Tyranid Release in January: GW pre-orders up, discussion starts pg 80

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**-Loki-**

Kroothawk wrote:
Panic wrote:
I do have issue with a company that stated on their own homepage how much they loved GW and warhammer 40,000...
yet went to court and hurt the HHHobby more than any other outside influence since... ever.

So now Chapterhouse dragged GW to court in your version of the world ?

He said went to court, not took to court, and nothing about them initiating it. A little reading comprehension before your next troll attempt?

I wouldn't have issue with 3rd party if their stuff they made for Tyranids was actually good. Like Paulsons boneswords, or the magnificent stuff from Hydracast. Chapterhouses stuff is pretty dire, though.

**Altruizine**

brassangel wrote:

Endobai didn't say there were no wings, but did say:

Still don't expect all your wishes to come true. Remember it is no more than three infantry sprues in the box.

I'm going to guess we get Warriors that can do a lot, including make a Prime, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Shrikes are a separate kit with bits for a Parasite (perhaps changed to a generic, non-special Tyranid).

That seems like a fairly flagrant waste of a kit, unless one of the variables involved is about to undergo a significant redesign.

Currently, Shrikes are just Warriors with wings. So it makes little sense to release a new Warrior kit (especially one that has about a 90% overlap with the old Warrior kit, and mainly seems to be about adding options and tweaking minor differences in terms of pose and WYSIWYGness) and then release a "Winged Warrior" kit on top of that.

However, the Parasite doesn't look very much like a Warrior. I think the most faithful-to-the-artwork conversion you could currently achieve would be slapping together a Gargoyle, a Ravener, and... a Plague Drone of Nurgle. If Shrikes are reimagined in a form more reminiscent of the Parasite's artwork, then a separate kit would make a lot of sense.

My money is still on wings in the Warrior kit. Sprue space be damned! It just makes so much sense to cover four options with one kit (Warriors, Shrikes, Prime and Parasite [aka a Shrike with Prime bits]). I wouldn't be surprised if the Parasite and/or Shrikes are simply removed, though.

**Veteran Sergeant**

-Loki- wrote:
Kroothawk wrote:
Panic wrote:
I do have issue with a company that stated on their own homepage how much they loved GW and warhammer 40,000...
yet went to court and hurt the HHHobby more than any other outside influence since... ever.

So now Chapterhouse dragged GW to court in your version of the world ?

He said went to court, not took to court, and nothing about them initiating it. A little reading comprehension before your next troll attempt?

I wouldn't have issue with 3rd party if their stuff they made for Tyranids was actually good. Like Paulsons boneswords, or the magnificent stuff from Hydracast. Chapterhouses stuff is pretty dire, though.

Can you two sweethearts give it a rest before this gets locked again?

**MajorWesJanson**

Maybe a single set of wings in the kit, as an option for a prime or to make Parasite? Of buy multiple kits to make a shrike unit?

**Ferrum_Sanguinis**

I really think the current warrior kit i great as it is, and hope that the new warrior kit (if there is one of course) is simply the old kit with a new sprue containing wings, lashwhips and boneswords.

**brassangel**

Altruizine wrote:
brassangel wrote:

Endobai didn't say there were no wings, but did say:

Still don't expect all your wishes to come true. Remember it is no more than three infantry sprues in the box.

I'm going to guess we get Warriors that can do a lot, including make a Prime, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Shrikes are a separate kit with bits for a Parasite (perhaps changed to a generic, non-special Tyranid).

That seems like a fairly flagrant waste of a kit, unless one of the variables involved is about to undergo a significant redesign.

Currently, Shrikes are just Warriors with wings. So it makes little sense to release a new Warrior kit (especially one that has about a 90% overlap with the old Warrior kit, and mainly seems to be about adding options and tweaking minor differences in terms of pose and WYSIWYGness) and then release a "Winged Warrior" kit on top of that.

