part, you will still see the game you know and love.

WARMACHINE Mk II is not a relaunch with the intention of drawing a different audience to the product, nor will existing players be compelled to purchase new armies in the wake of change. This is a system upgrade intended as one more step toward a perfect game. We are confident that when you have a chance to see where we have gone with things, you will feel it is a right and natural evolution for WARMACHINE.

After six years and hundreds of models, there is some fine-tuning and consolidation that must be done. WARMACHINE Mk II will address those nagging little things that have stacked up over the years of releases.
Which core rules have changed, and how?
Additional details will be forthcoming, but some of the core rules changes in WARMACHINE Mk II include modifications to the warjack system rules, the unit formation rules, and the point cost system.

Every single model has been reevaluated from top to bottom for game balance as well as rules interactions to bring you the best tabletop gaming experience possible.
What are some of the most important changes to warjacks?
Like warbeasts, warjacks are no longer destroyed until they have lost all of their damage boxes. There are no longer “disabled” wrecks and “destroyed” wrecks; a wreck is simply a warjack with every damage box already marked off.

Furthermore, many of the attack penalties for performing power attacks have been reduced or eliminated, and most warjacks now have a higher MAT and RAT than before.
What are some of the most important changes to warriors?
The unit formation rules have been changed to eliminate the four types of formation (tight formation, open formation, skirmish formation, and cavalry formation). A model is now either in formation or not.

Units have also been streamlined significantly so that the number of stat profiles players need to remember is roughly half of what it was.
Will many models change in point cost?
Every single model will change in point cost. The point cost system has been retooled in WARMACHINE Mk II.
Are any of my models going to be obsolete in WARMACHINE Mk II?
No. All WARMACHINE models will still be usable in the new edition.
Will any of my Mercenary or Minion models become unusable with my faction?
No. A Mercenary or Minion model may be able to work for additional factions in WARMACHINE Mk II, but no models currently usable in your faction army list will become unusable.
Am I going to have to buy a bunch more models in order to stay competitive?
No. The goal of the new edition is to improve gameplay and balance. Players will have more options than ever but will be able to transition existing armies into WARMACHINE Mk II.
There are models coming out that I was planning on getting. Should I hold off until Prime Mk II is released?
Not at all. Upcoming models released prior to Mk II will be welcome additions to your WARMACHINE Mk II army lists. Some of these models will see a bit of streamlining in the new edition, but Mk II is all about options. New models as well as old favorites will receive a tune-up for rules clarity and functionality in order to be ready to meet on the field of battle. The only thing you'll be missing if you get the model now is the Mk II stat card, which will be available in the upcoming Mk II faction decks.
Will my favorite model be stronger or weaker in WARMACHINE Mk II?
That depends on your favorite model. Some models will grow stronger, while others will be more accurately balanced. You may find a new favorite model when you break into WARMACHINE Mk II or renew interest in an old favorite you’d almost forgotten.
When will WARMACHINE officially move to Mk II, and what does this mean for HORDES?
WARMACHINE: Prime Mk II will be available early in 2010, with force books to follow. HORDES will also move to the Mk II rules in 2010. HORDES will remain completely compatible with WARMACHINE.
Will I be able to use my current model cards?
No. New cards will be needed to play WARMACHINE Mk II. Card layout and content is being revisited to provide all relevant information as clearly and concisely as possible. These Mk II cards will be available when the new edition releases in 2010.
What will be the overall cost for the average player to upgrade to WARMACHINE Mk II?
Players will need to purchase new faction card decks for the faction(s) they play and will need the new WARMACHINE: Prime Mk II rulebook.
What does WARMACHINE Mk II mean for organized play?
Organized play will continue in the current WARMACHINE edition throughout 2009, and all official Privateer Press events throughout 2009 will use the existing rules.

In 2010, WARMACHINE leagues, tournaments, and release events will use the new edition of the rules.
Where can I catch my first glimpse of WARMACHINE Mk II?
A public field test of the WARMACHINE Mk II rules is scheduled for April 2009. This will be both a public introduction to the new system and an opportunity to clarify any rules questions before the books go to print.

