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**NinthMusketeer**

I am curious if the "Crypt Flayers" are rebranded Vargheists or an actual new warscroll. I'd be pretty hyped if it was a new warscroll, GW making a new units by rearranging parts in an existing kit could mean new warscrolls for factions that get reboxed without model releases (or only character ones) which is a good thing in my book. I'm sure people will call GW lazy for it, but hey its better than the alternative of nothing new.

**Manchu**

Hard to imagine any living humans cooperating with ghouls ... just doubt the ghouls could control themselves.

**Colonel Cabbage**

NinthMusketeer wrote:
I am curious if the "Crypt Flayers" are rebranded Vargheists or an actual new warscroll. I'd be pretty hyped if it was a new warscroll, GW making a new units by rearranging parts in an existing kit could mean new warscrolls for factions that get reboxed without model releases (or only character ones) which is a good thing in my book. I'm sure people will call GW lazy for it, but hey its better than the alternative of nothing new.

They are a new warscroll. If you check the pictures the wing poses are the same as the vargheists, but the backs/shoulders and heads are from the Crypt Horrors. My guess would be that they can be assembled either way,

**Uriels_Flame**

The way they have them painted up look really great and I bet look really intimidating on the battlefield.

Ghouls can't be high points so 200 of them on the field would be nuts.

**NewTruthNeomaxim**

Binabik15 wrote:
They should at least release a clampack Strigoi/ghoul king. You can't expect people to always use a monster riding general in a "skirmish" game. Oh wait, GW mightt just do that.

And I'm salty because GW never released a plastic Black Coach that I could use multiples of to create a gypsi/Ravnos inspired Strigoi army traveling in carts from town to town, feeding their ghoulish offspring and siblings with the flesh of the living under the rule of their once noble lord brought low into a monstrous, seldom seen charicature of himself. They even nuked the Free Company kit, so even if they should ever release a coach I can't get fitting human rabble to built gypsi fighters. And building a coach or sleeping wagon from scratch is HARD.

(I would have used old metal ghouls or Heresy Miniatures ghouls, though).

Never realized the Black Coach was never a plastic kit. That finally explains why I could never find one at any my local shops.

**Nova_Impero**

The Flesh-Eater Courts seem interesting enough for what they bring.

**Binabik15**

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Binabik15 wrote:
They should at least release a clampack Strigoi/ghoul king. You can't expect people to always use a monster riding general in a "skirmish" game. Oh wait, GW mightt just do that.

And I'm salty because GW never released a plastic Black Coach that I could use multiples of to create a gypsi/Ravnos inspired Strigoi army traveling in carts from town to town, feeding their ghoulish offspring and siblings with the flesh of the living under the rule of their once noble lord brought low into a monstrous, seldom seen charicature of himself. They even nuked the Free Company kit, so even if they should ever release a coach I can't get fitting human rabble to built gypsi fighters. And building a coach or sleeping wagon from scratch is HARD.

(I would have used old metal ghouls or Heresy Miniatures ghouls, though).

Never realized the Black Coach was never a plastic kit. That finally explains why I could never find one at any my local shops.

And it was always super expensive

I like the new unit from existing kit idea. However, there aren't many were they could do it with, right?

**Zatsuku**

Zywus wrote:
Zatsuku wrote:
I like it. I'm finally starting to feel like there is something to the realms beyond Stormcasts and Sigmar and Chaos.
Reboxed ghouls?

Reboxing isn't exciting. Some kind of backstory to a kingdom of Shyish beyond 'it's dead people owned by Nagash' is welcome.

**monders**

Manchu wrote:Hard to imagine any living humans cooperating with ghouls ... just doubt the ghouls could control themselves.

They'd be fine, ghouls eat dead flesh

**Fayric**

monders wrote:
Manchu wrote:Hard to imagine any living humans cooperating with ghouls ... just doubt the ghouls could control themselves.

They'd be fine, ghouls eat dead flesh

Thats what I thought, but the WD cover say "the ghoul kings armies prey on all who live". Some crazy AoS lore twist?

**Mr Morden**

monders wrote:
Manchu wrote:Hard to imagine any living humans cooperating with ghouls ... just doubt the ghouls could control themselves.

They'd be fine, ghouls eat dead flesh

Don't we all ................

Just eating the dead, I think is Cthulhu Ghouls - the Warhammer / now AOS, well they kill and then eat you (or maybe as you are dying) - that being said like most Undead they could cooperate with the living, as long as their is enough meat to feed them.

People co-operated with Skaven (mad fools) so Ghouls are likely are better bet than them!

**Fayric**

Mr Morden wrote:
monders wrote:
Manchu wrote:Hard to imagine any living humans cooperating with ghouls ... just doubt the ghouls could control themselves.