However, the Parasite doesn't look very much like a Warrior. I think the most faithful-to-the-artwork conversion you could currently achieve would be slapping together a Gargoyle, a Ravener, and... a Plague Drone of Nurgle. If Shrikes are reimagined in a form more reminiscent of the Parasite's artwork, then a separate kit would make a lot of sense.

My money is still on wings in the Warrior kit. Sprue space be damned! It just makes so much sense to cover four options with one kit (Warriors, Shrikes, Prime and Parasite [aka a Shrike with Prime bits]). I wouldn't be surprised if the Parasite and/or Shrikes are simply removed, though.

There's been mention of not only their traditional weapons load outs, but also something "nice and new", according to the rumors. If that's true, 3 Warrior bodies, 3 Warrior heads (likely more), 3 Warrior tails and thorax pieces, 3 sets of legs, 3 sets of Boneswords, 3 Lash Whips, 3 Devourers, 3 Deathspitters, a Barbed Strangler, a Venom Cannon, 3 sets of Scything Talons, 3 sets of Rending Claws, 3 sets of each biomorph, and the parts to make a Prime, as well as some new biomorphs and/or weapons. Oh, all on 3 sprues. That's already going to be a tight fit.

I can almost guarantee there won't be wings in there. To be honest, I would be fine with giving up wings if it meant having all of the bits to make every combination of Warrior in the codex. I'm tired of having to pull parts from other kits to make my Tyranid broods.

You make an interesting point about removing the Shrikes and Parasite all together. It's strange to see GW potentially pulling units out of the book entirely. I can't remember a time when they did that, but if there's a codex that needed to be completely overhauled, it was this one. Poor design, poor force organization, poor points costs, poor rules, poor synergy...

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:I really think the current warrior kit i great as it is, and hope that the new warrior kit (if there is one of course) is simply the old kit with a new sprue containing wings, lashwhips and boneswords.

They won't "re-cut" the old kit. In fact, GW pretty much never does that. They sculpt and cast new each time, even if there's little change. The kit will likely be brand new, though the resemblance will be close. Think of the new Tactical Squad box.

**silverstu**

If you think about what they added to the tyrant kit to turn him into a flyer- not just wings but a whole new lower torso and legs -to do the shrikes right you's have to add a lot to the kit- which would push the price through the roof. A separate kit allows them to differentiate shrikes from warriors even more- like the way gargoyles are different from gaunts. Putting the two together would compromise both options.

**Avian**

Clang wrote:
A thought on the new transport bug and the 'demise' of mycetic spores - perhaps the transport bug deploys like the old spore (or a drop pod), but then can move like an open-topped transport, thus making the spore irrelevant both tactically and model-wise?

I think it's worth repeating that there's no mention from Endobai about any sort of transport bug. That's speculation on the part of other people and/or stemming from less reliable people like Vela.

**Therion**

Avian wrote:
Clang wrote:
A thought on the new transport bug and the 'demise' of mycetic spores - perhaps the transport bug deploys like the old spore (or a drop pod), but then can move like an open-topped transport, thus making the spore irrelevant both tactically and model-wise?

I think it's worth repeating that there's no mention from Endobai about any sort of transport bug. That's speculation on the part of other people and/or stemming from less reliable people like Vela.

I think it's also worth repeating that rumours about one of the two new mega bug variants having a transport capacity have been around for a couple months now. These rumourmongers (even when accurate and/or trying to be truthful) always seem to pick and choose the tidbits they reveal completely randomly, sometimes glossing over army changing new rules and instead telling us about something completely insignificant and uninteresting.

As far as the Tyranid Warrior kit is concerned, there's no way that box will have 3 of every weapon option, not to mention twin-linked weapon options (if possible). I'm 100% sure the days of trading and scrounging for venom cannons/barbed stranglers/devourers/etc will continue in order to make whatever the new optimal unit ends up being.

**Avian**

Therion wrote:
Avian wrote:
Clang wrote:
A thought on the new transport bug and the 'demise' of mycetic spores - perhaps the transport bug deploys like the old spore (or a drop pod), but then can move like an open-topped transport, thus making the spore irrelevant both tactically and model-wise?

