6th edition rumour and news summary (1st post updated daily with new info!)

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**Spartan089**

Out of all the rumors I'm more worried about the new Chaos space marines codex now, from what I'm hearing our codex is getting a grand total of just 2 new units, not counting returning units such as cultist from previous editions... and we are losing dreadnoughts all together apparently. This is one of the only times I wish Matt Ward did write the codex, at least then we would be competitive because ever since 4th Chaos has been getting worse and worse. Against most armies we have to rely on boring lash prince and Oblitorators, and even then we pretty much have no hope of winning against any competent GK player. The 4th edition codex is an abomination that should never have been written.

**Fafnir**

4th edition. There was no 5th ed release for CSM. And I honestly doubt they'll lose dreadnoughts. Those things are pretty iconic.

**Ascalam**

Ugly as sin, and crazy to boot, but iconic..

At least they aren't the ancient one with the Heavy plasma gun, Lobster claw and very suggestive groinal spike

(I had several of those once upon a time...)

Apparently i had the hips on backwards, or this one does

Nice paintjob though

**Spartan089**

double post, fix'd

**ShumaGorath**

warboss wrote:
ShumaGorath wrote:
Vaktathi wrote:
Pyriel- wrote:
1.) all your units get move though cover for ruins and stealth in ruins.

That is simply over the top, way to powerful!

Now just have to get through the long wait for a new codex SM so they get inline with all the rest creep armies.
Yes...because SM's have to wait *SOOOOoooo* long between updates and are so at the bottom of the heap right now.

They're about third from bottom. Generic marines aren't in a particularly great spot. Tau and possibly nids need help more, but theres no reason to take C:SM when you can just say "counts as blood angels" take the exact same stuff and save 200+ points.

Tau, Chaos Marines, Chaos Demons, Black Templars, Eldar, Dark Angels, Orks. If by 3rd from the bottom in oldest codex you really mean 8th, then yes.

In fifth at least Orks, C

aemons, and Templars are all much better. DAs, and chaos marines are about on par. You really haven't been looking at the tourney results if you think orks aren't still pretty up there in terms of power. They're certainly better than codex marines, C:SM wasn't even a roadbump when orks were tourney dominant.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Fetterkey wrote:
Ascalam wrote:Something the Nids said or did really really must have annoyed someone in the studio. They have been shafted over and over the last few years.

I used to play Nids, and still like the models, but yeah...

I guess you didn't read this thread, then, since Tyranids are getting hugely buffed by the new ruleset.

ShumaGorath wrote:Tau and possibly nids need help more, but theres no reason to take C:SM when you can just say "counts as blood angels" take the exact same stuff and save 200+ points.

That's funny, Codex: Blood Angels units are usually more expensive than their Codex: Space Marines counterparts, with the exception of Devastator squads and the transport discount for Assault Marines without jump packs.

Not really. Almost every weapon option on almost every single squad is cheaper in blood angels as well as several vehicle weapons. That means tacs, devs, sterns, vanguard, and assaults are cheaper by default. They pay less on a few Sargent upgrades too. They also don't pay for their special abilities. Red thirst and descent of angels is free and both are superior to voluntary fallback/fleet on bad units/redundant stubborn. The only more expensive units with a direct analogue are th/ss termies and land vehicles, the vehicles being superior for that 15 point investment (except whirlwinds, but those are trash anyway).

**Militarized**

Could someone explain to me why Tyranids are so bad? I thought the Codex was good... been out of the loop for awhile.

Could someone also point me in the direction of the reddit post with theguy who had the book? Can't seem to find a link or anything in my searching

**Cheex**

Spartan089 wrote:and we are losing dreadnoughts all together apparently.

No we're not. At worst, it'll just have a different name or be bought in a different form.

**Reivax26**

Yeah if you are looking for a pity party as a Codex Space Marine player you aren't getting any luck with me. There are a lot of codexes more deserving of being revamped. How many builds are viable with your codex as it is now compared to the other ones that Warboss mentioned?