They'd be fine, ghouls eat dead flesh

Don't we all ................

Just eating the dead, I think is Cthulhu Ghouls - the Warhammer / now AOS, well they kill and then eat you (or maybe as you are dying)

You seem to be quite correct, apparently some of the old sources, like the "thousand and one nights" tales, say gouls atack and eat people in a canibalistic fasion, but usualy find it easier to dig up corpses from cemetaries.
You learn something new each day. The common swedish name for Ghouls would directly translate to corpse eater, but ofcourse, thats basicly from the 80ies RPG world and a translation of Talisman, I guess.

**Mr Morden**

Fayric wrote:
Mr Morden wrote:
monders wrote:
Manchu wrote:Hard to imagine any living humans cooperating with ghouls ... just doubt the ghouls could control themselves.

They'd be fine, ghouls eat dead flesh

Don't we all ................

Just eating the dead, I think is Cthulhu Ghouls - the Warhammer / now AOS, well they kill and then eat you (or maybe as you are dying)

You seem to be quite correct, apparently some of the old sources, like the "thousand and one nights" tales, say gouls atack and eat people in a canibalistic fasion, but usualy find it easier to dig up corpses from cemetaries.
You learn something new each day. The common swedish name for Ghouls would directly translate to corpse eater, but ofcourse, thats basicly from the 80ies RPG world and a translation of Talisman, I guess.

I think it all depends on how proactive a given Ghoul or his/her (weird how they are all male models.....) tribe are at getting hold of the corpses. Some eat the dead from graveyards, others may hunt and kill and then eat the now warm corpse.

I guess a Vampire of Necormancer could even have Ghouls to "clean" the bones for them to raise skeletons.......

You could also potentially have a symbiotic relationship with a large community in that the Ghouls are protectors fed by the Town/city - the issue becomes if the Ghouls need more meat than the community can provide.

Undead are (sometimes) people too..............

**Uriels_Flame**

Take genestealer heads on ghoul bodies = cthulu win!

I like it!

**Binabik15**

Manchu wrote:
Hard to imagine any living humans cooperating with ghouls ... just doubt the ghouls could control themselves.

Well, I'll forge a different narrative

I don't find it hard to believe that a powerful (pack) leader can keep "ghouls" on a tight enough leash. Especially if they're locked up by their relatives in those very handy wagons. Only let out to feaat on the occasional wanderer, wayward child, isolated farmsteads and city lowlives.

Ghouls are a not a specific entity and in this case it'd be the thralls of a Strigoi that are most affected by their masters curse.

Spoiler:

I rather liked that army idea, it's full of easy yet effective tropes like the once noble king fallen from grace, child snatchers, gypsi magic, the charming rogue fighting to keep his monstrous brother safe (from the ruthless witch hunter nemesis), things in the dark, disappearing beggars etc.

**Nova_Impero**

Binabik15 wrote:
Manchu wrote:
Hard to imagine any living humans cooperating with ghouls ... just doubt the ghouls could control themselves.

Well, I'll forge a different narrative

I don't find it hard to believe that a powerful (pack) leader can keep "ghouls" on a tight enough leash. Especially if they're locked up by their relatives in those very handy wagons. Only let out to feaat on the occasional wanderer, wayward child, isolated farmsteads and city lowlives.

Ghouls are a not a specific entity and in this case it'd be the thralls of a Strigoi that are most affected by their masters curse.

Spoiler:

The idea goes back to the debut of the Strigoi and I actually talked to Gave Thorpe on Warseer where he explictly said that magic is involved in their degeneration, not just corpse eating and bad bloodline genetics. Their underlings should be affected then as well.

I rather liked that army idea, it's full of easy yet effective tropes like the once noble king fallen from grace, child snatchers, gypsi magic, the charming rogue fighting to keep his monstrous brother safe (from the ruthless witch hunter nemesis), things in the dark, disappearing beggars etc.

The stroy write's itself.

**shinros**

Well mannfred in the audio drama does display how ghouls become enthralled to the vampires will.

When they reach helstone with the stormcast mannfred talks in ghoul language and then the three leaders come forth. Or the ones that seem in charge.

Mannfred talks in ghoul language for bit cuts open his veins and then they start drinking his blood afterwards they are his. Of course this is also how crypt horrors are made because they have fed on vampire blood for quite awhile growing extremely large.

You can also use magic to control them like mannfred does in the next volume so that explains how necromancers do it. Some just join a vampire lord in battle to have a chance to eat stuff.