I think it's worth repeating that there's no mention from Endobai about any sort of transport bug. That's speculation on the part of other people and/or stemming from less reliable people like Vela.

I think it's also worth repeating that rumours about one of the two new mega bug variants having a transport capacity have been around for a couple months now.

That probably just means they're made up. Rumours from dubious sources far in advance isn't an indication of anything.

**Zweischneid**

H.B.M.C. wrote:

I have to agree here. The loss of the Mycetic Spore won't be driven by some sort of need to swipe at the 3rd party market (as much as some people might want it to be). Instead it'll simply be down to economics.

If it's only the spore, that little fairly tale might hold.

But it isn't. It's everything without a model (Doom of Malantai, etc.).

Time to wake up and thank Chapterhouse Studios.

**pizzaguardian**

Zweis never ceases to amaze me.

And the new bugs sound fun, makin warrior cheaper would be better since thry can still get instagibbed by str 8 but be cheap enough to not damage the unit too badly.

**Kroothawk**

Update time:

Endobai over at Warseer wrote:All in one go, but do not expect the yesterday level of rumour throwing. I still need time to work you know.

On the other hand I didn't know there is an endobai rumour tracker on Dakkadakka - with one mistake actually.
Do I win a T-shirt if it is all accurate?

You are my hero right now. Can you give any more indication on the psychic powers? You said that most have powers assigned to them (specifically the brood lord).

A number of them, some, but I doubt it is most. Tyrants for example have to roll.

I think you said the tervigon does not, but must roll on the tyranid psychic powers chart. What about some other units? Again, it should say in the book which psychic powers tyranids have access too. If we lose access to biomancy and don't gain excellent powers, that could cause a couple of problems. Granted, we adapt as we go, so it isn't a big concern, just some tweaking here and there.

I know too little about the whole set of powers. Dominion seems to be the Primaris.

I am also curious as to you feelings about the changes in general. Does this book allow for more builds? As in you can run a lot of monstrous creatures or a giant swarm? The horms thing is intriguing. When you say demonettes, do you mean the mounted ones? I am disappointed that Warriors and Genestealers haven't really changed (at least in what you have said). I am also curious if tyranids gained a battle focus like eldar? There was a rumor they could move, run, and assault. Is this at all true?

Curiously I still cannot grasp it fully. First time it happens since I started getting info from this source (and never posted most of it because it is mainly for my use). Frankly I am concerned about the little guys, but have still too little information to make definite statements.

About Horms see below - a multi-quote in all its glory.

Lastly, you mentioned that biomorphs are back in and that warriors have a lot of access to them. Are Hive Tyrants more customizable as well? Is the codex in general more customizable?

Biomorphs are accessible by many creatures. Hive Tyrant is definetely on the top of the list so...

We have a general idea of what the harpy does, but perhaps you can talk about the other flyer a bit. What kind of roll on the battlefield do you see it taking?

It does have very, very interesting weapon. Cannot say which untill images start showing.
I believe that when it comes to the background description of it this is the first time ever the Tyranids get access to this kind of weapon class.
I know, cryptic and some people will say that the guy knows nothing so talks nonsense to cover the fact, but in this case just one word I would have to use would say almost everything.
Honestly I cannot find a way to describe it without making it all too obvious.

Sorry if I am asking too many questions, I am sure you can't answer them all either.

No problem. I doubt I helped much anyway.

Tyranids need some form of skyfire though. Probably will be a biomorph of some kind, like a repurposed enhanced senses.

I am not sure if they will get ground based Anti-air.
I definetely said that the new Hive Guard weapon doesn't sound as one - description suggests something much different - but Hive Guards still might get access to Skyfire for the primary weapon we all know and love/hate.

So I cannot exclude skyfire altogether, not yet, but the new weapon doesn't sound like one.

@Endobai- thanks so much for sharing! So much info! Made my day!
So no Shrikes in the release I take it?

The range of wargear, the pricing of the box, the space on the sprues and wealth of options available suggests there is nothing left for such large pieces like wings.
An educated guess, the process of deduction + absolutely no confirmation there are wings = no Shrikes.