Dark Angels and Black Templars are both needing revamps although I am not against the idea of a bunch of the Space Marine armies being in one book in the next edition. Hell make it as big as the rulebook and hardback and call it Codex Astartes. GW could even charge $75 for it too. Think about it, they could update all of the following: Generic Marines, Dark Angels, Black Templar and even include Sisters of Battle if they were smart. You could update 4 codexes with one book.

Now why isn't this going to happen? Because GW isn't smart enough to realize that by doing this and releasing models for all 4 armies at the same time they would make a freakin boatload of money. Even if you didn't want the rules for 3 of the other armies, you would still have to pay $75 to be able to play yours, which in turn makes GW even more money.

**H.B.M.C.**

Fetterkey wrote:I guess you didn't read this thread, then, since Tyranids are getting hugely buffed by the new ruleset.

That's incidental, not by design. They didn't sit down with the specific intent to make Tyranids better by rewriting the 40K core rules.

**ShumaGorath**

Militarized wrote:Could someone explain to me why Tyranids are so bad? I thought the Codex was good... been out of the loop for awhile.

Could someone also point me in the direction of the reddit post with theguy who had the book? Can't seem to find a link or anything in my searching

Competitive meta for 40k ended up featuring a lot of transport vehicles. To counter the transport vehicles, all armies that could started featuring a lot of meltaguns and missile launchers. Tyranids are based on swarm tactics with volumous low stength attacks backed up by monsterous creatures that are meant to kill vehicles. The fast elements of the tyranid army can't hurt the high volume of transport tanks and even when they can (FC horms) the squad inside will usually survive intact to hit them back. The massed missile launchers and equivalents are exceptionally good at taking down tyranid monstrous creatures and the meltagun spam is very good at putting down ones that arrive via burrowing and deep strike.

In general the competitive nature of 40k ensured that almost every army was specifically geared to beat up tyranids because you gear the same way to do that as you do to engage in and fight transport spam. That and imperial guard are somewhat overpowered and can table them in 3 turns. Same with space wolves.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Fetterkey wrote:I guess you didn't read this thread, then, since Tyranids are getting hugely buffed by the new ruleset.

That's incidental, not by design.

I'll wait to see it in action before I believe that it's true. Tyranids weren't really hurt by fifth edition, they were hurt by the transporthammer that took over. They were quite powerful when they weren't facing a mechanized enemy and they had some of the most cost efficient units in the game (hive guard, doom of malantai). Whether that transfers into sixth to make them good and viable is another question.

**H.B.M.C.**

Ascalam wrote:(I had several of those once upon a time...)

What... Chaos Dreadnoughts or suggestive groinal spikes?

**jcd386**

ShumaGorath wrote:
In fifth at least Orks, Caemons, and Templars are all much better. DAs, and chaos marines are about on par. You really haven't been looking at the tourney results if you think orks aren't still pretty up there in terms of power. They're certainly better than codex marines, C:SM wasn't even a roadbump when orks were tourney dominant.

IMO, there is no way that any of these books are better than Codex Space Marine.

Vulkan, bike lists, and even just basic SM lists are all still quite competitive. Definitely more so than Orks, BT, chaos, and Deamons, and probably more than DA. Most people just dont play them because they are not as interesting or w/e as SW, GK, or BA so its rarer to see a good list in action.

**Kingsley**

ShumaGorath wrote:Not really. Almost every weapon option on almost every single squad is cheaper in blood angels as well as several vehicle weapons. That means tacs, devs, sterns, vanguard, and assaults are cheaper by default. They pay less on a few Sargent upgrades too. They also don't pay for their special abilities. Red thirst and descent of angels is free and both are superior to voluntary fallback/fleet on bad units/redundant stubborn. The only more expensive units with a direct analogue are th/ss termies and land vehicles, the vehicles being superior for that 15 point investment (except whirlwinds, but those are trash anyway).