The field test will offer players the opportunity to play WARMACHINE Mk II versions of all the models from Prime, Escalation, Apotheosis, Superiority, Legends, and Pirates of the Broken Coast in a month-long league. Players will be able to provide feedback on errors, problems, and so on via an online interface during the test month.
Is WARMACHINE Mk II still in the early stages, then?
No, WARMACHINE Mk II has been in development and testing internally for almost a full year already. The public field test is merely the last step in providing you the cleanest rules set possible.

**Foda_Bett**

Guess I should hold off on selling my Warmachine then.

**Voodoo Boyz**

Wow. I'm almost not even sure what to think about it all.

**dietrich**

stonefox wrote:
dietrich wrote:PP is just like GW now! The End is Nigh!

Sure they're the same, if GW did this:
The public will get their first look at the WARMACHINE Mk II rules in April through an open field test, allowing players to become familiar with the changes while providing feedback that will assist Privateer Press in making final adjustments to WARMACHINE Mk II before going to press.

In addition to Bold, Italicize, Underline, Quote, and Spoiler options for posting - can there be a Sarcasm button too?

GW takes a lot more feedback than people give them credit for. I mean, people buy Space Marines, they make lots of Space Marines. That's feedback, right? PP does seem to respond to feedback and criticism a lot better than GW though. And, I'll give PP credit, with this announcement, they actually gave some details to support it. In the past, there have been a lot of announcements that were more like Decrees from the Desk of Matt Wilson. After about 8 pages of forum posts, someone (usually Wilson) would have to step in with a post that would clarify a lot of the decree. For example, "PP has ended its relationship with GF9." 8 Pages later, "we intend to produce our own tokens." 8 pages later, "And not ones like the Hordes tokens."

Also, PP says that this has been under development for a year or so. I don't think there will be 'radical' changes at this point.

It gives me some hope. I like a lot of things about WM, but the amount of special rules (and their interactions) became daunting. I also think they added too many 'break the core rules' abilities, which often either set up an assassination (when you thought you were safe) or could block your assassination.

**stonefox**

Yes, I know you were being sarcastic. And, judging from your reply, I did the right thing.

GW takes a lot more feedback than people give them credit for. I mean, people buy Space Marines, they make lots of Space Marines. That's feedback, right?

It's the right kind of feedback for a miniatures company. :-P

**skrulnik**

stonefox wrote:
Sure they're the same, if GW did this:
The public will get their first look at the WARMACHINE Mk II rules in April through an open field test, allowing players to become familiar with the changes while providing feedback that will assist Privateer Press in making final adjustments to WARMACHINE Mk II before going to press.

Well, GW did this once before with the Trial Vehicle and Trial Assault rules. I don't know how much they used the feedback, but the way PP is stating this is very similar to what GW said when the TVR and TAR came out.

Notice that they are changing ALL the point values. So all the stat card decks and rulebooks out now will be useless. So they are hitting a reset button, and the Book Purchase Carousel will start over.

I remember hearing about not phasing out models before, VOID did this also, but completely redesigned the lines when they changed to VOID1.1

**chaplaingrabthar**

Well, I guess I'll be holding off on starting the Menoth army that I mentioned in the Warmahordes forum.

**blue loki**

Well I can't argue too much against holding off if you haven't started yet due to this announcement. I would recommend that you at least proxy or borrow models. The current game is still loads of fun and its a shame to miss out on it.

I predict that we won't see the release until GenCon 2010. They tend to do Big Things at GenCon, and this would be the perfect Big Thing for them to focus on next year.

EDIT: Plus, if you don't play before the update, you'll be unable to go off on "back in my day!" ramblings.

**redstripe**

Come back to me Sam McHorne!

**George Spiggott**

redstripe wrote:Come back to me Sam McHorne!