Oh and I presume there is a psychic card deck for Nids?

Seven cards.

@Endobai Cheers for the earlier response mate, and for all the new stuff you've confirmed!
I am to assume that your comment about Hormagaunts means they are Beasts and 4-5 points per model now? I know you can't confirm but that appears to be what you are indicating. That's very nice indeed if so!

I cannot say how many points - against Warseer policy isn't it? - definetely not beasts. Slaanesh fast, but not that fast.
Plus fleet and move through cover. The second seems an army-wide rule (not sure about winged Tyraninds).

I have a question that I think everyone wants to know; have Carnifexes been changed for the better? I'm also curious about Trygons/Mawlos/Tyrannofexes/Tervigons/etc but I think the Carnifex is the one everyone wants to know about after what happened in the previous codex. Cheers again for any info!

Got a re-pack. Nothing I can say about their rules.

I agree, has our "tank" bug gotten better? Or at least do the other rumours where it can buy biomorphs hold true?

Biomorphs are accessible by many, many models and Carnifex definetely is described as one of them.

I hope the flyrant will still be able to equip 2 twin-link brainleech devourer, but I have the feeling it will be hit by the nerf bat.

The weapon stays. Not sure if it is as good as it was.

Endobai over at Warseer wrote:
The Doom of Malan' tai is dead and gone, as are any units without a model. Dual kits listed as Harpy + something, psychic power details and more. A lot of this is coming out quickly, and this is all rather reliable.

Please remember that these are rumors. This is all rather reliable bits of information. Discuss away.

via 4chan.
Pictures from WD will be tommorow.

Psychic Powers table: Dominion (Primaris), Psychic Scream, Warp Blast, Catalyst, Paroxysm, the Horror, Onslaught

Warriors + Prime bits (not a word about wings in a box)
Harpy + Something
Something Hungry + Something Shooty
Hive Guard + Other Known Guard

via daboarder on Bols in response to above.
ok guess I can give more info now this has dropped.

Those powers haven't changed........

yup how ****ty is that, can you imagin rolling the horror? bleah!

and zoans no longer have a base shooting power

oh and no, things without models are NOT in this codex (dont know about shrikes given the FW kit) but special character that was popular with 3rd party sculptors is dead and gone.....

Cue the cries of "the DoM was cheese anyway".....ya know, despite shriek being a primaris power for telepathy.

I can confirm that.
Both big, ground beasts are from the Epic 40k, also the shooting one.
Warrior box is half-dual as I said without confirming it is this particular one.

Any truth the psychic mechanism BOLS just tossed out?

I have no information saying it will be different than with other armies.
Might be true, but I am only revealing what I know for sure.

Also I'd like to refrain in the future from commenting everything what comes from BOLS about Tyranids in recent days.
Takes too much time.

Well, nids made the least sense to have special characters. Old One Eye and Swarmlord are probably still around though.

Both are still here. Swarmlord is mastery level three.

I think no one asked yet about these monsters:

-Does the biovore stays the same? Does he has access to various ammunition?
-Does the pyrovore is somehow usefull now? Better AP for the flamer or torrent rule? Or completely reworked?
-Any changes to the Mawloc?
-Does the gargoyles keep Blind Venom?
-Is the tyrranofex cheaper or does he has better weapons options?
-Does the venomthrope now has Stealth or shrouded?

Blind Venom stays. Venomthrope definetely confers cover saves, but don't know if it is a cover save which can be combined with stealth/shrouded or confering stealth/shrouded to models close to it.

Do not know about the rest. Not enough at least.

not sure whether to wait for the codex to drop before painting my horms?

They look nice, but I don't have the whole picture yet.

When in January is it set for release?

Still more than a full month from today.

Seems pretre has to correct his current Endobai tracking.
Not sure what Endobai refers to when he says "I can confirm that". Taking the Doom and Spore from the Codex would be a bad hit and an indication that GW wants to eradicate every idea Cruddace made for the Tyranids and get back to 3rd edition. Hope this is not the way GW wants to keep its promise:"Every unit in the Codex will get a model" by killing all units in the next Codex that didn't.