If you believe those things are important, play Blood Angels. I prefer my Space Marines, what with better psychic powers, better special characters, cheaper Rhinos, access to Thunderfire Cannons, cheaper TH/SS Terminators, Combat Tactics, and Mortis-pattern Dreadnoughts in the Elites slot. That said, I recognize that Codex: Blood Angels has some advantages too. Saying it's objectively better, though, is a little silly. Both Codices have advantages and disadvantages, and it's up to the player to choose which units fit their playstyle better and hence which Codex to use.

**Reivax26**

Did I read that right on one of the earlier posts...."You can deploy out of a vehicle that moved and still get your movement afterwards."

Is the real Rhino Rush back where you can get out and Assault or is it just that you get to take your full movement after you get out? Either way I am happy but if I can Assault again then 6th Edition is getting a huge thumbs up from me.

**H.B.M.C.**

jcd386 wrote:IMO, there is no way that any of these books are better than Codex Space Marine.

Vulkan, bike lists, and even just basic SM lists are all still quite competitive. Definitely more so than Orks, BT, chaos, and Deamons, and probably more than DA. Most people just dont play them because they are not as interesting or w/e as SW, GK, or BA so its rarer to see a good list in action.

What's competitive today ain't gonna mean much in a week's time, so debating it is pointless.

**lucasbuffalo**

None of these spoilers have revealed what force weapons do yet have they? I mean, I'm sure everyone assumes it's a power weapon with ID abilities, but I haven't seen it commented on.

Also, I really want to see a full list of all the new powers. This wait is killing me.

JB

Reivax26 wrote:Did I read that right on one of the earlier posts...."You can deploy out of a vehicle that moved and still get your movement afterwards."

Is the real Rhino Rush back where you can get out and Assault or is it just that you get to take your full movement after you get out? Either way I am happy but if I can Assault again then 6th Edition is getting a huge thumbs up from me.

Based on the limited info we have so far the Rhino rush is definitely not back. No indication that you can assault out of anything different than fifth edition. Maybe it will be better once we can read the actual rules. Rhinos are easier to kill though so don't get too optimistic. Three glances will kill one and smoke may be only a 5+ save (still need confirmation).

**Noir Eternal**

@Lucas
It would only make sense that they would be AP2 with the same rules they have now

@JB
Agreed, I would really hope that troop can pile out after a 6" move an attempt a charge, if not Rhino rush is definitely hurting. And smoke doesn't often save a vehicle from getting blown up already. If its down to a 5+ save it really won't help much at all

**azazel the cat**

lucasbuffalo wrote:
Also, I really want to see a full list of all the new powers. This wait is killing me.

Go back about 8-20 pages; it's in there somewhere. The guy on Reddit posted what every psychic power did. The Telepathy and Telekinesis charts seem like they have the most potential. All the others just seem like big, shiny short-range shooting attacks of various strengths.

**jcd386**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
jcd386 wrote:IMO, there is no way that any of these books are better than Codex Space Marine.

Vulkan, bike lists, and even just basic SM lists are all still quite competitive. Definitely more so than Orks, BT, chaos, and Deamons, and probably more than DA. Most people just dont play them because they are not as interesting or w/e as SW, GK, or BA so its rarer to see a good list in action.

What's competitive today ain't gonna mean much in a week's time, so debating it is pointless.

Eh, fair enough. Guess I will save my energy for 6th, when even more people will have no idea what is going on in this silly game...

**Altruizine**

Fetterkey wrote:
I guess you didn't read this thread, then, since Tyranids are getting hugely buffed by the new ruleset.

Please tell us how, wise one.

**azazel the cat**

Altruizine wrote:
Fetterkey wrote:
I guess you didn't read this thread, then, since Tyranids are getting hugely buffed by the new ruleset.

Please tell us how, wise one.

Well, if FOC doubles at 2k, then you can take a LOT of MCs with the Tyranids, and with wings they all become fliers capable of that Vector Strike thing, which sounds pretty strong to me. And I have a feeling that the Doom will probably be able to ruin the day for a lot of psykers.