I'd like to see an even hand with abilities and points this time round. A little more love for Sam and a little less for Alexia and Alana.

**Noisy_Marine**

Wow. I'm actually pretty excited about this. And here I was getting bored of Cryx. Maybe bile thralls will have to roll to hit when they purge now? Hmm...

I like the way PP is obviously making an effort to incorporate fan feedback into their system. GW could learn a lot from these guys. Maybe GW will get around to tweaking their rules one day, in a way that doesn't involve a massive pendulum swing.

Yeah, that would be cool. *AHEM*

**JohnHwangDD**

blue loki wrote:

PRIVATEER PRESS ANNOUNCES NEW EDITIONS OF WARMACHINE AND HORDES

“In the past six years of WARMACHINE, the game has grown rapidly,

We knew it would happen, but I had no idea it would be this soon!

Soon?

It's been 6 years, plenty of time to push a new version out.

It'll be interesting to see fan reaction to this as details emerge, aside from this:

Players will need to purchase new faction card decks for the faction(s) they play and will need the new WARMACHINE: Prime Mk II rulebook.

No more freeloading!

The question to me is whether "Mk.II" will be received like 40k2, 40k3, or Conf2.

**carmachu**

JohnHwangDD wrote:
Soon?

It's been 6 years, plenty of time to push a new version out.

Its VERY soon for Hordes however. Hordes is only what? 2 years old?

**Agamemnon2**

For Warmachine, this is a long-awaited good thing. I'm sure the opportunity to re-evaluate the points costs of every model is something that will be welcomed by the playing community. It gives them the chance to address the "power creep" and to make old models meaningful and useable in the game. I think the decision to redo all the stat cards saves a lot of hassle in the longer run, since an edition switch would result in wording changes in various special rules, to say nothing of unit stats and costs being changed.

I like that they've announced this early, that gives players the chance to look ahead, and for them to gather opinions and suggestions from them. The public beta test is also a good thing.

Hordes players will, I suppose, have more to grumble about, but by the time this new edition comes out, Primal will be 4 years old.

**Hordini**

This is definitely some big news. I felt a bit of apprehension as I started reading this (as I almost always do when games I like or am interested in announce the release of a new edition) but I am hoping that PP is right and that they really do use this as an opportunity to improve on something that is as far as I'm concerned, already a good thing. If that's the case I'll most likely make the switch and continue buying PP minis here and there.

Flames of War 2nd edition was absolutely a great improvement, and from what most people have said, 5th edition 40k is better than 4th, so there's no reason that 2nd Edition Warmachine and Hordes can't be a very good update too. Buying a new book and some new cards isn't that big of a deal to me, as long as the ruleset is solid and the changes are a true improvement.

**BeefyG**

stonefox wrote:
dietrich wrote:PP is just like GW now! The End is Nigh!

Sure they're the same, if GW did this:
The public will get their first look at the WARMACHINE Mk II rules in April through an open field test, allowing players to become familiar with the changes while providing feedback that will assist Privateer Press in making final adjustments to WARMACHINE Mk II before going to press.

Quoted for truth. Seriously all PP vs GW flame comparisons aside. PP has presented an enlightened business model, whilst GW continues to represent a large religious order mired in its own dogma.

Go Go PP!

**Neil**

I'm cautiously optimisitc...

I played warmachine a bit, but at the end of the day didn't really like the rules (mostly that it advertises as a big stompy robot game but most games were getting dominated by infantry around here).

If the new rules are good maybe I'll get back into it.

**George Spiggott**

JohnHwangDD wrote:The question to me is whether "Mk.II" will be received like 40k2, 40k3, or Conf2.

I'd say both 40k2 & 3 divided the community There's not much to seperate them as far as reaction goes IMO. Did Conf2 cause a reaction anywhere, or did you mean Conf 4?

I'm hoping for a FoW 2, WFB 4 to 5 or Vampire the Masqurade 1 to 2 transition myself.