-Loki- wrote:
He said went to court, not took to court, and nothing about them initiating it. A little reading comprehension before your next troll attempt?

Thanks for your insult, but the only alternative for Chapterhouse would have been to roll over and commit suicide because of obviously unfounded claims.

**reds8n**

We will have no more mention of the chapterhouse case in this thread.

It's not relevant to his thread.

**Souleater**

I would prefer to go back to 2nd Edition with Nids, but still.

While I look forward to a new codex I find myself feeling some trepidation. GW seem to have see-sawed in what they wanted Nids to do on the table top for the past three codexes. At this stage I just can't work out what they are going to do other than (hopefully) make them fit better into Sixth Edition.

**Bloodwin**

There's a photo in the back of the Stronghold book that also has Tyranid warriors with the mutations on the elbows.

**Eldercaveman**

Bloodwin wrote:
There's a photo in the back of the Stronghold book that also has Tyranid warriors with the mutations on the elbows.

Post.....

Automatically Appended Next Post:

pictures from WD will be tomorrow

Is this post from today, meaning tomorrow. Or yesterday meaning today?

**xttz**

Bloodwin wrote:There's a photo in the back of the Stronghold book that also has Tyranid warriors with the mutations on the elbows.

Eldercaveman wrote:
Bloodwin wrote:
There's a photo in the back of the Stronghold book that also has Tyranid warriors with the mutations on the elbows.

Post.....

To me they look more like the old ones with the finecast weapons.

**rigeld2**

Those are normal toxin sacs. Nothing new there.

Still living in the salt mines, but losing Doom and Pods would... hurt. While they're sort of a massive crutch they're also really important.

**xttz**

brassangel wrote:

There's been mention of not only their traditional weapons load outs, but also something "nice and new", according to the rumors. If that's true, 3 Warrior bodies, 3 Warrior heads (likely more), 3 Warrior tails and thorax pieces, 3 sets of legs, 3 sets of Boneswords, 3 Lash Whips, 3 Devourers, 3 Deathspitters, a Barbed Strangler, a Venom Cannon, 3 sets of Scything Talons, 3 sets of Rending Claws, 3 sets of each biomorph, and the parts to make a Prime, as well as some new biomorphs and/or weapons. Oh, all on 3 sprues. That's already going to be a tight fit.

I can almost guarantee there won't be wings in there. To be honest, I would be fine with giving up wings if it meant having all of the bits to make every combination of Warrior in the codex. I'm tired of having to pull parts from other kits to make my Tyranid broods.

Endobai mentioned the Carnifex getting a re-boxing:

Endobai wrote:Got a re-pack. Nothing I can say about their rules.

This implies to me that they're going to phase out / replace the old MC weapons sprue. The new Warriors look a fair bit beefier, and could well be compatible with a new sprue. This could plausibly include the Venom Cannon, Barbed Strangler, and various biomorphs / new weapons.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

rigeld2 wrote:
Those are normal toxin sacs. Nothing new there.

Still living in the salt mines, but losing Doom and Pods would... hurt. While they're sort of a massive crutch they're also really important.

So long as we can still deep strike stuff on the assumption the pod disintegrates on impact, I'll be happy. As for the Doom, it was really just a gimmicky unit whose popularity stems from it being really undercosted in a codex where most things were overcosted. I really don't mind playing with some of my other bugs for a change and just having a fancy Zoanthrope model.

**pretre**

Kroothawk wrote:
Seems pretre has to correct his current Endobai tracking.

He was corrected yesterday. We had him with too many Partially True / Vagues. Here's his updated record. Putting him ahead of Vela for reliability more definitively.

Endobai - Total rumors: (6 TRUE) / (0 FALSE) / (2 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)

edit: Updated his track.

**Eldercaveman**

pretre wrote:
Kroothawk wrote:
Seems pretre has to correct his current Endobai tracking.