**jcd386**

Altruizine wrote:
Fetterkey wrote:
I guess you didn't read this thread, then, since Tyranids are getting hugely buffed by the new ruleset.

Please tell us how, wise one.

i'm not sure they've been nerfed or buffed, really. Their psychic powers and MCs are better, but the cover saves and wound allocation might hurt them somewhat. Being able to take a 2nd FOC at 2k points also helps them immensely, and tanks being generally easier to kill (3-4 glances and any tank in the game dies) is also good for them. The FNP changes are good for their MCs (because they will never not get to roll for it when being shot at) but probably bad for their little bugs.

In general it seems to be a trade off, so i think they will still be a subpar army, it will just for different reasons.

**Ferrum_Sanguinis**

Sorry is this has been asked but for the special MC rule that halves the number of attacks but doubles their strength, do you round up or down if the MC has an odd number of attacks?

**GoDz BuZzSaW**

jcd386 wrote:
Altruizine wrote:
Fetterkey wrote:
I guess you didn't read this thread, then, since Tyranids are getting hugely buffed by the new ruleset.

Please tell us how, wise one.

i'm not sure they've been nerfed or buffed, really. Their psychic powers and MCs are better, but the cover saves and wound allocation might hurt them somewhat. Being able to take a 2nd FOC at 2k points also helps them immensely, and tanks being generally easier to kill (3-4 glances and any tank in the game dies) is also good for them. The FNP changes are good for their MCs (because they will never not get to roll for it when being shot at) but probably bad for their little bugs.

In general it seems to be a trade off, so i think they will still be a subpar army, it will just for different reasons.

Depends which psychic powers you mean, FnP will get worse for them as they'll die to small arms fire quicker, (I mean who shoots a Lascannon at them?

) Also enemies are now more resistent to Zoanthrope stuff too with their Deny the Witch.

Cover saves have got worse for them, and i cant see 'Nids using an Imperial fortification.

Fliers will be especially hard to kill for them and when they charge into combat they're also going to get gunned down from overwatch, especially if the enemy's shooting at normal BS.

**warpcrafter**

Chaos Space Marines have needed a new codex ever since the current abomination came out. Not because you can't put together a strong build from it, but because it's boring as hell as those generic Daemons are just an insult to all devotees of chaos. A decent Codex: Chaos would be 400 pages and cover everything. Traitor Legions, Renegade Marines, Daemons, Mutants, Traitor Guard, Daemon world Warriors, Dark Mechanicus, Daemon engines, Trolls, Minotaurs, Zoats, Chaos Orks, Extra angry Marines, Marines who have drank too much red bull, Xenos who have been mutated by chaos, and just to top it all off, a D100 Warpstorms effects chart.

**GoDz BuZzSaW**

For me, The non PoTMS or a daemon equivilent has pissed me right off!

**Cannibal**

That allies matrix is wrong. It shows the Blood Angels and Necrons as an Unholy alliance. Shouldn't it be Brothers in arms?

**xttz**

N.I.B. wrote:
Did I forget any nerf? Yeah, as a final nail in the coffin I think GW nerfed Boneswords into Oblivion as well - AP3. Yeah, that's the spirit, let us not have anything at all to deal with 2+ armour GW!

If you have anything to support this I'd love to see it. As far as I can see, this is one of the bright spots of the Tyranid 6th edition. The rules for Boneswords in their codex (which take precedence) state: No armour saves may be taken against wounds inflicted in close combat by a Tyranid with a Bonesword...

To me this means two things:
1) They're not power weapons, they just ignore armour saves. Meaning they're effectively AP2 but without the damage bonus to vehicles.
2) As the rule applies to all Tyranid close combat attacks (RAW), it means that Shrikes with boneswords will also ignore armour for their I10 'Hammer of Wrath' attacks. I'll just let that one sink in for a minute.

