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Evening all.

Given the recent price rise from GW, and the usual assorted complaints followed by purchases, it struck me that we perhaps ought to collaborate on creating a guide to gaming on a Budget.

From tips on how to not get ripped off on Ebay, to which Online Retailers offer the best value for purchases, it cannot hurt to have a single definitive thread/article on the subject no?

Now first up, I give it precisely 30 minutes before HBMC (I think thats the right way round) mentions a certain website so I might as well get in there now.

But beyond the models, what about boards and books? From Zuzzi Battlemats to home made boards, terrain etc, what is the most cost and effort effective way to get yourself home gaming ready?

Over time, I'm more than willing to try the various methods and purchase options so that there will be a single voice of review to add to the original reccomendations etc.

What do you reckon Dakka?

The most effective way to wargame on a budget is choose an army and make sure you stick to it (yes Flashman, I'm looking at you with your wardrobe so full of unpainted boxed sets, you could open your own FLGS).

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Now first up, I give it precisely 30 minutes before HBMC (I think thats the right way round) mentions a certain website so I might as well get in there now.

Fixed that for you.

But really, what about us US gamers?

When buying new, Grab Battleforces, spearheads, Apocolypse formations, etc. These tend to have substantial saveings over buying at normal prices. Even if you don't want/need everything it contains, you can always sell the spare stuff, or use it for conversion work.

Bargain shop. The Petcetra down the road is haveing a huge sale (50+% off), so I took the opportunity to load up on aquarium plants and balast. I use these in terrain projects.

Remember, one mans trash is another mans treasure. Quite often, less creative people will throw away stuff that is great for scratchbuilding.

Dammit Jin!

I tried to do the URL thing. I guess my Laptop still hates me.

But ta though!

Shouldn't that be Dammit Jin, I'm a Mad Doc not a web programmer!

As far as a cheap board goes, I'm a fan of the 2'x4' MDF boards. You get 2 of them for a small game and 3 for a standard one. Just lay some nubbly non-skid mat on a table to keep them from shifting and put them out. After the game they stack neatly for storage under the bed, behind the couch or behind a door. You can paint them any color you want or can lay a cloth over it all.

Edit: removed quote of immediately preceding post

Improvising and using items from garage sales has helped boost my FLGS terrain bank. We have no fewer than 3 play castles in stock that, with a little bit of paint and bits, have turned into great bunkers. Who needs to spend $500 on the Imperial Gate from FW when you can spend $10 and get something that may not be as pretty, but works just as great.

One of them even has sound effects built in. Kinda fun to push the button and hear the sword clashing sounds for CC

EDIT: To build off this so I dont go post crazy.

EBAY: Many times, if my FLGS is not having a 15-20% off sale, Ill go to "Buy-It-Now" sellers on ebay who offer free shipping. Very often if there is an item I cant find on the war store site, I can find it in an ebay store. Again I cant stress enough the importance of the free shipping, as I almost smacked a friend who was all excited that he bought a box of fire warriors for $10 off, but spent $8 on shipping. The gentleman I go to almost exclusively now always gives free shipping on all item, probably because he ships the item without the boxes. Never once have I had something missing or broken, and saved 20% every time. This should be done with high rep sellers though.

My not-so local comic store is having a 20% discount and the FLGS next to it has been selling GW stuff for the Pound Sterling price instead of Euro's. It's a whole lot faster to just take a train to Utrecht than to order from Maelstrom.

Cool cool.

Keep it going gentlemen (and ladies should any add their tuppence. No. Not that tuppence. Save that tuppence for mummy/daddy time at night K?).

Will compile the suggestions and hints into a more coherent form after a week or so. If anyone has specific suggestions, you might well get a PM from me for a how-to to add to the article.

Also, are there any terrain bodgers out there who would be will to have a Buildboyz Challenge, whereby bits and pieces found around the house are listed, and you suggest a method for terrainificating them? (and remember. Brit here, so I can indeed invent words as I go along)

2x4 mdf boards.

Hills/terrain (DIY style) made from sheet foam (the white stuff will do if protected properly.

Buy on sale/from internet vendors with discounts.
Buy second/third hand (in most cases, this+paint stripper will run you less than 50%).