**Thunderfrog**

Binabik15 wrote:
They should at least release a clampack Strigoi/ghoul king. You can't expect people to always use a monster riding general in a "skirmish" game. Oh wait, GW mightt just do that.

And I'm salty because GW never released a plastic Black Coach that I could use multiples of to create a gypsi/Ravnos inspired Strigoi army traveling in carts from town to town, feeding their ghoulish offspring and siblings with the flesh of the living under the rule of their once noble lord brought low into a monstrous, seldom seen charicature of himself. They even nuked the Free Company kit, so even if they should ever release a coach I can't get fitting human rabble to built gypsi fighters. And building a coach or sleeping wagon from scratch is HARD.

(I would have used old metal ghouls or Heresy Miniatures ghouls, though).

Tthat's a fairly specific demand.

**sadysaneto**

TBH, its been a long time since we last played AOS as a skirmish game.

IMO, as it stands, its like something beetwen skirmish and R&F

**Thunderfrog**

I think you could play it as one, but at 3 hours for 100 SCGT points, it never feels like it.

**Charles Rampant**

I think that Age of Sigmar is a 'grand skirmish' game; the dudes may be moving around in loose skirmish formation, but you can expect to see up to a hundred guys on the table per side, depending on flavour and whatnot. SAGA is a game that I often hear in the same vein, with about the same number of models as a Warhammer Fantasy Battles army, but arranged differently.

Obviously some army themes will be very low model count - taking Chaos Chariots and Monsters will quite quickly fill up many comp systems - but equally an undead army that turns up with 60 Skeleton Warriors in three units would not seem out of line to me.

**zamerion**

Points???

http://cdn.bols.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/AOSpointsindex.jpg

**sadysaneto**

Thunderfrog wrote:
I think you could play it as one, but at 3 hours for 100 SCGT points, it never feels like it.

I tried azyr, sdk, wounds, pools...

but i gotta say i love scgt.

we dont usually play with points, only when we want a really big game, but man, scgt points and rules nailed it.

**mdauben**

Charles Rampant wrote:
SAGA is a game that I often hear in the same vein, with about the same number of models as a Warhammer Fantasy Battles army, but arranged differently.

Really? SAGA is just being introduced to our local group by a couple of players, but in my limited reading on the game I've never heard of anyone playing with more than 20-30 figures per side. From what I've seen of the rules it seems ill suited to larger games.

**Charles Rampant**

mdauben wrote:
Charles Rampant wrote:
SAGA is a game that I often hear in the same vein, with about the same number of models as a Warhammer Fantasy Battles army, but arranged differently.

Really? SAGA is just being introduced to our local group by a couple of players, but in my limited reading on the game I've never heard of anyone playing with more than 20-30 figures per side. From what I've seen of the rules it seems ill suited to larger games.

I must be misremembering in that case, or at least wildly overestimating the size of forces. However, 20-30 is still far more than a 'skirmish' game would typically have, right?

**Ghaz**

Charles Rampant wrote:
mdauben wrote:
Charles Rampant wrote:
SAGA is a game that I often hear in the same vein, with about the same number of models as a Warhammer Fantasy Battles army, but arranged differently.

Really? SAGA is just being introduced to our local group by a couple of players, but in my limited reading on the game I've never heard of anyone playing with more than 20-30 figures per side. From what I've seen of the rules it seems ill suited to larger games.

I must be misremembering in that case, or at least wildly overestimating the size of forces. However, 20-30 is still far more than a 'skirmish' game would typically have, right?

No. 20-30 is about right for a skirmish game.

**Baron Klatz**

Don't forget the ghoul kingdom under Mousillon!

Their leaders are self-controlled enough to mimic corrupted lords and debased mayors but it's a thin veneer that will lead you to doing horrific acts such as sinking a slave ship so the kingdom can feast on the thousand drowned bodies.

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

Fayric wrote:
monders wrote:
Manchu wrote:Hard to imagine any living humans cooperating with ghouls ... just doubt the ghouls could control themselves.

They'd be fine, ghouls eat dead flesh

Thats what I thought, but the WD cover say "the ghoul kings armies prey on all who live". Some crazy AoS lore twist?

I always thought of them as cannibals who weren't fussy.

Besides its all semantics. If you kill a living person and eat him, you're eating dead flesh. If you try to eat him alive, then I doubt he'll cooperate, and in the process of subduing him enough to eat him, you'll have killed him anyway.

**Manchu**

zamerion wrote:
Points???

http://cdn.bols.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/AOSpointsindex.jpg

Maybe - between quality of pic and quality of layout that could be anything.

**Chopxsticks**

I dont understand this mix max BS

If its 200 points for either the minimum size or the maximum size, why would you not take the maximum... Unless they are also throwing in some model count limit over all...