**Altruizine**

azazel the cat wrote:
Altruizine wrote:
Fetterkey wrote:
I guess you didn't read this thread, then, since Tyranids are getting hugely buffed by the new ruleset.

Please tell us how, wise one.

Well, if FOC doubles at 2k, then you can take a LOT of MCs with the Tyranids, and with wings they all become fliers capable of that Vector Strike thing, which sounds pretty strong to me. And I have a feeling that the Doom will probably be able to ruin the day for a lot of psykers.

Getting more FOC slots doesn't get you more points to spend, though. Most (or all) 2000 point armies in 5th didn't have the maximum amount of Monstrous Creatures in them that they could have, and that was due more to expense than slot shortage. The clogged Elites section will benefit from the second FOC, though.

Vector Strikes are cool, but they're a very specific buff to *two* units in the codex, Tyrants and Harpies. Many of the general changes in 6th look like they will harm units across the entire Tyranid codex.

Mostly I was just peeved at Fetterkey's lazy, substanceless, one-line indictment. Anybody with a head on their shoulders can see that this is an extremely volatile mixed bag for Tyranids, with some crushing obstacles as well as some important new advantages.

Some Warseerites have been keeping a decent tally:

Pros:
+ Armored Shell upgraded Hive Tyrant and Tyrannofex are now very hard to handle in close combat
+ Vector Strike makes Harpy and Flying Hive Tyrant better
+ Wider range of Psychic Powers available
+ Vehicles easier to kill with glancing and massed fire
+ Expanded FOC allows for more open Elite slots at higher point levels (if true)
+ Reserves benefit from arriving earlier
+ Gargoyles and Raveners have long charge ranges
+ Deep Strike more forgiving
+ The "6+" innate psychic hood + Shadow in the Warp will likely stack
+ Moving vehicles are hit way easier now
+ All MCs have the Hammer of Wrath rule
+ New Nightfighting rules in every mission (50% to get nightfighting in round 1, roll every turn thereafter again to see if it lingers extra rounds)
+ +2 on charge in Rage, no more forced movement (Might gain errata though in regards to Synapse)
+ Only 25% needed to get cover is very beneficial to especially MCs
+ No more wounds on fearless units, just auto-pass moral in assault
+ Beasts 'ignore terrain'
+ Template weapons always hit vehicles on full strength now (No proper confirmation yet on templates always scattering a full 2D6 on a non-direct hit though - this might compensate for that)

Debateable
- MCs new 'smash' ability to replace the 26D Armour penetration - A definite pro however if you take into account that vehicles are easier to hit in general for its intended purpose to work at least.
- New Prefered Enemy rules
- New Feel No Pain Rules (5+ save, but works against AP 1/2)
- Charge ranges random now, but effectively a slight boost on distance.
- New Cover rules - 5+ from most things now as opposed to 4+, but aquireable for a unit at 25% cover as opposed to 50%. Monstrous creatures absolutely benefit from this rule I'd say - The rule on being able to focus fire on models outside of cover can be problematic for bigger groups though.
+ Accute Senses changed to reroll for outflank

Cons
- Snapshot and defensive fire makes the low armor save Nids more vulnerable than ever in assaults (especially against flamers for fragile units)
- Wound allocation removing from the front can guarantee diminished odds of getting an assault, or in general across the board
- No more fleet, then assault (2D6 charge, yes, but that means you won't have your extra distance from fleet like you would in 5th if you fail your charge)
- No allies
- Zoanthropes no longer get to save against Perils of the Warp
- Boneswords only AP3
- Everything gets a chance to stop the Tyranid psychic powers, which tend to play a big role in the army's ranged anti tank and personal buffs
- No more initiative boost on Furious Charge

Unchanged, unfortunately
- Terrain still sucks for Nids assaulting (now more than ever) - Still init 1 charging into terrain, no confirmation on Nids having grenade-like errata to this.
- Instant Death still wrecks Warriors, The Doom of Malantai, and other T4 MW models, still making them less playable
- + Poison still works as is, wrecking MCs