Buy Trees/flock/scatters from local model railway dealer - in bulk. I get trees in a bag of 100 for $50 AUD (from 5-14 cm tall), static grass 100g bags for $8, flock for less. By comparison, GWs grass (identical, btw) sells for $15 for (not less than)25g (but is gross, not nett.)

Yard sales / car boot sales can turn up some bargains -- I have a friend who always goes to these & does things like spot an unopened box of GW figures & say "How much for the toys?". The answer is usually £1 or so -- a lot less than if he'd said, "How much for the highly collectable wargames figures?"

You can get some great deals from bits sellers, sometimes, BUT you should always try to research (asking here will often work) where you'd get said bits originally -- it may work out cheaper or better value just to pick up the set, or trade with a friend who has the set.

Consider conversions specifically to save money -- for example, if you have some spare twin-linked Heavy Bolters from the Ravenwing upgrade sprues from your Ravenwing Battleforce, use them to convert an old cheap eBay lascannon predator into a dakka pred, or to convert an old cheap eBay Rhino into a Razorback. Talking of "old cheap" -- older edition vehicles tend to cost *way* less than the current releases on eBay (the notable exception being older metal landspeeders).

I cannot stress the importance of buying cheap job lots or badly painted minatures on ebay, 90% of the time they are built fine but the painter isn't how shall we put it "skilled" as such many people tend to overlook the items, this allows you to grab a load of minatures very cheaply a bath of Fairy Power Spray (or simple green or whatever) and viola you have perfectly new minatures ready to be painted, sometimes for something ridiculous as 90% off RRP, of course you do have to be careful with what your buying, but its a great way to get cheapo models.

Also doing searches on ebay for things like "war hammer" or "warhammers" often turns up alot of models that would otherwise not get seen because they havent been listed properly.

Trawl feebay for horribly painted metal minis that will never command a good price, but will be good as new after a little acetone bath

EDIT: oops, beat me to it!

The first rule of this guide should be:

"Only a fool pays full price when they don't have to." Then attribute that quote to Sun Tzu or Albert Einstein or Peewee Herman or someone like that.

And the rules for budget gaming are easy:

Shop around.
Find the best prices.
Always consider shipping costs.
And then order from Maelstrom.

Set a number for the amount of money you are willing to spend and stick to it no matter
what you do. If you buy something for cheap, it doesn't increase your savings to spend
more than your number allows by buying much much more (it really doesn't).

If you must, then set up a debit account specifically for gaming and only spend from
that debit account and only put in what you're willing to spend. When you set up the
account, go on a buying hiatus for a month or two while you start with a few monthly
deposits to give you something to start with.

Impulse buys count against the budget, so be wary.

First dont give into gamer ADD. Stick with an army for the long haul. I've been playing sisters of battle since 2nd edition through all its incarnations. Its gotten to be pretty big and painted by now.

Second? Once you decide on an army, take all those spare projects you have lying around to Bartertown and turn it stuff you can use. I turned a bunch of old projects into chaos marine items. Sveral unbuild CSM, dreads, raptors, defiler, terminators....

Do not buy from GW

Buy from a reputable online retailer that will give you 15%-20% off.

Look for sales with online retailers. The Warstore has a Black Friday sale every year.

If you are playing Orks or Marines buy Assault on Black Reach box sets from an online retailer. Also if you are looking for Tryanids try to find the OOP The Battle for Macragge box sets. If you want to play fantasy Orcs and Goblins or Dwarves buy The Battle for Skull Pass box sets.

Buy Battleforce/Battalion Box Sets* from an online retailer.

Buy Armageddon Box Sets* from an online retailer

*Note: Make sure that you add up the individual components to make sure that you are getting a reasonable savings. These days they are selling some for retail.

Check Bartertown.com for cheap minis, and trades.

Events like Adepticon and local convention often have a flea market where you can buy minis cheap. You can gets some good deals there especially at the end of the day when people do not want to carry items back to their car.