He was corrected yesterday. We had him with too many Partially True / Vagues. Here's his updated record. Putting him ahead of Vela for reliability more definitively.

Endobai - Total rumors: (5 TRUE) / (1 FALSE) / (2 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)

I'll be interested to see the before and after of all the major participants in the Nid rumour monging.

**pretre**

Eldercaveman wrote:
pretre wrote:
Kroothawk wrote:
Seems pretre has to correct his current Endobai tracking.

He was corrected yesterday. We had him with too many Partially True / Vagues. Here's his updated record. Putting him ahead of Vela for reliability more definitively.

Endobai - Total rumors: (6 TRUE) / (0 FALSE) / (2 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)

I'll be interested to see the before and after of all the major participants in the Nid rumour monging.

It is going to be a blood bath. You can't spew the amount of stuff that some of these guys have without being wrong on most of it.

edit: Updated Endobai's track in the quote.

**Eldercaveman**

pretre wrote:
Eldercaveman wrote:
pretre wrote:
Kroothawk wrote:
Seems pretre has to correct his current Endobai tracking.

He was corrected yesterday. We had him with too many Partially True / Vagues. Here's his updated record. Putting him ahead of Vela for reliability more definitively.

Endobai - Total rumors: (6 TRUE) / (0 FALSE) / (2 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)

I'll be interested to see the before and after of all the major participants in the Nid rumour monging.

It is going to be a blood bath. You can't spew the amount of stuff that some of these guys have without being wrong on most of it.

edit: Updated Endobai's track in the quote.

We should keep a record so we can actually compare it, after you've updated the lists post-release. Or do you keep a record of that anyway?

**pretre**

Eldercaveman wrote:
We should keep a record so we can actually compare it, after you've updated the lists post-release. Or do you keep a record of that anyway?

The rumor tracker is listed in my sig. Yeah, we keep a record of all rumors now.

**Eldercaveman**

pretre wrote:
Eldercaveman wrote:
We should keep a record so we can actually compare it, after you've updated the lists post-release. Or do you keep a record of that anyway?

The rumor tracker is listed in my sig. Yeah, we keep a record of all rumors now.

I know you track all rumours, but do you keep copies of people's records prior to proving/disproving them? Or will it be a case of just copy pasting them, before you update, and then comparing that way?

**pretre**

Eldercaveman wrote:
pretre wrote:
Eldercaveman wrote:
We should keep a record so we can actually compare it, after you've updated the lists post-release. Or do you keep a record of that anyway?

The rumor tracker is listed in my sig. Yeah, we keep a record of all rumors now.

I know you track all rumours, but do you keep copies of people's records prior to proving/disproving them? Or will it be a case of just copy pasting them, before you update, and then comparing that way?

Ohh. No, we don't track their records over time, just their current record. I have a pretty good feel for people's records changing though. For instance, Stickmonkey went from fairly reliable to fairly unreliable a while back.

**Eldercaveman**

pretre wrote:
Eldercaveman wrote:
pretre wrote:
Eldercaveman wrote:
We should keep a record so we can actually compare it, after you've updated the lists post-release. Or do you keep a record of that anyway?

The rumor tracker is listed in my sig. Yeah, we keep a record of all rumors now.

I know you track all rumours, but do you keep copies of people's records prior to proving/disproving them? Or will it be a case of just copy pasting them, before you update, and then comparing that way?

Ohh. No, we don't track their records over time, just their current record. I have a pretty good feel for people's records changing though. For instance, Stickmonkey went from fairly reliable to fairly unreliable a while back.

When do you tend to confirm the rumours, at codex release?

**dakkajet**

I can't wait to see the pictures! If nids get a good dex I might strongly think about getting them.

**Kroothawk**

xttz wrote:
Endobai mentioned the Carnifex getting a re-boxing:

Endobai wrote:Got a re-pack. Nothing I can say about their rules.

This implies to me that they're going to phase out / replace the old MC weapons sprue.

This implies to me a price increase