**livingregret**

YES!! It is about time!!! W00t this is great news for all PP fans or people interested in the game. i have been following it since it first came out and at times things have gotten confusing. Good to see them combing over everything and readjusting Warjacks to finally, hopefully, bring them back to being useful and tone down Infantrymachine.

**malfred**

I'm excited

**ShumaGorath**

Maybe Warmachine will become something other than a clix game with cards instead of dials. I played it for a while (like 2 years), but the amount of net decking and powergaming in that community is really offputting. Its not about personalizing a force, its about winning. It got too close to a CMG for me.

**malfred**

ShumaGorath wrote:Maybe Warmachine will become something other than a clix game with cards instead of dials. I played it for a while (like 2 years), but the amount of net decking and powergaming in that community is really offputting. Its not about personalizing a force, its about winning. It got too close to a CMG for me.

It's just a different game.

It's not like anyone reads custom fluff anyway.

Slowly the Harbinger floated above Mikael. She said, "You can pop your feat as much as you
like, but you'll never drop me."

"We'll see about THAT," he said, and auto-hit her two times...

**livingregret**

ShumaGorath wrote:Maybe Warmachine will become something other than a clix game with cards instead of dials. I played it for a while (like 2 years), but the amount of net decking and powergaming in that community is really offputting. Its not about personalizing a force, its about winning. It got too close to a CMG for me.

I will say that most of the community does adhere to the page 5 philosophy of Win win win. Which I can appreciate...I truly can. But as the game has progressed it has become incredibly hard for new people to jump in because the learning curve is huge w/ out using premade armies you get offline.

Having said that the point of any game is to win and at least PP endorsed that and basically made the game"Almost everything is cheese...so stop your crying and figure it out"
I have had so many games that looked one sided until one of us pulled out something crazy and won..great games and a very fluid game system overall

**ShumaGorath**

livingregret wrote:
ShumaGorath wrote:Maybe Warmachine will become something other than a clix game with cards instead of dials. I played it for a while (like 2 years), but the amount of net decking and powergaming in that community is really offputting. Its not about personalizing a force, its about winning. It got too close to a CMG for me.

I will say that most of the community does adhere to the page 5 philosophy of Win win win. Which I can appreciate...I truly can. But as the game has progressed it has become incredibly hard for new people to jump in because the learning curve is huge w/ out using premade armies you get offline.

Having said that the point of any game is to win and at least PP endorsed that and basically made the game"Almost everything is cheese...so stop your crying and figure it out"
I have had so many games that looked one sided until one of us pulled out something crazy and won..great games and a very fluid game system overall

At its core I think thats because of the tremendous set creep that was present in that game. The power creep in warmachine makes the power creep in 40k look tiny and insignificant. A player using only the first two or three books can not compete. Period. He will be trashed. The reason for this is because the balancing mechanisms in that game were placed via power creep upgrades to units (IE infantry additions, jack replacements, and caster upgrades). There is a definitive and easily followed power curve. The game really needed a reset.

**Ghaz**

ShumaGorath wrote:Maybe Warmachine will become something other than a clix game with cards instead of dials. I played it for a while (like 2 years), but the amount of net decking and powergaming in that community is really offputting. Its not about personalizing a force, its about winning. It got too close to a CMG for me.

QFT. Actually to me it seemed more like a CCG, trying to determine which 'cards' to link together to perform an uber combo to win the game.

**livingregret**

ShumaGorath wrote:
At its core I think thats because of the tremendous set creep that was present in that game. The power creep in warmachine makes the power creep in 40k look tiny and insignificant. A player using only the first two or three books can not compete. Period. He will be trashed. The reason for this is because the balancing mechanisms in that game were placed via power creep upgrades to units (IE infantry additions, jack replacements, and caster upgrades). There is a definitive and easily followed power curve. The game really needed a reset.

True true....I am glad to see points/units get reworked. It was needed, there were somethings never worth taking while others were a must have in every army. +Jacks getting some boost is always great to hear. About time to be honest