Some stores have days when people bring in their minis and sell them. The GW stores have the bizarre bazaar twice a year/


Buy from E-Bay

Buy poorly painted minis from E-bay. The worse they look, the less they will cost. The pricing goes like this: Master painted minis, pro-painted minis, new-in-box minis, unpainted minis, primed minis, ok painted minis, and then poorly painted minis. You will have to strip them and put a little bit of extra work in, but they will save you a lot of money.

Pay with PayPal. I have gotten back my money a couple times for items that I did not receive.

Remember that you only have only 6 weeks to file a complaint to get your money back. I ordered a $200 commission from this guy, http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=320386697132 and he strung me along saying that it was coming and that I should be patient and by the time I disputed it through PayPal, I was out my money




Did I mention that you never buy from GW?

Find other ways of getting modeling supplies. Wal-Mart and other retailers have a better primer (Krylon) and $2 compared to GWs $15.

You can also get aquarium plants just about anywhere instead of paying $40 for GWs.

They also have regular white glue that you can pick up at Staples/Office Depot for $.99, and most hobbies stores have a better and cheaper plastic glue.

Shop around at arts stored for paint brushes (it is hard to fined quality size 000, 00 and 0 brushes though), but you can find them cheaper then what GW sells them for.

Galeforce 9 had a good set of tools and other gaming accessories that are made a lot better than GWs. Remember the markers that GW made for Fantasy? How crappy were those?

Most hobby supplies can be found at general hobby stores for less.

H.B.M.C. wrote:The first rule of this guide should be:

"Only a fool pays full price when they don't have to." Then attribute that quote to Sun Tzu or Albert Einstein or Peewee Herman or someone like that.

And the rules for budget gaming are easy:

Shop around.
Find the best prices.
Always consider shipping costs.
And then order from Maelstrom.

Seriously does HMBC own stakes in that company or something?! Does his brother in law own it? DO THEY HAVE HIS FAMILY HELD HOSTAGE AND WILL KILL THEM IF HE DOESNT MENTION SAID WEBSITE IN EVERY POST HE MAKES?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?


I built my own table from plywood and used saw horses for the legs. cost me about..... $40 for the whole thing, and it works perfectly. I found looking around for paint alternatives saves me a TON of money. I now use Americana paints from hobby lobby instead of GW. Every color except boltgun metal, Ive replaced. Im sure I COULD find a good alternative, but dammit I love boltgun metal lol

I have no stake in the company. They are on the opposite side of the planet to me. I just respect quality, customer service, and good deals. Maelstrom provides all three.

Play small games is my tip.

The smaller games means the faster you get to play.

When buying off eBay, always, ALWAYS check the seller's feedback. Check if they've gotten any negative feedback in the last few months, and take note of it. If things don't seem too good, then it's advisable to stay away. A lot of people sell fakes or try and scam you, so watch out.

The Warstore has been mentioned, and are highly recommended. 20% off, and excellent service. Neil is a swell guy.

My FLGS gives me a 20% discount since I organize the GW gaming group. Pretty sure I keep them in business since I buy all my stuff from them too.

Havent mentioned it, but I shop www.chaosorc.com and have zero problems. You can find new and used dependingon whats in stock....

Dont forget , Dakka have a swap shop as well!

For Imperial Guard players; you can make two tanks out of the Chimera box with the help of bitz and plasticard. Since the Chimera hull is separate from the treads; glue some plasticard to the side of the hull and attach 4-8 toy wheels and you've got yourself a wheeled Chimera.

Now with the two tread sides and some more plasticard you can easily convert an artillery piece or some other tank.

LunaHound wrote:Dont forget , Dakka have a swap shop as well!

the swap shop can be awesome.
its helped me build most of my dwarf army in progress, and substantially expand a warmachine army\

KingCracker wrote:
I built my own table from plywood and used saw horses for the legs. cost me about..... $40 for the whole thing, and it works perfectly. I found looking around for paint alternatives saves me a TON of money. I now use Americana paints from hobby lobby instead of GW. Every color except boltgun metal, Ive replaced. Im sure I COULD find a good alternative, but dammit I love boltgun metal lol

Folk Art Gunmetal Silver is identical to boltgun metal.

It blows me away that people actually keep overpaying for GW hobby supplies (paints, xactos, etc). GW paints are way overpriced. You can get a better range of colors at your local Wal-Mart, hobby store or crafts store for a small fraction of the price. Everything from their spray paint to their super glue are some of the worst products on the market and they're by far the most expensive. Green stuff is the only stuff that I don't mind buying because it's hard to find any other sculpting epoxy like it.

Get a chunk of plylwood or one of these cheap, plain, hollow 4x8 doors from Home Depot and set it on some milk crates, a folding table or saw horses for a fast gaming table. You could even build some legs and make a proper table out of it. Terrain is easy to make out of trash. I always save styrofoam packaging, cereal boxes and corrugated cardboard. Once you get the hang of it you can knock out a full table's worth of terrain in a day without breaking a sweat. When my terrain collection starts to get out of control I just toss some of it up on ebay. If you're good at modeling you can also scratch build vehicles out of junk that look pretty good. A styrofoam cutter helps a lot.

Keep cash in your pocket when you go to gaming night. Every once in a while someone will come in wanting to sell their army "right now". I always seem to be the only guy with cash in my pocket so I always get amazing deals. Also, watch craigslist and ebay. You can get some killer deals from people who are just looking to clean out their closet for a fraction of the cost. Sometimes you even end up with some well painted figs. This is much more likely if you're buying from craigslist, though. I've bought some figs from ebay that turned out to be well painted but the absolutely horrible pics didn't do the models any justice. Obviously, this is a roll of the dice but if you bought it cheap, anyway, then a few days in the stripper doesn't matter. Buy in big lots and resell what you don't need. A lot of times I'll buy a big lot of figs, take what I need and throw the rest back up on ebay. Individual units sell a lot better than full armies unless the army is well thought out and well painted. Most of the time I end up making back more than I spent on the lot in the first place. Don't be afraid to use OOP models. They tend to be really cheap. Pay attention to shipping costs. If you really want to get into the buying and selling game on ebay then make sure that you have a decent camera and that you know how to take decent pictures. You have got to be able to take decent pics if you ever hope to sell a paintjob. Obviously, if you're playing the ebay game then you'll have a paypal account. Once you get rolling you can just get a paypal debit card and use that account to buy all of your miniatures.

Specific eBay tips regarding when to bid:

New Scientist magazine reported a while back on a study on online auction tactics, which confirmed what most gamers have already probably sussed out, as follows.

There is one best time to bid, and that's approximately 10 seconds before the auction ends. Place your bid, for the maximum amount you're willing to pay (because other people will also be bidding in those last few seconds), 10 seconds before the end. Don't bid before that...

... unless, optionally, you want to "stake your claim" on an item which, with your eBay-fu, you have sussed out is unlikely to attract much interest. You know those figures that are already a bit overpriced (but that you happen to want), or the "start at 99p / 99c" figures that you don't think will go for any more than that? It's worth *considering* placing one bid on these, for the opening amount, if there are no bids on it already. Some people will be put off bidding at all if they know there may be a bidding war, and by "staking your claim" in this way, you put those people off, and so may avoid a bidding war at all. That said -- this tactic is optional, and of (at best) dubious merit.

For practical reasons, you may not always be able to swoop in 10 sec before the end of the auction (you may know you're not going to be anywhere near a PC, or the auction may end in the middle of the night). This isn't optimal, but in my opinion, your best bet here is to just bid the most you are willing to pay, as late as you can in the auction. That way, you avoid ever feeling "crap -- I would have paid 20p / 20c more, if only I'd been watching that at the time". Occasionally you feel "Whew -- at least I didn't pay what *that* ended up going for."

H.B.M.C. wrote:I have no stake in the company. They are on the opposite side of the planet to me. I just respect quality, customer service, and good deals. Maelstrom provides all three.

And I like to run around naked all day listening to my flaccid member slap against my thighs because HAHAHA, dangling parts! But you don't hear me say that every odd dozenth post.

Well whenever there's a thread about running around naked, I assume you would. Just the same as when someone talks about gaming on a budget, or discount stores, or good online retailers, I mention Malestrom.

But the nerve of me - posting in context and on topic! How dare I!!!!

Keeee-rist, someone needs a dose of rejuvenat.